Saving Pack through D, Pack_19 part V

[Pack_19]

Hi all! I hope you are doing great! thanks a lot for following up with me. Since I posted here this last doubt I have always tried to remain polite when we exchange the kids. Hello, a short smile and goodbye. But always focused on the kids and thinking that I am doing this for them. At the end of the day, no matter how much she has hurt me, she will always be their mom.

I am back on full GAL mode now that I can exercise again. Physically I am back to crossfit and aiming at my past PRs, I can run longer distances and have signed up for a new half marathon in Valencia. Intellectually I am trying to grow as a leader and even if I only have a team of 4, I am trying to be a good leader technically and in the personal side of our relationship. Emotionally, I continue to practice active listening and monitor that I do not chase any woman and just build a life as a man on principles focused on my children. Spiritually I have developed this mental metaphor that I was hanging from a cliff and tied to a rope that was anchored on my past life (Munich, our family routine, my W, my job in a cool office at the city center). I was scared to death to cut the rope, but now I have a parachute (my changes, my books, this forum, my new goals) so I imagine myself cutting the rope and free falling down the cliff. I dont know what lies at the bottom of the cliff, but I am safe thanks to my parachute, I am enjoying the feeling of free falling (letting go) and the speed at which I am going down prevents me from looking back.

I recently read NMMNG again and I focused on the sections about regaining your power, masculinity and sexuality. I am now reading again "The multiorgasmic man" (back to the sexual kung fu) and will go back to "What women want when they test men" when done with that one. I am working with a friend on the possibility to start our own business on the basis of Machine Learning (what I do now) and quantum compute and it is a very exciting idea that has a scary side because I always think that the future of my children depends on how well I can do professionally (offering them a good university and so on). I am mainly working now on my confidence, self esteem and appearance. I am a driven man, I have goals, a mission, I know myself, I know my needs and the kind of woman I expect to find some day.

I am lonely, I havent been on a miserable date for months and the accident certainly hasnt helped. Sometimes I think that I am not ready yet and I am wasting the best years of my life waiting for a change on W that will never happen. So I have to stop waiting and get going. W remains the same, a friend I met yesterday told me she keeps posting pictures as if she was an influencer on IG and he was telling me how it feels as if she is empty inside. I stopped him and said, I dont want to hear about this J, I am trying to get over her and our past and focused on the kids. When we exchange the kids I am starting to see the stranger she has become. I tell myself, Pack it has been 3 years, you need to leave this painful limbo and build a new life, you have done your best but it was never under your control. Focus on the very few things you can control.

Our kids are always paying attention - even when we don't realize it. It's a great gift to model authenticity and compassion. Do that and they will be fine - so will you, but especially do it for them. I'm glad my post helped.
xo

Thanks for the message bttrfly, sometimes I can tell S8 is aware of things that are happening and I feel it makes no sense to protect him of what is our reality. I am focused on showing him he is truly important to me and our relationship is at the top of my priorities and I think he is picking up on that. So easy when you stop trying to change for someone that never loved you and instead focus on being the best version of yourself!

Pack. I wouldn’t give up so easy. Don’t sit and pine for her, get on with your life but you guys are very young and no one knows what the future holds. You GAL like nobody I have ever seen and are destined for great things. Chin up tits out!

Hi LH19. When I first read your post this weekend my brain went into "maybe she changes someday and realizes what we had as a family". See how I still need to work on detachment a lot, I took the time to analyze my thoughts and I remembered the day Sandi told me I focused on the part of the post that I wanted to. Thanks a lot for the message. After all the mistakes I have made, remember my attempt of an ultimatum when W was ignoring me? What a mess I have been. I feel like successfully GAL and being the man I want to be carries inertia, the more you do of it, the easier it becomes. I have now understood your post, forgive myself, forgive W, move on, focus on me and embrace whatever life has to bring me in the upcoming years. Thanks LH, I am sure you will have more comments for me after this post.

And I completely supported him for that. But there was one big difference. They didn't have kids. So cutting all ties was a no-brainer and a no problem for him at all.

Your situation is different. I get that you are beyond hurt. I completely understand why you feel no need to even acknowledge her. But as others have said your kids are watching. Their mom is still their mom. No one here is suggesting you be friendly like you are with the bread maker and other strangers. Just that you are polite.

I'd also suggest discussing this with a good IC.

Pack, you have made huge strides in your time here. I know you've had a long, difficult road. But you've put in the work and moved yourself forward. You've got this!

I hear you Steve, no matter how badly I want to pull her away from my life, she is going to be there, for the long term. Thanks a lot for supporting me in the decision that I cannot be friends with W. I remember at the beginning of our in house separation, she would tell me all she wanted is for us to be friends and talk about the kids but that our R was dead. I will be polite, strong and unbreakable. I have two little men that I have to turn into real men who would not repeat the mistakes their father made.

I am amazed at how long it has been and how slowly I have seen reality, what W was doing, how I was reacting, how it was hurting my children and how wrong I was about the idea of saving my marriage with changes in myself. What a drive Steve! I would never go through it again but in the long run it will make the man I always wanted to be and the best father for S8 and S3.

Thank you all, I remain NC, working on myself, accepting my fight is over, focused on my PIES and the new man I am becoming. I will not let you down!

[SteveLW]

Pack, solid post!

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

Thanks for the reply Steve. I hope you are all doing great.

Most significant changes from my last post are that I continue to be cordial with W and I even offered we both attend the end of school party for S8 and S3 when are meant to spend that day with me just for the sake that they can have mom and dad there, for them only. I always smile, say hello and goodbye when we exchange the kids but I am developing a kind of apathy towards these interactions, as if I just wanted them to be over and zero exposition to W in my life. Maybe you can offer some help here, I know she will be there for the long run because of our children. Thank you all!

I have not heard back from W's L regarding the agreement for D after they asked to cancel the legal process and come to an agreement. I have days when I wake up thinking let's just finish this, send her whatever I am obliged to legally and be done with it. Other days I think well I never wanted D and I haven't met anyone, is not like my life is going to change tomorrow, I am as divorced as it gets in all possible senses.

I am completely focused on me and the kids. I workout daily, I am building my visibility and network as a leader in the new company, I still work on active listening and not pursuing anyone and just doing my thing. Focused on my PIES and letting days go by, enjoying S8 and S3 when they are home, going for a run, a ride, or a beer with a good friend when I am alone. I have signed up for a new track day with the car in Jerez and I am truly excited, also signed up for a half marathon in Valencia and just got some new clothes for summer (keeping up the good changes).

However, I am going through some struggles I wanted to share here. I spend many days sitting, almost paralyzed, thinking about all that has happened, if my M will come to be something I just will forget, a painful memory. I question myself and whether my changes are permanent, I go in my head through the list of changes I have implemented, my new goals and all I have learned from my books, as if I had reinforce the motivation to continue. I have always been a very driven person at work, with my goals, so these days hurt me massively because I end up thinking I am still very broken inside, it creates insecurities to present myself to other women when the opportunity comes (as I feel I still carry a lot of baggage) and it hits me hard on my high expectations for myself at work. Some days I still feel this is all I nightmare and I force myself to think, temporary Pack, this will also pass, even if it takes 10 years.

Whenever we exchange the kids W is all happy and cheerful and playful with them. I remain calm, in control of myself and focused on them but I cannot help thinking she is putting out a big scene for S8 and S3. Maybe is my hurt talking, I cannot help it, it is just the way it feels after all she has done. I remember one of the earliest posts I got from this forum was something along the lines of Pack, she has left you, not the kids. Maybe she really is happier without me in her life, I was a fool for thinking having kids makes it so much more worth fighting for it and all the times she said I was not listening and I would be left alone, she was also right. It is fun to be the man you want to be, to live life the way you want it, to feel the peace that comes from knowing yourself and your principles and working to follow them, but it is been 3 years, and I still feel stuck in my past.

Thank you all for coming and reading, I am sure you will have some good recommendations for me. ((hugs)) Pack

[BL42]

Pack_19,

I even offered we both attend the end of school party for S8 and S3 when are meant to spend that day with me just for the sake that they can have mom and dad there, for them only.

That's good. I'm sure S3 and S8 want their parents there, like the other kids. I recently attended a school art show night during my ExW's evening for dinner, and the four of us saw my son's school and art and walked around together. It felt uncomfortable for me. And I wondered what others thought - did they know we're D'd? did they think we were a normal happy family? However, it was best for my son to have both parents be there and take pride in his efforts. So I did it for him.

I am developing a kind of apathy towards these interactions, as if I just wanted them to be over and zero exposition to W in my life.

I hear you here. It'd be much easier if we could just expel our Exs out of our lives and completely go our separate ways, but our reality is with the young children they'll be very very involved over the next decade and a half, and even after that with weddings, grandkids...etc. It's something we can't control and just have to deal with. Hopefully it'll get easier / more "normal" over time. I think it will.

I am completely focused on me and the kids.

Perfect.

Focused on my PIES

You've been crushing it with your PIES. Those goals are fantastic. Keep it up.

I spend many days sitting, almost paralyzed, thinking about all that has happened, if my M will come to be something I just will forget, a painful memory.

these days hurt me massively because I end up thinking I am still very broken inside

Are you in IC? This sounds like something a professional should help you with.

I question myself and whether my changes are permanent

It's up to you to ensure they're permanent. Make it so!

it creates insecurities to present myself to other women when the opportunity comes

Just think about your Sexual Kung Fu! That has to bring you confidence ;-)

(as I feel I still carry a lot of baggage)

It's true, you have baggage. But keep in mind most if not all people your age will as well. What's important at this point is how you've worked through your issues and are handling your baggage.

Whenever we exchange the kids W is all happy and cheerful and playful with them. I remain calm, in control of myself and focused on them

Think about how much progress you've made in this area. So much begging, pleading, pursuit in the past. Now you're calm and in control. That in itself is a major accomplishment for you.

Maybe she really is happier without me in her life

Maybe she is. Maybe she will be forever, or maybe she won't be in the future. Who knows. All you can do if focus on yourself. Which, imo, you're doing a very good job of lately.

I was a fool for thinking having kids makes it so much more worth fighting for it

You weren't a fool for wanting your marriage to work and not wanting your family to split. You were honorable in that regard. But there comes a time you have to let go, control what you can control, and move forward. You know in your heart you did everything you could for your marriage and family.

and all the times she said I was not listening and I would be left alone, she was also right.

Perhaps, but you at least you did it with the right intentions.

It is fun to be the man you want to be, to live life the way you want it, to feel the peace that comes from knowing yourself and your principles and working to follow them,

Good

but it is been 3 years, and I still feel stuck in my past.

Just keep moving forward Pack. You've made incredible progress over the last couple years. Keep up the work. You have a great future ahead.

[Drh2001]

Hi all,

Thanks for the reply Steve. I hope you are all doing great.

Most significant changes from my last post are that I continue to be cordial with W and I even offered we both attend the end of school party for S8 and S3 when are meant to spend that day with me just for the sake that they can have mom and dad there, for them only. I always smile, say hello and goodbye when we exchange the kids but I am developing a kind of apathy towards these interactions, as if I just wanted them to be over and zero exposition to W in my life. Maybe you can offer some help here, I know she will be there for the long run because of our children. Thank you all!

I have not heard back from W's L regarding the agreement for D after they asked to cancel the legal process and come to an agreement. I have days when I wake up thinking let's just finish this, send her whatever I am obliged to legally and be done with it. Other days I think well I never wanted D and I haven't met anyone, is not like my life is going to change tomorrow, I am as divorced as it gets in all possible senses.

I am completely focused on me and the kids. I workout daily, I am building my visibility and network as a leader in the new company, I still work on active listening and not pursuing anyone and just doing my thing. Focused on my PIES and letting days go by, enjoying S8 and S3 when they are home, going for a run, a ride, or a beer with a good friend when I am alone. I have signed up for a new track day with the car in Jerez and I am truly excited, also signed up for a half marathon in Valencia and just got some new clothes for summer (keeping up the good changes).

However, I am going through some struggles I wanted to share here. I spend many days sitting, almost paralyzed, thinking about all that has happened, if my M will come to be something I just will forget, a painful memory. I question myself and whether my changes are permanent, I go in my head through the list of changes I have implemented, my new goals and all I have learned from my books, as if I had reinforce the motivation to continue. I have always been a very driven person at work, with my goals, so these days hurt me massively because I end up thinking I am still very broken inside, it creates insecurities to present myself to other women when the opportunity comes (as I feel I still carry a lot of baggage) and it hits me hard on my high expectations for myself at work. Some days I still feel this is all I nightmare and I force myself to think, temporary Pack, this will also pass, even if it takes 10 years.

Whenever we exchange the kids W is all happy and cheerful and playful with them. I remain calm, in control of myself and focused on them but I cannot help thinking she is putting out a big scene for S8 and S3. Maybe is my hurt talking, I cannot help it, it is just the way it feels after all she has done. I remember one of the earliest posts I got from this forum was something along the lines of Pack, she has left you, not the kids. Maybe she really is happier without me in her life, I was a fool for thinking having kids makes it so much more worth fighting for it and all the times she said I was not listening and I would be left alone, she was also right. It is fun to be the man you want to be, to live life the way you want it, to feel the peace that comes from knowing yourself and your principles and working to follow them, but it is been 3 years, and I still feel stuck in my past.

Thank you all for coming and reading, I am sure you will have some good recommendations for me. ((hugs)) Pack

Hi Pack,

It sounds like you're doing all the right things.

I also spend time thinking about whether WW would come back but she seems perfectly fine with OM and her new life. She sees the kids even less than she used to since she got a job in the state she moved to.

Recently some of our mutual friends have started unfriending me on social media - I suppose it's to be expected. Those that haven't are cold and don't reach out.

I don't speak to WW at all - there is zero communication. I use an app for scheduling kid stuff. When WW picks up my kids on Friday evenings, she'll park in the driveway, but I don't go out or say anything to her. It really is out of sight out of mind. She no longer lives or works in the state she grew up in.

My youngest daughter is starting to warm up to me now and gave me a hug today and told me she appreciates all that I do, so it's the little things like this that matter.

I think time is a wonderful healer - but it can be an awfully long time and given how our WW spouses leave us and create so much damage, I doubt whether any of us can truly move on for good without being reminded of the past. We just have to make the best of a bad situation and lead our own life.

[SteveLW]

Pack, I am with Drh, I think you are doing all the right things. I have no advice for you or thoughts about how to work through the feelings you are having. I think those are normal, and just have to be worked through. Only suggestion I have is that when those moods strike, get up and get busy doing something productive. GAL is a new lifelong thing, just keep as busy as you can.

[Pack_19]

Hi all,
Hope you are having a great week with the Holiday in US.
I just came back from a business trip to Istanbul and wanted to post. W and I had our honeymoon in Istanbul and I thought the whole trip would be painful. It wasn´t, I tried t focus on my new colleagues, walking around the city as the attractive single man I have become and enjoying the differences in the culture. This time memories or thoughts or sadness did not overwhelmed me as they did in Munich.

A quick update on the PIES.

P- Getting much better at crossfit again and almost ready for new running competitions. I have an ugly scar below my knee after the accident but it seems to be nothing that will affect or compromise my future. Goals on keeping a healthy diet, top hygiene, improving crossfit PRs, daily sexual kung fu, marathon under 3:30 and 5 kg up on muscle mass.

I- I have received more responsibility at the new job, my manager told me people like and respect me so I have to keep working to become a greater leader but things look promising. I keep reading my books, now finishing again "Light her fire" (refreshing what women enjoy from us - confidende, imagination, playfulness, initiative, goals, sensitivity and so on...) and about to start again "What women want when they test men". Trying to improve my driving skills (using the car at the racetrack is just incredible, I attended another event at Jerez with a good friend and we had the time of our lives, shame oil price makes it a once in a while hobby). Looking into potential real state investments in Seville or Madrid but waiting for the D to be final to move any funds into investments (yes, have not heard from W´s lawyer yet). I think I am going to trade my daily driver for a 5 door car to give S3 and S8 more space, just another goal for 2023.

E- Focused on active listening and respecting other people. the more I think about my early reactions during S, the more I feel W must have thought I felt zero respect towards her. Working on detachment, letting exW go and validating her feelings that our M was very deficient (the more I learn the more I see this but the more convinced I am I was focused on providing and the kids and I am able to make any woman in the world the happiest with my new understanding of relationships and genders).

S - Keep coming here talking to you all, talking to God and ensuring I work on my thoughts when I doubt my progress and changes. Be more social and open, work on my self esteem and losing the fear to meet and interact with any woman. Thinking in terms of abundance, getting but my masculinity, sexuality and power.

Pack_19,
That's good. I'm sure S3 and S8 want their parents there, like the other kids. I recently attended a school art show night during my ExW's evening for dinner, and the four of us saw my son's school and art and walked around together. It felt uncomfortable for me. And I wondered what others thought - did they know we're D'd? did they think we were a normal happy family? However, it was best for my son to have both parents be there and take pride in his efforts. So I did it for him.

Thank you for the validation BL42, I dont think you could have expressed how I feel with better words. When these situations happen I find myself remembering the day one of S8 nursery teachers in Germany told us we had such a lovely family. W did not show up at the school party so I was there with S3 and S8 and talking to other parents.

You've been crushing it with your PIES. Those goals are fantastic. Keep it up.

My goals, my children and the feeling that this time will pass, it is all I have now.

Are you in IC? This sounds like something a professional should help you with.

I stopped IC when I took up crossfit, but I will find a new IC and will discuss this with him/her. Thanks a lot for your support.

Just think about your Sexual Kung Fu! That has to bring you confidence ;-)

I am very scared that the moment I can focus back on my career and rebuild my life, the mistakes I made with W might repeat. But you are right, the new found respect, confidence and the motivation of knowing you are taking time and effort to improve as a man change it all. Last weekend at my friends bday in a beach club I approached a woman I liked and engaged in some conversation with her. I could really tell she was also into me, I invited her to a drink and got her number. She told me I was a chatterbox and she was having a great time.

Think about how much progress you've made in this area. So much begging, pleading, pursuit in the past. Now you're calm and in control. That in itself is a major accomplishment for you.

Now it just feels natural to not invest my time on people who are not interested on it. I cannot believe how stupid I was at the beginning of S, constantly checking the phone, thinking what W was up to... I have grown so much, and mostly thanks to this board.

Maybe she really is happier without me in her life
Maybe she is. Maybe she will be forever, or maybe she won't be in the future. Who knows. All you can do if focus on yourself. Which, imo, you're doing a very good job of lately.

You weren't a fool for wanting your marriage to work and not wanting your family to split. You were honorable in that regard. But there comes a time you have to let go, control what you can control, and move forward. You know in your heart you did everything you could for your marriage and family.

thank you, I did try my best, even when I was doing all my changes for W it was poor understanding of how this game works. last week I had a crossfit competition, then we had some drinks in the afternoon and I told some guys my story as they asked me if I had kids. two divorced ones with children were amazed that I was so young and had gone through these. One of them said: "Pack, when you want to talk come to me, I will understand you. He said, the sadness when you leave them will never disappear, for me I still cry at home. Sometimes music triggers a memory when my son was a baby and it still affects me." He also told me I had to accept the war against W to gain children favour was already lost, that all I had to do is focus on me and the kids and force myself to think "I cannot let this woman destroy my life anymore, no matter what she does, I will not let it impact my happiness".

Just keep moving forward Pack. You've made incredible progress over the last couple years. Keep up the work. You have a great future ahead.

This is a marathon to become the best man I can be, and the best role model for S3 and S8. thank you, I am always so happy to come back to the board.

[Pack_19]

Hi Pack,

It sounds like you're doing all the right things.

I also spend time thinking about whether WW would come back but she seems perfectly fine with OM and her new life. She sees the kids even less than she used to since she got a job in the state she moved to.

Recently some of our mutual friends have started unfriending me on social media - I suppose it's to be expected. Those that haven't are cold and don't reach out.

I don't speak to WW at all - there is zero communication. I use an app for scheduling kid stuff. When WW picks up my kids on Friday evenings, she'll park in the driveway, but I don't go out or say anything to her. It really is out of sight out of mind. She no longer lives or works in the state she grew up in.

My youngest daughter is starting to warm up to me now and gave me a hug today and told me she appreciates all that I do, so it's the little things like this that matter.

I think time is a wonderful healer - but it can be an awfully long time and given how our WW spouses leave us and create so much damage, I doubt whether any of us can truly move on for good without being reminded of the past. We just have to make the best of a bad situation and lead our own life.

Hi Drh2001,

Thanks for the message. I do not have the full story behind your sitch but based on the fact that you mention OM and your youngest daughter opening up to you I imagine you have suffered so much, lean on me whenever you need, I can imagine how you must have felt.

I am sure you have room to give yourself to your daughter so that she will continue to warm up, love on her, talk to her and try to make new memories. Continue to work on yourself as a man and father, it is the most rewarding consequence of this purgatory.

Not sure about the time, I am confident it will help me heal but I will never fully get over the damage caused by the person I had planned to have as my life companion. But hey, it is a world of abundance and right now all I have to do is become the best possible role model for my children. I never want my little boys to go through this hell I have experienced.

Pack, I am with Drh, I think you are doing all the right things. I have no advice for you or thoughts about how to work through the feelings you are having. I think those are normal, and just have to be worked through. Only suggestion I have is that when those moods strike, get up and get busy doing something productive. GAL is a new lifelong thing, just keep as busy as you can.

Hi SteveLW, deep inside my head I know I am doing the right things, all the good books I have resonate on the same ideas. Focus on yourself, cover your needs, be happy alone, confident, keep busy, set goals, own and express your feelings, set boundaries with others, know and handle the differences between men and women, be outgoing and social or improve spiritually.

The good thing is that I have surrounded myself with activities to fight these thoughts. Running and crossfit, calisthenics, riding the motorbike, my books, shopping for sport clothes hahahaha

thanks for the help and validation. I am sure Sandi would be proud of me if she could read this, I am going to continue to make her so. It is wonderful how much you have helped me change sitting behind a computer screen. Thank you all!

[BL42]

Pack,

What's the latest on the official/legal D process?

[BL42]

Pack_19,

It's been awhile...how are you doing? Hope you're crushing life with your marathons and sexual kung fu!