Saving Pack through D, Pack_19 part V

[Pack_19]

Hi all!

I really needed to come back here, but I had to put together the courage to write in a time when I am feeling a bit of a failure in my DB. It has been over 3 years since W left our home in Germany and as you can imagine all I hear around me is that I should just move on. However, I wake up everyday convinced I have to leave it all behind but filled with thoughts about our family and all we lived together.

I finally have a new divorce agreement and we will be signing it next month. After a lot of lawyer negotiation, we have agreed that I will pay more than I consider fair from the house we sold in Munich and in exchange we will limit the pension I pay on shared custody. It seems with our salary difference any judge in Spain would give me a more than generous pension. I have been feeling like the financial topic should not bother me, I should be able to say "W, here is your half, go and enjoy your life, I will do the same with mine". Yet, I worked so hard for all we had and I had to bring down after she left, let's just say I am working on those feelings and letting it go.

R with W continues to feel artificial and forced due to the kids. Just the other day we went to the doctor with S8 and we stayed always distant and focused on S8. I spent2 hours last week talking to my parent about these feelings. They told I need to find a woman who truly loves me and then my mind will find peace, they said I see W from the eyes of a man who loved her when she left and I need to understand that she does not care about me as a man, just about the children and her relationship with them. I know what they are trying to say, but I dont look at her like that anymore, we are strangers for God sake, but somehow I still see the mother of my children and it breaks my heart that we are going to be apart for the rest of our lives, we will remain strangers and eventually forget the stage we shared.

I am killing my PIES and the relationship with the kids. I go to crossfit daily, I continue to read my books (just finished The power of now and re-reading now The way of the superior man), I am working on my confidence, talking to women I meet at different places and perceiving rejection as something positive that saves me time (fine I cannot think about W like that, my brain is really messed). I recently traveled to Jordan and Israel with some friends and we had the time of our lives. I am working for a promo and recently interviewed with Meta for a manager position. I havent heard from them and I fear hiring in Europe has been frozen due to restructuring.

I havent met anyone, I have very high standards after all I have suffered and limited time with the kids, work and all the exercising. It has been impossible to find a woman that keeps me interested and attracted to put the effort I need to balance all things in my life now. I have made a reservation for a new home, larger so that each kid can have his own room and I can pay the initial 10% downpayment with the money I saved from selling the house in Munich. It should be built in 2 years, that gives me more time for saving and the opportunity to sign a comfortable mortgage. I also have plans to start a business on cloud ML projects, I need to find the right industry and use case and then build the team.

Now that is has been over a year after my hard deadline, there are no excuses and there is no way back. Even if she were to come back, I would not want to be with the person she has become and have the conversations we would need to have about these years, I am worth more than that. With that in mind, I need help from the forum members on how to force myself to move on.

Updated PIES:
[b]P[\b] - Improve my PRs in crossfit. Marathon under 3´30". Gain muscle weight, keep my wardrobe fresh. Chin up and chest out, I should be proud of the new man I have become. Practice my sexual kung fu, easier when I meet someone.
[b]I[\b] - Work for a promo, improve my skills as a leader. Keep reading about relationships and how women interact with men. Improve my driving and motorbike riding skills. Start my own business.
[b]E[\b] - Improve my active listen, show empathy, stay humble and work on improving myself as a man and father. Let W go, accept it is over and there is only one way ahead and it is not what I wanted it to be. DETACH
[b]S[\b] - Accept I cannot control my way out of this. Travel to Japan and learn about eastern religions. Stay optimistic about my future.

Thank you all, I cannot wait to hear from you!
((hugs)), Pack

[Kind18]

Hi Pack, welcome back!

You shouldn’t ever feel like you need to pluck up the “courage” to come back here and post on the board.

Your feelings are your feelings. This is a safe space. Yes, posters get called out in things from time to time. But that’s also what this board is for. If you want to come here for hugs, you’re at the wrong place. If you want to come to read others’ stories, get new insight, learn about relationships and yourself - well then it’s the place to be.

Just post. You don’t need courage if you’re here for the right reasons, because you can either shrug off the odd criticism or learn from it.

I think you’re crushing 99% of life and DB. It sounds like you’re doing ALL the right things. I think you should be really proud of what you’ve achieved.

The one thing you’re stuck on is your feelings for old her. And that’s normal.

I REALLY think you should get some IC, perhaps with a brand new counsellor, and tell them everything you just wrote here. You’re kicking life’s butt, and the only thing holding you back is feelings for the old her. They will give you some strategies to move on emotionally.

The absolute worst advice I’ve heard is “the way to get over a man/woman, is to get under another one”… but in your case, since you’ve done all the hard work, I think once you start developing feelings for someone else then it will be the final piece of the puzzle in letting go of what your ex-wife used to be.

You’ve rebuilt yourself from the ground up, you know you don’t want to be with this woman, you’re comfortable in your own skin and being single… so why not start mingling?

In terms of the “it’s hard to find someone” because you have high standards, that’s all true - but I don’t think you’re looking to find someone to marry next week! You might find, once you go on a few dates, that what you used to look for, and what the new Pack is looking for - could be very different.

Don’t be downcast. You aren’t still stuck where you were before, even if you have fleeting times thinking about how it used to be. Look at it from the other perspective - you’re 99% of the way there, and only 1% left to go.

[Ready2Change]

Welcome back.

I need help from the forum members on how to force myself to move on.

Best thing is to keep posting. It always takes time to heal. We will help however you need.

[SteveLW]

P19, great update! Remember, the emotions through all of this are not linear and have no time limit. I've known LBSs that were still struggling with feelings for their walkaway years later. The heart wants what the heart wants, and it can take a long time to let that go.

In general I think you are still crushing it! You have the right attitude. You are doing the right things. You are keeping the focus on where it should be. Regrets, unfortunately, last a lifetime sometimes. I have regrets from decades ago. The nice thing about regrets is that they keep us remembering that there are lessons to be learned from them. Many of my regrets from 30+ years ago keep me sober and dry today. I wouldn't have it any other way!

So keep up the good work. Move on at your own pace and in your own way. You've got this!

[BL42]

Pack_19,

Welcome back! It's great to hear from you. I was wondering how things were going.

Sorry to hear you're still struggling. There was recent post in the Midlife Crisis Forum by a user I've been meaning to share on a few Newbie threads, but seems especially relevant to you:

If there was any advice I could give a newbie, it would be to do the work, move on, and live your life as if the EX isn't coming back. Don't waste time. Life is too short.

Easier said than done, for sure. You've excelled in GAL but struggled a great deal with detachment since the beginning. But you've made progress. Look back and think of a couple years ago and realize how far you've come.

I finally have a new divorce agreement and we will be signing it next month.

I'm sorry to hear it's come to this. Finalizing the D is often an emotional time, even when it's been in the works for awhile. Hopefully you can use it as closure for this chapter in your life.

I have been feeling like the financial topic should not bother me, I should be able to say "W, here is your half, go and enjoy your life, I will do the same with mine". Yet, I worked so hard for all we had and I had to bring down after she left, let's just say I am working on those feelings and letting it go.

The financial impact can be frustrating for sure. But in the end the money isn't the most important thing. Once you can let it go you'll free yourself up to focus more on your kids and your new life.

They told I need to find a woman who truly loves me and then my mind will find peace

Many would argue the reverse of this. Find peace with yourself and your situation and then you will find a W to compliment your life. You don't need other people to find peace and happiness. If you seek them out for this reason it has a high chance of not ending well.

they said I see W from the eyes of a man who loved her when she left and I need to understand that she does not care about me as a man

I think they're right on this one.

I am killing my PIES and the relationship with the kids.

Great stuff on the kids, CrossFit, reading, trips with friends, your career, and the new
house

I havent met anyone, I have very high standards after all I have suffered and limited time with the kids, work and all the exercising. It has been impossible to find a woman that keeps me interested and attracted to put the effort I need to balance all things in my life now.

It's OK not to focus on meeting someone. Don't make that a metric of your progress. Like I said above you're doing great with the GAL. You're improving your life and when the time is right will attract a partner who treats you far better than your STBXW has for years, or maybe ever.

Pack - Don't be too hard on yourself. You were dealt and incredibly difficult hand, and have made great strides. You'll get there.

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for your words, coming here is always coming to a safe place and for more learning.

I am finally divorced. No excuses to move forward, no more thoughts about one person single-handed changing a R and no more thoughts of having ExW or my old family back. We signed last December. I did not tell anyone, I showed up there read the new agreement, waited for her to sign it, came in afterwards, signed it and left to crossfit (the crossfit gym is officially my second home, I am thinking about putting a mattress there and paying them rent). My L made a remark on how W seemed unease as we were signing it, I did not pay attention to her, I never do. I think it is probably the apathy I feel towards this stranger she has become and the way I have written in my head that interacting with her is just getting more disrespect and pain.

My children, my PIES and Pack are the center of my universe. I work very hard on being there for my children and give them the right balance between a loving father, a reference male figure and the authority they need to grow to become responsible and loving men. Last week I re-read my previous four threads and it is giving me a new perception. I remember times at home when W was asking me to sit further away from her, hiding messages on her phone, when she mocked me about me learning about relationships from books and all the painful days thinking about potential OMs and crying on my bed. I must still be in love with the image I hold of her and my family but there is no way that she loved me during each of those episodes, she probably never did and we only got married because we had just had a baby and it felt the right thing to do to her.

Whenever we interact I am a distant father, nothing more. I leave the first, I discuss any matters about S4 or S9 that worries me and I ask for a reply by email. I am present at every school event, I take them to sports and I read with them everyday, but I no longer even mention mom to them. I am more detached, I talked about my life in the UK and Germany in first person, I have goals for the future and I have learned the amount of baggage I carry due to my failed M and my broken family.

However, I still listen to my recording with the golden nuggets from this forum more often that I should to remind me that I am work in progress and need to continue improving in my PIES. Main difference is that now I tell myself, it has been over 3 years Pack, a lot of things happen in 3 years, you have to move on and you have to start a new life for you and your kids. I dont talk to anyone about my D or ExW, I think this is one of the reasons why I wanted to come back here, it is still in my head but I have blocked the subject outside of my support circle.

Sometimes when we exchange the kids ExW comes with new friends, people I have never seen and it just makes me think that she really meant to start over and a new life the many times she told me that at home in Munich. Sometimes we discuss medical issues from the kids and I message at the end that I wish her a good day. No expectations, just being polite, and she never comes back. I dont expect any or are hurt by this behaviour, it just makes me think she still hates me and blames me for all. Having forced myself to move on, even when my brain is still pulled towards the fantasy of our live in Germany, I struggle a lot with how this is going to affect our children now and in the long term. As I have said many times here, I want them to learn how to respond to this behaviour from a woman so I try to be cordial but strong in front of ExW.

I still struggle with the idea that there have been multiple OMs and there will be more to come. I am scared of ExW moving on to a new R and bringing a new man to the world of our children. I know I will always be their only father and the one they will admire and look up to and that is fully under my control. But I struggle with the thought that the person who swore to be your life partner in good and bad just gives up and builds a new life. She must not have valued me much as a man, even before we got married.

My PIES continue to be on full mode. Last sunday I ran a half marathon in 1:30 and that was a personal target I had. I am reading again "The multi orgasmic man" and practising my sexual kung-fu, I keep using any chance I get to practice active listening and improving my empathy. I get attention from women, which tells me that I am doing the right thing, is just that at my age is hard to find people who accept you being the father of 2 children, one of them being 9. Not that I care now, I am still building the amazing solo life for Paco.

Updated PIES:
P - Improve my PRs in crossfit. Marathon under 3´30". Gain muscle weight, keep my wardrobe fresh. Chin up and chest out, I should be proud of the new man I have become. Practice my sexual kung fu and improve my diet.
I - Improve as a leader at work, read more about financial success and investments. Promote at work
E - Improve my active listen, show empathy, stay humble and work on improving myself as a man and father. Let W go, accept it is over and there is only one way ahead and it is not what I wanted it to be. DETACH and think as the single man I am.
S - Accept I cannot control my way out of this, talk to God, know the man I am, the man I want to be a define a path to get there.

When I last saw my L to talk about payments he made a joyful comment at the door. He said, btw pack, you are no longer divorced, you are now single. I am not sure if he means he has been able to process the annulment of our M. If so, fresh start and chin up.

Can I ask for some help with an issue. What is the best way to show or express to S9 that I am pass trying to get W back and moving ahead alone. Is there value in even showing this to him? I may have failed in the fight for my marriage, but this will not determine the caliber of a man I am.

Thank you all for your support and comments.

((hugs))
Pack

[BL42]

Pack,

Always good to hear from you.

I am finally divorced. No excuses to move forward, no more thoughts about one person single-handed changing a R and no more thoughts of having ExW or my old family back.

Hope this closure brings you peace and ability to move forward. Not what you wanted, but the decision wasn't yours.

My L made a remark on how W seemed unease as we were signing it, I did not pay attention to her, I never do.

Maybe, maybe not. Who knows. Perhaps even she doesn't. Glad you signed w/dignity and have detached.

My children, my PIES and Pack are the center of my universe.

I looked back at your profile and see that you're relatively young compared to many here, early 30s if I'm estimating correctly? Keep crushing it with your children, work, and PIES...like you have been, and I've no doubt you're going to have an amazing life. And a young guy in fantastic shape with a great career is going to attract a wonderful woman into your life.

Last week I re-read my previous four threads and it is giving me a new perception. I remember times at home when W was asking me to sit further away from her, hiding messages on her phone, when she mocked me about me learning about relationships from books and all the painful days thinking about potential OMs and crying on my bed. I must still be in love with the image I hold of her and my family but there is no way that she loved me during each of those episodes

Man, this really resonates. Brought back memories of Sitting far on the other side of the couch and texting OM1 in the same room...etc. Glad we're both in better spots dropping our fear and never standing for this kind of disrespect again.

I still struggle with the idea that there have been multiple OMs and there will be more to come. I am scared of ExW moving on to a new R and bringing a new man to the world of our children.

I'm kind of in the opposite position where OM2 has been a "stable" (if you can call it that) presence in ExW and kids' lives. That bothers me as well, but then I look at your side of the prospect of many different guys and that's just as bad. Either way it's not ideal, but again...need to let go of the things we can't control.

I know I will always be their only father and the one they will admire and look up to and that is fully under my control.

Indeed. Ginger reminds me her D14 calls her mom and does not call OW her mom, even though she's been in her life since she was 1.

But I struggle with the thought that the person who swore to be your life partner in good and bad just gives up and builds a new life.

I hear ya. A lot here can relate. My ExW seamlessly jumped into a new "perfect family" situation with OM2, his sister and nieces...etc all across the street; didn't seem to skip a beat in life. How is that possible? So easily replace me and my family? Not sure. But again, focus on you not ExW. You're officially single and have a great life ahead of you.

She must not have valued me much as a man, even before we got married.

It's not about you Pack! It's about her. Her history and demons and trying to process through her stuff. Likely would've happened the same with another guy. Don't put it all on you. I think you're a good guy who loved his wife and family and didn't deserve this.

Can I ask for some help with an issue. What is the best way to show or express to S9 that I am pass trying to get W back and moving ahead alone. Is there value in even showing this to him? I may have failed in the fight for my marriage, but this will not determine the caliber of a man I am.

Don't think I'd broach the topic. If he asks I'd just be straightforward and honest about it without going into details.

[greenman]

Hey Pack. You will gradually stop worrying about the details and asking yourself these tough questions. Until then, keep yourself occupied and moving forward like you are. NOTHING but time heals this, but it does.

[Gekko]

Pack you have come a long way. Keep going. The road to greatness doesn't have an end, there is no finish line. So enjoy the journey because that is all any of us has.

I don't think you have to say anything to your son about moving on. Just do it. He will see your actions and how you are showing up in the world. Remember you are an example to him of what a man is, how a man conducts himself. It's a great responsibility (no pressure LOL).

Don't get sidetracked inside your head re your ex bringing OM around the kids. You can't stop it. Accept it will happen. They have one father and that's you my friend. Be the man. There are ways to deal with any negative influences that OM and/or your ex have on the kids. I have some experience with this re my ex. The good people on this board will provide direction if that happens. Unless and until it does, don't worry about. Be a strong and dominant role model and influencer yourself such that others pale in comparison.

Good luck, keep going.

[Pack_19]

hi all,

Gekko, greenman, Ben, Steve, LH, Traveler and R2C thank you for staying with me through all of this. I have Sandi constantly in my head, the other day I met a woman who was into me and wanted to hear about my situation with the kids. I told her I had support from a M forum and she was positively impressed. She mentioned: "sometimes only the people who have lived through the same can help". I was sitting there thinking you have no idea how these people have saved me and shaped by hammer the man I am today.

I am 32, so yes nobody expects me to say btw I am a father and have shared custody of 2 children but hey that is who I am! 3.5 years since that dreadful summer day I came home to the words "I dont love you and I dont want to be with you anymore", divorced and still fighting my demons and pushing me to live one day at a time, focused on building a wonderful, loving man who follows his principles and acts as a role model to S9 and S5. Crushing my PIES, but still broken inside and in need of good help from this amazing forum.

I am rooted on my focus on my children and my PIES. I took them this weekend to see the new le mans cars in Portimao circuit and we had an amazing time, I bought the PS VR set to play with S9 and we had such good laughs (I was hitting all furniture in my small living room hahahaha) and I played padel tennis (I used to be a coach and he has realized he can really learn from me and after one hour he was asking for more time with me on the court) with S9 while S5 was helping us picking up the balls.

I have learned new moves in crossfit and improved my PRs, and I plan to continue. I have a group of friends there I look forward to seeing daily and I recently bought some adidas pro running shoes (at some point they got me running at 5:15 a mile) and I love them. I think if I keep training and competing I can improve my best times and probably get a decent marathon time this year. I recently re-read NMMNG and I am already paying the new home and very excited the kids will have a closed place to meet friends and play daily.

A cousin recently passed away with stomach cancer, she was 35 and had a D4. My sister and mom were devastated and I tried to be a rock for them. All the family has been deeply affected, I had entire nights thinking about death and not sleeping. I tried to use the experience to push me forward, think Pack life is short and you are no D, zero excuses you need to build a new life. I still read my previous threads here and listen to my golden nuggets, however now I think you are D, you are not getting anything back, nor would you want to after all that has happened. But you need these because they have fueled you to become the man you are now. Not sure if I am expressing myself properly.

So, as a summary, GAL, PIES, kids and my values. However, I cannot seem to let go of the things W told me at home in Munich. Things like how unlike that out of all the men out there you are the father of my children or I have analyzed my life and you are the one thing not working. Why do I still let those statements tumble the image I have of myself and the newly found admiration and respect for the man I am? Sometimes I think it would be easier to just have that device from the men in black movie and just erase my memory. Even though it is true those past regrets are what will keep me focused on improving and becoming the best role model for my children.

I want to ask for help from other single parents. How do you balance your career and the time with the kids? I spend a lot of time preparing snacks, tidying after them, I always do the school run, I attend all bday parties, I clean their clothes... and that unavoidably has an effect on my productivity and the time I can spend fully focused at work. Sometimes I think I should get help at home (my mum and sister already help me massively) but then I think I want to be close to my children and present. Maybe this is just a period of my life I need to park my career speed and focus on being with them otherwise I will regret it when they grow independent. Dont get me wrong, I love my job, I want a successful career and a ferrari, but the best time of the day is the pillow or nerf fight I have with S9 and S5 before bath time, I wouldnt change that for anything. I am just trying to find a balance and I wanted to ask here as maybe some of you can resonate and help me.


Updated PIES:
P - Improve my PRs in crossfit. Marathon under 3´30". Gain muscle weight, keep my wardrobe fresh. Chin up and chest out, I should be proud of the new man I have become. Practice my sexual kung fu and improve my diet.
I - Start a company or build a career that allows me to go racing as a hobby. Improve my driving and riding abilities. Learn about men and women.
E - Improve my active listen, show empathy, stay humble and work on improving myself as a man and father. Approach more women and start conversations. DETACH and think as the single man I am.
S - Accept I cannot control my way out of this, talk to God and be a role model for my kids.

thank you all, I so needed to come and post after these few weeks.