Quick recap: H: late 30s, M: early 30s Together 11 yrs Living in separate countries due to work 9/22 BD two weeks before I am supposed to move to Country B with H H pressures me to start paperwork 11-12/22 12/22 H admits to OWs in the course of a pity-party R talk, reiterates he wants a D
Now: I have moved back to Country A and have a temporary housing arrangement. H says he's sorry for pressuring me about D and he was wrong to do that. He says I can take my time finding a place first before moving forward with D.
Having a bad day. Ruminated a lot. Am also very tired, probably a combination of going out last night + health issues. But I committed to going to a party tonight, so I will muster up some PMA and get out there.
"If you still feel that there is something you want to talk about, I can do it. Just FYI."
For context, I had previously told him that I thought it was unwise to rush into a life-changing decision without any discussion.
First time he's reached out like this since BD.
I am wary. Is he playing nice because I spooked him? Meaning, he's scared of what my L might do to him? Or is this him wanting to have an R talk (but weirdly trying to pin it on me)? A touch-and-go?
Not sure how to respond. Because frankly every interaction we have disturbs my equilibrium. But maybe he has something to say.
I can relate marching. I’m tired and tired of all of this stuff. Every interaction with WW disrupts my equilibrium too. Not looking forward to her return, but shifting my focus somewhat from planning my days to survive her absence to resting and being well and planning to thrive going forward. Getting extra therapy help and connecting in with best friends.
Ugh. The in-jokes and chit chat from yesterday triggered me. Today, I'm thinking of happier times, when H and I were so simpatico, playing off each other like a comedy duo.
Why the chit chat in the first place? Is it needed? It's important for your mental health you detach so if these interactions aren't helpful there and cause you spin you may consider ceasing them.
Originally Posted by marching
I had a blast at the party. Really glad I went.
Good for you for forcing yourself to go out. GAL is important.
Originally Posted by marching
I am wary. Is he playing nice because I spooked him? Meaning, he's scared of what my L might do to him? Or is this him wanting to have an R talk (but weirdly trying to pin it on me)? A touch-and-go?
Lots of speculation on his motives. Focus on what's best for you.
Originally Posted by marching
Because frankly every interaction we have disturbs my equilibrium.
Right...so stop them.
Originally Posted by marching
But maybe he has something to say.
He's not going to say what you truly want him to right now.
Originally Posted by LH19
I wouldn’t respond at all.
I agreed w/LH.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
AD drowsiness + GAL + work have kept me from posting for a bit. I guess the combination of these three things have pretty effectively blunted a lot of the emotions that had me spiraling over a week ago.
As for communication with H, I did respond after a few days. I said I'm also open to talking. Didn't ask any questions or share any of my feelings. No response from H as of yet.
BL42 you make a good point about considering limiting the chit chat to facilitate detachment. I actually felt fine during the conversation and only felt the disequilibrium a day or so later. I'm figuring it out as I go along. The only hard rule I have is to not initiate. I see how things go the next time H and I have an interaction.
Not much else to report. Spending a lot of time with friends and trying to not think about the future too much.
AD drowsiness + GAL + work have kept me from posting for a bit. I guess the combination of these three things have pretty effectively blunted a lot of the emotions that had me spiraling over a week ago.
As for communication with H, I did respond after a few days. I said I'm also open to talking. Didn't ask any questions or share any of my feelings. No response from H as of yet.
BL42 you make a good point about considering limiting the chit chat to facilitate detachment. I actually felt fine during the conversation and only felt the disequilibrium a day or so later. I'm figuring it out as I go along. The only hard rule I have is to not initiate. I see how things go the next time H and I have an interaction.
Not much else to report. Spending a lot of time with friends and trying to not think about the future too much.
Hi Marching! Glad you checked in. I was wondering how you were.
The emotional turmoil seeing him/talking to him will churn up will lessen with time. So glad you're GAL. Don't worry about the future - there's no way to know what will happen, so worrying is useless. (Easier said than done). FWIW I predict a really healthy happy future for you, and it seems like most on the board do too based on the responses you get
Focus on you, try to work out as much as you can to help your mental health. You got this.
I appreciate your encouraging words, Newborn. It's so helpful to be reminded that everything will work out.
Rockon, good that you're focus is elsewhere, not on W.
--
I am trying to fill up my schedule so that I don't think about H contacting me about either the extra, previously unanticipated step with our D process or an R talk. I'm going to be honest: I did feel some hope when he said he was open to talking. But before you come at me with a 2x4, I know, I know—have no expectations. Live as if I am already D'd.
My primary concern at the moment is my health. I recently found out I have pretty severe anemia, and that combined with the fatigue from the ADs have slowed me down a lot. So I've had to change up my exercise routine and work goals quite a bit. But I never say no to invites from friends.
I'm getting better. I managed to get through my martial arts class this week without feeling faint. GALing like crazy. There were only two nights when I didn't attend some sort of social event.
Today I got a text from H. He said he's starting therapy next week and gave a bunch of details on how he arranged it.
I take this as a sign that he does still feel emotionally connected to me in some way. It doesn't necessarily mean he's interested in reconciliation. But it is a big change from how he interacted with me just two months ago.
I'm getting better. I managed to get through my martial arts class this week without feeling faint. GALing like crazy. There were only two nights when I didn't attend some sort of social event.
Martial arts? Nice! Way to stay busy and be social.
Originally Posted by marching
Today I got a text from H. He said he's starting therapy next week and gave a bunch of details on how he arranged it.
Did you respond? Hopefully not...he needs therapy for sure but that's not your issue anymore.
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
That's why you shouldn't respond but I bet you did.
I am afraid you are only half correct.
Originally Posted by BL42
Did you respond? Hopefully not...he needs therapy for sure but that's not your issue anymore.
I haven't responded—yet. But I will after I talk to the DB coach.
So far I've been a little less friendly than the DB coach suggested (yes, she held firm to the "being friends" strategy even after I told her about the OWs) but also a little more responsive than advised here. This Middle Way seems to be working because we went from him wanting to start the D immediately, saying that talking to me makes him feel bad, and insisting that he is fine, to him not being in a rush to D, saying that he's willing to talk, and starting therapy. Of course, this could all change, but overall the temperature has gone down, which is good for my healing. So, if this roller coaster goes down again, I'm confident I'll be stronger than I was during previous dips.
All to say that even though I don't always follow the advice here directly, I always reflect on it and follow the spirit of it, and the input is always appreciated.
Originally Posted by BL42
Martial arts? Nice! Way to stay busy and be social.
Yes! I'm learning how to literally kick a$$. It makes me feel great!
So far I've been a little less friendly than the DB coach suggested (yes, she held firm to the "being friends" strategy even after I told her about the OWs) but also a little more responsive than advised here. This Middle Way seems to be working because we went from him wanting to start the D immediately, saying that talking to me makes him feel bad, and insisting that he is fine, to him not being in a rush to D, saying that he's willing to talk, and starting therapy. Of course, this could all change, but overall the temperature has gone down, which is good for my healing.
Whether you respond or not, just try not to do it with any expectations.
Originally Posted by marching
So, if this roller coaster goes down again, I'm confident I'll be stronger than I was during previous dips.
Good. That's important.
Originally Posted by marching
All to say that even though I don't always follow the advice here directly, I always reflect on it and follow the spirit of it, and the input is always appreciated.
Fair enough. We don't always agree here anyway; reflecting on it and making your own decision is smart. It's your life.
Originally Posted by marching
Originally Posted by BL42
Martial arts? Nice! Way to stay busy and be social.
Yes! I'm learning how to literally kick a$$. It makes me feel great!
Niiiice! Get after it!
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
Hey Marching! Just catching up on your sitch, keep up the great work! How is the DB coach? I reached out by email to MWDs team and they stated didn’t have that program available any longer.
Hi Fwd, thanks for checking my thread. MWD directed me to my DB Coach; one of the people who used to be part of the DB coaching team and now does coaching on her own.
Last edited by DnJ; 02/11/2304:27 PM. Reason: Removed link to off site coach.
I ended up not asking DB coach how to respond to this particular message and applied the general principle of "be a friend and also a little mysterious." So, I simply wrote, "I'm glad you're taking care of yourself."
I can see that H read the message. He has not replied. I have a feeling he'll reach out again in the near future.
I will admit, H starting therapy does give me some hope. He's looking within. That said, I'm trying not to have any expectations. So, I'm telling myself that if the fog ever starts to clear, it could take a while, and even so, it might not mean that he wants to R. His therapist might even validate his decision to blow up his life, who knows. I can't control any of this. I'm still moving forward as if I am already D'ed. I'm making plans that would make moving back to Country B any time soon kinda difficult.
I have another very social weekend ahead. It's amazing how much better I feel now. I'm in such a different place than I was just a month ago. There's still sadness and anxiety in the background, but most of the time I'm able to take pleasure in things. GAL, exercise, meditation, and ADs are working.
Last edited by DnJ; 02/11/2304:28 PM. Reason: Removed name of DB coach.
M, This sounds like a positive measured approach keeping your focus in yourself and your life and future moving forward. I am experimenting with adjusting some dynamics and plan to evaluate and adjust as indicated. Happy ADs and everything else you are doing so well are having positive effect. R
I'm telling myself that if the fog ever starts to clear, it could take a while, and even so, it might not mean that he wants to R.
And YOU might not want to R by then.
Originally Posted by marching
His therapist might even validate his decision to blow up his life, who knows. I can't control any of this.
Very possible. I thought ExW being back in IC would help...it did not.
Originally Posted by marching
I'm still moving forward as if I am already D'ed.
Good.
Originally Posted by marching
I have another very social weekend ahead. It's amazing how much better I feel now. I'm in such a different place than I was just a month ago. There's still sadness and anxiety in the background, but most of the time I'm able to take pleasure in things. GAL, exercise, meditation, and ADs are working.
Good stuff, marching!
Me:39 Ex-W:37 M:7 T: 9 S:6 D:3 BD/IHS/Confirm EA/PA: Feb '20 OM1 affair ends: May '20 W/OM2 & moves out: June-July '20 W files for D: Jul20 OM2 confirmed: 9/2020 Divorced: May '21
I will admit, H starting therapy does give me some hope. He's looking within. That said, I'm trying not to have any expectations. So, I'm telling myself that if the fog ever starts to clear, it could take a while, and even so, it might not mean that he wants to R. His therapist might even validate his decision to blow up his life, who knows. I can't control any of this. I'm still moving forward as if I am already D'ed. I'm making plans that would make moving back to Country B any time soon kinda difficult.
I have another very social weekend ahead. It's amazing how much better I feel now. I'm in such a different place than I was just a month ago. There's still sadness and anxiety in the background, but most of the time I'm able to take pleasure in things. GAL, exercise, meditation, and ADs are working.
I'm so glad you're doing better! This forum has really the best advice in the world. You ultimately learn how much DBing is really just for you. We initially come here looking for ways to reconcile, ultimately realizing reconciliation is just a bonus to our journey of self discovery and regaining our worth.
I agree with BL42, ultimately you may not even want to R if H ever leaves the fog. FWIW my ex has been in IC since BD#1 and I don't think she's doing him any favors, so agree completely with you not having expectations as validation is certainly a possibility. Regardless, he can do his thing and you're doing yours and doing an amazing job, keep it up!
Hope the anemia is better! Iron deficiency is awful and isn't taken seriously enough by MDs IMO.
Last edited by Newborn; 02/12/2305:06 PM. Reason: language
I really appreciate the support, everyone. I don't think I would be as far along without having this board as a resource. Lurkers, I encourage you to post.
Thanks for removing the DB coach information, DnJ.
BL42, Newborn—I am beginning to feel that if H were to propose reconciliation, I wouldn't necessarily jump at the opportunity. There's definitely some cycling. I know I can thrive on my own. Sometimes I can even see myself dating in the (distant) future.
It turns out I can stay in the sublet longer than originally discussed. So that's nice, not having to worry about searching for an apartment soon. I have enough on my plate with the health issues (thank you validating the trials of anemia, Newborn!) and just trying to get back into the swing of things at work, which is pretty busy at the moment. I've now been back in Big City for a month and half, which is really not that long for catching my breath considering how much I traveled last year. And I only just started on the ADs, so they haven't even taken full effect yet. Trying to be kind to myself.
Now that I've settled in a bit, there are some items I'd like H to ship over. I could live without those things but having them sent would make my life a little easier. And it's cheaper than having to buy replacements. I will admit that I hesitate to ask because I fear (yes, again operating from fear) that it will lead H will ask about D. I can honestly tell him that I don't have the bandwidth to add D on top of everything. I dislike that I still have this fear. I'm telling myself that it's my stuff, I should be able to use it when I want. The fact that I can't is no fault of mine. H caused this mess.
I'll tell him that I still don't have my own place and my sublet is small, so I just want these few things for now. I don't have room for much else.
I have mixed feelings about this D. I want more time to process my feelings. Either until I get to the point where I feel I want to move on or until H says he wants to work things out. I guess the point is that I want to be the one to decide.
At least for now, H isn't pushing things. And I'm not going to bring it up. He hasn't initiated any contact since telling me he's starting therapy. He would have already had his first appointment. I haven't asked about it.
The limbo continues. But I increasingly understand why one of the mantras here is to think of it as the gift of time.
I’m glad to hear your sublet was extended. Nice to hear you’re settling in too.
Originally Posted by marching
Now that I've settled in a bit, there are some items I'd like H to ship over. I could live without those things but having them sent would make my life a little easier. And it's cheaper than having to buy replacements. I will admit that I hesitate to ask because I fear (yes, again operating from fear) that it will lead H will ask about D. I can honestly tell him that I don't have the bandwidth to add D on top of everything. I dislike that I still have this fear. I'm telling myself that it's my stuff, I should be able to use it when I want. The fact that I can't is no fault of mine. H caused this mess.
I understand the worry and fear about H using any conversation as a lead in for a divorce discussion. However, I think you are looking for a reason to bring it up. And to stick to H a bit. A manifestation of some anger and bargaining and fear in there.
“I could live without those things but having them sent would make my life a little easier. And it's cheaper than having to buy replacements.”
What will you do if he won’t send then back?
I’ve no idea the items. Are they something he might be using? Would the shipping costs be significantly less than buying, and then having, brand new?
If they would make your life easier, why not just get them? As in buy, and have them today.
Originally Posted by marching
I'll tell him that I still don't have my own place and my sublet is small, so I just want these few things for now. I don't have room for much else.
He could ship it all to you, even if you requested him to not. Then what?
If you are going to request these items - requesting not telling will likely bring about better results from H - ask for all and store them yourself. Do not utilize H as a storage facility. Or ask for some and write off the remainder.
Also, are these clearly your’s? Or could they be considered marital assets?
Originally Posted by marching
I have mixed feelings about this D. I want more time to process my feelings. Either until I get to the point where I feel I want to move on or until H says he wants to work things out. I guess the point is that I want to be the one to decide.
In my opinion, this is more the crux of this and less about items.
You have mixed feelings. Perfectly normal. Do not make decisions or take actions based upon feelings. Look back, think back, three months ago, what you were willing to do to save things. Feelings change.
“I want more time to process my feelings.” H is not presently pushing anything. You’ve got time.
“Either until I get to the point where I feel I want to move on or until H says he wants to work things out.” Feelings do highjack one a bit. There are other paths possible as well. No need to limit yourself to only two options.
“I guess the point is that I want to be the one to decide.” You are a decisive person. A strong and admirable trait. It serves you well. Has served you well. As such, I believe you can evolve that trait to even higher resolve.
Embracing uncertainty is a decision, an action. It takes a strong person to choose limbo, to choose the gift of time, to give time and see how things play out. All while living one’s life.
Counterintuitive. Feels wrong. Until one sees it.
You control you. Standing still is not being still. Doing nothing is doing something.
Anger and bargaining prompt feelings on needing to take some action. Any action. A “just do something to push this along one way or the other” feeling. It’s a fleeting time, let it flit. Find your convictions.
Originally Posted by marching
At least for now, H isn't pushing things. And I'm not going to bring it up. He hasn't initiated any contact since telling me he's starting therapy. He would have already had his first appointment. I haven't asked about it.
Good. Give time. Focus on you.
Originally Posted by marching
The limbo continues. But I increasingly understand why one of the mantras here is to think of it as the gift of time.
Yes, it is a gift. A gift for you. Embrace it in all its uncertainty and possibility.
One will languish in a forced limbo. One can flourish in a chosen limbo. For in the choosing, it becomes not limbo anymore.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you for your thoughtful advice, D. I don't need the items immediately and sending them would cost a lot less than buying new replacements. And they are very much mine. H has been good about giving me my stuff and sending money, so it's unlikely that he will stir up trouble if I were to ask. That said, because I've been cycling, I don't really want to talk to him right now. So I'll wait. I'll probably have more things to add to the list as I settle in more, anyway.
It's so helpful to be reminded that deciding not to take any action is also a kind of action.
In terms of physical health, things are improving. GAL is still going strong. My active social life is partly why I haven't been posting as much.
As for my emotional state, it varies. Sometimes when I am out with my friends, I am fully in the moment and enjoying myself. Sometimes I feel removed from everything and miss H. Sometimes I still can't believe that this is my life at the moment. In limbo.
Still no contact from H since he said he's starting therapy. That was almost a month ago now. I haven't reached out either. I'm scared of doing so. Not that I really know what I want to say. I'm scared of more rejection. I just want this situation to resolve itself. I reread the chapter in DR on midlife crisis to remind myself that the only to do is wait things out.
I want H to tell me that he made a huge mistake and for him to ask me what he can do to make things right. I'm embarrassed to admit this even here, despite the fact that this is what all LBS think, and the reason we come to the forum.
I am anxious. Trying to manage the anxiety by reminding myself to not look too far ahead.
I want H to tell me that he made a huge mistake and for him to ask me what he can do to make things right.
This is the goal. Until then, it is extremely important that you are focused on you and your positive changes.
The mistake most make is that they let the spouse back too easy. You have been given a gift of time. During this time, you can come up with your list of non-negotiables.
If he does ask this question, your response should be something like:
"I am not sure, what are you willing to do?" and listen.
Whatever list he gives you, you respond with "That's a good start, but it is going take much more than that."
Others here that have been through piecing may be able to elaborate on this phase more.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
This all makes sense Marching and I can relate in so many ways. I am noticing a lot more anger towards W in my feelings these days. And anger that she is not coming to that place yet.
I am continuing to have a lot of contact with W ll things considered. Did give her more space than she wanted this week. I definitely benefitted from the rest and space.
H has reached out asking if I have any news and saying that he'd like to talk. I don't have a good feeling about this. I am afraid he will ask if I feel settled in enough to start the D. In January I told him that I'd need a couple months to sort out the living situation. So, I think that's why he's asking if I have any news.
I will be strong. I will schedule the conversation for a time that works for me. I think my approach will be to be direct and say that I still don't agree with this divorce because we haven't exhausted all options for repair. I will say that half of the complaints he had about the marriage can be easily addressed. The other half doesn't make sense to me (such as his blaming me for him not clearing out the freezer), and I'll ask him to explain more. Then I'll reflect his explanation back to him both so he can see I'm listening and also so he can hear what he's saying.
I don't want to D. On one level, I can think of it as a piece of paper. But the D process will be complicated for us. I will have to give a cause. There's no no-fault divorce.
I want to see where he's at but I don't think it's where I'd like him to be.
--
Funny, my anemia is improving but it turns out the cause could be something that might require an invasive procedure. So health management is still my top priority.
I don't want any of this. I just want to bury my head in the sand.
Please don’t borrow trouble. Worrying why H is seeking a conversation is nonproductive. Fear breeds fear. It steals your time. It steals your present. (((Hugs)))
Originally Posted by marching
I think my approach will be to be direct and say that I still don't agree with this divorce because we haven't exhausted all options for repair. I will say that half of the complaints he had about the marriage can be easily addressed. The other half doesn't make sense to me (such as his blaming me for him not clearing out the freezer), and I'll ask him to explain more. Then I'll reflect his explanation back to him both so he can see I'm listening and also so he can hear what he's saying.
Do be strong. And since you have been given an option, schedule a convenient time for yourself.
I’d not take the above approach. Let H lead. H might have an entirely different conversation or reason for asking to speak with you. If he does bring up D, simply ask him what his proposal is. And listen to what he has to say.
You’ve already told him you don’t want a D. A few times. Your silence to his latest will sound a lot different to him I’d suspect. 180s are powerful when they are sincere.
Originally Posted by marching
I don't want to D.
Then don’t. Just listen to what he has to say. Let him push this thing along. Let him own it.
You don’t place barricades along the path, yet you don’t pave the road for him either.
Originally Posted by marching
my anemia is improving but it turns out the cause could be something that might require an invasive procedure. So health management is still my top priority.
Absolutely! Your top priority is you!
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Let H lead. H might have an entirely different conversation or reason for asking to speak with you.
You were absolutely right. The conversation went in a completely different direction than I had prepared for.
We talked about neither D nor R. He opened the conversation by commenting on being in limbo. I don't remember exactly what he said about it. I remember he then followed up with, "I have nothing in particular to say."
Ok buddy, but you were the one who wanted this conversation?!
We ended up talking about what we've been up to recently and giving each other TV and movie recommendations. He apologized for hurting me. He said he thinks about "the past" and wonders how I am doing everyday. He cried a bit. We talked to each other as if we were still together, referencing in-jokes and opinions on mutual friends. He told me he's gotten a lot of injuries from running too much. So he's cycling instead. He goes to bed and wakes up early. He doesn't know how to fill his time. He sounded pretty miserable. Once again, he told me he's "just trying to get by." He's going to therapy and he stopped drinking. He realized that he has a habit of avoiding his problems.
He ended the call first, suggesting that maybe it was dinner time for me. It was, and I said that I was going to meet a friend.
He misses me. That much is clear from the conversation. I dare not read much more into it. He hasn't said anything about R.
I'm only really starting to process my emotions from this call. I hadn't heard his voice in four months. The call reminded me of old times. I'm sad. I'm also angry and even a little bit disgusted by him.
I'm going to give myself some time to settle down before I think about next steps.
“ I'm only really starting to process my emotions from this call. I hadn't heard his voice in four months. The call reminded me of old times. I'm sad. I'm also angry and even a little bit disgusted by him.
I'm going to give myself some time to settle down before I think about next steps”
And I would agree with daring not to read much more into the interaction.
It’s good to connect here with you. How is your health and what have you been doing for fun?
It’s good that you spoke, and he got some stuff off his chest.
But that’s it, you should go back to radio silence.
Remember what MWD says, whatever isn’t working - stop it, and whatever is working, keep doing it.
You being complete radio silence has worked because he’s finally started to look inside and realised he is unhappy and unable to make himself feel happy. He cried. He owned his drinking issues.
The mistake most make at this stage is to start engaging with them too much, one good phone call and then ringing them and trying to fix them and make it better.
Silence is working - so continue the silence. You listened, acknowledged he feels rubbish, and that’s the end of it. He needs more time in the oven to keep simmering away.
Also, your fear that this was going to be a divorce talk is a good lesson for everyone around here. DNJ, as usual, was right. LBS are driven by fear of the unknown. They always tend towards worst possibilities and outcomes. Next time you’re afraid of something, remember what just happened. Yes, it might be bad… but most likely, you’re overthinking it and everything will work out okay.
Quote
I'm going to give myself some time to settle down before I think about next steps.
It’s excellent that you’re going to take time and think on things. We never want emotions controlling our thoughts and behaviour.
Next steps? What next steps? You don’t have to DO anything 🤷♂️ He’s thinking, you listened. That’s the end of it! I don’t know why LBS think they have to act on every conversation.
This is where GAL is super important. You can worry less about what you should do or say, or what he is thinking or doing - because you should be busy getting fit, doing hobbies, reading books and living life to the full. We only get 80 laps around the sun Marching… best not to waste it waiting for him to decide what he wants.
Well done with the conversation. You let H lead and express himself. Nothing he said was even disrespectful or boundary-worthy.
Originally Posted by marching
He goes to bed and wakes up early. He doesn't know how to fill his time. He sounded pretty miserable. Once again, he told me he's "just trying to get by." He's going to therapy and he stopped drinking. He realized that he has a habit of avoiding his problems.
Yes, depression and miserable are apparent.
It is interesting, and a positive thing, that he mentioned therapy; his over drinking; his stopping of drinking; and his habit of avoiding problems. As Kind wisely said, do not try to fix him.
If you notice, H didn’t ask for help. Well done just listening and validating.
I suspect H was also somewhat testing the waters with you. It’s been four months since speaking with you, and he didn’t come at you with divorce talk.
Continue doing what you’re doing. Live your life, decorate your home, and so on. Let H simmer away. He needs his depression and inner looking to find what is bothering him. From the conversation, he might even realize that it’s not you. So, do not place a target upon yourself.
Originally Posted by marching
He misses me. That much is clear from the conversation. I dare not read much more into it. He hasn't said anything about R.
Remember H’s path is currently driven by his emotions. Today he might feel differently.
Do keep your expectations dialled down to zero. You are wise not to read too much into what he said; look to his behaviours and only half of those.
And continue with no R talks. H didn’t bring up D or R, so follow suit. Let him bring that up first, and when he does be a non-fixer about it.
Originally Posted by marching
I'm only really starting to process my emotions from this call. I hadn't heard his voice in four months. The call reminded me of old times. I'm sad. I'm also angry and even a little bit disgusted by him.
I'm going to give myself some time to settle down before I think about next steps.
Yes, you will have some emotions to process. Feel them, acknowledge them, and let them flit.
You have received some validating feedback/proof of H moving in the right direction. His path is slow, no need to watch it too intently.
Your next steps are like before. Keep doing what you’re doing.
How is your health issue? Is it under control? Being managed?
Hope you have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to respond and post a more detailed update later, but for now I just want to share a huge development.
Wow. H said he wanted to talk again. So we did. And he says he doesn't want to D. We will not D. He realizes that he's been unstable though and is worried that he won't be able to change. We're going to talk more. I am not bringing up MC just yet. I want to give him the chance to bring it up himself.
He said a big turning point for him was late December, when I told him I'd be moving back to Country A. All the advice here on the importance of moving forward and GAL is spot on. He saw that I was going to live my life without him. In our (limited) interactions since then, he saw that I was doing great while he was miserable. It was amazing how much his words aligned with what we talk about here. He was unhappy and thought that not having me in his life would solve his problems. And then he realized the grass wasn't greener. He dated several people but couldn't forget about me. He was even more unhappy without me. He missed me constantly. He never stopped loving me. He regrets everything. He's so sorry.
I know there is a long road ahead. There's a lot to process. There are no guarantees. But I have a good feeling about this. He said a lot of things that showed me he's willing to do some hard work. Whatever happens, I know I am strong and that I will be awesome no matter what.
Think of your next steps like investing. If you go for the quick pay off here, you’re going to end up with nothing.
Every bit of time and effort you invest now in doing this slowly and carefully, will pay dividends for many years to come.
The veterans are totally right here. There’s a hell of a lot of personal development he needs to do before this is going to be okay. You need to tread carefully and slowly, and allow those things to be identified and acknowledged and repaired.
You need to cross back over the river from the divorce side to the marriage side. Currently, there’s a single strand of cotton as a bridge. Before you put too much weight on it, maybe build a strong bridge using concrete and steel.
And know that he has to do the majority of the building works himself. You can’t do it for him.
And know that he has to do the majority of the building works himself. You can’t do it for him.
Words are just words. You want to see him taking action. Observe his behavior. Be skeptical. Treat him like a squirrel. No sudden movements from you. This will take some time.
One phrase that sticks in my mind is "It is not that easy anymore"... IE your response for him to just come back without doing the real work.
Working on your personal growth is still important. Enjoying your "free time" is also important.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Marching, I hope you are doing Ok. Reading your posts was very helpful for me in the past months and encouraged me to start posting here as well. It’s been helpful and I thank you for that.
Hello! Wow. Time passes so quickly. And yet the spring feels like a lifetime ago. So much has happened.
Thanks so much for asking for checking in.
Things are going really, really well.
Instead of divorce lawyers, we're working with an immigration lawyer now. We're on the tail end of wrapping up a big international move!
H and I now live together in a new apartment in my city. First, he came to visit. Now he's moved here. We have been in excellent MC for almost half a year now. H says he doesn't know what he was trying to achieve last year when he said he wanted to D. He is so remorseful. He realizes that he went off the rails. He's been on medication for some mental health issues. It helps a lot. He's also looking for a good IC. He's taking responsibility. He's so grateful for the second chance.
I had a procedure a few months ago and my health is much improved.
I'm so glad to have received the support this board provided. GAL, working on myself—I don't think our marriage would be improving as well as it is without it.
Thanks for dropping in and updating. Wow. A lot has happened.
I’m glad to hear your procedure went well and yielded much improvement.
It very much sounds like H has made positive steps. An awakening. Remorseful. Realization. Taking accountability and responsibility. Even acknowledging and accepting medication. That’s quite the positive steps indeed.
Continue to go slow. H has to get use to his new skin. It will take a good while, 18-24 months (ish), for him to truly feel comfortable.
Originally Posted by marching
H says he doesn't know what he was trying to achieve last year when he said he wanted to D.
Yes. And that’s actually a positive indicator of some deep internal change / alteration. It’s such a shift, such a paradigm shift, that once which he saw clearly, once was so desired, once was so driven for, is now literally unseeable and unrecognizable. In time, and as H heals, this will likely be revealed to him. Part of becoming comfortable in his own skin. H will so fear judgement from you and others regarding his past path and choices. In time, his “reasons” for such past behaviours will likely surface, and they likely will not make sense, even to him. That’s ok. Another positive indicator by the way, H not being able to make sense of previous “why” he did stuff. It’s part of the his path to acceptance and wholeness.
Be supportive. Be the lighthouse.
And congratulations on the new apartment.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I'm so glad to have received the support this board provided. GAL, working on myself—I don't think our marriage would be improving as well as it is without it.
If you get a chance, would love to hear a detailed "What changes in your behavior worked".
HUGS
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
marching, glad to hear things have turned around in your situation! Remember, always be DBing. I highly suggest googling "self-differentiation in marriage".
M(53), W(54),D(19) M-23, T-25 Bomb Drop - Dec.23, 2017 Ring and Piecing since March 2018
Hi everyone. Popping on here to say that things are still going well. By that, I don't mean that things aren't hard sometimes. H is still struggling with depression and anxiety. And I recently had some triggers that put me in a low mood for a week or so. But now we talk about. We can have really difficult conversations, even without the MC. H is able to listen a lot better than before. The medication, IC, and MC have helped him accept his behavior and take responsibility for it. When we first starting getting back together, he sometimes struggled to hear me explain my feelings, how he hurt me, and it became all about him: his guilt, his being a bad person, his hopelessness. But now he listens and apologizes and tells me he loves me. He has hope that things can change for the better. Things have already changed for the better. I'm really proud of him.
He's also noticed my changes. My own anxiety has calmed down a lot. His own low moods don't affect me the way they did before. I give him the space to process his feelings and let him know that we can talk whenever he wants to. Eventually we do. I used to want to achieve that kind of resolution really quickly in the past. He sees how strong I am, how much I take care of myself. I live my life with a lot more intention now.
Hang in there, everyone. Take it one day at a time. Be the best version of yourself. Do it for you.
This is so encouraging to read. I will have to go back and read your full story. My Husband is back home for the last four months but still very rough right now. Thank you for posting the positives for us to see. Good luck.
Quick update. Things are going well. H is more and more like his old self. Light-hearted, witty, playful. We went on a spontaneous camping trip over the weekend. He’s taken a lot more initiative, proposing ideas for activities to do and dishes to make. It’s incredible that we’re here. I feel much more at ease. The camping trip was beautiful. Just the two of us talking and talking and talking in each other’s arms.
I wouldn’t say we’re fully reconciled yet, though. H is still wrestling with his guilt. It puts a distance between us sometimes.
Is anyone watching the show Dark Matter? It’s essentially about MLC, but wrapped up in a bonkers sci-fi story. It was fascinating to watch it with H. The first night we watched it, H got quiet and reflective. As we got ready for bed, he apologized again. He related to the anti-hero, a man who regrets leaving the love of his life. H wishes he had never cheated on me, had never left me.
As for me, I’ve gotten to a place where I have not only forgiven H, but also the OW. I actually feel sad for this person, someone I once considered a friend. I don’t know when this happened, exactly. At some point a few months ago, I realized that I had not thought about OW for a while. I was too busy living my own life. And now I even hope that she heals from whatever led her to behave in the way she did.
If I’m honest, I sometimes wish H would hurry up and figure his stuff out already. Then I reread the chapters in DB about depression and MLC and remind myself that H has to do this at his own pace. The best thing I can do, I’ve decided, is to not fall into my old ways of wanting to fix everything. I’ve been tempted to recommend topics for him to bring up in his IC. Overbearing, I know! It’s true, you never stop DBing, and it’s paramount to keep working on yourself. Not just because it’s better for the relationship, but also just for your own sanity (don’t take on what isn’t your cross to bear!).
Jessieht, just want to send you some validation and encouragement. The first six months or so of living with H again was REALLY hard. H was too depressed and anxious to be a fully present partner. As MWD says (forgot if it was in DB or one of the essays on this site), you will need to get your goodies elsewhere. I continued to rely on friends and dug deep into my hobbies. I wish I had done this even more, actually. Because there were times when I felt really weighed down by H’s mood and I resented having to deal with Aloof and Grumpy H when he was the one who hurt me and he should be the one bending over backwards to make my life as easy as possible. Needless to say, this mindset doesn’t help anyone.
It makes total sense to me that your H’s return has been rough, too. Hang in there. Keep doing your own thing. Focus on your healing.
I’m quite a sci-fi guy. I’m looked up Dark Matter and also found another Dark Matter show from a few years ago which also sounds interesting. So, two new shows added to my list.
I love hearing that things are going well. The camping trip sounded wonderful. And H’s initiating and proposing ideas are all good positive indicators and steps.
Keep walking the path. You well know H is still some times on his timeline. Kind of unfair having to do the loin’s share, I get it. It takes a while for them to feel comfortable in their skin and to come around to our forgiveness and their own. The latter likely feeling as their most insurmountable obstacle.
Most wise words to not take on a cross which isn’t your’s to bear.
Have a great day dear marching. I loved reading your update.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi, Marching. It was so great to read your update. I'm a little bit earlier in the piecing and/or reconciliation process, also with some MLC + depression or anxiety involved, and it is comforting to hear some similarities. My W is doing better communicating what she wants, initiating things for us to do together, and seemingly struggling with a bit of "I feel bad for pulling the D lever to try and address what I'm experiencing". I can relate to wanting a spouse to step up the pace and, much like you, remind myself that it will take the time it must. And, we can't lose the hard-won gains we've made in our growth, development, and GALing.
When our MC asked me to talk a bit about why W should be confident that I wouldn't drift back into previous behaviors I may have engaged in that contributed to our marital challenges, I could see her surprise when I said "Well, I've made the changes because I'm a better person for re-shaping my behaviors and habits for my betterment and to be a better relationship partner for anyone who I could meet when I expected W could D me". We are "the prize" and worth sharing a relationship with. Best wishes back to you and I look forward to your next update.
Thank you so much. my h starts to do better and then it cycles back. this last month has been really hard with his anger. He will have fits of absolute rage and then turn into basically a 6 year old boy that is trying to make me happy like he would his mother. He has told me that he realizes that he only focuses on the negative of me. he has been home for about 11 months now. it is nice to read peoples stories that are a bit ahead of me so I can learn from their successes and mistakes. Glad you all are still moving forward.
