Don’t be too harsh on yourself. Lock this experience in the memory bank so that next time it occurs you can think to yourself “I’ve seen this BS before, I’m not falling for it.”
The only way to learn how to walk is to fall over a few times. You’re doing great 👍
In terms of getting sucked into a discussion about your changes being temporary, you need to have some standard lines in your head that you’ve practiced and have ready to go.
Next time he says he thinks your changes are temporary, how about these:
a) “Hahahaha… You can believe it or not, I couldn’t give two sh**s what you think. My changes are for me 🤷♂️” b) “Don’t worry, it won’t be you that benefits from the new and improved me 😉” c) “Omg yawn-fest, this conversation is so boring, I’ve got better things to do. I’m going out!”
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
That’s different than “I don’t want to be here”, in my opinion. True it’s not the grand committed statement of wanting to work things out. However, that’s not how these situations go. It took a while for her to stray and decide to want to leave, it takes a while for that to unwind. It starts with a whisper of doubt. The tiny voice and realization of what they might just be tossing away.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
A great many ideas of divorce busting pertain to dealing with our emotionally distance spouse. And there is almost always a directed hurtful and disrespectful display from our spouse too.
Kids are usually collateral damage during bomb drop and its aftermath. And sometimes they are even targeted, not merely just within the blast radius, rather blasted directly.
Divorce busting encourages self control, realization of what one truly can control, and fosters accountability and self respect. Just a few of the tenets of DBing. Principles of life that kids certainly do benefit from.
A lot of situations the kids are still wanted by both parents. In some cases kids are weaponized and become pawns in a battle they want nothing to do with. And in some cases, like my own, kids are “divorced” from their own parent. Just tossed aside.
I’m a big proponent of gently steering children towards understanding, compassion, empathy, acceptance, and forgiveness. Depending upon the situation, and how inquisitive the youngsters are, depends on how much needs to be, or should be, shared. It’s a tricky landscape, especially when the LBS is freshly hurt, like the kids are.
I was particularly fortunate to find forgiveness rather quickly, along with understanding and compassion. I encouraged those lessons with my kids, having many conversations with them. And I’m a pretty hopeful empathic optimistic guy, so they got lots of that too.
Like I said, I was fortunate with what was placed in my path after bomb drop. A lot of fantastic information and lessons blessed upon me.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I truly believe that God brought me to this marriage saving site as a gift when I was weary and carrying the heavy burden of my W request for a divorce. This was his way of teaching me to deal with my pain and how how I found rest for my soul. If I didn’t act on reading DR and GAL, detaching, doing a 180 things wouldn’t have gotten better. I’m definitely not out of the woods, but definitely in a better place and definitely a better person. I also know my work in improving myself is something that I have to work on the rest of my life if I want to be the person I want to be.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Some people would say as long as their spouse is fooling around, they are not interested in working things out.
Other people would say, "You know what? I'm ok being part of a three way relationship. I'm ok waiting this out regardless of what other people think."
Still other people would have yet a completely different take on this situation. There are as many people as there are opinions.
The worst thing anyone can do, IMHO, is to take a survey. So what do you do instead?
Don't worry about anything or anyone else's opinions, mine included.
Figure out what YOU want.
Meditate.
Pray for guidance.
Sit quietly, trusting that the answers will come.
Then act accordingly.
You need to be completely true to yourself, AS YOU ARE TODAY, and when it's time to take any action do so FREE FROM FEAR.
What do I mean, AS YOU ARE TODAY: * grief changes you * betrayal changes you and the dynamic of your relationship * you know who you were when you were single * you know who you were in your marriage * figure out who you are NOW, post BD
THE ONLY WAY to figure that out is to put in the work: quiet, peace, prayer/meditation.
Deep work which requires time, effort and patience.
I strongly suggest you read the archives and study the women who posted here: Sotto, Cat04, Grace, Rosalinda, to name a very few.
Read and keep re-reading the DR MLC chapter, if you think that an MLC is what's going on with your husband.
DO understand that he is not on your team at the moment, so treat him accordingly. What do I mean:
* Don't play games - don't be deliberately vague to make him jealous. That's baby stuff and stupid. He doesn't need to know any details about where you're going or who you're having dinner with if you're going out, but keep it vague because he's no longer in the circle of trust. Don't keep it vague because you're hoping for a reaction; that will come back and bite you in the @$$ every time.
* Snarky may feel good in the moment, but doesn't necessarily further your goals. In other words - don't get into a race to the bottom. Does anyone really want to win a race to the bottom? If you're in that race, and you win, what have you actually gained? My experience is it's much better to be kind, compassionate, yet firm and no-nonsense, striving to always take the high road.
Plus, bonus points because it infuriates the hell out of the spouse - hey I'm no saint - I said striving to take the high road. We're allowed to enjoy watching them squirm from time to time, given what we're put through.
That aside, by taking the high road you will get respect. They may not show it or say it in the moment, but trust me, you will get validation on this down the road. It's never ever wrong to take the high road while refusing to be a Persian carpet for someone to wipe their dirty shoes on as they walk all over you towards the door, or try to turn the door into a revolving one.
* DO understand that it's ok to listen, validate and respond with, "Thank you for talking with me about where you're at. I'm not ready to respond yet, as you've given me a lot to process and think about. I'll let you know when I've thought about this some more." Wash, rinse and repeat that as often as necessary ... see my next point.
* DO not be pushed into a conversation that could be detrimental to your end goal, BUT before you can even know what your end goal is YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT IT IS YOU WANT and WHAT YOUR PERSONAL BOUNDARIES/DEALBREAKERS ARE.
* DO be honest, but non-committal until you know what you want.
* DO treat him like you'd treat a nosy co-worker who wants access to more information about your personal life than they have a right to know. Be polite, but you owe zero explanations that you don't want to give. This is hard to do if you don't know what your personal boundaries are. How can you uphold them if you haven't spent time really working on knowing what those boundaries are?
* DO understand that you deserve someone who loves you as much as you love them, is as honest, loyal and loving as you are. Is that your husband? Is he capable of that level of accountability, selflessness, honesty and loyalty? Does that remain to be seen? If he's truly in a MLC, it takes much longer than a few weeks or months to come out of that, with or without another party in the mix.
But most importantly, do YOUR work. In my experience, it took months to get my mind and heart to really separate myself mentally from my marriage, my husband, my family so that I was just me, Bttrfly, envisioning my life moving forward, what my core values were post BD, how I wanted to embody them regardless of the outcome of my marriage, what kind of relationships I wanted with friends, family, co-workers, even strangers. By doing that work, and doing it with vigilance and dedication, the rest became crystal clear.
This is the real work, and within that work are the real answers to any newcomers' questions.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
You're constantly validating why she left, every single time you engage with her the same old way. For the sake of yourself and any hope you have of a recon down the road, STOP IT.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I want you to think long and hard about your attitude and tone towards her. IF she hits bottom, IF she decides she wants to turn her life around, WHY would she come to you if you lead with self-righteousness, anger, ultimatums, moral superiority, control? She'll have enough guilt, shame and remorse without you adding to it. In fact, guilt, shame and remorse often keeps someone in active addiction long past the time when they actually do want to seek recovery. Don't add to that stumbling block. At the very least, it's not kind, nor is it compassionate.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I see a lot of myself in people who arrive here. Weak, scared, living in fear, and allowing themselves to be treated like sh** because they’re desperate to save a marriage. An over riding principle of DBing is that what you did before didn’t work, so you have to try something new. For me, that something new that people need is self respect, strength - and helping them to realize they can’t manipulate or engineer their partner into seeing what they want them to see.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
I absolutely believe you need to be getting professional help with managing your emotions on days when you are down. We can’t do that for you here. We can identify what we think is going on, and how you should DB it, but this really needs some counselling to assist with getting past these difficult days without falling into old patterns.
Originally Posted by Kind18
When people say on this site “drop the rope”, it means “stop trying to analyse, control, manipulate or fix things.” Any attempts to do so will just cause you grief and potentially make reconciliation less likely.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Would you say that it is fine to congratulate W on special occasions?
Originally Posted by Kind18
Personally, I wouldn’t advocate that at all, but I’m sure some people may disagree.
One way ticket to the friend zone.
This is a common theme on this site atm. Lots of people who should be DBing, GALing, digging deep on their personal flaws with IC, and becoming a new and improved, positive person who is attractive to be around and who doesn’t define themselves through their partner or relationship.
Instead, there’s lots of people coming here just seeking validation on forcing interaction “can I ask her on a date to discuss kids, can I send him a Christmas card, he sent a message with an xx at the end, are we getting back together?”
I don’t wish to hijack your thread TMS, but this DB website isn’t to seek advice on every single interaction and message and call. It’s about a change in thinking, it’s about correcting your own flaws with professional help, it’s about growing to be happy whether or not you’re in a relationship, it’s about ignoring them completely and taking a good, long, hard look in the mirror and accepting your only job is to repair your side of the fence and then waiting to see if they decide to fix their side.
Temperature checks, R discussions, manipulating to spend time with them, see them, talk about stuff, find out through friends what they’ve been up to, make them see you’ve changed… it’s all a ticket to pain and grief, and less likely to lead to reconciliation.
Everyone’s journey through DBing is different. For me, that journey was:
1. Learning how to show empathy better 2. Accepting that I made poor choices and rushed choosing a partner 3. Delving into why an unexpected bomb day destroyed me so much, and discovering with an IC I wanted to work on my emotional resilience 4. Realizing my ex had significant mental health challenges which I thought I could fix but which were way beyond my understanding 5. Accepting I’d been mentally abused during my relationship, but that I’d allowed it (and working out what I’d do in the future to have enough self respect to never let someone treat me like that ever again) 6. Accepting that some relationships are, simply, unhealthy
How did I do this? By getting professional help, by completely cutting off my ex while I worked through it.
My journey ended with me deciding she’s a manipulative, horrible person and me realizing I’m actually the catch here. 18 months post bomb day I entered a wonderful relationship with a NORMAL person, and I’m grateful every day that I have my self worth and respect back. I also know now if my current relationship ends one day, I’ll be totally fine 👍
What’s my point?
Well, I guess my point is that this amazing journey to the other side that I took would never have happened if I hadn’t dropped the rope. You can’t be attached, following, analyzing, going for dates, having relationship talks, sending birthday gifts while simultaneously doing the personal development deep dives required.
DBing really is simple if you look at it holistically. You stop being butt hurt, sad, manipulative and focusing outward. You turn completely into yourself and dig/discover like you’ve never done before, until you have your own needs/wants/personal flaws and aspirations sorted. And once that’s done and you look outside again.
Maybe your spouse likes what they see and looks back in.
And so, I guess to answer your one line question, no - don’t send her a birthday card 🤣 It’s a waste of time, when you could be doing much more important things.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
