Boundaries and Moving Forward

[bttrfly]

40 you're going to do what you want regardless of what anyone says, and that's absolutely your right and prerogative. Super G and K have made some excellent points for you to factor in as you're making a decision.

I was talking to a friend this morning who cited an article which states that people should refrain from dating for 18 months post D.

Read the board. Specifically this forum will give you good insight into what happens when people rush from D to a new relationship.

What caught my attention and what I would want clarification on is how much time elapsed between her ending her abusive marriage and starting up dating the abusive BF, and again how much time elapsed between her ending that, moving to your neighborhood and starting the dating dance with you. The answers will give you some more information upon which to base your decisions.

Yeah, anyone our age who hasn't been in a cryogenic freeze for 30 years has baggage. The point is, are we talking carry on, or full blown check in and waayyyyyy over the legal weight limit so the plane's gonna go down on take off.

I'm in no way saying she's responsible for being abused. I am saying she's the common denominator in both those relationships. Re-read K's post above.

She's not the only fish in the sea. She's telling you she's not ready for a relationship, which is insightful on her part. Pay attention to that. Pay very very close attention to that. Re-read G's post above.

Go on your long business trip; keep all your options - and your eyes - wide open, is my best advice.

[Mach40]

so to be clear, she's fresh out of two abusive relationships?

Yes..

[Mach40]

This woman is clearly not ready for a relationship which she says.

Should you continue? Well, if you want to be just friends and not have any expectations of anything more , then be a friend. If you are hoping for something romantic? I would honestly step away. You’ll be left with unbent expectations.

If she said to you nothing will ever happen romantically, but she wants to continue as you are, platonically, would you want to ?

I think being her neighbor and someone to hang out with is fine. We both have similar interests, and to just shut that down would be not cool.
So, I will take it as a friend and just deal with the fact she is not ready, and told me, but likes to hang out with me.
I will not stop looking for other women, but to be honest, I am not ready and I definitely see it now.
I have a few guy friends, very few as I am never here to really do things with people. My family always has a priority as it should, when home.

[Mach40]

40 you're going to do what you want regardless of what anyone says, and that's absolutely your right and prerogative. Super G and K have made some excellent points for you to factor in as you're making a decision.

I was talking to a friend this morning who cited an article which states that people should refrain from dating for 18 months post D.

Read the board. Specifically this forum will give you good insight into what happens when people rush from D to a new relationship.

What caught my attention and what I would want clarification on is how much time elapsed between her ending her abusive marriage and starting up dating the abusive BF, and again how much time elapsed between her ending that, moving to your neighborhood and starting the dating dance with you. The answers will give you some more information upon which to base your decisions.

Yeah, anyone our age who hasn't been in a cryogenic freeze for 30 years has baggage. The point is, are we talking carry on, or full blown check in and waayyyyyy over the legal weight limit so the plane's gonna go down on take off.

I'm in no way saying she's responsible for being abused. I am saying she's the common denominator in both those relationships. Re-read K's post above.

She's not the only fish in the sea. She's telling you she's not ready for a relationship, which is insightful on her part. Pay attention to that. Pay very very close attention to that. Re-read G's post above.

Go on your long business trip; keep all your options - and your eyes - wide open, is my best advice.

Hey, I truly do read and take notes..
I know she left the marriage a little over 4 years ago. So, with her state Divorce was within 6 months due to circumstance. Police reports, etc, I imagine the Judge did it quick..
Second relationship was to be honest, about 2 years after. Hard to honestly nail it down. I know little of it.
It may have been a rebound gone bad. I can not tell you specifics.
Moving to my neighborhood was due to better , bigger home, location. Not to get away from the guy. Its not very far away.
Her telling me is great. She is being honest. Cant ask for much more.
When I left for this travel job, we had some drinks the night before I left, had a good time, just talking about stuff in general.. Running out of stuff to talk about, lol.
But, she did say, she really enjoyed time together. And not sure why, but did say she renewed her lease on the house.
On a side note, I need to reiterate, I am person that for many years was always in a rush to meet and move with a women. That is due to the Navy and travel. Never had the luxury of being settled in one area for long at all.. So, I am a shaker and a mover. Thats one reason I excelled at Recruiting and other similar jobs in the Navy.
Here is something I need to ask. Since she told me she is not ready, being honest, yet wants to hang out is that strictly going to be a friendship. She damn well knows what mine were.

[bttrfly]

that is a question for you to ask her, otherwise it's merely speculation on our part.

[DonH]

Okay, so… like with all or at least most of the situations here all we have to go on is the written word that is reported here by half the people involved. We are not there to see body language. We are not able to see responses or interactions. So it’s anywhere from a gut reaction to an educated guess for us.

First and foremost I think you need to pay attention to what she does and not just what she says. I see a woman wanting to spend time with you and enjoying when she does. Yet she’s afraid to risk anything more. I honestly think that’s a lot of it. Of course this could be her reaction to you not being sure and not pursuing her.

I think I yelled at my ipad when I read “she wants to take things slow” OMG, take things slow? How much slower can you two go. You’ve been dancing around safe dating, what, near 10 times over 8 weeks? No kisses, no hand holding, no snuggling. How much slower can you go without being stopped?

So just pay attention to what she does. I think many in the above 40 age range are broken anyhow but I see signs of it with her. It looks like others do as well. If it were me I’d totally drop all expectation and not pursuit at all. If you just moved out of state that may take care of itself. Something is just odd about this whole sitch. Of course that’s the sum of both people involved. Her actions could be as much about reactions to you. But saying she wants to go any slower than the non-existent pace tells me she’s either not interested and afraid to tell you that or thinks she could be interested and is afraid to tell you that. Either way I don’t think she’s being fully honest about how she really feels. Of course this too means she’s not ready to date - which she has admitted to. I’d believe that from her.

[Mach40]

Thanks Don. Dont yell at the iPad, it is just a tool..
The only other thing she beside going slow was " Have patience with me".
After two crappy relationships. Physical Abuse is just wrong, and cant be easily let go..
I will pay attention to what she does.
If she wants to be frank with me, she should. I think she and I have pretty much hashed that out just in basic conversation.
If she isnt interested in me, she has a strange way of telling to me to go away. She should just do it , if that is the case.. She either wants to be a friend or nothing at all is my take. But, it needs to be spoken straight up. Spending time with the opposite sex is maybe something she really likes to fell more a woman, alive etc, that her girlfriends dont give her. Little Selfish at my expense? Pure speculation.
Now, I will say, women sometimes dont get their message across to where a man truly understand it.. We may not be able to read minds, but we do get/understand pointed questions and answers.
I need to be frank when I get back and just ask straight up, friends? Or am I something you want to keep around for future use? Being funny with that last one.

[Spiral]

I don't feel qualified to offer anyone relationship advice. But there are plenty of women out there looking and eager for a long term relationship. I think that you should try to find one of those women and keep looking until you. When a woman is incredibly enthusiastic about seeing you, it's amazing. I don't think you should settle for anything less. Also, if you want to meet women, just start talking to as many women as you can in real life. Some will be interested. Chase the interested ones. I wasted a lot of time not following the foregoing advice.

[BL42]

Mach40,

So, Saturday went well. No sex, no kissing, just came to a solid understanding of what the heck is going on..

Should you continue? Well, if you want to be just friends and not have any expectations of anything more , then be a friend. If you are hoping for something romantic? I would honestly step away. You’ll be left with unbent expectations.

What went well about it? I guess it depends on your expectations and hopes. Be completely honest with yourself and decide are you happy being friends or do you want more?

She was married, physically abusive husband. Then moved away to my area of operations, and dated someone who was abusive too. WTH guys, why?

so to be clear, she's fresh out of two abusive relationships?

Yes..

I obviously don't know this woman at all, and have no way to tell whether she was abused by her ExH or not. What I do know for a fact is you're only getting one side of the story. And what I've learned through my own situation and reading hundreds on this site is that the it's incredibly common for the WAS to exaggerate and outright lie about their Ex to justify the D and gain sympathy with the next person. Even going so far in some cases as false police reports. Therefore I've become a bit skeptical with those stories. If she was abused that's absolutely awful and there is no excuse for it. But keep in mind there's her side of the story, his side, and the actual truth. Just know you're only hearing one version - don't necessarily take it as gospel and don't let that sympathy you feel lead you to be her white knight and fix her. Maybe I'm biased and jaded due to my own sitch, so take it for what it is.

Why does someone get into two abusive relationships in a row? Probably because they grew up in a household where abuse was normalized and they don't have the normal radar to avoid those guys. (Look, I suppose it could happen to anyone once, but twice implies some issues).

And this sometimes means that a normal relationship without drama is not attractive to them. She probably has issues she should be working through with therapy. Probably best for you to just stay in the friend zone and focus your dating efforts elsewhere. Don't try to be the white knight.

Good advice from kml.

So, she is not looking for someone now. But, she said she really wants to spend time with me, enjoys having me over to her place, drinking wine and such, just wants to slow it down... I am like, hmm.. Orange flag. Not quite red..

I think I yelled at my ipad when I read “she wants to take things slow” OMG, take things slow? How much slower can you two go. You’ve been dancing around safe dating, what, near 10 times over 8 weeks? No kisses, no hand holding, no snuggling. How much slower can you go without being stopped?

I'm with DonH here....slow it down? Not sure it could go slower.

So, I know what most will say here, and bail on her and just keep in touch..

I think being her neighbor and someone to hang out with is fine. We both have similar interests, and to just shut that down would be not cool.

So Mach40, when you use the phrase "bail on her" and say "to just shut that down would be not cool"...it comes across to me as if you feel some attachment or obligation to her. You're not in a relationship. You've never kissed romantically. There's nothing wrong with saying you don't want to be just friends.

Honestly? I think it's good you're away for work for a good period of time. It'll create space. Curious...will the two of you be in touch in the meantime via phone?

There are a few things I really find refreshing with this woman. Family, Italian family values, smart, great career, independent, goal oriented, and pretty good looking to boot.

So, I will take it as a friend and just deal with the fact she is not ready, and told me, but likes to hang out with me.

It sounds to me like you're still thinking of her as a potentially romantic partner/LTR, and do have expectations, and are hoping the friends thing will develop into something more. Only you can know that for sure, but be honest with yourself.

I will not stop looking for other women, but to be honest, I am not ready and I definitely see it now.

Three questions:
1) Why do you think you're not ready? What specifically makes you think that?
2) If you're not ready, why would you continue looking for other women?
3) If she did want something romantic now would you all of a sudden be ready?

I have a few guy friends, very few as I am never here to really do things with people.

I personally think if you're really not ready to date you should focus on meeting and hanging out with other guys, not spending your time being friends with a woman you had hoped would be more.

[Mach40]

Hey BL42,
Thanks for all that. One thing quickly, I read the news article when he was arrested and what he had done on one incident.. Threw a chair at her, and choked her.. That was the news article from the court hearings..Just one incident. So, I tend to believe what she said.
Three questions:
1) Why do you think you're not ready? What specifically makes you think that?
I feel I was moving to fast, and since there is a bit of rejection, it gave me a taste of something I am not ready to deal with. Sure it wasnt a full on relationship and we broke up, but it let me know, since she isnt ready and she stated that, I took it as rejection.. Did not like it. Thats why.
2) If you're not ready, why would you continue looking for other women?
I am looking just to look, as it is good for me. Not going to shut down and sit inside.
Like Spiral said, I may find someone that wants to go after me, and that would make me feel good too, boost my spirits in regards to relationship. Does that make sense?
3) If she did want something romantic now would you all of a sudden be ready?
Good question.. If she started pursuing me and not be as guarded, yes. But, we just seem to click when around each other.. Hard to explain.. Maybe the part about clicking around each other is something she notices too. Maybe, just speculating, she is analyzing. She is very intelligent and has had 2 bad past relationships.