It's been awhile and I can see big changes have occurred since our entire forum has now been archived…lol. Was it something we said??
So... a brief update... as I had mentioned in the past... OW has been battling a significant illness for the entire time XH has known her. Sadly it all came to an end a week ago when she passed away at the palliative care unit of our local hospital. XH texted me that morning so I pulled our kids from school and took them over to the hospital to say goodbye to her (their choice) and then spent the rest of the day on a little road trip with D15 while S15 decided just to go home and isolate in his room. He and his sister had very different reactions to the news. D15 was sad and wanted to spend time with me. S15 was sad but also mad. He spent an extra day with me before going to his dad's and expressed his anger on the drive over saying "I hate going back and forth between houses and now the reason for that has left." Yikes. I didn't really know how to address it except to say that his dad and my relationship was in trouble long before OW showed up and she wasn't the reason his dad left, she was just the way he chose to do it. I don't know if that helped him or not but it was the best I could come up with at the time.
Strangely, I think my kids have handled her death better than I have. I’ve experienced more emotions than I anticipated and am still dealing with them to be honest. I am sad for XH and for OW's kids and my kids and even more sad for OW who did not deserve to die at the age of 41. I am also sad for myself as I had finally gotten past all of this and, since her death, have been revisiting so much of it in my mind again. Case in point... XH and my kids left on a two-week trip to Europe today...the very same trip he and I had always planned to take them on together. As sad as that makes me, I am happy for my kids. Not just because they get to go but also because the XH I was married to would have taken off to Europe on his own for a month and left the kids with me. This new version of XH is forking over the money to take both of them and is only going for two weeks (due to cost as well as minimizing missed school time). They deserve to have a dad who will do that for them so I am so thankful they finally have that. And I know that I will take them on a trip soon as well. It’s just a shame they will never get to experience any of those things with both of us at the same time. OW or no OW…maybe it was just never meant to be.
Life for me day to day hasn’t changed too much except I think my sister, BIL and I have finally come to terms with the fact that the pandemic and the aftermath have altered our house-building plans to the extent that it now feels like too much of a financial (and emotional) risk to continue. Luckily we haven’t invested too much money beyond the initial money spent on the property. Lots of time and energy spent planning, particularly on my BIL’s part, to get to this point though so it does feel like we failed in some ways and wasted a lot of time that could have been spent on other things. We’re leaving for Croatia in a few weeks so are going to wait until we get back to make a final decision but as far as I am concerned, the writing is on the wall. I just want to sell the property so I can get most of my money back and then buy a house of my own. I am getting quite tired of living in my sister’s guestroom. Thankfully, there are a ton of houses with suites being built around here which is what I would need to have my own home AND live the lifestyle to which I have become accustomed. I love travelling just too darn much and I don’t want to give that up.
I have not been dating at all. I still have a couple of dating apps on my phone but haven’t been using them. Every time I think about jumping back into it, it just feels like too much effort… and too much of a risk given my responsibilities in other areas of my life. I am keenly aware time is passing by quickly though and my odds of finding a partner with whom to spend the last third of my life (fingers crossed I make it that far), is diminishing daily so I feel the pressure once in awhile. Anyway…I could write a whole lot more but I really just wanted to give a bit of an update and say hi to the people from my “era” who are still visiting the forum from time to time. I think of you often and am still very grateful to have found all of you. Don’t think I could have done as well as I have these last few years if I hadn’t.
I don’t know if anyone is reading my thread anymore…seems like most of the people who came here when I was going through my divorce are no longer here. I’ve been pretty preoccupied with thoughts lately and just feeling the need to tell them to people who will get what I’m talking about. OW’s recent passing has prompted a lot of self reflection and thoughts about grief in its many forms. XH’s mom made a comment to me the other night that maybe her son will now have some idea about what he put me through four and a half years ago. Initially, I kind of agreed with her and then, after much thought, I realized that what he is going through is only a piece of what I went through. There are some similarities for sure but there are many differences as well.
The similarities are that both of us lost our partners. Both of us had the life we thought we would have ripped away from us by circumstances beyond our control. We both have had to accept that the life we had is now over and must move forward and build a new life. But that is where the similarities end and where the grief and the grieving process are quite different.
If someone had asked me before I went through this which was worse… having your spouse leave you for another person or having them die, I would have chosen the latter, no doubt. I would have said that someone dying is so much worse than having them leave…and it is…for the person who died…because they don’t get to live anymore. But for the person left behind…not so much. When someone dies, support for the grieving spouse is automatic. People rally around and tell you how bad they feel for you. They send you cards and flowers and bring you food. They talk about how wonderful you and your spouse were as a couple and share all of the good memories they have of your partner and of the two of you together. They hold a “celebration of life” and you are surrounded by the people who loved your partner and who loved you as a couple. You can still wear your wedding ring and when you look at it, it gives you comfort to know that you loved and were loved…until death parted you. The pictures on your wall remain on your wall. You look at them and are reminded of the time you spent together and you draw strength from those memories. Contrast that experience with that of being cheated on and left abruptly.
Initially, you get some support from the people closest to you but it is not the same. No one sends you cards or flowers or brings you food. The people who do show up don’t talk about how wonderful you were as a couple and share good memories of your spouse. Instead, they search their memory banks for memories that indicate the opposite and share those with you. They tell you that you are better off without them. They don’t understand why you are grieving the loss of someone who betrayed you in such a hurtful way. They quickly tire of your sadness and want you to be happy you weren’t stuck in the marriage longer than you were.
You look down at your wedding ring…the one you were so proud to wear…and you feel like a fraud and a weak person because you are still wearing it. The pictures on the wall that once meant so much are now a source of pain and confusion. You don’t want to take them down because in your heart you are still married but leaving them up seems wrong too. When you go back in time and look at photographs of your life together, you don’t look at them in the same way. You don’t smile over the happy memories. Instead, you zero in on the face of your absent spouse and look for signs in their expression that they were unhappy or angry and wonder how you could have missed it. You look at the dates and relate them to the affair. Pictures of our family trip to Mexico. Yep…he was cheating on me then. My 50th birthday. Yes…cheating on me then. Pictures out at a pub with their cousins a month before BD. Yes…then too. All of your good memories…the ones that would comfort you had your spouse died…are now tainted and called into question. Was ANY OF IT ever real?
And then there is the shame and the hit to your self esteem. These are not feelings that occur when your loved one dies. You don’t question your intelligence or the faith you had in the other person. You don’t feel the shame of being so trusting of someone who was so “obviously” untrustworthy. You don’t look in the mirror and wonder what is wrong with you that someone you loved so much would just walk away with barely a backwards glance. You don’t feel unlovable or unworthy. You don’t question if anyone would ever be attracted to you again. These questions are only asked by the person who was left behind by choice, not by chance.
Then there is the aftermath when you have children who keep you connected. You have to watch your spouse move on and build a life with someone else. In my case, my H immediately started living with OW out in the open full time. Before the ink was dry on our separation agreement, they got engaged and bought a house. They had family pictures taken with our kids and her kids and filled up their walls with pictures as if they were trying to convince other people it was them who had been together for 13 years and that I had never existed. I had to hand my kids over every other week for a week at a time and upon their return, listen to them talk about their “brother” and “nana” and “papa - people I didn’t know and who didn’t know me. And every time I heard about these people, I had to plaster a smile on my face and pretend everything was okay when, in reality, it was like a knife plunging straight into my chest. And while I know that no one can ever replace me in the hearts and minds of my children, it is not lost on me that in every other way, I was effectively replaced. That doesn’t happen when someone dies. People don’t act like they never existed.
Anyway… I promise I am not “backsliding” or cultivating resentments. I really am in a good place overall. Grateful for the life I have now and for lessons learned post-divorce. Just really needing an outlet to work through some of these residual thoughts and feelings.
Your post resonates with me. And I empathize with both your emotions and their depth.
Betrayal is worse than any other thing/sin. To be betrayed requires that person to have your trust and faith, and for them to knowingly shatter that. The pain from such an act is horrific in its torment and tarring down of us. Quite literally, world upending.
You’ve well illustrated the grief, and the differences between losses. And yes, losing one’s spouse due to a death has very different aftermath. Collateral damages are less, among other things.
You were around during my situation’s hay day. And I, your’s. I too, so proud when I wore my wedding ring. Loved the pictures on the wall. I often lamented that if XW had died she would have been remembered and beloved almost as a saint. The question of “Was ANY OF IT ever real?”, I asked myself quite a bit.
I believe it was.
Certainly, my XW lead a duplicitous life. For how long, is still an unanswered question. However, it matters not. The part in which she interacted with me, the kids, parents, friends, etc., was genuine. Or she is the world’s best actress.
We all look back and deduce the timeline as best we can. In my case, the time leading up to XW’s bomb drop, has a definite flavour and behaviour to it, unlike the preceding decades. I seems to recall your XH displayed similar behaviours and inner torments.
Originally Posted by DejaVu6
“I hate going back and forth between houses and now the reason for that has left." Yikes. I didn't really know how to address it except to say that his dad and my relationship was in trouble long before OW showed up and she wasn't the reason his dad left, she was just the way he chose to do it.
Yes. The affair partner is a symptom, not the reason.
I think what you said was good. Hopefully son (and daughter) will find peace with it all.
I am sorry to hear about the house and property plans. The aftermath of recent world events have certainly derailed many plans and upgrades for many folks. I do understand the financial risk and uncertainty. (OMG, the inflation and interest rates!) However, I am curious, if you wish to share, as to what you meant by too much of an emotional risk.
OW’s passing would understandably stir some emotions within you. Not the least of which, is empathizing with XH’s pending grief and loss, and the suffering he is about to face.
I do not think you are backsliding. And you and I have often discussed forgiveness. It’s an interesting place to be grateful and not harbour resentments.
Keep living in the light DV.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I don’t know if anyone is reading my thread anymore…
I am still reading here and have been here now for 14 years. Not every day but I try to check in and pay attention every few days.
I would put my two cents in about the dying vs leaving debate as - once someone dies their is a finality to the whole thing. When they are still alive and not around anymore their is always a shroud around the whole thing.
That being said my advice is to live your life"as if" she has passed away. It is a way to keep moving yourself forward and leave the past behind.
I agree with Cadet, live your life to the fullest and pretend that she is gone.
People tend to forget that when a marriage ends, the relationship has died and people need to grieve the loss of that "deceased" relationship. People do not understand what it takes to get through someone leaving vs. someone dying. Until they walk in your shoes, they will not understand.
In time, life for you will get better, but you have to go through the grieving process first. Be kind to yourself and give yourself the gift of time. Do not let anyone tell you to "get over it". When the time is right, the sun will shine much brighter and one day, you'll discover that you are ready to move on.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thanks all. Like I said in my post… I don’t believe I am backsliding… just processing some residual feelings that have resurfaced following OW’s death. It’s only been four and a half years since all of this started and it feels like a lifetime. XH took our twins on a two-week trip to the UK and sent me pictures and updates on their activities every day they were gone. I appreciated his effort to involve me. The texts were bittersweet though as they were on the trip he and I had always talked about taking them on…without me. Brought up some “what if” and “if only” kinds of thoughts that I wasn’t prepared for. I’m good now though and looking forward to leaving on a trip of my own this weekend.
Today is OW’s Celebration of Life. I thought about going because she and I had established a friendship and good co-parenting relationship. However, it would be awkward for me, for XH and potentially for our kids so I will be paying my respects from afar.
DnJ - Thank you for your thoughts. I knew my post would probably resonate with you given how similar our situations were minus the sudden TG declaration in front of the whole family. Still can’t get over that! Regarding the house. I think what I meant by emotional risk was just the stress that comes with building a home these days. I’m not sure it would be worth going through with so many possibilities of having things go south. I don’t want it to impact my relationship with my sister and BIL so it would be a risk. I was willing to risk it two years ago but now that reality has set in, I am not so sure about it. I really just want to get my own place and start living my life with a little less input from my sister and her husband. Would also like to get my stuff out of storage.
Oh yes, Turkey Day. And W’s declaration and exodus.
Luckily I didn’t adopted an aversion to that bird. Lol.
Thank you for fleshing out - emotional risk. I certainly do understand not wanting to create any significant impact upon your relationship with sister or BIL. And a little less input from them, is also understandable.
I hope your property sells quickly and you find a home in short order. Most definitely want to keep this now accustomed lifestyle. Travelling about and all. Pretty neat how after all we go through, we land on our feet.
Enjoy the upcoming trip.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Well hello there old friend. I very rarely visit here but decided to today. Nice to read your updates and glad you are well. How sad for OW to lose her life at such a young age. I always wondered if his draw to her was some strong need to feel so needed. I am glad he is prioritizing his kids now. It is so strange how even after so many years passes our history revisits us and our stories continue to unfold. I do like believe that the more we endure and overcome in life, the more grit and character we develop. Take care of yourself.
Blu
Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon. Nelson Mandela
Like you, when I was earlier into this, I often thought it would be easier if my spouse had passed on.
Last year at this time, I may have said that it was equally as hard, yet different.
This year, I can tell you that if I had the choice to make, I would choose Divorce to go through over this.
Some of what you talk about is true. When it's fresh, there are people around you that care, yet that fades like the Sun right after the funeral. Most people are not equipped to deal with loss.
Whether it come from Divorce, and certainly not with Death.
I felt through my Divorce that there were things that came into play about which set of friends that each of us got to "keep", and that aligned with who they were listening to, and getting the story from. And the people who wanted to remain neutral stayed far away so that they didn't "catch" the Divorce bug.
With death, for me, people seemed to be much the same. Most of them say "If there's anything you need, let me know" , or "were here for you if you need anything" which I have learned is an old Indian term for..... I'm gonna stay all nice , safe, and warm here in my own corner because I don't know what to do. So I will do nothing and let the heavy lifting of contact lay with the person grieving. It relieves their guilt over not contacting you because they really don't know what to say, and want to listen even less. Because they gain nothing by just being there, which is all that we really need. Some of my most important phone calls were blocks of time with no words spoken.
Being totally honest, there is a small part of that being an isolation that we create. There is "widows fire" (look it up), there is those old familiar feelings of abandonment that creep in. We push people away before they walk away from us. And if you think that you got tired of well wishers telling you to move on with Divorce ? The silence of them wanting to tell you, the not answering a phone that you have witnessed them being surgically attached to in person, or hearing the heavy sigh on the other end of the phone when you start talking about your partner, the "one day at a time", or the "it will fade in time"....
I would say mostly because their lives haven't changed, and we all mostly have a short attention span when it comes to another persons pain. We say that we are here for people, yet in reality, we are here for other people when it's convenient...
And if you don't believe me, all 3 of the people that responded to you have my personal contact info, ask them how long it's been since they have asked me how I am doing .....
My love for her will never fade in time. And I won't just move on without her. My life from this day forward will be with her living in my heart, and learning how to live while I miss her.
So yea, for me at least, the pipedream of the Hollywoodized "having constant support" is laughable, and I can tell you that every support group I've been in, all say the same thing.
Death vs. Divorce....
After living both, I feel that the purpose of DBing and the route that I walked during my Divorce was to lead me away from the co-dependency of that relationship. I actively was pursuing detachment with a slow steady letting her go with Love, while learning what, "if you love something, set it free " truly meant.
My goal was to let her go...
Through her death, it has been the complete opposite of that. One tries to cling to everything, anything, anyone that will somehow teach you something new, a new story, a shared picture, something that you haven't seen before. You search through and listen to voicemail just to hear the voice one last time, and quite possibly be able to save for down the road. You isolate (which only enhances the exit of friends and well wishers) because the pain of losing them is too intense to deal with. You can be in a room with a million people, yet still feel totally alone in the world. The only thing that you can think is that you want this pain and loneliness to end, by whatever means it happens. That one new thing that you find or hear is what keeps you here and willing to face another day....
The Divorced spouse is still here, and they have life, free will, and a chance at turning around and being in your life....
The deceased spouse has nothing left to offer the world except their memories, stories about them, and pictures. Your love has to carry you through a lifetime of living for you both, and seeing the things that you planned together, living the dreams that you made together, and finding some level of happiness that they can no longer be a part of....and all of that, lives within every facet of your heart.
My Ex wife still lives in a small corner of my heart, and I will always love her in some small way.
K took my heart with her when she passed.
I would never wish either on anyone, because they both share similar pain.
Every road is different for everyone walking it....
When my Ex left, the moving truck backed up and took all of her things....
The Coroner van doesn't have a trailer hitch....
You see one of her things....she's gone
You think of something you want to tell her....she's gone
You see her picture...she's gone
You forgot a couple boxes of your things here....she can't swing by and get them.
You need advice parenting a child...she's gone....
You can't remember the password to pay the power bill....she F'ing gone...
I didn't lose her once and done....I STILL lose her a thousand times every day....
With my Divorce, comparing the 2 for myself, after a year, I was detached enough to start moving forward with my life, for me, and I didn't feel like I lost her over and over again. I wasn't devastated at the occasional interaction with our history.
I don't wanna get all soapbox with you, and I'm not trying to diminish what you have gone through.
I just want you to understand that the differences are not what you might think that they are. And if you are trying to understand, then I want you to have as much information as you can get about both sides of the subject.
Until you've experienced each side that you are discussing, you can never fully understand it. I tell young men waiting for the birth of their first child, that nothing I say to you can describe what you will feel when you watch your child being born, yet IF you've been there and have witnessed it ? I don't have to describe it to you, because you know... There are no words to accurately describe each pain, because they are as unique and individual as the person experiencing them.
sometimes Mach that heavy sigh is because I can't reach through the phone with my magic wand, wave it over you and make it all better.
other times the heavy sigh is because I can feel how much it hurts, and I hate that the only way for you to heal is to literally walk through the valley of the shadow of death, and all I can do is just sit on the other end of the line and hold space for you and frankly - some days that doesn't seem like nearly enough.
never is the sigh because i'm sick of being there for my friend.
just an fyi.
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
It’s good to see your post since as you said, not many of us from our time are still around here. I am still here…although not as often…and glad you are too. I’m glad to hear that in general you are doing well. It is very sad about OW’s death. For your XH, for the kids and for you. I can understand how that would bring up so many feelings. I admire your strength and grace in how you have been handling it.
Your post about death vs betrayal/divorce really resonated with me. You described so accurately how it feels to me as well. Mach1, forgive me for not being able to relate to the death side as you have as I’m sure I might feel differently if I experienced that myself. But I haven’t, and even though I can see what you mean, I can’t fully grasp that experience. So, for now, I am in agreement with DejaVu6 on the glaring difference in how you feel and are treated post betrayal vs the death of a spouse. I’ve struggled with these differences a lot, especially as there is a close friend on my brother’s who’s spouse passed away, and the way my brother treats her versus the way I am treated is so vastly different. She is supported and surrounded by love, while I am questioned for any sign on not “over it” fully at this point. I feel so unseen, not just by my family but my friends as well. My struggle was very lonely, isolating and not really having anyone who could relate except those of us on this site. Another reason why this place was a refuge for me. And also why it’s been hard with so few of those who’ve been on this journey with me no longer here.
So, yes, we are better and have been generally doing well. But these feelings and these moments will still come up. For our loss, I don’t think there will never be complete closure. At least at this time I cannot see that. We will move forward with strength, we may forgive or become indifferent, but something will always remind us of what happened, of who our ex’s were (or weren’t), of what answers we will never have, the life we lost, etc. To me, to lose someone and know they loved you and what you had was real would be easier then losing someone and being left with all these questions about yourself, your life and your reality. And no matter what, people will look at you differently as well. With death there is sympathy. With betrayal/divorce there is judgement. It just is what it is and it kind of [censored].
Sending you love and hugs and again, I admire your grace and open heart. So much strength there. Better things are ahead for us.
XO El
Me 52, H 56 T10 M7, 2nd MR for both 2 Step Sons (19 and 21) BD: Fall 2020 D finalized: July 2022 XH Married AP soon after D day.
Just reading your post stirs up unexpressed emotions in me. Typing that out must have been crazy hard. I hope K visits you in your dreams. That is when my brother visits me.
HUGS
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Just reading your post stirs up unexpressed emotions in me. Typing that out must have been crazy hard. I hope K visits you in your dreams. That is when my brother visits me.
Same feeling here. Everything I have read here this evening is so similar to what I feel, we may all have a different story but at the end of the day we are all going through the same thing.
Sending a log of hugs to you and the kids DejaVu3, also to you Mach1! Respect.
