A quick caveat to my next post… I’m not known around here for being gentle. Sometimes people need a 2x4 to the head, and so this is just written in the hope it helps.
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Here is what I'm afraid of - that my W is having a PA and my marriage is over.
I’m sorry to tell you this, but your marriage is already over.
You’re on a divorce busting bulletin board. She or you sleeps on the couch. She’s losing weight at great speed, buying new clothes, you suspect at least an EA with another man and she’s told you she’s not in love with you.
Conceptually, you see a marriage that has 1% chance of saving and you identify that last 1% string holding it together as whether she’s having a PA.
What does that mean? Well you are terrified of that string snapping, and so you have everything hanging in whether she’s having or had a PA. To her, you look like a frightened little mouse hiding in the corner waiting for her boot to squish you and put you out of your misery.
You need to reframe this all.
Your marriage is done, finished, over. She’s unhappy, she’s looking external by getting fit and buying new clothes, she’s not sleeping in your bed, she’s not hiding it from the kids, and you can bet all her friends and family know she’s leaving. They are all major hurdles that stop someone from divorce, and from where I’m sitting, she’s already jumped over most of them.
You are placing so much emphasis on PA or no PA, that you’re a deer in the headlights to other major issues here. And really, what’s the difference between a full EA which you suspected in your first post and a PA which is exactly the same thing, except where there’s some P in V. There’s no difference to the long term success of a marriage whether it’s an EA or a PA.
Because you’re so afraid of PA and making it your deal-breaker line in the sand, you aren’t taking ACTION to become a strong and assertive and attractive man in her eyes. You should move into the main bedroom, but you’re afraid of her. If you move back in and she says “well I’ve been having a PA”, what changes? Nothing! She’s been having it anyway 🤷♂️
Are you afraid that she’s actually having a PA, or are you afraid of what that means you have to do if you find out?
That’s what is really going on here. You fear PA because it’s your line in the sand. You even said that on your second post.
You really need to drop the fear and the obsessing over PA.
Accept that your marriage in all practical terms is already over. Move back into the master bedroom. Stop fearing the one thing (losing her) that it appears happened 6-12 months ago.
Set about a rapid self improvement program (with professional help such as a DB coach or counsellor) where you prioritise: - self realised and driven happiness (rather than externally driven by her or your marriage status) - GAL activities (hobbies, desires, time spent alone doing things just for you) - physical fitness transformation - mental fitness transformation - a master of your own emotions and resilience
Get that pile of things in order, and you’ll be attractive to her once more (generally takes 3-5 years). That inevitably leads to one of three things: 1. She realises you’re attractive and you reconcile 2. She realises you’re attractive and wants you back but you don’t want to be with her any more 3. She keeps doing what she’s doing, never wakes up, but you’re happy in yourself
What you fear - it’s already happened.
Time to detach, stop living through fear and become a strong, resilient man and a lighthouse for your kids. Because what you are right now - she doesn’t want a part of it.
Kind - I hate to say this but you are right about pretty much everything. Her friends know. She doesn't have any family left to tell. I'm terrified of the divorce but you are right once again, this is little to no chance of saving this marriage. She treats me with total disrespect most of the time. Last night I listened to her tell me how I held her back from doing things, traveling, etc all because of my career.
I have a meeting with the lawyer in a few weeks and when I made the appointment, I was hoping I'd cancel it. It seems painfully obvious that is not going to happen. I have to man up and find the courage to detach. I'm good for a two days and then I'm right back to not doing it. Kind - you're right. My marriage is over and there ain't no saving it. She is doing everything you said she is doing and more.
That’s okay mate. Everyone here knows how you feel. The bit you’re at right now, I can honestly say was the WORST part for me too. Imagine a bell curve of pain. You’re right at the top now, which means two things - it’s not going to get any worse from this point, and it’s going to start getting easier. Think about how long it took to get to this worst part right now… it will take at least half that time for you to come back down the other side.
Your happy life on the other side - this, right now, needed to happen. Don’t fear it, because it’s allowing you to get to the next stage.
Don’t wave the white flag just yet… but just accept that what is right now, is.
So tomorrow, she pins you down and has a huge go about how her unhappiness and lack of travel and fun is all your fault. Yesterday, you probably broke, got emotional, let your emotions control your behaviour and words, and for all your own pain, tried to make it about you “Why are you doing this to me, can’t we try again, what if it’s different next time?”
She sees the same thing as the last few months. Same is bad. Nothing has changed, and she desperately wants change.
So this time you do this:
1. Validate. DON’T AGREE. “You’re right” is another nail in the coffin. You imagine you are her and you want the other person to understand how you feel. “Wow, if that was me, I’d feel like I’d missed out on so much right in the prime of my life. It would probably feel like such a waste, where I prioritised everyone else (husband, kids, family, job) at my own expense. Is that sort of how you feel?” And that’s it. Put yourself in her shoes, validate that she can and does feel how she does feel and then STFU.
2. Don’t hang around. Validate and leave, and leave to be going to do something fun and ATTRACTIVE. “I’m going hunting, I’m going mountain biking, m shopping for motorbikes, me and the guys are going to a bar, I’ve joined a basketball team.”
Don’t try and fix it. Don’t offer to send her on a holiday. Don’t tell her to travel. Don’t tell her it’s her fault for not saying she wanted to travel.
Walk out the door happy, busy, relaxed - with new clothes, new haircut and a sexy aftershave.
Every time you get emotional and demonstrate your attachment you give her a green light to continue the divorce. Women don’t divorce lightly, and it has lots of unknowns for their future security. The only way they are happy to blow up their own life is if:
a) they’re truly being batteries and abused, in which case any future no matter how unsure, looks better, or b) they’re pretty confident they can change their mind and waltz back in if their affair partner drops them or their MLC doesn’t turn out how they expected.
She’s not attracted to you rn, and she has a hell of an easy backup plan.
Time to increase your attractiveness and pull away the safety blanket.
She's projecting, don't fuss over it. You did well by not initiating or continuing the conversation. All she will do is blame you for everything she perceives as bad in her life, and in MLC even previously good things are going to be bad things, so no, you'll go crazy if you buy into any of that. Keep conversation short and simple, that's all she can handle right now.
So I am a little proud of myself. I received a crazy town text from W this afternoon telling me how spoiled are kids are and thats it my fault. Truth be told, I do spoil my kids a little bit but they're great kids. Bad for us at home but at school and around other parents they are well mannered and well behaved. Anyway - then she goes on about how she does this and does that while all I do is work and everything is around my schedule. She took my D12 to a doctors appointment. An appointment that she scheduled on a day that she knew I wouldn't be available. She has something to do with her side business that interfered. She then told me she thinks she needs to leave, maybe we will all appreciate her for that she does and that she is getting close to her breaking point.
My response was I understand you're angry, frustrated and hurt. We don't want her to leave but understand. I am paraphrasing because both text her to me and my response were a little lengthy. I tried to convey to her that I understand her frustrations. I thanked her for her honesty and I would like to work on this marriage but understand if its something she is no longer interested in.
Reading her text made me angry but I pulled over on the side of the rode and tried to search this forum for some appropriate responses. When I came home, she is laying on the bed looking at her phone and not a word was spoken. I'm doing my best to DB but I can tell you, this is not easy.
These folks can hot and cold, and emotionally ping pong about. W’s path is more emotionally driven than rationally driven. And as such, you’ll see some wildly conflicting behaviours and conversations.
Thing is, during the current moment she feels whatever it is she feel. A while later, her feelings change, and so does her mannerisms and behaviours. From blaming you, to cordial, to rage, to how was your day. It’ll make your spin trying to keep up.
Like Kind’s wise post, validate her feelings and then be quiet. No agreeing, no arguing, just acknowledging her feelings.
By the sounds of things you did pretty well, and should be proud of yourself. I do have a few ideas for you for next time.
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My response was I understand you're angry, frustrated and hurt. We don't want her to leave but understand. I am paraphrasing because both text her to me and my response were a little lengthy. I tried to convey to her that I understand her frustrations. I thanked her for her honesty and I would like to work on this marriage but understand if it’s something she is no longer interested in.
Validating takes a while to get the hang of. All the strikethrough stuff is too much pressure and takes away from her feelings. You are inserting and letting her know of your own feelings. Example: I would like to work on this marriage but understand if it’s something she is no longer interested in.
You’ve told W all that, likely plenty of times. Let this be the last time. It’s not like she’s forgot where you stand on things. And she kinds of needs to.
For the actual bit regarding her feelings, ensure her feelings are the focus of the statement. The most important thing in validating is to show that you heard her. Something like, wow your day sounded overwhelming. I’m sorry it was such a frustrating day. Thank you for looking after D12’s appointment.
Originally Posted by Keyser77
Reading her text made me angry but I pulled over on the side of the rode and tried to search this forum for some appropriate responses.
To go a bit further. This was a text. Let it be. Unlike face to face conversation, no immediate response was needed. Especially when you’re angry. This buys you some time to calm and figure out what to say. And it gives time for her feelings to maybe change, maybe even soften to something easier to validate.
Her text was venting, not really a question. Would’ve likely been better to not text, come home (even with her in the bed looking at her phone), and then validate her terrible day.
Anyhow, like you said, this DB stuff ain’t easy. Keep at it man. You’re doing fine.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you - I will work on it for the next time as I'm sure there will be a next time!
Can I ask why a MLC doesn't file for divorce if its clear that they want it or believe they want it? Do they wait around until the LBS has had enough and they file?
1. Why burn the bridge when you don’t have to? Having an affair is risky business, why cut the lifeline of security when you don’t have to?
2. Some people who instigate will do everything to make the other person file. It’s about protecting their personal public image or perhaps is religiously driven. They find the shame of instigating divorce worse than treating their spouse like dirt for 6-12 months, because they know at some point the LBS will file and then they can tell everyone that it wasn’t their fault. My ex did this. Classic 🤣
3. In some jurisdictions like Australia, filing puts a time limit on claims like spousal maintenance (similar to alimony). By separating but not divorcing, they leave their options for financial claims open indefinitely.
4. Sometimes, it’s because they stand to lose some benefit. Like a nice house to live in, or their car, or it may force custody proceedings.
5. And lastly, sometimes it’s because they like the power of the divorce threat to hold over you. My crazy ex lost it when I filed, and it’s simply because up until that point she held all the cards and controlled everything. Once I filed, she couldn’t control me or the situation any more and she absolutely lost it.
Most importantly, does it really matter why they procrastinate like this?
What really matters is this - what do you want? If you’ve had enough - then file. I get the whole “standing” and “don’t do the heavy lifting” thing that gets advertised here a lot, but I think bumbling along for years without closure when there’s no hope of rebuilding a healthy relationship is not a solution. Give 100% to DBing, and if it’s not working, move on and file.
It gives you closure, protects you somewhat from never-ending claims - and it isn’t necessarily the final nail in the coffin. You can always reconcile after a piece of paper gets issued.
Hey Keyser, my MLC H has to thrown the “you spoil the kids too much” at me too lately. Even to the point where he said I never asked him and would buy them stuff and book family holidays ( boo hoo he didn’t seem to say anything then but now it’s an issue). The same way they supposedly “do everything” like they are Mary Poppins and disregard anything you may have done. The more posts I read the more I see the resemblance, the same script , the same pattern, the “ I want to separate but won’t actually do anything to keep my options open just in case”. It’s hard when you’re in the same house, H was home for about 3 months after BD then a trigger when off and he decided to move out. I know everyone says to treat them like an acquaintance or a neighbour on here. It takes a mammoth effort to do that but you will get there. Keep learning. Let W fall into her melting pot of bubbling emotions and don’t let her drag you down with her
M:41 H:48 T:20. M:16.5 BD: 15/12/22 -moved out 17/3/2023
