Antidepressant Crisis?

[buck1]

Just a quick question...

I see that you linked up SM34's thread at the start of this one...

Did you read all of his threads ?

Or just that one ?

It's been a while but I believe I read the one I linked plus one or two others from SM34.
Should I dig deeper into those?

[Kind18]

Hi mate. Don’t take my bluntness the wrong way, but sometimes people need it laid out nice and clearly to grow.

My wife started becoming angrier and angrier (she has a huge voice), started leaning across the table and shaking her finger at my daughter in a physically aggressive manner. I was afraid she was going to make a public scene and possibly throw something. So I physically leaned across the table between them and said we needed to de-escalate and have this discussion later.

You were a weak man. I sense you are afraid of your wife and trying to keep the peace.

The solution here is very easy - get up, take your daughter, and leave. No talking, no arguing, no negotiation, no de-escalation. Just leave. Actions speak louder than words. All you did by trying to de-escalate is teach your wife that you’ll allow her to treat you and your daughter poorly.

give ourselves the freedom to date other people if we want.

Big mistake. What you did here is give her a green light to continue being a cheat and a liar. 100% guarantee she’s now telling her friends and family and colleagues that you’re divorcing because YOU wanted to try dating other people.

It was at this moment when I decided I was no longer interested in saving my marriage, no matter what.

So it wasn’t until after you agreed to separate that you decided you didn’t want to save it?

Are you 100% sure this is what you want? What if she changed her mind tomorrow and begged for you back, would you continue the divorce yourself?

But I want peace for myself too. My stress is off-the-charts. If I could just move out, I would do it, but it would cost at least $1K/month for my own apartment.

Why should you leave? She’s the one who has cheated, TWICE. If you want some peace, be a strong man and get what you want. Tell her she has to leave.

On the surface based on your narrative, I see a man who is coming to grips with divorce and looking to an amicable split. But what I see under the surface is a weak man who’s playing second fiddle to a very controlling and dishonest bully.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. And I’m sorry you have a woman who isn’t worthy of your time and commitment and integrity.

Things will get better.

[buck1]

Thanks for your reply, Kind18.

Hi mate. Don’t take my bluntness the wrong way, but sometimes people need it laid out nice and clearly to grow.

That's OK, that makes sense to me, and I appreciate your honest opinion.

My wife started becoming angrier and angrier (she has a huge voice), started leaning across the table and shaking her finger at my daughter in a physically aggressive manner. I was afraid she was going to make a public scene and possibly throw something. So I physically leaned across the table between them and said we needed to de-escalate and have this discussion later.

You were a weak man. I sense you are afraid of your wife and trying to keep the peace.

Yes, I was definitely trying to keep the peace. I'm trying to be introspective here about fear of my wife; I know I don't care much about her approval any more, but I was definitely afraid she was going to make a public scene by yelling and possibly throwing utensils or something. I was definitely afraid of public humiliation from that possibility.

The solution here is very easy - get up, take your daughter, and leave. No talking, no arguing, no negotiation, no de-escalation. Just leave. Actions speak louder than words. All you did by trying to de-escalate is teach your wife that you’ll allow her to treat you and your daughter poorly.

I like that idea. You're right that she knows she can get away with that behavior with me regardless of my insistence to stop it. I know if I had done that she would've tried to "make me pay" at home with even more anger and insults than I actually endured, so I'd have to prepare myself for that and seek an escape.

give ourselves the freedom to date other people if we want.

Big mistake. What you did here is give her a green light to continue being a cheat and a liar. 100% guarantee she’s now telling her friends and family and colleagues that you’re divorcing because YOU wanted to try dating other people.

I'm pretty confident I'm safe on this one though. NOBODY that knows us will believe that it was my idea to end our marriage. Her siblings are already reaching out to me to offer support because they know how their sister can be. She expressed some fear to me that everybody will know she's the one who broke us up, including our kids, and I'm starting to see that. But I'm not saying anything about it to anyone since I'm not trying to set myself up as a victim.

I've already accepted the idea of her dating other people and I don't think she'd try to hide anything now (unless it was with someone I knew and might be disturbed out for some reason). I plan on doing the same. I don't consider that cheating since we're legally separated and have discussed it quite a bit, and I've told her I'm not pursuing saving our marriage.

It was at this moment when I decided I was no longer interested in saving my marriage, no matter what.

So it wasn’t until after you agreed to separate that you decided you didn’t want to save it?

That's right, since I know separation is easily reversible. But seeing her post-separation behaviors has convinced me that I can't live with her for the rest of my life.

Are you 100% sure this is what you want? What if she changed her mind tomorrow and begged for you back, would you continue the divorce yourself?

Yes. Earlier, I would've been willing to accept her back if I was convinced she was a changed person after therapy, or fixing chemical imbalances, or whatever has caused her to go-off-the rails. But after she admitted cheating a second time, and that she couldn't guarantee she wouldn't cheat again, that was a deal-breaker. Then the lunch with our daughter was a super-duper deal-breaker.

But I want peace for myself too. My stress is off-the-charts. If I could just move out, I would do it, but it would cost at least $1K/month for my own apartment.

Why should you leave? She’s the one who has cheated, TWICE. If you want some peace, be a strong man and get what you want. Tell her she has to leave.

You're right, I like it here and don't want to leave. I shouldn't have to leave. I don't feel I can just kick her out though until she has a place to go. I actually have a lot of compassion for her emotional pain and want to make sure she's OK. We were together for over 35 years and she's the mother of our three beautiful adult children. They are frustrated with her issues too, but they love her and want her to be safe. When we filed for separation, she could've hired an attorney and insisted on wrecking me financially (this is a no-fault state so her infidelity doesn't matter), but she didn't insist on any formal financial agreement. She totally trusts me to be financially fair. Ideally we will figure out a way for each of us to live separately without hardship for either of us.

On the surface based on your narrative, I see a man who is coming to grips with divorce and looking to an amicable split. But what I see under the surface is a weak man who’s playing second fiddle to a very controlling and dishonest bully.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in that. Yes she was disrespectful, controlling, and dishonest. But she would never try to hurt me financially or other extreme ways. For one thing, she'd never want to risk being "disowned" by our children if she did something really dirty to their dad (for what it's worth, only our daughter knows that some infidelity existed). At least I'm glad she voluntarily told me about the second affair, since I had no idea.

My plan is to "do my own thing" from now on and quit playing second-fiddle.

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply!

[Ready2Change]

I was definitely afraid of public humiliation from that possibility.

So you have a great opportunity for personal growth.

You can not control other people. You can only control how you respond. Figure out what is attractive male behavior and behave that way. In all situations.

Soooo.. other peoples behavior should not humiliate you....on the other hand, the way you respond to their behavior may be humiliating. Do not tolerate disrespect.


Start commanding respect. Get your beliefs, thoughts, actions, eye contact, body language, words, tones, inflections etc all in alignment.

[Mach1]

It's been a while but I believe I read the one I linked plus one or two others from SM34.
Should I dig deeper into those?

I always recommend going back and reading old threads that speak to you.

SM"s threads were interesting for several reasons.

The advice there was amazing from some prolific posters from the past. Starsky, MrBond, 25, Cat04, and several others that I can't remember right off hand.

And anytime that I can read something from Starsky....

Welp...for me....he is certainly in the running for being on the Mt Rushmore of DBing.

R2C ??



I would advise when you read them, the same as SM went through though...

That although SSRI can certainly affect people, they aren't the only cause of a marriage failing.

It became easy for SM to blame something other than himself for some major failures in communication styles, and some behavioral patterns that he had developed over the years.

He thought that by blaming SSRI's, that it let him off the hook for shortcomings in those areas.

As for now...

I kinda feel like you are sitting on both sides of the fence with your marriage. That if it's convenient, and works out fairly easy, then you would be all in....

Yet if it gets too hard, then you are willing to walk away from it.

And that's not a slight at all. A lot of posters have fallen into that category for me.

So where do you stand with it all today ???

What does Divorce Busting mean to you ???

And I'm only asking because I want to know how to post to you.

What are your goals for YOU ??

[buck1]

So where do you stand with it all today ???

What does Divorce Busting mean to you ???

And I'm only asking because I want to know how to post to you.

What are your goals for YOU ??

Here are my goals:
1) Continue working on my plan to fund my retirement, hopefully very soon.
2) Grow her retirement money as well as mine, since our resources are still combined anyway, so hopefully she can also retire when she wants.
3) Move to another location which I find inspirational (TBD), alone.
4) Remain good friends with her and be able to enjoy family gatherings or even trips with our adult kids (and their spouse(s)), even if either (or both) of us are with other people.
5) I'm going to finally enjoy the heck out of freedom. I don't want to answer to anybody else for anything I do. If I want to spend three or four months hiking the Pacific Crest Trail or spend the summer in Switzerland, I will do it.

I want to be able to hang out with her if we both want, but don't want to be married to her. I don't think she's capable of changing the in the way I'd need to stay married. That's sort of "funny" for me to write since that's the original reason she gave to me on BD for why she said "she hasn't been attracted to me in years" - i.e. I wasn't able to provide the emotional connection she needed to be attracted to me, and she didn't think I was capable of it.

Thanks again!

[Boat14]

That's sort of "funny" for me to write since that's the original reason she gave to me on BD for why she said "she hasn't been attracted to me in years" - i.e. I wasn't able to provide the emotional connection she needed to be attracted to me, and she didn't think I was capable of it.

Believe her! This is what all these situations are about. The rest is all how deep you want to go. If you want to get hung up in the MLC world you will get stuck for years. She lost attraction for you from probably the 1000 little things you did over the years. So you can A. Learn from it (read books on what women are attracted to), self improvement, etc. and move on or B. be stuck in forever limbo hoping she has a change of heart. The choice is yours and you only live once so choose carefully.

[buck1]

Believe her! This is what all these situations are about. The rest is all how deep you want to go. If you want to get hung up in the MLC world you will get stuck for years. She lost attraction for you from probably the 1000 little things you did over the years. So you can A. Learn from it (read books on what women are attracted to), self improvement, etc. and move on or B. be stuck in forever limbo hoping she has a change of heart. The choice is yours and you only live once so choose carefully.

Yes, exactly, I agree completely. She's clearly having an MLC. Even her sister told me so in confidence, as part of her efforts to give me support in this situation. I've mentioned before that her family has always been kind of my "fan club".

Your observation is why I want to maintain friendship with her but am not trying to re-start our traditional marriage relationship. However I am taking it as a challenge to be the "best version of me" as a result of this. Part of my plan is to designed to give me more confidence from feeling more attractive. And other goals are to pursue adventures I've been putting off.

I'm not trying to win her back. But I admit that I'd feel some satisfaction if I sensed her attraction to me increased as a result of my self-improvement journey. At least it might enable our future relationship to be more amicable and devoid of stress.

Thanks for your response.

[Boat14]

Yes, exactly, I agree completely. She's clearly having an MLC. Even her sister told me so in confidence, as part of her efforts to give me support in this situation. I've mentioned before that her family has always been kind of my "fan club".

This is your sister's way of a labeling it so she can rationalize what is happening. You're good guy and probably did nothing wrong that makes sense for her sister to leave you. If she labels it as MLC it helps her come to grips with it.

However I am taking it as a challenge to be the "best version of me" as a result of this.

If you mean this than you are already a winner and way a head of the game.

But I admit that I'd feel some satisfaction if I sensed her attraction to me increased as a result of my self-improvement journey.

This may initially motivate you but eventually you will be on your own journey of self improvement for you.

[Ready2Change]

So you can A. Learn from it (read books on what women are attracted to), self improvement, etc. and move on

She is not attracted to you. She lost her attraction for you. Change your behavior when you interact with her. Change your behavior when you interact with other women. Change your behavior even if no one is watching. Take time now and determine what traits you want to change in yourself and focus on making those changes.