I've spent a week reading through the archives and am halfway through Divorce Remedy. My story is below, I am looking forward to hearing some direct input from the veterans here. W36 and SAHM, M39, S8, D6, S5. We've been together 13 years and married 10.
A few years ago my W began the typical WAW behaviors: drinking more, staying out very late, and being disrespectful to me in private and public. We've always been social and have lots of friends and family nearby, but she began going out without me and staying out until 2 or 3 in the morning, or on some occasions not coming home at all. The bars she was frequenting were dives and/or singles-type places. This caused arguments between us, and I made all the usual mistakes: criticizing her, judging her, explaining my rationale on why her behavior was inappropriate. In the meantime our sex life was waning and I was making the typical mistakes there too: complaining, explaining how it wasn't normal to be having sex once per month or less, etc. As you can guess, the more I pressured the more she distanced herself.
In my desperation I found various online resources that described my situation perfectly, and I became educated on attraction dynamics in long-term relationships. I learned about pursuer-distancer dynamics, attachment styles (W is very avoidant, I'm anxious), and hired a couple of online coaches to guide me along the way. I slowly began changing my behaviors and would notice weeks/months of improvement in our relationship, but nothing that lasted. My wife's drinking continued (she is a weekend binge drinker) and her behavior became more erratic. She would often talk in front of me and others about other guys she found hot, or guys who she thought wanted to sleep with her. She would be aggressive with me on dates, talking about how she always gets hit on when she goes out. At this point I had learned about boundaries and began communicating mine: I would not be in a relationship with someone who is acting single. She would respond that I was being controlling and I needed to give her space.
She began IC but was very skeptical of it, and only attended for about 3 months. I asked her to schedule a couples counseling appointment because I felt our issues needed to be addressed, and she agreed. Around the same time we attended a wedding at which she got very drunk and behaved inappropriately - I won't go into details, but she looked like single person on the dance floor. The next day I told her I was not ok with the behavior and that I'd like her to explain what is going on, she said she wanted to wait until MC.
Three months later she came home after a day of drinking and asked me to sit with her. We sat down and I simply said "I know something is bothering you and I would love it if you told me what it was." It was then that she came clean: three years earlier she had a brief physical affair with a married man in our neighborhood. According to her it was over before it began and there have been no other incidents, and the behavior since then was a form of acting out/punishing herself. She said she was sorry over and over, I told her I wanted to D, she said she didn't. In the days following I told her infidelity and lying were deal breakers and I wouldn't tolerate them, but agreed to attend MC and take my time with a final decision.
That was two months ago. In the meantime I've put a basic D proposal in front of her which she has balked at. She has reverted to blaming me for the affair while also being verbally apologetic, but she is far from showing any real remorse in my view. She refuses to provide any details about the A. We attended a few MC sessions but after the last one I decided to stop going because she was very negative on them and thought they were a waste of time. She is still drinking and going out, and will often come home drunk and wake me up to tell me she doesn't want to get divorced and then launch into a tirade on all of the things I need to change. A few days ago during one of these drunken sessions she began telling me she wasn't sorry for the affair and that I needed to back off and leave her alone. Essentially she wants to stay together for logistical/financial reasons and be left alone to behave how she pleases. My sense is that her family, who we are both very close to, are deeply disappointed in her and are adding to the pressure. The A is known to them and a few close friends that she's confided in.
I'm here on the forums because I don't want to lose my family, but I refuse to stay in the marriage I'm in today so I am open to any and all guidance. This situation has been immensely painful but the forum posts I've read here have given me hope that I can turn my situation around, whether that means staying married or not. Fortunately for me, I recognized two years ago that my marriage was at the center of my life and identity in an unhealthy way and have done well at GAL since then. After DDay we spent several weeks not speaking (we still live together and both sleep in the MB) but since discovering the forums I have reverted to being relaxed and cheerful around my wife and am focused on the 180 process. I've always spent a lot of time with my kids and am a very involved dad, but I've doubled down since D-Day. I love them more than I can express and am very worried about the impact a D would have. While I know kids are very perceptive and can likely guess that something is amiss, we do not argue in front of them. Unfortunately my wife has woken them up on several occasions when she comes homes drunk and yells at me.
There is so much more to say but I'll leave it here. Thank you all for reading, I'm looking forward to joining the community.
Welcome to the community. I am sorry you find yourself in your situation.
I’m glad you have found Divorce Remedy, lots of good information in there. I will copy Cadet’s welcome thread which has many links to a trove of helpful information as well.
As you wisely stated and realize W’s behaviour of drinking, staying out late, even not coming home, and such, is all too common. And sadly, affairs are all too common as well.
Affairs are symptoms, mere band-aids, futile attempts to feel better regarding some deep unresolved pains, hurts, depression, and unhappiness that dwells within these lost souls. Your W’s path has much more to do about her than you. Her blaming, justifications, rewriting history, and new narrative is pretty standard stuff as they try to ignore and escape their problems. Basically, treat it as such. And remember, you cannot fix her, for you didn’t break her.
You have identified some areas for self improvement. Very good. Make changes that you want. Make changes for you. Become the best version of you. All for you and your life. It also has the added benefit of being noticed by W. What may happen is unknown and unwritten.
Originally Posted by Maturin
… the forum posts I've read here have given me hope that I can turn my situation around, whether that means staying married or not.
This is a most true statement. You absolutely can turn your situation around. You can save you, the marriage is a bonus. That, as counterintuitive as it sounds, is the DB path.
My view of promoting divorce is such: Leave the heavy lifting to the spouse who is wanting out, or stepping out of the marriage/vows. Let them do the work. You don’t stand in their way, yet you don’t necessarily pave the path either.
However, if you (and/or the kids) need financial protection or security - get it.
Time and space are your primary allies in your DBing efforts. W needs to feel the loss of you. Let her feel how it is to be somewhat divorced, to lose her emotional support person. Then she may decide/choose to turn from her present trajectory.
Focus on you and the kids. No R-talks. No divorce talks, especially initiated by you. Let her have time to burn through some of her feelings to get to feel guilt, shame, regret, etc; feelings that are much more helpful to your cause.
Continue with 180s that resonate with you. Be happy around her. Live and love your life. Be kind and cordial towards her.
By the sounds of things W has a few demons to find her peace with. That will take time. Your best course is to minimize the target she is painting upon you. Do not be baited into arguments, for you cannot win. She would fight tooth and nail that sky is red regardless of anything you might say.
Detachment is the single best thing you can do when starting out. And it sounds like you are already walking along that path rather well.
I look forward to talking further with you.
Have a great day.
DnJ
- - - -
Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
My view of promoting divorce is such: Leave the heavy lifting to the spouse who is wanting out, or stepping out of the marriage/vows. Let them do the work. You don’t stand in their way, yet you don’t necessarily pave the path either.
No R-talks. No divorce talks, especially initiated by you. Let her have time to burn through some of her feelings to get to feel guilt, shame, regret, etc; feelings that are much more helpful to your cause.
Up until this point my approach has been "Infidelity is a boundary that I will not tolerate, and I don't want to be with someone who behaves as though they are single and does not want to be with me." I have removed my time and attention as a husband and am now focused on being great dad and a cordial husband. How do I best walk this tightrope? If these are my words but my actions are that I still live here and handle my share (and more) of the household duties and parenting, how do I give her the space to "burn through some of these feelings" as you say?
You are correct, you want and it is important for your words actions to match. Some suggestions/tips:
Stop promoting divorce. Do not bring it up. For that keeps reinforcing that idea in her and you.
Treat W like a roommate. Let her go. Give her to God for a while.
Place boundaries on truly disrespectful behaviour towards you. This is an often misunderstood and misapplied item. Boundaries are not some mechanism to directly foster behavioural alterations in your spouse. Boundaries are a premeditated and pre-defined action you will take for a predetermined displayed disrespectful behaviour. For example: “I am willing to discuss things with you. However, when you swear and yell at me, I will leave the room.” And you enforce it. Boundaries will be tested, and they best be rock solid.
Dig for patience. Realize that doing nothing is doing something. Words and actions. The less you say, the less you have to enact. Ensure you speak not from fleeting feelings, rather from logic and reason, and better yet, speak from your core values.
Ah, core values. This is a big one. You need time to discover you. Dig deep. Really find you. We all have prejudices and beliefs and values; some are noble and some are ugly. Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. And discard or alter that which does not serve.
I once believed infidelity was unforgivable. Simple put, I was wrong. Until one is facing such, one really does not know what they can or cannot, well more aptly - will or will not, do. There can be no testament without test.
Be careful making proclamations. For you cannot unring a bell. And believe me, your viewpoint will change during your journey.
Do not live your life and take actions based upon what W does or does not do. Live your life, take actions, based on you. That ownership, that responsibility, requires time to first understand one’s self. Take that time.
You have the gift of time. Use it wisely.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Place boundaries on truly disrespectful behaviour towards you. This is an often misunderstood and misapplied item. Boundaries are not some mechanism to directly foster behavioural alterations in your spouse. Boundaries are a premeditated and pre-defined action you will take for a predetermined displayed disrespectful behaviour. For example: “I am willing to discuss things with you. However, when you swear and yell at me, I will leave the room.” And you enforce it. Boundaries will be tested, and they best be rock solid.
D
I am struggling here. For 2+ years my W was displaying WAW behaviors, and I knew an A or some type of infidelity was possible. During this time I was learning how to discard my unattractive nice guy behaviors and GAL. As I regained my self confidence and got clarity on my values, I always told myself that infidelity was a deal breaker and would end the marriage, and made this clear to my W as well. Now that the A has been revealed - the ultimate act of disrespect - how do I maintain credibility and congruence with my communicated boundaries if I pursue any path other than D?
W has made it clear to me that she does not want D, but rather to continue on in the current state of things which I view as untenable (although "believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do" seems appropriate here, I don't think she truly enjoys her life right now). It seems like she is a cake eater: having me as H for status/financial/parenting support but live like a single person on weekends. I have stated several times that this is not acceptable to me.
I know the path: GAL, focus on me/kids, and be patient. I have good days and not so good days with that game plan, but overall find it effective. Consistency is important for me now because in the days/weeks after DDay I was occasionally emotional and angry, which is counter productive for me and shuts her down. For the last 1-2 weeks I've been much more cheerful as I focused on the 180 and GAL.
I plan to lean heavily on the forum. Continuing to live with a W who I find attractive but who has taken me for granted as a H is challenging. It's taken a LONG time to "get it" but I now understand that she long ago lost respect for me, and so the attraction flows only one way now. The upside is that I am rebuilding my self confidence and pursuing a deeper understanding of myself and what I want.
As I regained my self confidence and got clarity on my values, I always told myself that infidelity was a deal breaker and would end the marriage, and made this clear to my W as well.
What has changed? Why is it no longer a dealbreaker?
Originally Posted by Maturin
Now that the A has been revealed - the ultimate act of disrespect - how do I maintain credibility and congruence with my communicated boundaries if I pursue any path other than D?
You can't. You just try to make changes for yourself and your children while this plays out.
Originally Posted by Maturin
It seems like she is a cake eater: having me as H for status/financial/parenting support but live like a single person on weekends. I have stated several times that this is not acceptable to me.
So what does she say when you say "this isn't acceptable to me"?
Originally Posted by Maturin
The upside is that I am rebuilding my self confidence and pursuing a deeper understanding of myself and what I want.
As I regained my self confidence and got clarity on my values, I always told myself that infidelity was a deal breaker and would end the marriage, and made this clear to my W as well.
What has changed? Why is it no longer a dealbreaker?
I am open to what I am learning in the DR book as well as on the forums, that a marriage may be repaired after infidelity with the right approach.
Originally Posted by Maturin
Now that the A has been revealed - the ultimate act of disrespect - how do I maintain credibility and congruence with my communicated boundaries if I pursue any path other than D?
You can't. You just try to make changes for yourself and your children while this plays out.
Originally Posted by Maturin
It seems like she is a cake eater: having me as H for status/financial/parenting support but live like a single person on weekends. I have stated several times that this is not acceptable to me.
So what does she say when you say "this isn't acceptable to me"?
Her retort is that I am controlling, or trying to control her. She has said several times (while drunk) that she wants to stay married but plans to do whatever she wants. I refuse to engage in relationship talk when she's been drinking.
Originally Posted by Maturin
The upside is that I am rebuilding my self confidence and pursuing a deeper understanding of myself and what I want.
Great! What changes are you making?
I have let the cage door open. I no longer ask who she is with, where she is going, how her night was, etc. I don't check up on her or criticize her drinking. I recognize that I bring a lot to the table in relationship and am socializing much more with friends who share my values. I am returning to my "old self" and pursuing hobbies and interests that get me excited. I am thinking about how unpleasant the last 2-3 years has been and have decided I won't accept that same life as a future for myself.
She's testing you and you are failing. My suggestion is for you to not make anymore bold statements that you are not prepared to back-up. That just weakens your position even more.
I like this paragraph: I recognize that I bring a lot to the table in relationship and am socializing much more with friends who share my values. I am returning to my "old self" and pursuing hobbies and interests that get me excited. I am thinking about how unpleasant the last 2-3 years has been and have decided I won't accept that same life as a future for myself.
In spite of all the reading and taking action, I still struggle with consistency. I plan to use the forums as a sounding board for what I am doing right and wrong.
My wife notified me that she will be going to a holiday party this weekend. As I've shared, she is a typical wayward in full rebellion, as sandi2 has so eloquently written about. Drinking, staying out late, acting single. In theory I am building a mindset that says "If this is who she is going to be, my life is better without her in it as my wife". In practice, when I find out she is attending a party without much other detail, the old insecurities rise to the surface. Which is funny, because my worst fears have already been realized: she had a PA with someone else and demonstrated the capacity to lie about it for years. So what I am worried about? How could my MR possibly be "less" than it already is? The process for me is about feeling the disappointment of where things stand, accepting that I only have power over how I respond, and then returning to a place of masculine, grounded strength as quickly as possible.
I gather that boundaries don't matter when your W doesn't respect you. So during this phase I have to simply open the cage door and let her out. In the meantime she is enjoying all the financial and logistical benefits of our MR. This doesn't sit well with me: I feel like I'm being taken advantage of, while my wife eats cake. There is no active AP that I am aware of, but I feel confident she's behaving inappropriately when she's drinking and I'm not around. I will focus on GAL and detachment, but the patience part sure is difficult.
Yes maturin keep the focus on you and what is best for you. Follow DB and run ideas past the group here for critique, blind spot coverage and encouragement and live a great life! I’d suggest to all but ignore W’s re-emerged adolescence.
