I went running on xmas day and Strava reported I had my third fastest 5k time ever. That might not sound super impressive but my online logs cover 11+ years. So I was knocking down efforts that were a decade old and ten pounds lighter. Anyway, made me feel good. I had totally quit running for the three years up to BD and only started again after BD.
One thought I had in re-reading & reflecting on my own post… her wedding ring! When she first took it off a few months ago I would say something or ask her about it or move it on the dresser so it was more visible—like she wasn’t wearing it because she forgot/didn’t see it. LOL (at myself in hindsight). I used to get quite upset and obsess about it way too much. But thinking about it more over the last couple days I realize it’s like a warning signal now. She wears it occasionally, I think to (1) try to reel me in when she’s feeling insecure or (2) around friends who don’t know about affair (and wanting to spare judgment) or (3) when she wants to try to manipulate/control me because she knows it meant a lot to me. For instance, she wore it for the first time in a week and a half last Friday when she started crying and asking for more attention. The story above. I saw her wearing it today and thought to myself… ‘this little birdie is up to something today, beware!’ The irony is that now it’s a dead giveaway and works more against purposes her than for her. Maybe one day in the future it can come to symbolize something pure again.
Also, good point about babysitter. Geez, that seems obvious in hindsight.
I poorly communicated the OM sleeping situation/details and L, will clarify that in a post later tonight or tomorrow. Again, thanks for everyone who read or replied to the post. I know it’s a busy time of year!
D7 and I are flying to visit grandparents tomorrow for a few days.
I went running on xmas day and Strava reported I had my third fastest 5k time ever. That might not sound super impressive but my online logs cover 11+ years. So I was knocking down efforts that were a decade old and ten pounds lighter. Anyway, made me feel good. I had totally quit running for the three years up to BD and only started again after BD.
Congrats! A nice example of getting back to the guy you used to be and reconnecting with the hobbies and activities that make your life your own.
Originally Posted by 7knots
She wears it occasionally, I think to...
Who cares why she wears it, or if she wears it? Wondering about that is the opposite of detaching. I went through this myself: after dday I stopped wearing my ring and once my W noticed she would occasionally do the same (my sitch: 3 year old PA just revealed in Sept, W does not want D but I am done with her wayward lifestyle). Suddenly I found myself wondering if she was wearing her ring, especially when she was going out. Was she leaving it at home to mess with me? Or so she could appear single when out and partying? I was living in her frame, not my own. Once I read more about detaching I stopped obsessing over it and have since left it alone.
She wears it occasionally, I think to (1) try to reel me in when she’s feeling insecure or (2) around friends who don’t know about affair (and wanting to spare judgment) or (3) when she wants to try to manipulate/control me because she knows it meant a lot to me.
As someone external to your situation, she doesn’t sound like a very nice person.
Appears to be very manipulative, controlling, and has a high level of disrespect for you given she thinks you won’t join the dots about her wanting to manipulate you by wearing it.
I’m not sure I’d give any of my brain space to thinking about whether she wears it or not.
Best off using that time to go for another run, do some clothes shopping, finding a new aftershave or dusting off your bike and going for a ride.
You should reserve your thoughts and feelings and emotions for someone who is worthy of it.
I see you’ve read here for many months, read DR and other books as well. Good for you.
A caution. Keep DR and such close to your vest. Clear browser history on shared computers as well. As W will view such information and advice as an attempt to manipulate her.
How old are you and W? How long married? and together?
I agree with the advice from the other posters. There are lots of kind and compassionate folks here with much hard earned wisdom. And we’ve walked in your shoes. (((Hugs)))
Originally Posted by 7knots
I have been successful starting to run 2-3 times per week and go to dinner with a buddy once every ~3-4 weeks. I get “stuck” in the house because someone has to be home with D7. I made the most of it when I was at home by doing home improvement projects that boost my esteem a bit but they don’t get me interaction with other people. Does this count as GAL at all? Also had sleepovers for D7 and other outings like corn maze and trip to mall when wife was gone those weekends. Really struggling on this front—would appreciate any suggestions.
Absolutely!
Any activity, where you are living, not sitting and pinning for W, is excellent!
Home improvements, running, diner with a buddy, doing things with kids, all good.
Lots of folks think that GAL has to, or is better, when one is out and interacting with other people. Solo activities are still positive and very beneficial. Do a puzzle, go out for dinner to a fancy restaurant by yourself, walk, hike, dig a garden, shovel snow, read a book, watch a movie, make a man cave. You likely have some hobbies you put aside when you got married and had kids and family. Dust them off, pick them back up.
Of course, another benefit of GAL is pushing your comfort zone, and fostering different social interactions. Trying on different activities and seeing what fits. You might even find something new and really enjoyable. A cooking class, or stain glass class, or painting. Bowling league. Or golf, baseball, curling, etc. All likely better than hanging out with the barflys.
Originally Posted by 7knots
we went to lunch and on the way home she was crying. I asked what was wrong and she said she’s not happy with our situation. She said she keeps waiting for me to change and be more available and connected. The last couple weeks I was detaching and it started feeling like we were roommates to me so I assume she got a similar vibe. It seems like that’s what I’m supposed to do based on the guidance here. It certainly makes ME feel less volatile and more secure/stable. But she says she wants the opposite (more contact, fawning, etc) even now. Am I doing the right thing? Is she just trying to control me? What am I supposed to say/do when she directly asks for more but I’m throttling back?
She is embroiled in an affair. Treat her like a roommate. She needs to feel the loss of you and the relationship. She needs to feel that fear.
You don’t purposefully try to force her feel that way. Nor is that even “why” you detach and live your life. You do it for you. It also happens to give the best chance at saving your marriage.
W is angry at you. Blaming you. Mostly projections, narrative, justifying, rewritten history, and some valid things as well. Give her plenty of time and space. Let her burn through her feelings. What you want is for her to realize “hey, 7 hasn’t been bothering me much lately and I’m still unhappy”. Then, with some good fortune she might figure out that what’s wrong is on the inside and she’ll look within.
Time and space are your greatest allies in your cause. Allowing W to get through her feelings, basically you not reinforcing them, allows her to feel other things much more helpful to propelling your situation in a more positive direction. Feelings like regret, loss, shame, grief, sorrow, remorse, and so on. Time and space gives the opportunity for such to well up in her.
As you detach and find indifference, the roommate thing, keep your feet about you. Indifference is the absence of feelings towards W. Other feelings will seem larger against the void. Know that indifference does unwind and your feelings will return.
It is interesting that W is waiting for you to change. Oddly, there is some truth in that. She’s seen and felt your shift, and she’s not convinced your positive changes are permanent. A key thing for you, any changes you make, any growth, is for you. You do it because you want it, not as some attempt to woo her, or alter her path. That way those changes will be permanent.
W articulated that she’s not happy with the present situation. Realize that is the here and now. The you detaching, focusing on you, GAL, and such. She was quite ok with things when you were on the shelf, and she had a safety net. Let her feel the loss of that net.
Yes, you are on the right path.
Yes, W is attempting to control and manipulate you. Trying to get you back under her thumb.
Originally Posted by 7knots
What am I supposed to say/do when she directly asks for more but I’m throttling back?
Validate her emotions and go about your day. Be busy.
Note, that’s only validating her emotions, not condoning her behaviour, nor giving credence to any false assertions or accusations.
You’ve realized that snooping is not in your best interests. Well done putting a stop to that endeavour.
A word on the affair. Affairs are a symptom of a deeper problem within the cheater and the affair partner. It is a mere band-aid. A lousy attempt at trying to feel better. These illicit relationships are built upon a foundation of lies and deceit, much like building upon sand. Such an unstable foundation requires significant energies to maintain and does not well withstand life’s storms.
You are the husband. The prize. The strong and stable one. Realize your worth and never let anyone take that from you.
Grow and heal. Become 7knots2.0. Become the best version of you. A man only a fool would leave.
You’ve got a gift in all this. The gift of time. Use it wisely.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hey K, When it comes to the wedding ring - try to look at it this way.
From the WAS - they immediately want to take it off. It's a way to empower themselves to say "I'm getting out of here!"
From the LBS - they immediately glue it to their finger. For them - it's a way of saying "Hey! We're still married until this divorce is final!"
Both are forms of fake control on a situation neither party has full control over. My point being is her putting or taking off that ring has more to do with her cr@p than yours. Don't try and figure out the why's... you will never know and it will drive you mad.
The ring is a rollercoaster ride. Don't buy the ticket. Let her ride that emotional coaster solo.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Geez, guessed I missed that part of the intro. I am 42 and W is 39. We’ve been together 10 years and married 8. Wife had a previous marriage that lasted 10 years. This is my first/only.
Yeah, you all have picked up on the controlling/manipulative part quite fast. In hindsight that existed before BD but has increased since. I’m certain my lack of boundaries contributed to that situation and the current situation. This is an area for my 180, which I have been thinking a lot about the last few days based on the feedback.
So regarding clarifying the OM situation, she was staying overnight at his place in sept for one night/weekend for about 4-6weeks. She claimed it was just friendly; I didn’t believe her obviously. From subsequent snooping I found proof it was sexual in a bill clinton type of way. Anyway, after several weeks (4?) I stated a boundary that if she was gonna sleep at another man’s house that she couldn’t stay in MBR. She stopped staying overnight shortly thereafter. Has asked about staying overnight again about a month ago and I reiterated my stance and asked which bedroom she wanted her stuff moved to while she was gone. She did not go. I get this boundary was late and too weak. Heck, I even knew that at the time.
OM lives 90 minutes away, is currently on parole for second felony, does not own a car nor have a valid driver license (due to parole). He cannot come visit W right now. So what goes on now and for the past few months is that W waits until D7 and I leave the house for school/work and then goes to visit OM. The round trip travel time is roughly 3 hours which leaves them ~3 hours together. I am pretty sure they are intimate during that time but don’t have proof. As I said earlier I quit snooping months ago.
Regarding Halloween, W spent it with SD12 while I was with D7. W was not with OM. For Tgiving W did not want to make/discuss plans after many, many convos so the weekend before Tgiving I bought plane tickets for D7 and I to visit my FOO out of state (I have no local family). Wanted D7 to have some semblance of a good holiday. I assume W visit(s) OM when I am out of town with D7 since stepkids are old enough to take care of themselves. Plus they have stepfather. So in general I am under the belief W is actively in sexual A but I also have very little recent proof without snooping. I am also highly confident W often texts with OM in my presence while claiming it is a girlfriend or mom, etc.. I am confident because OM doesn’t have an alert but all other contacts/friends do (this fact hasn’t occurred to W; to be honest she’s not very good at covering her tracks). She hides the phone and sits far away etc.—good enough for airtight proof.
Dec 26 we went to visit her FOO for the first time as a family all year and she got drunk there. She mostly dislikes her FOO for a multitude of reasons. Due to drunkeness she wasn’t hiding her phone as well as usual and I saw she was texting OM. Given we were in her parents house and she was drunk I did not confront her. I just left the room. D7 and I flew out the next morning before she woke up. FWIW, I also assume she visited OM while we were out of town, again no proof.
Point of that story is two fold. One, I want to separate the cellphones. Annoyingly she is set up as the account owner and VZ needs her permission for me to split off. I just want control of my number and don’t want to be associated with her activities. Let her pay that bill too. Whatever, I just don’t want to be linked to it in any form. I had asked her to add me as a manager to that account months ago and put in a formal request with VZ but she didn’t approve me although she lies (I assume) and swears she did. I assume she knows I can access the phone logs as a manager which is why she didn’t approve me. I have never discussed splitting off the accounts to date. I look at it as a new boundary given the Dec 26 texting but had not stated it before. Any issue just stating it as a consequence of Dec 26 without prior statement as a boundary? My plan would be for the two of us to go to the VZ store and make the transaction occur—no way she can make false claims when they can check. Not trying to get access to her account since I don’t care to snoop … so I don’t think it should be an issue.
Second reason I bring up Dec 26 is we are/were supposed to go to NYE party together—an outcome/agreement from when things were falsely going better a few weeks ago. We would appear as a happy/functioning couple (a false representation) and I suspect she is going to text OM in my presence while there…which would be disrespectful & hurtful to me. Should I still go? I think the answer should be “no” given what I’ve read of other sitches over the past couple days (ex. Maturin) but I had previously agreed and don’t currently have an alternative. D7 is going to sleepover so I can’t pull on that. I think stepkids will potentially be at our house so I’m not sure I can even just stay home and pretend to be elsewhere. I’m trying to reach out to other friends to extract an invite but I literally might just have to go burn a few hours by myself if I don’t go with W. Thoughts?
In general I’m starting to feel emotionally strong enough /independent to stand up for myself and put in strong boundaries. Yikes, that sentence [censored] to write. Gonna sign up for the class I mentioned. Also plan to state the texting OM in my presence is a boundary (I’ll leave the room). The real defense for that action is to be around her less, living my life/GAL. Been reading Maturin, MrP, Surfer & woke_up situations for guidance the last 3 days. Trying to think through boundary escalation and MBR situation and how to weave that in.
Ended up making my own plans and not attending NYE party. W went nuclear when I told her I wasn’t going, accusing me of dating a woman and asking who I had plans with. I didn’t share. I’m not sure the details and timing were ideal/perfectly on target but the decision seems directionally accurate to me. I felt good & at peace with the decision. I’m sure there will be fallout over the coming days. I tried to STFU as much as possible and leave the room during the inquisition(s) but she was stalking me several times. She’s more upset about this than anything I can remember in our marriage to date. I’m taking that behavior as somewhat positive that at least she still cares. Anyway, not putting much stock in this since it’s becoming clearer to me just how long the road would be for us if we did Reconxile. And that she’s not remorseful or even circumspect in the least. Either way, I feel my self respect growing and staying calm when she’s boiling over and accusing me of things. Also mentioned the phone and that didn’t ruffle many feathers.
Made a promise to myself to revisit the same grounds I went to tonight (caught fireworks, went to dinner, etc) next NYE to review how things changed in the coming year.
Ended up making my own plans and not attending NYE party. W went nuclear when I told her I wasn’t going, accusing me of dating a woman and asking who I had plans with. I didn’t share. I’m not sure the details and timing were ideal/perfectly on target but the decision seems directionally accurate to me. I felt good & at peace with the decision. I’m sure there will be fallout over the coming days. I tried to STFU as much as possible and leave the room during the inquisition(s) but she was stalking me several times. She’s more upset about this than anything I can remember in our marriage to date. I’m taking that behavior as somewhat positive that at least she still cares. Anyway, not putting much stock in this since it’s becoming clearer to me just how long the road would be for us if we did Reconxile. And that she’s not remorseful or even circumspect in the least. Either way, I feel my self respect growing and staying calm when she’s boiling over and accusing me of things. Also mentioned the phone and that didn’t ruffle many feathers.
Made a promise to myself to revisit the same grounds I went to tonight (caught fireworks, went to dinner, etc) next NYE to review how things changed in the coming year.
You absolutely nailed this interaction. Top marks!
As SteveLW says, she’s angry because she didn’t manage to control and manipulate you.
You MUST get comfortable with her being angry. You’re doing a 180 here (completely the opposite of what she’s used to), and so she’s going to act out. Many people arrive here, try 180’s, see their spouse getting angry and think it’s not working or that they need to be nice again to keep the peace. Don’t make that mistake, today was a great step forward. Learn to disassociate her behaviour and angry outbursts with whether your DBing is being successful.
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Yeah, you all have picked up on the controlling/manipulative part quite fast. In hindsight that existed before BD but has increased since. I’m certain my lack of boundaries contributed to that situation and the current situation. This is an area for my 180, which I have been thinking a lot about the last few days based on the feedback.
This is excellent. I’m excited that you’ve joined those dots and that you understand your lack of boundaries has partly led to this situation. A great reminder for every time you consider trying to nice her back to the marriage.
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OM lives 90 minutes away, is currently on parole for second felony, does not own a car nor have a valid driver license (due to parole). He cannot come visit W right now.
Wow, he sounds like an absolute winner 😂😂😂 These sorts of choices scream “midlife crisis”.
I’m impressed so far 7knots. You seem to be taking the advice well, joining the DB dots conceptually and applying it logically to your situation.
You may or may not reconcile, but it’s easy to see already that your DBing will be a raging success for you.
Either way, I feel my self respect growing and staying calm when she’s boiling over and accusing me of things. Also mentioned the phone and that didn’t ruffle many feathers.
Remember this feeling and come back to it when you feel less centered. This has helped me a lot: I would backslide often until I was able to really center myself correctly during these kinds of interactions. Consistency is very important when it comes to changing yourself and I had to learn the hard way. Now I'm pleased to say it's been months (maybe 3 or 4?) since I allowed W's reactions/moods to impact me.
Originally Posted by Kind18
You MUST get comfortable with her being angry. You’re doing a 180 here (completely the opposite of what she’s used to), and so she’s going to act out. Many people arrive here, try 180’s, see their spouse getting angry and think it’s not working or that they need to be nice again to keep the peace. Don’t make that mistake, today was a great step forward. Learn to disassociate her behaviour and angry outbursts with whether your DBing is being successful.
This is the value of reading all threads here on the boards and not just your own. Very helpful comment for my sitch as well.
