Maturin - My Story (2)

[SteveLW]

How do you know that she's not in an active affair?

[Maturin]

How do you know that she's not in an active affair?

I don't. If I've learned anything from all this, it's that I will never be certain of that fact again whether with this wife or the next relationship. She had a PA right under my nose and I suspected absolutely nothing until a year later. I was busy buying my family our forever home and taking victory laps in the Provider Olympics while she was sleeping with another man. So, I don't know she's not in an active affair.

Why is my best guess that she is not in an active affair? She is going out less and generally pretty down when she's here. She swears up and down that it was a one time thing and nothing else has happened. Everyone who knew about this for the last 2-3 years has told me it was a one-off thing that crushed her under a mountain of guilt.

Do I believe her when she says it was a one off thing? No, I don't. I believe she had other one-off indiscretions during the deepest parts of her waywardness, whether that was making out with someone while drunk or whatever. That is what I believe. And if she ever comes around and asks what it will take to reconcile, I will tell her that she needs to be honest with me about everything that's happened. Do I think that will happen? I don't, the more I reflect on it the more I believe she is nowhere close to that kind of disclosure. Hence my post about looking for apartments. This is my life, I've spun wheels for three years and I'm very curious about what life could look like without all this chaos.

[DnJ]

Hello Mat

The urge is strong to make a move here. I want there to be some kind of resolution, a "do it or get off the pot" moment. Sign the lease, create real space between us, and use that space to decide how I want to proceed.

A couple of cautions:

During indifference other feelings will loom and appear larger than they truly are.

Decisions and actions taken based upon feelings very often lead to regrets.

For others here who have had to be in the driver's seat, how do you decide when you're done waiting? After years of wayward behavior and months of living like roommates I want there to be resolution. But I just re-read DnJ's earlier post in this thread and am considering the virtue in being patient.

Patience.

You have the gift of time. Use it wisely.

I understand and empathize with your feelings of frustration and wanting resolution. Perfectly normal and valid. And feelings are fleeting. Let them flit. Cease reinforcing them.

Realize you don’t wait. You aren’t to be waiting.

Time and space. Letting go. Moving forward. GAL. Focusing on you. Doing nothing is doing something. Embrace limbo and uncertainty. These are more than catchy phrases. They are deep tenets with much meaning.

One could be in a separate residence and be waiting. One could be living under the same roof and be successfully moving forward and thriving. It’s not about physical space, it’s about emotional space.

“Sign the lease, create real space between us, and use that space to decide how I want to proceed.”

Yes, create real space. Drop the rope. Let W feel the loss. Allow yourself to find your convictions, sans the commotion from W. Find your deep beliefs and values, and make decisions upon them more than how you temporarily feel. That, takes time.

It would be the perfect second place for us to use during a "nesting separation"…

I’d not craft it as “perfect”. Your mind is listening and creating your view as you ask it to. It’s a place to utilize for nesting separation. It’s not perfect. It’s just your feelings seeking affirmation and reinforcement. Look deeper than that. IMHO.

To be honest one of the reasons I'm inclined to rent another apartment is that the more I make these changes and focus on myself, the less I want to be around her.

In the moment it felt weird, and only later upon reflection did I realize it "felt weird" because I didn't feel like I loved her, at least the way I used to. This has never happened before. I chalk it up to really thinking deeply about what she did, and what has transpired since, and what I want. Combine that with zero physical intimacy for four months and all of the associated chemical reactions diminishing, and you have a recipe for not feeling like you love a person.

Indifference is a strange landscape. Make no major decisions while first wandering about and getting your bearings. And yes, it likely has never happened before. Continue moving forward and look to your logic, reason, and beliefs. Remember, indifference does unwind.

D

[Maturin]

Thanks D.

It’s not about physical space, it’s about emotional space.

I understand the idea, it just seems that emotional space would be that much easier to create when physical space is there as well. This is what I've noticed: when I am taking the kids away overnight or I'm on work trips, the stress level and tension over these issues dissipates. I am physically apart from my W and I sense more peace. I'm thinking about a future without her as my W where I am free from the nonsense, rejection, and disrespect.

As a man I want to take leadership of the MR and fix these problems. I know that is not the DR way ("you cannot fix her, for you did not break her" is one of the first things DnJ wrote to me).

I turn 40 next month, perhaps that is why I'm having a hard time with the "patience" thing. I feel the sands of time slipping through the hourglass.

[Ready2Change]

I turn 40 next month, perhaps that is why I'm having a hard time with the "patience" thing. I feel the sands of time slipping through the hourglass.

Just some perspective. I was 40ish when I went through this. I am in my late 50s now.

As a man I want to take leadership of the MR and fix these problems.

You fix it by not trying to fix it. It is counter intuitive. You focus on fixing yourself. All relationships are 50/50. You have just as many issues as she does. She is a mirror to help you address your issues. You can still take a leadership role (in all areas as needed).

[MrP]

Hey Maturin. I'm just playing catch up after enjoying some of my last holiday time off. I wanted to comment on a few things from your earlier post.

Only you can decide if you're truly ready to call it quits. As other continue to suggest, if you are divorce "busting" in the sense MWD describes "you have to be patient, very a patient". IMHO, it seems stil early in your process. To me (and I can be wrong) it sounds like you're interested in moving out to avoid discomfort, rather learning master that discomfort so it has not power over you, especially in your own home. Don't move out, at least not w/o talking with your L first.

You asked the "how long" question so let me share a bit of my story. The first time I DB'd with my W, we'd been at it for ~1-2 years. The MLC that begain prior to the pandemic seems to have resurfaced now (about the 4-4.5 year mark from BD1, with menopause now adding fuel to the fire) and lead to BD2 a few months ago. We pieced then R'd up until a few months ago when a conflict between my W and my mother re-opended old wounds for W. For the record, I had my W's back. It led her to feel like maybe she "just isn't cut out for all the comes with relationships".

At the same time, because I've been continuously working on myself and seeing an IC, I've felt better since the end of year two to early third year. I am the prize. I feel good about the work I've put in. If our M ends in D this time, I will feel a better sense of closure. I am confident I'm going what is w/i my control . To me, that is the point each of us has to arrive at in whatever time it takes (within reason) to be in the right place to decide to pull the plug.

In my experience, it is normal to wonder if you're crazy, missing out, wasting time, and similar things while going through it. Feelings...nothing more than feelings...as an old song goes. It feels very Star Wars-like (yet appropraite) to suggest that you master your feelings or they will master you. Anxiety is a bundle of those feelings. If you're not familiar with Acceptance and Committment Therapy (ACT), I recommend looking into it. I found it helpful in taming GAD and being better at DBing.

Also, no saying I love you, especially if doing so feels uncomfortable. Too soon. We've talked before about both experiencing temperature checks and, to me, those sounded like temp checks by your W. Picture cheese sitting on a trap next time if she says those words again and avoid that bait.

[Maturin]

Thanks MrP, I will look into ACT. And I like the cheese on a trap visual.

[Maturin]

Lying in bed last night I had my usual pre-sleep clarity, which normally goes something like this: MR was struggling for a couple years, I was unaware of how bad it was and what I had done to contribute. W strayed, lied, and partied for years, creating more distance. I slowly woke up to my own part in the troubles and began turning my life around. My confidence has grown from "this is going to suck but I know I will be okay if our MR ends" and is now approaching "I won't tolerate another day of this". I say "approaching" because it isn't there yet so I'm being patient. I believe I've said this before on the boards, but the pre-sleep clarity always includes a moment when I think to myself "Why didn't I just kick her out the day she admitted the A?" The answer is fear. Fear of being alone, or getting the shorter half of the stick when it comes to friends, kids, sex, and life in general. So much of this process has been overcoming the fear and I make it my daily task. A line from a song I like says "Change will come to those who have no fear", which I have modified only slightly to "Change will come to those who face their fears". It is now a mantra of mine.


Anyhow, today feels like a new day. I am jam-packing my weekend with GAL activities, about half of which involve the kids and the other half are just for me.

[MrP]

And, sorry for the amount of typos. No more responding from an iPad or phone for me!

[DnJ]

Good Morning Mat

seems that emotional space would be that much easier to create when physical space is there as well.

Yes, physical space does influence that. Yet, that sword cuts both ways.

My W left the night of bomb drop. I immediately had lots of physical space. The pain, the loss, was near indescribable. Detachment was still a struggle, even with 100% physical space.

Just some more food for thought.

After all, one cannot un-ring a bell.

I turn 40 next month, perhaps that is why I'm having a hard time with the "patience" thing. I feel the sands of time slipping through the hourglass.

Yep. Transitions and pressures. Perfectly normal for one to feel such as they morph to the next stage of their life.

I’m 56. Successful, happy, confident, and at peace. Some things that worked for me:

Get your house in order. That’s internal. Who you are. What you stand for. For me that was a continuation of being responsible and accountable. I worked hard. Didn’t take shortcuts like fellow workers during training and such, so I actually knew my job inside and out.

Age brings opportunity for career advancement. I’ve had those fellow workers confide in me their doubts and fears, how they feel like an imposter in their work roles. Such is the price for “life hacks” and shortcuts. Take the long and patience road. Do the hard work. It really is its own reward.

Same for family and friends. Double down on what is truly important. Hug your parents while they are still here. BBQ, vacations, spend time with your kids while they still want to be with you , and while they still live under your roof. They move out far too soon.

Open and honest. Live that! Lies and untruths, have a price that eventually comes due. Be extra cautious of the lies one tells themselves. Always seek the light, and walk within its grace.

If you’re going to do something, do it right. When you do something, do a quality job. To the best of your abilities. Be it building a staircase, or hugging your kids. Bring the best version of you.

This time is the highlight of your work life and family life. This is the time when one is building upon their foundation. Later, golden years, this time is looked back upon as accolades and accomplishments, or as regrets and things put off.

For me looking back, the sands of time are more a companion than an adversary.

Time is a gift. Invest well.

Fear of being alone, or getting the shorter half of the stick when it comes to friends, kids, sex, and life in general. So much of this process has been overcoming the fear and I make it my daily task. A line from a song I like says "Change will come to those who have no fear", which I have modified only slightly to "Change will come to those who face their fears". It is now a mantra of mine.

Fear

Yes, facing your fear, letting go your fear, is one of the major hurdles/milestone along life’s journey.

For what it’s worth, it’s less overcoming and more making friends with your fear. Fighting begets fighting. Emotional understanding, acceptance of your fear is a powerful and profound thing.

Anyhow, today feels like a new day. I am jam-packing my weekend with GAL activities, about half of which involve the kids and the other half are just for me.

Perfect!

Have a great weekend.

D