24 (thread 2)

[Rockon]

“ I would suggest if you wanna save this marriage you need to be the best job opportunity she has.”

That’s what I’m going for but not with the outcome that the marriage has to be saved. I am the prize. I am not telling her any of this. Though I have told her that I don’t want to go back to the old marriage.

[JosephS]

I’m glad I finally hit home on something lol. I’m doing my best to give advice like you aren’t screwing with us, but Rock, I meant what I said. You have to be a stronger man to find a good woman.

Her coming back at this point, it just isn’t advisable. She hasn’t learned a darn thing, isn’t sorry, doesn’t want this anymore.

Rock what every single person doesn’t understand when they get here (and I am absolutely included in that) is though this new creature that’s rearing its head is new to you, it’s not to her. She was just hiding.

What every single person that initially comes here fails to see is, divorce busting isn’t for your partner, it’s for you!! No matter if you save the marriage you will save yourself. Now idk about you, but my ex sucked, but I was not the picture of a perfect husband so regardless if she came back or not I needed to work on me. My old marriage was over before I even knew it, literally. However, I still did the work and tried for myself and my kids.

Going on 4 years later, looking back on bomb day…man was I ugly crying that night lol, I’m so damn thankful I’m not in that marriage. Oh no, no I do not wanna spend every single freaking day wondering if this is coming again down the road. That’s who I am as a person, I would have tried to fix it, and went right on back to the old me and the old me would have spent a lot of time trying to be a private investigator. The trust was just gone and boy it wasn’t coming back and quite frankly who wants to live like that? Not me. But others are different and can move on from that, so I do try to help.

Here’s the kicker Rock, no one said 5 years down the line you wouldn’t reconnect after time apart, time to move on, time to change, time to be appreciative of what we have and not what we don’t. Maybe she’ll learn the grass isn’t greener on the other side, maybe she’ll learn it’s greenest where you water it. Maybe she won’t but as long as you are out there living your best life it doesn’t matter if she does or doesn’t.

I suggest lawyers for you, because having one and using it would be a 180 and show her you took them out of her purse when she wasn’t looking. Absolutely no one said you can’t file and than take it back if you both want too. Just one man’s opinion.

[Valeska19]

Joseph has alot of good points Rock.

Change is scary... especially when one "feels" something is at stake.

It would be nice for us to see you make some decisions versus copy and pasting some of the vets' advice. Not really to show us anything - but because you have to live with your decisions and be able to look at the man in the mirror.

A long time ago in my thread - my ex wanted to be friends. She had made amends (she was in a 12 step program) and the board advised me that I try... To act happy and then see if she comes around. But I didn't take their advise. It was too painful for me and I didn't want to be her friend. Today - I still stand by that decision. Turns out she already was in a new relationship. That woman would become her next wife. Years of pain I dodged by staying true to myself.

I don't know if you are able to choose yourself on your own yet. Mostly because you write very vague. Some mention the word "troll" but for me - it feels like more of an "ai bot". Whether that's true or not doesn't really matter... I just hope you can see that YOU are the only one that can make the best decisions for yourself.

[Rockon]

Thank you Valeska

[Ready2Change]

R2C can’t walk you through every conversation, email, text. No one here can.

I agree. The goal is for you change (improve) the way you interact with her (and everyone else).

There is no magic bullet, only your ability to make changes. You have hundreds of other men to observe, and if you see them getting better results, grab some of there beliefs and behaviors. Test them out. Do they work for you? If so, keep them, if not, drop them and stay on the look out.

[Rockon]

Taking some time this weekend out in the wild to reflect rest and refresh. Some prayer, exercise, exertion and rest and solitude. Doing some reading.

I had been working everyday since new years getting ready for the school term as well as other work. Everything altogether was a lot with staying on track with my wellness and healthy habits I have established but I am there. But has it ever been good to take these last 2 weekends off and get away!

DnJ etc I’d like to seek your input and advice. So far I have been putting my plans in place and have undertaken a healthy approach to my finances etc while following though on my legal responsibilities and sticking with what was working reasonably well in how I was managing my separate finances as well cooperating on the shared financial picture with W.

L is drafting the separation agreement and I consider this stage to be where W and I have a chance to negotiate so that we can inform what goes into that separation agreement.

So far, W has balked at my email inviting her to send me her proposal for me to look at even after I clairified that I meant - how she proposed to split up our marital assets.

Here I hopefully get to my question. When I told W be email that I was at the place in my return to work where I am able and want to cover the whole mortgage, she said she thought that was too much to ask of me and she contributed half the mortgage to our shared account as she has been doing. I have reached out to L to navigate this and would like to read your perspective.

Here is what I think I do from here while awaiting input from L:

I continue at this stage to contribute the whole amount of mortgage and accept W contributing 1/2 and I cover utilities maintenance and upkeep of the home. If the shared mortgage funds become adequate I can propose that we take a break from contributing.

What do you see as the best way to manage the tenant rental income ? Tenants rent a suite in the marital home. So far that rental income has gone into our shared account and we have budgeted from that for shared expenses. Would you suggest I propose a change with that?

Thanks for giving this some thought with me as you have some time and from your experience.

[DnJ]

Hello Rock

I’m happy to chime in. It also gives me a break from my cleaning.

A separation agreement is similar to a divorce. It disentangles the couple’s shared financial interests. It also clarifies their ongoing shared interests and responsibilities. It is legally binding. It is a business deal.

A separation agreement is the prelude towards a divorce. It also serves as binding agreement during the cool off period. However, it is not “quite” written in stone. A separation agreement can/may be subject to change when one actually files for divorce. Usually, with no significant changes and/or conflict, the in place agreement was followed and lived with for the cool down time period (or more) and then is just forwarded as the divorce agreement.

Legally, the separation agreement at date of signing, legally cleaves the relationship. There is a time frame when in, if the couple does get back together within a certain time, the agreement and all legal changes therein become null and void. It’s like it “legally” never happened.

Anyhow, to your queries (and a few other items/thoughts).

When I told W be email that I was at the place in my return to work where I am able and want to cover the whole mortgage, she said she thought that was too much to ask of me and she contributed half the mortgage to our shared account as she has been doing.

I continue at this stage to contribute the whole amount of mortgage and accept W contributing 1/2 and I cover utilities maintenance and upkeep of the home. If the shared mortgage funds become adequate I can propose that we take a break from contributing.

I am surmising you want the house.

L is drafting the separation agreement and I consider this stage to be where W and I have a chance to negotiate so that we can inform what goes into that separation agreement.

So far, W has balked at my email inviting her to send me her proposal for me to look at even after I clarified that I meant - how she proposed to split up our marital assets.

Your lawyer is drafting a separation proposal. It becomes an agreement when both parties sign the dotted line. You likely would forward your signed proposal to W for her signature or her counter proposal (actual sending and receiving done by lawyers). Be sure you are satisfied with what you propose, as W might accept it.

Unfortunately, W’s balking at your email did limit the first volley of negotiations. She may contact you after receiving the proposal and be willing to informally converse about things. Or she may not.

Remember this is business. So, keep it so. Assets and liabilities. Custody is likely a non-issue for you.

Starting point:

The proposed date of separation. Could be date of draft or date of W moving out. The later has some advantages. The cool down period might be considered already expired. It shows precedents with a two year informal arrangement/agreement.

Joint monies: 50/50. Pretty easy for cash, accounts, and other liquid assets. Investments and such are more difficult to split. Pension falls into the joint investment category.

Individual assets: Usually each person’s. However, there may be some legal definitions that make some things joint ownership.

Liabilities are similar. 50/50 and each to their own.

The house: As I said, I surmise you’d like it. So, buy her out. Assume the mortgage, and pay W half the accrued equity. (Having a separation date from two years prior will likely have you owning W a bit more equity due to your period of not working full time.)

The tenet income: Take it over. This is a separation. Do not remain in a joint business venture with her.

Alimony: If you are responsible for paying her alimony, you could offer an upfront lump sum payout for her to waive alimony. Or higher monthly amounts for a fixed term. Or go along with whatever the calculations state.

If you are entitled to alimony, you may consider her house equity instead of some or all of monthly alimony.

Or you two are matched and there is little to no disparity. Maybe your two pensions equal out too.

Without actually knowing the amounts I cannot offer much concrete advice, other than there is wiggle room. House equity, business buy out, alimony, pensions, and the 50/50 stuff. All of it can be negotiated and/or waived.

Add in material assets. Basically, your clothes and stuff is yours, and her’s is hers. Pots, pans, appliances, furniture, etc. - a few ideas. Firstly, if W has anything she is really wanting, an heirloom or some such (and you are ok with it), list it and ensure it clearly shows it’s her’s. (And a little goodwill might help.) After that, I’d likely suggest an overall value for all the household stuff which will just stay with the house and you, and just give her that amount on her side of the balance sheet. Selling and splitting up the profits seems too time consuming.

An important clause my L included was that at the time of the signing of the agreement whatever properties, not including listed items, that are in each other’s possession becomes their property. It helped so much. My house wasn’t a storage place, nor a shopping mall that way. Once signed, anything she hadn’t picked up became mine.

What do you see as the best way to manage the tenant rental income ? Tenants rent a suite in the marital home. So far that rental income has gone into our shared account and we have budgeted from that for shared expenses. Would you suggest I propose a change with that?

I’d leave it all as is. Let the mortgage funds accumulated. Just keep track of everything.

Precedent. Don’t mess with the demonstrated history here. W has been able to support herself and not wanting the house for two years.

This is business Rock. You are undertaking cleaving all financial ties with her. That’s the goal and outcome with such an agreement. Like I said, be sure you are satisfied with what you propose, as W might accept it.

D

[Kind18]

You need to grow a pair, Rock.

Where do you see yourself in ten years from now - still coming to an internet forum with random people to ask whether you should say “Hello” or “Greetings” on your next email to her? Or whether to wear black or white socks next time she comes to the house?

You need to read the Buridan’s Paradox:

A donkey, who is hungry and thirsty, stands equidistant from a pale of water 5 metres on his left, and a bale of hay 5m on his right. He is so unable to make a decision on which one he should go to first, he remains paralysed and dies from starvation and dehydration.

That’s you. You’ve been here so long now, and you still can’t make a simple decision. DBing forum isn’t for advice every day on every tiny little decision to try and trick your spouse back - it’s about learning to do it FOR YOURSELF. Growing up. Trusting yourself. Being a man.

I don’t think you should be coming here for financial settlement advice, given you are incapable of making a strong plan and being resolute with your ex-wife.

That’s why you have a lawyer. They know the rules in your jurisdiction, they know what you are likely to end up with, and they can take the weight of dealing with a PITA witch off your hands.

On average, you only get 80 laps around the sun and you die. How much longer you going to waste on this?

[Rockon]

Yes, D, I want the house. It’s a great house, its home and it serves me and our family very well. Great neighbours and community. I can see being in this house for another 20 years or longer it’s that kinda place. Of course I’m open to exploring a better fitting place if my situation and needs warrant it.

[JosephS]

Unless you have the funds to buy her out of her portion you need to consider she’s gonna force you to sell. She’s making sure she’s still financially involved in that house so that’s all you need to know.