1 month in, still lost - MLC, OW, WAS

[MistyDD]

Thanks Kind. The DB book has just arrived today so I'll get stuck in about it later.

He thinks marriages can't survive affairs because he doesn't know anyone who has and a few that didn't (likely those that has were kept quiet). I did show him that stats to support it though.

I'm unsure how to handle the whole thing about whether I would take him back or not. He was saying to me that he felt I wasn't devastated by losing him but that I only wanted him so that I wasn't alone. This came about because:

In the aftermath of BD, I listed off a load of physical features I disliked (in all honesty I was clutching at straws but wanted to hurt him). I then told him all his character flaws. He began to think I was only putting up with him and didn't really love him. That I was only devastated at the thought of being alone, not because I'd lost him.

I countered that by writing a list of all the things I love about him and sending it by text. I then wrote it in a letter for him to keep. He didn't read it till last night but really appreciates it. He's written me a similar list by text today.

I'm struggling with handling the affection too. My mum left a week ago after having been here for a month and he's slept in my bed ever since. He hugs me so tightly like he doesn't want to let me go and I often see him staring at me from the other side of the room. He demands hugs and even when I don't reciprocate, he grabs my face and makes me look at him whilst telling me he still loves and cares for me.

I sat him down this morning and said we need to start sleeping apart again as it's messing with my head, giving me false hope and it isn't fair when I'm not his no.1 anymore. He still continued to cuddle me though. He admitted it's unfair and says he does it because he still likes me, thinks I'm sexy and it feels nice to cuddle up with me. He gets tears in his eyes when talk about it.

I guess he's got doubts, isn't quite ready to let me go and I'm not quite strong enough to fully enforce the boundaries that I need to.

[DnJ]

Good Morning Misty

The DB book has just arrived today so I'll get stuck in about it later.

Excellent.

He is aware that I would take him back.

He needs to feel the loss of you before he might alter his path.

I'm unsure how to handle the whole thing about whether I would take him back or not.

That decision is a ways off at the moment.

However, alter your mindset.

You likely wouldn’t, don’t, want H as the currently confused guy he is. You don’t want to be plan B. You are the prize!

So, if/when he gets his mess/life cleaned up, you’d be willing to explore the possibility of you and him. To see if there is any spark, any chemistry. To see if you actually like him. To see if he likes you; the new and improved you. Remember, you ain’t going to be just sitting around, you’ll become MistyDD2.0.

I guess he's got doubts, isn't quite ready to let me go and I'm not quite strong enough to fully enforce the boundaries that I need to.

Out of those, you can only control the second one.

Utilize healthy boundaries, 180, focus on you, GAL - in short DB. (will make much more sense after you read DR) DB will save you and gives you the best chance at saving your marriage.

Time and space. Let H’s doubts and feelings work for you. Let his guilt, regrets, shame, and such speak in his mind. H’s affection, attention, cake eating, etc is him trying to quash those feelings within him. Deflecting, running, and such.

I sat him down this morning and said we need to start sleeping apart again as it's messing with my head, giving me false hope and it isn't fair when I'm not his no.1 anymore.

Good.

Keep moving forward.

D

[Sunflyer]

Hello Misty!

However, alter your mindset.

You likely wouldn’t, don’t, want H as the currently confused guy he is. You don’t want to be plan B. You are the prize!

So, if/when he gets his mess/life cleaned up, you’d be willing to explore the possibility of you and him. To see if there is any spark, any chemistry. To see if you actually like him. To see if he likes you; the new and improved you. Remember, you ain’t going to be just sitting around, you’ll become MistyDD2.0.

This is so, so important and for me is the core of DB. Keep repeating what DnJ said to yourself: "You don’t want to be plan B. You are the prize!"

He's going to make you feel guilty, like all of what he did was your fault. You know better. You may have made mistakes, developed bad habits, whatever. But there's another thing people say around here: You don't have the superpower of controlling how someone else feels. You can't make him be unhappy or have an affair. He could have made better choices that could have taken him out of the thicket of unhappiness. Better ways to deal with the marital problems. But he chose what he chose; you didn't hold a gun to his head.

I am eight months out from BD. My wife is in her second affair in a year. I can promise you that if you follow the advice you are receiving, your outlook will change drastically no matter what happens with your H. I am having thoughts about myself and my future that I wouldn't have dreamed I'd be having eight months ago, when I felt crushed. When I think back even further, to the man who married my wife all those years ago, it's almost like I don't recognize him.

I sat him down this morning and said we need to start sleeping apart again as it's messing with my head, giving me false hope and it isn't fair when I'm not his no.1 anymore.

That's the way to do it! You deserve a man who wants only you in his life. Right now, he is not that man. Not treating him like he is will be better for your mental health and make him realize you aren't about to plead for this attention that he suddenly claims is so important.

[Sunflyer]

Quick follow up:

I just reread your first post and sure enough, he's blaming you for everything. Classic playbook.

His AP does not sound like a good risk, to put it mildly. I see some parallels between your husband's situation and my wife's. Her current AP is younger than her and (a lot) younger than me. He's coming out of a marriage that lasted less than five years and is currently living in his parents' basement.

What attracts wayward spouses to these "stellar" prospects instead of working to improve what they have right in their hands is something I'll never understand.

[MistyDD]

The DB book has just arrived today so I'll get stuck in about it later.

I've just realised I ordered the Divorce Busting book. Divorce Remedy is now also on order.

He needs to feel the loss of you before he might alter his path.

This is what I keep telling myself. He clearly felt it more when I was resisting his advances and he was trying harder and harder.

I'm unsure how to handle the whole thing about whether I would take him back or not.

That decision is a ways off at the moment.

I guess so. Because of his wavering I did want to make it clear to him that I'm not pushing him out of the door - it's his choice to go.

You likely wouldn’t, don’t, want H as the currently confused guy he is. You don’t want to be plan B. You are the prize!

So, if/when he gets his mess/life cleaned up, you’d be willing to explore the possibility of you and him. To see if there is any spark, any chemistry. To see if you actually like him. To see if he likes you; the new and improved you. Remember, you ain’t going to be just sitting around, you’ll become MistyDD2.0.

It's a very good point. I think even at this junction, he'd be better alone for a bit to see how it feels. I also feel if he stayed now it wouldn't be for the right reasons. He needs to be alone and probably with the other woman to truly know what he wants.

Time and space. Let H’s doubts and feelings work for you. Let his guilt, regrets, shame, and such speak in his mind. H’s affection, attention, cake eating, etc is him trying to quash those feelings within him. Deflecting, running, and such.

Ahh, he needs the reflection time alone without me around. Although he'd spend it constantly messaging the OW anyway (time differences depending). Although he says he doesn't do it whilst I'm in the same house. So maybe I just shut myself up in my bedroom.

The other things that have been noticeable is how often he calls me by terms of endearment - darling, honey etc. So much more than he ever did before. Plus when he hugs me, it's like a bear hug and he spends ages caressing my head, hair etc. Rubbing my feet. Begging for cuddles. When he kisses me, the passion in it is like the first time. It's like we're strangers to each other, just getting to know each other in that sense. Very weird.

[DnJ]

I've just realised I ordered the Divorce Busting book. Divorce Remedy is now also on order.

Divorce Remedy is the second/upgraded version of the Divorce Busting book. MWD added some more content and modified/updated a few ideas and such. I believe she mentions some of the corrections she makes too. It certainly doesn’t hurt to read both.

[MistyDD]

Hello Sunflyer!

This is so, so important and for me is the core of DB. Keep repeating what DnJ said to yourself: "You don’t want to be plan B. You are the prize!"

He's going to make you feel guilty, like all of what he did was your fault. You know better. You may have made mistakes, developed bad habits, whatever. But there's another thing people say around here: You don't have the superpower of controlling how someone else feels. You can't make him be unhappy or have an affair. He could have made better choices that could have taken him out of the thicket of unhappiness. Better ways to deal with the marital problems. But he chose what he chose; you didn't hold a gun to his head.

Oh absolutely! Thing is, we weren't unhappy, I thought we were stronger than we'd been in years. He has some underlying issues of not feeling happy and relaxed at home as he felt I was always expecting him to do stuff even when he was exhausted. A simple conversation could have resolved that!

He also blamed me for the affair saying my complaints about the inappropriate friendship made him cross as he didn't believe the OW was interested in him. So because he was annoyed at me, he spent more time with her and messaged her even more! I said to him 'Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? That instead of listening to his wife's feelings and putting her first or even introducing his wife and his 'work best friend' to prove that there was nothing in it, he decided to get even closer to the OW!!'

I am eight months out from BD. My wife is in her second affair in a year. I can promise you that if you follow the advice you are receiving, your outlook will change drastically no matter what happens with your H. I am having thoughts about myself and my future that I wouldn't have dreamed I'd be having eight months ago, when I felt crushed. When I think back even further, to the man who married my wife all those years ago, it's almost like I don't recognize him.

I'm sorry to hear that and I'm hoping that the changes you see in yourself are positive ones.
It's been almost a year since I first started having suspicions about the friendship.
9/10 months since I first accused him of having an affair.
7 months since they admitted their feelings for each other and 6 months since he told me he'd fallen out of love with me and didn't have feelings for me anymore.
So it's been BD after BD.

That's the way to do it! You deserve a man who wants only you in his life. Right now, he is not that man. Not treating him like he is will be better for your mental health and make him realize you aren't about to plead for this attention that he suddenly claims is so important.

Ahh, this is where I'm finding it so hard!! He's acting like he wants me to chase him and tell him how much I love him and only him and that I'm devastated by the loss of him. Which will be boosting his ego as he's got two women chasing after him. I've been thinking he needs to know how much I still want him, otherwise the OW seems the obvious (only) option. But it seems in doing that, I'm only devaluing myself.

I felt that if I backed off and acted like I don't want him, this justifies his decision. But actually when I was pulling back from him, he seemed more upset and more like he was doubting himself.

Misty

[MrP]

Hey Misty. As suggested above, there are some differences between the two books; I've found them both useful. I wanted to echo what you've heard from D and Sun. The idea is that you do such good work on yourself that you re-establish confidence in yourself and other qualities that help you feel better about yourself. Simultaneously, others find you more desirable to be around.

Marital expert John Gottman has a good book called Making Love Last that includes a chapter on infidelity. You may be able to find it at your local library. You may have seen that MWD also has an entire book on healing from infidelity. It may be worth skimming both of these to determine if you can do what needs to be done to get past these affairs.

Nobody has the power to control you unless you give that power away. He made his choices. You made yours. I don't think we all recognize this "free will" enough. As D or Sun said, it just isn't a superpower that exists. Whenever I hear someone say "X made me do this/that" it drives me crazy because, in your situation, you would've had to literally help them have sex, in-person, for your H's statement to be true. He didn't like something you said or did and then chose (poorly and immaturely) to have a PA rather than talking with you, seeing a MC, or a better solution.

It sounds like some time apart, even if only mentally since you're still living together, would be best for both of you. He needs to see that his life isn't so great, including when you're absent from his; and then you can't be blamed for causing his unhappiness.

[MistyDD]

Thanks Mr P

I'll take a look at those books too, very helpful. I've read some of Gottman's 4 horses of the apocalypse theory online.

In fairness to H, it wasn't a PA. It was a work colleague friendship that got too close and became an EA and they fell in love. Then she went away for 5 months with no contact and then he snuck around behind my back to see her. They were in a relationship within a day of us breaking up but have only kissed so far.

Time apart would definitely be helpful. We'd had the odd night apart in hotels prior to breaking up, when things got too much for me and he was missing me then.

Even last night, I went to sleep and he couldn't help himself from coming into my bedroom to wish me goodnight and give me a kiss and cuddle.

Weirdly he's also doing things I'd been asking him to do for years. DIY, decluttering. Some grooming/health issues that will ultimately benefit the OW but still strange to start when he won't see her for 4 months.

The strangest one was that he cleaned the bathroom properly for the first time ever. He's always cleaned the bathroom but wouldn't move storage shelves to mop underneath so I always ended up doing it. It was a minor bugbear but not something we really rowed over, just a gentle nag. This week he did it my way and made a point of telling me so, but not in a nasty manner, more of a recognition that he'd always avoided that step.

I do keep in mind the saying 'he needs to feel the weight of his life' as the consequences of his choices have not fully hit him yet.

[MistyDD]

I just reread your first post and sure enough, he's blaming you for everything. Classic playbook.

I'm realising now just how often he did that throughout our marriage. I hate conflict and people being upset with me so I'd bend over backwards to appease him. I even talked to him about it, told him he made me nervous when he was angry and mentioned how at times like this, he'd get more sexual favours. He'd never realised and looked ashamed and apologised to me.

His AP does not sound like a good risk, to put it mildly. I see some parallels between your husband's situation and my wife's. Her current AP is younger than her and (a lot) younger than me. He's coming out of a marriage that lasted less than five years and is currently living in his parents' basement.

No-one thinks it will last. She is needy, insecure, childlike, immature and needs constant reassurance. He's not good with empathy and his love language is acts of service, often around food and alcoholic drinks, neither of which interest her much. She's 35, still lives at home and hasn't had a relationship longer than a couple of years. Also claims she doesn't want children as she's 'too old'. They bonded over discussions about their wayward childhoods, childhood photos, music he listened to before he met me, food he loved growing up etc.

There are so many red flags.

What attracts wayward spouses to these "stellar" prospects instead of working to improve what they have right in their hands is something I'll never understand.

I don't get it myself. He's leaving a comfortable family home to move into a shared house, living in one room, likely with an uncomfortable bed, mismatched furniture, rotas for cleaning and using bathroom/kitchen. Leaving almost all of his belongings behind, giving me everything. He can't drive and may not be able to take his bike so will have to walk or take a cab everywhere. Has high debts so cannot buy a house. He's attractive but overweight, balding and has some health issues. It's hard to see what a younger, slim, pretty woman would see in him.