MLC Hubby wants to move out

[RegretfulLA]

Hi friends,
Glad this site is still around and thriving. It was so helpful to me 10-12 years ago when I first started DB'ing. (YES, it works, and we survived!)

I can't say the last 10 years have been easy... many bumps in the road but reading my old posts, it's a GD miracle that we didn't D back then. Things were really brutal at times, but with time, we've mellowed... old hurts have healed, we have come back together, and drifted apart again...

Yesterday we celebrated our 23rd wedding anniversary, and it was actually lovely and we had some good conversations about "us", but H is dead set on this idea of moving out and being a "bachelor".
We are approaching an empty nest with S18 leaving for college in Sept and H is just convinced that he needs some time on his own. The problem is, we have no money for this.

I'll try to keep this story short but H had a semi-traumatic upbringing with a very unstable mother who was in and out of the house. She also had psychiatric problems. She was loving, but extremely unreliable. (I am the opposite: extremely reliable, not super lovey-dovey).

Last summer, H's grandma died and H's mom, who was already in poor health, ended up in a psychiatric hospital. Now H's mom has her psychiatric issues under control, but has lost nearly all of her motor function and will probably be in a nursing home from here on out. Understandably, this has taken a toll on H.

H worked for a company that had an unsuccessful IPO and we went from being fabulously wealthy (on paper) to having a little extra money for a nice vacation in reality. This also really set him back emotionally. He was also laid off from this company in their scramble to resurrect their stock price, which couldn't have been too great for him either.

H suffers from depression generally and has been taking meds for a while now. H has never really resolved his mother issues and they have filtered through into our M. He has always been somewhat reserved and never truly vulnerable. H is now able to hear this and accept that he needs to work on his mother issues to get over this R hump.

One day, in November 2023, I was looking at my Kindle and I noticed some new books in there (we had a family account). MLC's take all different forms, but my hubby's MLC apparently is all about kinky sex; the books were about BDSM and polyamory. All fine, not really my bag though. It came as a shock but sort of opened up some lines of conversation. (The lines of conversation started with "WHAT THE F, H?!!!")

I had surgery back in October 2023 and H has cut off sex since then. H could have gone to sleep in S20's bedroom (he was at college but is home now) but he did not.

Fast forward to now, H has decided he needs to live alone to figure out his [censored]. The good news is that we're talking more, communicating better, through all of this. He has also mentioned that he might want to see other women but he didn't want to open the marriage. Then he said he wanted to talk to our sons about this and I said ABSOLUTELY NOT... Not until he has a plan... which he doesn't. H has said he doesn't want a D, he just wants some space... is that having his cake and eating it too? I don't know.

This fool is probably thinking about liquidating his 401K so he can fulfill his MLC fantasies. That's reason enough for a D! We have a guest house in our backyard but that's not enough separation for him. I told him (and he listened) that he was being EXTREMELY selfish and he actually agreed. Ironically - he's been nicer, kinder, more open, listening more... and maybe it's because I have just backed off...

The first thing I did when he started the "I want to move out" conversation and I could tell he wasn't just blowing smoke this time - i bought another copy of DR. I had given mine away to a friend whose H walked out on her. I feel like a DB pro at this point... these techniques feel like second nature after practicing them for so long, but they work.

Other books I have been reading:
The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlesinger - I don't subscribe to a lot of Dr. Laura's theories about feminism and whatnot, but she makes some good points about not being a bitch and treating H like a man and not a child.

The Shut-Out Wife: Breaking Through Your Husband's Midlife Crisis by Debra Macleod, BA, JD. - I'm about halfway through this one - pretty similar to DB/DR but really focused on MLC and all it's fun flavors.

Anyway - glad to be back after such a long time and looking forward to hearing from y'all.

[job]

I am so sorry that you have had to return. However, we are still here and others will come along and chime in when they have time.

It sounds like your h did not fully resolve all of his issues years ago and now, MLC has come back around and is raising its ugly head once again.

You know the drill...listen, don't offer advice unless asked, set up separate accounts for yourself, watch the joint accounts and just be a friend. As you already know, you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. However, you can prepare yourself for him possibly taking a flight on the Mother Ship.

I am so very sorry that you are here once again. Please take care of yourself. As always, keep the focus on you and what you need to do to protect yourself.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

I am sorry you find yourself here for a second go around.

I agree with job, it sounds like H’s unresolved issues are resurfacing. The death of his grandma; his mother’s failing health; loss of his employment; his loss of wealth and status; the pending and very healthy and normal empty nest with both boys out in their own - all very triggering events for (re)kindling his crisis.

It’s interesting how they drop the bomb on special dates too. H revealing his “grand” be-a-bachelor plan during your 23rd anniversary celebration. Of course, he has no idea how to fund his plan. He will be guided and act upon how he feels at whatever given moment.

Do financially protect yourself. Speak with a L and see/know your rights and options. Just gathering information, you need not act on anything. Yes, H could do something like drain his 401k, or worse. Ensure joint martial assets cannot be remortgaged or liquidated or some such without your consent! If you need financial protection and/or security - get it. Leave all the other heavy lifting to H.

Time and space. H is asking for it, and is driven to it. Even the guest house in the backyard is too close for him. His confessed wanting to see other women and whatever other behaviours/running-away-from-his-demons-and-not facing-his-problems ideas he has; he is mixed up. Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.

If/when H demands more space, you could cease laundry services, meal preparation, etc. Letting him feel the loss. You kind of got to let H steer his path/journey and let him lay in whatever bed he feels he needs to make. Difficult to predict what path H will go. Stay/leave, wallow/run.

What type of MLCer do you see H as? High or low energy? Boomerang? Clingy? Vanisher? To me, H sounds like a low energy clingy wallower. Well, so far anyhow. Once they settle into their crisis, they usually do not alter their type. To be clear, their path is likely the same, it’s just a matter of speed and level of destruction along the way. And all are slow! In speed, I mean their ping ponging about and jumping to their next behaviour in the futile attempt to keep their demons at bay.

You likely know you cannot steer this crisis for him. Efforts from you will be pushed backed on by H. Such efforts would end up being twisted and used for his anger/justifications/narrative towards you. Remain kind and cordial, with rock solid boundaries against disrespectful behaviour, and let H be. You know, focus on you.

We are here for you. Take care of yourself.

D

[RegretfulLA]

Thank you my friends. Currently H is out on a man date with his friend who is getting D. Bad. I don't like that. I like the friend and I think his D situation is different as in, W is driving it. Also, his cousin is having a MLC - met man at gym and decided he's gay. Third friend, also D - and he's been speaking to these three A LOT.

Could I get some more detailed advice on the financial stuff? I currently manage our accounts and watch like a hawk. In order to alleviate his own guilt, H is trying to do this "nicely" so I don't imagine that he would drain our accounts but I guess anything goes in MLC. I do need to figure out how to protect my assets and speaking to L is a good idea.

Believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.

I forgot about that one. I wish I could not believe him when he says that he's going to move out. He's been so nice and reasonable and not bitchy lately, I can hardly believe that he will leave. But maybe he's being nice because now he feels like a weight has been lifted. It's pleasant. We are getting along. H has noticed my positive change in attitude but it hasn't changed his mind. H has been threatening S/D for years and this is the first time he ever seems actually serious about it; e.g., I can see it's not coming from a place of anger/reactivity. He is calm and it's scary. He seems to want to move on as "he can't imagine spending the next 30 years of his life this way".

H says he sees us as "friends" but I don't see that... he doesn't act like a friend most of the time. Today was rough... S18 and S20 are both struggling in their own way and I told H I was at the end of my rope. He said, "The men in your life!" Then he washed the dishes and spoke to S20 and tried to be reassuring. S20 is a total handful and having him home from college adds a lot of stress to the household.

It’s interesting how they drop the bomb on special dates too. H revealing his “grand” be-a-bachelor plan during your 23rd anniversary celebration.

@DnJ - he didn't exactly break this news on our anniversary. I think he just has finally verbalized it and has decided it's what he "must" do. It was actually better than our 18th or 19th anniversary when I ate dinner by myself and then went to the movies by myself.

What type of MLCer do you see H as? High or low energy? Boomerang? Clingy? Vanisher? To me, H sounds like a low energy clingy wallower.

Yep - definitely a low energy wallower, but not really clingy. Avoidant. Rejecting. Stoic. I'm new to the MLC game so these classifications are all news to me!

Remain kind and cordial, with rock solid boundaries against disrespectful behaviour, and let H be

I have always been pretty good at GAL but it is hard to do when hurting. DB is hard, hard, hard. I already did lock him out of the bedroom over the weekend when he said he'd be home at 9:30 and wasn't. At 11 pm I didn't call, didn't text; just locked the door and texted him "sleep on the couch." Next morning he says, "Why did you lock me out of the bedroom?" And I said, because you didn't come home when you said you would, and I was angry. I need my space too."

A much older (and maybe wiser) person once said to me during first DB "Why would you want to be with someone so weak?" This sticks with me and I think about it all the time. The fact is, if I had a million dollars lying around, I would probably be more enthusiastic about H leaving. For me, the financial piece/security is pretty important and at this age, I'm not super optimistic about finding someone new. Yes, I'm only 53, but... ugh. Dating! It bothers me that the money is a factor, but that's just reality. Money is a big factor.

Has anyone made it through an MLC without some serious collateral damage?

And also - the stages of an MLC - are those for the MLC'er or the LBS?

Ok, that's enough for now. I will probably be on here rambling a lot just so I can get my feelings out. I'm pretty shell shocked, and combined with S18 leaving for college and S20 being intolerable, I am hanging by a thread. (At least my job is good - during last DB I was unemployed).

[job]

The stages of MLC are a guide, not set in stone. Each person is unique, therefore, their crisis will be unique. Some display similar traits, but because their childhoods are very different, they will act out differently. Keep in mind that depression is the main element of his crisis and he will be emotional as well.

About the stages, they are out there to give you an idea of what they do. The traits and the lengths of time will vary. Some go through the crisis quickly and others will be slow, i.e., like turtles. They tend to bounce back and fourth in the first 4 stages and some even bounce around until the very final stage which is actually acceptance. When he has finally completed his journey, he will reconnect with all in the exact opposite of how he entered his crisis.

From what I am reading, I would say he is going to be going out with the man who is going through a divorce. They tend to hang out with people who are separating/divorcing or already divorced. They like to hang out with single people as well. Right now, he is going back in time to the teen and/or early 20's years.

As for your finances, you may want to consider setting up a separate account just for your use. Invest in some gift cards just in case he decides that he is going to go on a spending spree. You will need to have a nest egg in case that happens.

Make a list of questions for a lawyer, but do not share the info with your H. Also, do not share anything that you read about MLC, especially the stages and this site. All of this information is for you, the lbs. You will not be able to convince him that he is in crisis. Yes, he has an inkling something is wrong, but it is going to take him a long time to figure it out. He will hit that brick wall many times over and until one day, he will tire and finally sit down and contemplate his life. Some never do this.

Do be sure to visit the other threads on the forum. They will help you along the way.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

Could I get some more detailed advice on the financial stuff? I currently manage our accounts and watch like a hawk. In order to alleviate his own guilt, H is trying to do this "nicely" so I don't imagine that he would drain our accounts but I guess anything goes in MLC. I do need to figure out how to protect my assets and speaking to L is a good idea.

Good. Keep an eye on the accounts.

Some ideas for you. If any resonate with you and/or if your situation warrants them (in no particular order):

- Pay off joint credit cards. Cancel joint credit. Get your own credit card(s).

- Have your own bank account. Invest monies into it. (However, in most locales all monies are marital assets to be split if things go that road. A L can confirm your locale’s guidelines and laws.)

- job’s suggestion of purchasing gift cards is a good strategy for socking away some funds too.

- Ensure you are an authorized owner on all household bills and therefore allowed to alter or cancel any/all services. Lots of stories of folks being held hostage on an internet provider or cell phone bill by their angry spouse who won’t make/allow/do any changes.

- Speaking of cell phones. Split up the bill. Let H completely pay and look after his own phone. Along with his own credit card(s). You look after your stuff. Keep your credit score in your hands.

- Cars. Are you joint owners? Are you registered as such? Make sure you are listed.

- Same for other big ticket items. Motorhome, camper, cabin, whatever.

- Look into investment accounts too. Ensure you have full access to anything joint or your’s.

- Ensure you have access/authorization to whatever health insurance you currently have.

- Limit, no, remove H’s access to stuff that is your’s. Period. No discussion with him.

- Transfer half of joint assets to your personal account/control. (Again, a L can assure the legality of such action.)

- Document, document, document. Keep track of everything you do.


When I went through my situation, it was amazing how many providers, businesses, institutions, and such we/I dealt with. Lots of accounts and business relationships to notify/organize. Even down to the kids’ school/university accounts for tuition and music lessons. Post office box. Shares in the local co-op. There is a lot of things acquired in decades of joint living.

On another, yet related note. My Dad is in a care home, which leaves my Mom living on her own in “their” house. She was not listed on many of the bills and providers and services. We found out many problems during one of Dad’s grim episodes. He was unresponsive and quite disoriented for some time. Found out that none of the businesses would even speak with Mom as she was not an authorized person on the account. (At the time, she was having phone and satellite TV problems and we could not get anywhere with them.)

When Dad came back to living and lucid, a few things got “fixed”. Mom, and I, were listed on all bills and household/life items. I was included, for what happens if Mom gets sick or incapacitated. Which brought up, power of attorney. Mom for Dad, and me for both of them.

As I said, lots of things to organize. When it’s all going well, we have no idea. When things go awry, it’s a mess. Getting/having things organized before, is so much better and less stressful.

Yep - definitely a low energy wallower, but not really clingy. Avoidant. Rejecting. Stoic. I'm new to the MLC game so these classifications are all news to me!

MY XW was/is a high energy vanisher. She burns the candle on both ends. Heck, she’d burn it from the middle if she could. And she’s a vanisher. Poof. She left me, the kids, friends, family, pets, etc. Dropped the bomb during Thanksgiving supper and ran off with OM. All the way to his house 1/2 mile away. He’s my neighbour. And ex egg man. LOL! (Contrasted to Pattnee’s H who ran to the opposite of the globe.)

The fact is, if I had a million dollars lying around, I would probably be more enthusiastic about H leaving. For me, the financial piece/security is pretty important and at this age, I'm not super optimistic about finding someone new. Yes, I'm only 53, but... ugh. Dating! It bothers me that the money is a factor, but that's just reality. Money is a big factor.

You are on two paths or journeys.

One is the emotional/healing path. Detaching; finding indifference; letting go of fear, ego, H (let go or be dragged); discovering your convictions; finding understanding, compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness. Becoming the best version of you.

The other path is the business side of the situation. The bills and kids stuff. With both sons being over 18, custody is not an issue (just major financial expenses like tuition and such). That leaves the finical stuff. Joint expenses and splitting of assets, anywhere from current status to fully financially separate. There is a lot of room along that scale.

While traversing either path, stick to that path. Do not mix business with your healing. Do not mix emotions into your business direction and decisions. Yes, the two paths do/can complement each other, and there will be some overlap. Do effort to keep the delimitation between the two paths as least nebulous as you can.

While on the business side, remain business-like. Facts, logic, reason. Look to those when making plans or decisions. You don’t have a million dollar hidden somewhere (I didn’t either. Nuts!), yet you have something. Do you own your house? No mortgage? Or do you rent? Know your assets. Etc. Speaking with a L will show you your best case and worse case scenarios, and your likely case, if H pushes things all the way to divorce. Information is power! Then, now, you can make forward business-like plans.

Yes, financial protection and security is very important. Especially at our ages, or older. I’m 56. My work life, and opportunities to earn are mostly behind me. Security and protection are much needed/important than when I was in my twenties.

As I mentioned, lots of room along the financial scale. Lots of room to negotiate. The big thing from my experience, you have a much better chance at agreement or the MLCer following through if they feel/think the idea is their’s. Let H lead the way. Takes some finesse sometimes, and in no small part biting one’s tongue. (An example of overlap there. Good for business and your healing. )

I’m a big proponent of leaving the heavy lifting to the spouse who is wanting out. However, ensure you have financial protection and security. If you need it, if it’s lacking - get it!

Has anyone made it through an MLC without some serious collateral damage?

MLC is horrible! Absolutely horrible!

There is plenty of damage. And lots of collateral damage. The term Bomb Drop is most apt. However, the damages do not cease after BD. Depending on the MLCer, their running behaviours, their past unrealized unreconciled traumas, pains, and torments there will be more waves of destruction.

So, no. There is always serious damage, both directed and collateral. The big question and focus of the LBS - has anyone healed from such damages?

Unequivocally, yes! People can and do heal.

First and foremost is the LBS. That emotional/healing path. You and the kids and friends and family. All can heal. All can come through this, better than before. Most LBS would not, even if they could, give up their hard-eared gains to not have their situation happen. The journey we were forced upon is that profound. It’s a golden opportunity. Do the inner work. Grow and heal.

Does the MLCer heal? Maybe. Some do. Some run for the rest of their days. Their path, the damages they inflict upon us, is more about them than us. In fact, their destruction of self, that drive and need to relive their youth, to relive all they feel they missed out on, damages them far more than the collateral pain to us from the shrapnel flying around.

And also - the stages of an MLC - are those for the MLC'er or the LBS?

A link to a nice summary/guideline of MLC stages:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484752

Remember, it’s a guideline. Everyone is different and individual, therefore their crisis is different and individual. Yet, there are similarities, an almost script they more often than not do follow.

Running/replay is by far the longest of the stages. Their running behaviours and activities are bewildering and quite irrational. Realize the MLCer is driven emotionally. They are simultaneously trying to numb their pain and darkness while trying to feel something. They are consumed by their depression and unrelenting unreleased past and demons.

They become the opposite of who they were. Desperately trying to find happiness and end their pain. And desperate people do desperate things.

The LBS usually gets blamed for the MLCer’s pain. The MLCer doesn’t realize, cannot accept or look towards themselves or their past (yet) as cause. Their hurt/broken mind simply cannot for they would shatter. As such, they blame their spouse, or kids, or dogs - whatever, whomever is close by. The LBS getting the lion’s share of that.

MLCers display a lack of empathy; their empathy chip is broken. A result of their own emotions being cranked to eleven. They have no bandwidth for anyone else’s.

Plenty of less than stellar decisions, behaviours, and life choices occur when one is so consumed. So desperate. So depressed. Emotional decisions lead to regret. So, on top of everything else, the MLCer behaviours and such, deepen their turmoil.

The LBS has stages as well. Basically, following the steps of processing their grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Our situations are multifaceted, and we exist in and experience many stages at the same time. As we heal, as we release our anger and accept, more things are revealed to us. New items starting their own grief process, while others are complete or nearing acceptance.

When starting, detachment is the single best thing one can do. Becoming no longer uncontrollably dragged around by our spouse’s words and/or behaviour. It’s the first major milestone along our journey. A journey made up of many small steps. For me, some were just getting out of bed, or speaking with a lawyer. More and more steps. Slowly they accumulate. And before you realize you are somewhere else.

To that end, it’s good to figure out one’s headings. Those deeply held values, convictions, and beliefs. Strengthen those which serve, craft those which you aspire to, and discard those which no longer serve. Feelings are fleeting, and thoughts flit just as easy, yet beliefs are slow to change. It’s that quality that makes one’s values excellent headings. The shortest way through this quagmire is a straight line. The less one slogs around in circles the better it is.

Anyhow, just some thoughts for you during this raining day here. I had plans to paint some windows. Ha, the rain put a stop to those.

Hope you have a great day.

D

[RegretfulLA]

Just a quick reply for tonight. I was in charge of S18's baseball team banquet and H stayed to help me clean up. He could have gone home with S18 but he stayed and help me put everything in the car. Didn't help me get it out of the car but I'll take what I can get.

I sense that he's putting some level of effort in despite his stated goal of moving out. He knows (somewhere deep in his brain) that my love language is acts of service, so I feel like all is not lost. He really wavers between being "normal" and being short tempered but I guess that's all par for the course.

He was out very late on his man date but he did text me at 10:30 to let me know that. I have known this friend as long as I have known H: 40 years. We all met in middle school, which was called junior high back then. I have no problem with his friend, but I did find out that friend is D'ing W and not the other way around.

[RegretfulLA]

Hubby informed me that he's "going back on" his antidepressants. I had no idea he had stopped taking them.

We are going to Portugal next week as a family. Let's see how we do.

[job]

Enjoy your trip. I hope that everything goes smoothly while you are away. I am glad to read that your h is going back on his antidepressants. That's a start.

[RegretfulLA]

Today I noticed that H was not wearing his wedding band. I guess that's par for the course. It was so hard to bite my tongue and not say anything but I did it. I found his band on his nightstand. I wonder if he will take it with him or leave it here?

He is talking to me a lot about stuff going on at work and he even asked me how my day was going yesterday, but I think that H does not see that kind of conversation as part of what M is. I don't think he understands that having someone to listen day in and day out about work is one of the benefits of M. Maybe he will understand that if/when he moves out.