Grief and Gratitude, Grok - Shifting

[grok]

Repost of previous thread last post...continuity.

snippets

D19, "Daddy, come home soon. I don't like being a pseudo-parent."

G, "I will be home early Friday afternoon. You are doing fine. Don't stress and don't take on too much for yourself. You aren't the parent. Just let me know."
....

S12 caused an uproar the other evening. As he is learning to used the stove and oven he sometimes make a mistake. Last evening D19 asked him to make her some turkey bacon strips. It is something he knows how to do. This time he left a plastic lid on the glass stovetop "burner" where it partly melted and burnt.

The fumes are of course acrid and this freaked out D17 who was over the top scared and angry for her Cockatiel, Green-Cheeked Conure, and 4 chicks (sensitive to fumes and smoke). I was on a video call with them at the time and remotely mediated / supervised recovery operations. Doors/windows were opened, fans were set up, D17 and I went on a video call walk so she could express her fears and anger without yelling at her siblings.

G, "Yes D17, IT IS scary thinking your birds could die. Yes, FEELING angry is normal. Let us work on what to DO about it."

Birds and their cages got moved into D19's car with running air conditioning. D17 sat with them. We agreed that an hour after the house seemed aired out would be OK to bring them back in and put them in a bathroom on the other side of the house with the door closed.

I had S12, with D19's assist, scrub the stovetop with a vinegar and baking soda paste. Several rounds later it appears to be cleaned.

None of them gave any indication throughout a couple hours, of wanting to call W over to help. Huh...I'm 750 miles away.
....

10p tonight, D17, "I'm having S12 do chores. Dishes piled up and I don't like it. D19 left medicine cups all over crusting up and she needs not to do that. She's not that sick. I think the dogs have been fed, but I'll check and make sure..."[I]

G, [I]"Don't stress over all the things. It is bed time. I'll help set everything back to right and routine tomorrow."

D17, in her I'm busy voice, "I know daddy. I'm not stressing. I just don't like it and need to get some things done first."

G, "OK D17, Thank You for helping and making sure things get done."
....

It's 11p. I have to get up at 4:30a to go to the airport. D19 is in bed, I just directed S12 on brushing his teeth ASAP and go to bed. D17 and W are emotionally arguing downstairs in the dark kitchen. W seems to be justifying her choices and actions as God's will, seen through signs shown to her, ... it is all necessary to prepare her for something in the future.
....
highs and lows
I have amazing kids. I have a good job. I have pretty cool and flexible workmates and associates. I have a home and car. I had delicious upscale tacos and craft beer with teammates while laughing about drinking games made up to go with tonights US presidential "debate." I speed walked 5.8 miles along the beach boardwalk today. It was a beautiful day. Listening to -

Life is Good by Courtnie Ramirez ft. Apollo LTD

Thought I lost my joy but then I found it
Now all I wanna do is talk about it (all I wanna do)
Even when the world has got me stressing
I'm just gonna lean into the blessing (blessing)
No more second guessing
...
Throw my hands up, see the blessing all around me
No I can't help myself, just wanna sing about it
What can I say?
It's a beautiful day, I'm feeling like I should
I'm giving a place for all the ways that life is oh, so good

(chorus)
Oh, gonna let myself go
I'm feeling the freedom rise up in my soul (it's so good)
Life is good, life is good, yeah, it's oh, so good
Oh, no holding me back
'Cause I'm holding on to this hope that I have
Life is good, life is good, yeah, it's oh, so good


g


Previous Thread

[grok]

Shifting

Sitting in airports today. Kids keep asking when I'll be home. Even when I'm not trying to make them my validation...it does feel good. They have done so well this week substantially on their own.

Thinking on what to name the next thread had me contemplating my changes, how I feel differently from last spring and from when I started posting, how I've structured or not life with three children and me as W seems to pull back more, ... and I'm not sure I can easily define or encapsulate them.

So ... Shifting. Perhaps readers can see it better from outside.

grok (understanding) continued

Mach1,

Go ahead and recommend more threads. I've read through several more in the mean time. Some like me and some very different in values and outlook.

To the others also, please don't take lack of specific replies to be me not paying attention. I am. I think, just like the WW/WAW, but for very different reasons, I have limited bandwidth. Reading and thinking during the day takes dispersed effort... writing/posting coherent thoughts takes a lot more for me. I find my efforts and hours have truly been re-prioritized this last year.

g

[grok]

Independence Day

Happy Independence Day all.  It's been a pretty good week since I got back home last Friday.

D19 has been exhausted with her return to work while not fully recovered from illness.  Last day of antibiotics today.  She's had a tough time with those pills as she can't swallow them. Old issue with a tongue tie.  We have to crush them and mix into something she can swallow.  They taste terrible no matter what.  Tears.  and while I was gone, "Momma doesn't do it right daddy!"  Finally on day 7 we hit on mixing crushed pills with a green health drink.  Sleeping 10 hours and napping for hours also.

W texted me ~10p last night wanting to take the kids out for brunch.  She planned on showing up at 10a absent any other notifications.  The last minute late at night irked me a bit so I waited and replied after I had breakfast this morning, "I'll have them ready at 10.”. And so I did, as the kids didn’t seem to have any urgency to go. They were back by 1130.  

I made my own brunch just for me with a delicious omelet (Italian sweet sausage, fresh little onions and mushrooms, bell pepper and cherry tomatoes, feta on top) along with homemade bread with local peach jam.

Everyone seemed tired so I decided it was a rest day. Everything can wait. D17 and S12 were now complaining of pain/illness symptoms. A quiet mid day and everyone took naps. Some fun after with a BB gun and bow/arrow in the back yard. Something we picked up when D17, S12 and I had taken a trip to Bass Pro Shops last weekend while D19 napped. Then the movie “Independence Day” just for fun. D17 spent the movie yelling at the characters for their bad choices.

By the time the movie ended, it was time for our own fireworks. As usual, I had purchased 30 minutes worth of firework fun for the kids. It was fun with D19 jumping up and down with her excitement. D17 and S12 were feeling worse by now and sat out half of it. With how they described their symptoms I decided to take them in to the urgent care clinic tomorrow morning. And sure enough, S12 measured 102/103F now just before bed. Frustrating as he had a mile fever last Saturday but it had gone away since then! Cold medications for all and to bed.

Meditations on Blame and Forgiveness

I had a couple days of a single band playlist while driving.  Themes resonating. My own thoughts will have to wait for time to write. It’s almost midnight again.

What if we all just have different failure modes?

Only with the right motives can blame be placed…and dealt with.

Blame - Collective Soul

When you're willing to render
To the guilt you concede
When truth is your reason
Then lay the blame on me
When you unveil a conscience
And with peace you agree
When love is your constant
Then lay the blame on me

Question your answers
Your truth has no anger
Gather up your words
Redemption now offered

Leading to ...

Forgiveness - Collective Soul

In my silence, I would love to forget
Restitution hasn't come quite yet
And with one accord I keep pushing forth
While I stretch my heart to heal some more
....
As my seasons change, I've now grown to know
When one's heart creates, one's soul doesn't owe
So I wash away stains of yesterday
Then tempt my heart with love's display

It used to be all I'd want to learn
Was wisdom, trust, and truth
But now all I really want to learn
Is forgiveness for you

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

I have trouble swallowing pills too. Kind of funny as my regiment has had me on a weekly dose for years now. One would think it be easy by now. Alas, no. I do find it much easier to swallow pills when they are “hidden”; not just in water. My go to favourite is tomato juice.


Blame and forgiveness.

The road to forgiveness start with identifying the hurts and transgressions. And yes, assigning blame.

This blame does need to be expressed, and it is normal and healthy to for it to be expressed as hate. Ensure you assign/choose the correct/appropriate target(s) for such hatred. The deed. The transgression. Not the person. That is a key distinction.

Such hating, and for the moment unforgiving emotions, do feel powerful. Watch out, it’s an insidious trap. A deception. For it only masks our pain, our hurt, our vulnerability. That strength is an illusion. It keeps you shackled and stuck.

In time, and with purposeful conscious choice one starts to let go. To write paid in full on that invoice we are carrying in our heart. To no longer define ourselves as victim.

That previous distinction between sinner and sin becomes evermore important. Only God can forgive a person, a soul. We mere mortals do not, cannot, see all ends. Trying to forgive the person places one on some moral high ground. Looking down and deciding who to dispense to forgiveness upon or not. That is folly!

For, if one had lived, endured, the same pains/path as our spouse, would we have done similar? For me, I do not know. It’s easy to think I’d/we’d never do such a thing. It’s easy to blame and hate. Take the next step.

We let go our hatred. We open ourselves up to God. Open ourselves up to our own pain. Repeatedly. Often. And the wisdom/forgiveness seeps in:

Love the sinner. Forgive the sin.

Forgiveness is so much more powerful, yet doesn’t feel it. Peace feels oddly less and yet much much more. Freedom from those feelings of retribution, grudges, and such. A peace and contentment which is quite literally difficult to imagine until you are there.

We get out of the way, and let God take over. And the big reveal, it’s our life and journey we get out of the way of. Forgiveness is about you. Letting go and moving forward in your healing.

It is amazing!

One day, you wake up and find yourself thinking, feeling, and even believing differently about that person/transgressor. You will even pray for them. Sincerely, pray for them.

Your hurt has diminished.

You realize you are free!

You might not like them, yet you do forgive them. And forgiveness does not preclude holding them accountable.

It makes little sense until you find your way. I’ve had many people tell me they’d never forgive someone if they did that to them. Or what XW did is unforgivable. Non-forgiveness, or more correctly not forgiving, is a common view, especially in our society where we are bombarded with blame-filled messages all the time. It’s all around us, blaming and hating.

Let go. Be better, not bitter.

Be a beacon. Walk in the light.

You’re on the path. Keep moving forward.

Have a wonderful Sunday.

D

[Mach1]

Hey G,

Just swung by and saw your message.

The next set of threads are from a guy that I am proud to call a friend IRL.

I've often looked at the journey that a man has walked as a testament to his character. And I would venture that this journey that has been archived is one of the more inspirational ones that I've had the pleasure of reading.

I think that looking back, the majority of his posts on his threads were about defining his stand, his thought process in understanding what it meant to stand, to be a man, and mostly ?

Defining what true love meant to him. What it takes to love another person, and what that meant to him.

I hope you enjoy reading him, I certainly enjoyed walking beside him.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=27019


Hope things are well with you....

[grok]

Thanks Mach1,

things are ... well, I'll quote someone else's words from this forum, for what to tell people when they ask. "I'm doing surprisingly well!"

It is both true and helps reset my focus ... to doing surprisingly well. The majority of days anyway. The words we use and how they affect our internal trajectory. After getting nuked from orbit...recovery is uneven and will take a while.

I've started through Truegritter's threads. I've seen the name talked about in some of the older threads before... Too many tabs open on my browser saving each bit that resonates.

Instead of a song, how about a quote found in The Beauty of the In-Between by Mathew Nelson -

Prayer of Teilhard de Chardin -

Patient Trust

Above all, trust in the slow work of God.
We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay.
We should like to skip the intermediate stages.
We are impatient of being on the way to something unknown, something new.

And yet it is the law of all progress
that it is made by passing through some stages of instability—
and that it may take a very long time.

And so I think it is with you;
your ideas mature gradually—let them grow,
let them shape themselves, without undue haste.
Don’t try to force them on,
as though you could be today what time
(that is to say, grace and circumstances acting on your own good will)
will make of you tomorrow.

Only God could say what this new spirit
gradually forming within you will be.
Give Our Lord the benefit of believing
that his hand is leading you,
and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself
in suspense and incomplete.

—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, SJ
excerpted from Hearts on Fire


g

[grok]

Kinda quiet around here last few days.

S12 and I are at a “lock-in” campout at a local church tonight. It’s hot and he fell asleep for a nap though the sun isn’t down yet. He’s still recovering from the sick/fever that has gone through all three kids now. Just a cough left for him. D17’s fever left last Monday so she went back to gym on Wed and Thur. W pushed her to do so, “you are fine,” after I told D17 I would support her staying home another day or two if she needed. She still had a hacking cough and exhaustion. Thursday night D17, ”Daddy, I feel hot. I don’t feel good.” Yep. She measured 103F. No gym on Friday, today, for her. More rest. D19 seems to be just about back to normal.

W? She did come over at noon for an hour or two each day I was at work. She brought the kids sugar free sodas. And some strawberries. Goodnights at the curb seem to have diminished in time to like 5 minutes instead of 30 to 40. She texts the kids that she is there now, not me. D19 came to me one evening, ”Dad, I told mom she could come in tonight. She needed to use the bathroom. She’s not feeling good.” The dogs went a little nuts. She doesn’t take the little dogs with her anymore. The kids seemed to be irritated that she came in and caused disruption to the evening routine. Just observing behaviors.

That Date of Destruction

This morning I received a text from W: ”It is past the 30 days and I did not receive a notification of a court date. Could you let me know if there are any Mondays or Fridays you’ll be unavailable over the next month, and when I call to talk to the clerk, we will choose the best date and time possible for less impact on your work.”

Evidently she never noticed the emails the court sent or they are in her spam folder. The court set a date of 9/11 in their email to me. Apropos date of destruction. I haven’t replied yet. I was feeling too snarky. Resisting something like, ”Yes, the court picked an appropriate date for the “chaos and destruction” I told you this would cause.” Should I forward my own emails from the court? Tell her to check her spam folder? Suggest she contact the clerk and make sure her email is correct? What is detached non-emotion based….? The message brought up feelings mild anger, irritation, and nausea. I emotionally do better just living my life with running dark. Living my life without thinking about this.

Readings

Well, … the number of themes expressed in this forum all in one paragraph.

The Beauty of the In Between - Matthew Nelson

“I’m fearful that far too many people want the great ending without the backstory. We want the benefits without paying the price. Again, we want the rewards without embracing the process. If we can skip the period of discipline, difficult decisions, perseverance, and anonymity, then why wouldn’t we simply choose to walk into success? The backstory, however, shapes who we become. It’s a necessary part of the process. Difficult things produce the most lasting and fruitful results. In fact, unless we surrender the results to God and embrace the reality that we may not ever be “successful,” then we will remain trapped in the cage of our expectations Great stories do not come easily. Somewhere along the way, somebody made a series of extremely difficult decisions, sacrificed something great, and repeatedly chose to get back up after facing failure.”

- What price will you pay?

- Trust the process.

- You won’t give up who you become from this backstory.

- Do the work.

- {Re)Define successful.

- Let go of your expectations.

- Difficult…Sacrifice….CHOOSE to get back up after failures.


g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Glad to hear that everyone is over whatever bug when through your household.

The duration of W’s roadside goodnights is some of the settling that occurs. Along with her directly informing the kids of her arrival. I’d not be surprised to see her start missing days too. Even getting to no goodnights. That is the likely evolution of such visits.

The kids seemed to be irritated that she came in and caused disruption to the evening routine.

Yes, kids, us, are all creatures of habit. Part of their healing is forming new routines (they had to after all) and Mom interfering and messing with their now comfortable nighttime routine will not go over well. They would not likely tolerate such disruptions for long.

As to the court date snafu. Which isn’t really, sounds like W just flaked or missed an email.

The message brought up feelings mild anger, irritation, and nausea.

Well done identifying and listening to your emotions. Really good to not respond while emotionally stirred - giving yourself that 24-48 hour buffer.

You have a couple of choices: Say nothing and let her contact the courts and get her stuff straightened out on her own. Or you can provide some level of guidance and/or information.

The first, remaining dim/dark is fine. You have no need to let her know your schedule as it already decided. Letting her feel and figure out her court dates is part of that heavy lifting. It’s ownership and responsibility of her ensuring her divorce process stays on the rails. 30 days and she hasn’t hear anything and didn’t do anything. Not really your problem, you have your information. She’s a grown woman, and she fired you as her supportive husband; allow her to feel it. To lay in the bed she made.

The latter choice is also acceptable. Be it at a minimal level, IMHO. You could let W know you received an email from the courts weeks ago and she might want to contact them to ensure her email correspondence is working correctly. You could provide her the date, although I’d lean to not.

With a court date and appointment for deliberation/negotiation, do you have a L? I suspect you do. At such a point into this process I’d be more dark and leave communications and the keeping of things running smoothly to my L. Not placing boulders on the path, nor paving it either. Also keeping your mental and emotional health a priority.

I’d likely go with option one. Like I said, W likely flaked, or it’s her attention span like that of a gnat, or she’s playing you and digging for information, or whatever. Nothing you need fix or control. Focus on you.

How was the campout? Did S12 and you have a good time?

D

[Ready2Change]

This morning I received a text from W: ”It is past the 30 days and I did not receive a notification of a court date. Could you let me know if there are any Mondays or Fridays you’ll be unavailable over the next month, and when I call to talk to the clerk, we will choose the best date and time possible for less impact on your work.”

Wait 24/48.

Email "My understanding: September 11 at 9am room 13, regards Grok" (or whatever time and place)

then text: "Sent you an email"




This is a business transaction. Treat her respectfully like someone you don't know. (for example:a hostess at a restaurant) No emotions.

[grok]

Thanks DnJ, R2C,

Lost Court messages found

I was figuring on giving it 48 hours over the weekend. I’m busy with my life you know…. and just over that mark, Monday morning, I received, paraphrased -

”I know you don’t want to do some things by message, but DO want to do others by messages. I am calling the clerk’s office and know you are on business travel next week. Are there dates you will be unavailable? I will be asking for Mondays or Fridays if they allow me. Do you need to go in the day after? If you want, we’ll discuss it in person.”

It felt like…see how reasonable I am, now do this on my timeline. So I waited until the evening and replied ”I checked yesterday. I received email from the court last month.”

Then I walked away from devices to be PRESENT. One of my 180s this year since I have been such a technology/gadget/information junkie.

I found later messages in succession ”Was there a date?” “Never mind, I see it”

As far as I can tell, I’ve never preferred a particular communications method. I just use what seems to suit when I decide to respond.

Monday Homeowner blues

In the mean time, D17 came to me last night about 10p and asked if it felt hot in the house. We went to the thermostat and checked. It read 79F but set to 76F. Uh Oh.

She’s smart and has been down this troubleshooting with me before. ”Dad, let’s check the condensation outlet overflow pan first. Since if it gets full it trips the safety cut off.” We checked, but it was dry. Time to check outside. A few months ago it was the outside air handler fan blades had broken loose from the collar holding it to the motor shaft. Now the compressor was cycling on for 30 seconds and then off again. The fan blades were NOT turning. The fins were HOT and the fan motor body was HOT.

^@#$%#%#@.

It is 10:30p.

Kids are almost in bed lights out.

It is 85F outside at almost 100% humidity.

The AC is NOT working.

-PAUSE-

Man Up G, yes it [censored], yes it will continue to suck, just execute. Those with a Mil background will know:

Embrace the Suck

I spent the next three hours finding tools, meters, and YouTube videos to help walk me though checking some system aspects related to the fan motor. I stripped a set screw also. The motor had mild resistance to turning. Sigh. By 2am I was going to bed having ordered a motor start capacitor, a contactor, a motor, and fan blades on Amazon. There was no definitive solution with all I tested. Order of likelihood is capacitor, motor, contactor. I don’t have time for this. I’m leaving on business next Monday. And the last technician had quoted 4X the price I was buying parts for on Amazon. I’ll be able to start replacing parts on Wed.

By 6:30a this morning after a few hours sleep I messaged one of the guys I support and asked to borrow his portable AC unit. Sure he says, let’s meet at the lab across town. We’ll sync on what equipment is going where and I’ll hand you the AC unit. With that running all day our downstairs area has been kept to 79F while upstairs reached 90F. I worked from home at the kitchen table in that balmy 79F.

The following messages…what?!

Then, just about at the end of the work day I received the following from W (paraphrased) -

Good afternoon. I received the alimony checks, for June and for July. 2 out of 18 installments. This message is to make you aware of two checks coming to you on July 23rd equaling the payments. These are to go toward paying for my car, please, and are paid of my own free will without your request or coercion. Do not bother increasing your amount. Stay on schedule. Do not bother returning this money to me—I will pay it to you again and this will become a farce.

I would also like to get together after the divorce is final and give you back all money that you consider yours. If that is all of it, then every last cent will be yours. If you do not believe me, pick a lawyer and we will set up a date. I would be happy to write this statement out and get it notarized or find someone to draw up a contract.

In our SIGNED Legal Settlement, I accepted the vehicle low interest debt in exchange for keeping more investments. This seemed reasonable to me. It is a legal contract and I’m not about to break it. I can stuff what she sends me into a separate account for now or just keep track of the amounts or ??? She is free to do what she wants with the Alimony monies. But sending it to ME? How does this affect the agreement if she pays off a debt I accepted as mine?

And then the second part…. I’ve never felt or indicated that I considered anything but half our assets mine. I regarded US as a 50/50 partnership no mater who was earning at the moment. This is what the SIGNED Legal Settlement reflects. I have stated this outright to her. And once the assets are in her name alone, she can’t just give them without a huge “gift tax” penalty.

I’m not sure what to think about any of this. Or how to reply. I asked the ladies at the pub trivia night. The only one who ventured an answer suggested that if she is planning to hook up with an OM, she doesn’t want the OM to get ahold of it. Out of Context problem.

Rise by Shawn McDonald

Sometimes my heart is on the ground
And hope is nowhere to be found

Love is a figment I once knew

And yet I hold on to what I know is true



Yes I will rise

Out of these ashes rise

From this trouble I have found

And this rubble on the ground
I will rise


g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Nice to see W found/figured out the schedule without too much fuss.

Unfortunate your AC quit working. The symptoms you describe certainly sounds like a blown starting capacitor. A locked rotor condition would cause substantial heating of the motor and its windings. Usually such a condition would operate some protective device - fuse, circuit breaker, and such. Perhaps that particular motor has resettable overloads. The high current heats the tripping element, and shuts off the feed. The motor and circuitry cools a bit, the overload resets, reenergizing the motor, and starts the locked rotor process over again.

Sounds like you have proper replacement parts coming to get the AC up and running in short order.

She’s smart and has been down this troubleshooting with me before. ”Dad, let’s check the condensation outlet overflow pan first. Since if it gets full it trips the safety cut off.”

I like her troubleshooting mindset.


As for STBXW,

For what’s it’s worth, keep to your side of the street with the alimony payments and if W wants to send you extra funds, so be it. There are many soon to ex-spouses, or ex-spouses, that will go through a “generous” period. A time where they try to alleviate their guilt and shame. It usually doesn’t last too long. Sounds like she is well into it. Even offering to get her offer notarized or drafted by a lawyer. For whatever her reasoning (and that word is used rather lightly here) she feels it important that you believe her and her sincerity in this.

I would suggest simply reply: Thank you. I will remain on schedule.

I’d touch base with your L, just to ensure no future problems can arise with this gifting and paying funds to you. You may indeed have to claim such as income and pay some tax; not at the top of the list of terrible problems.

I do empathize g. I am a recipient of that weird generosity. Feelings, like guilt, will stir and float about. You know there is/was no coercion, no strong-arming, nothing like that. And you know you cannot control her. Allow her do as she will. Use the extra funds for the kids. Not to worry, there are plenty of expenses with kids. Lol!

Hope the AC is back up and running soon.

D

[grok]

AC and Quick update for now

for STBXW's response needs its own post. I did send her "Thank you. I will remain on schedule. Also, received a charge of $120 for XYZ.com. Is this your subscription?"

I did not reply. I have been stopping my logic and need to explain. To try and fix faulty thinking. I know her response is based on emotion...how she FEELS right now. I'm working on not letting it occupy my head and heart space or disturb my peace. Application is always different than intellectual knowledge!

Secondary project. WHY do her responses trigger certain responses in me?

DnJ, I'm glad to see your analysis matches mine. Always validating to see someone agreeing! The motor does have thermal protection circuits. And going WAY back with EMEC and building design factors classes ...most of these should be induction motors (starter cap is a big clue) which will certainly overheat due to high current when stopped.

The AC is back up and working. I decided to try replacing the starting capacitor first as it was the most likely failure point. And it is the easiest to replace...in the rain...LOL. Sure enough, it started up and took the next six hours to cool the house down. It was still working this morning. I'll replace the fan blades when that part comes in and hold the contactor and new motor for a week, just in case, before returning.

Peace of mind while I am gone next week.

On having a L

Since I convinced STBXW to go the fully mediated route through a neutral L, I don't have one on retainer. This is my attempt to minimize cost. To use one where warranted. Where I need to check for known unknowns and unknown unknowns. I have used one recommended by a friend for review of the Marital Settlement and Parenting Plan. He pointed out areas of risk and implications of various choices I could make. He complimented me on putting the children first. Once or twice in 30 years had he seen an ex-spouse allowed back in a home to keep the kids stable. Cake eating? Reduction in consequences? Maybe.

Though it is uncontested, and the terms are fully agreed, I am considering if I should have the L represent me on the court date. A fully agreed package is supposed to be pro forma, as the court has better things to do with their time. but still.....

realization

This is the first time I've used the term STBXW. Huh. I'll have to think on why.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Glad it was a capacitor. Easier repair and back up and running.

The secondary project, the realization, you’re doing well my friend.

I’m on a 6500km road trip / vacation with my Mom and Aunt. It’s to attend a funeral/memorial of another Aunt, and grew into a time away journey as well. Pretty grateful the AC works as it is blazing hot.

Well, off for another day of driving. Take care,

D

[grok]

Safe travels DnJ. That is a long trip...though can be quite enjoyable with good company and fun stops! Sometime I'll have to tell the tale of how my W got her minivan...while on a family road trip from SE USA to NE USA and back again.

Haven't made time yet to write out the latest back and forth with STBXW. Oddities, concerns, and I am definitely on shore trying to be a lighthouse while she is definitely in that rowboat in the waves...

Weekend plans

Prepping today with S12 and D17 for the beach tomorrow morning. Have to go early to get a parking spot. And before it gets too hot. D19 is out tonight on her side gig watching 4 kids for the evening ... after a full day's work.

Quotes

I've been pondering this a bit, since I saw it on X in my feed.

GK Chesterton - What’s Wrong With the World - Chapter 7

"The principle is this: that in everything worth having, even in every pleasure, there is a point of pain or tedium that must be survived, so that the pleasure may revive and endure. The joy of battle comes after the first fear of death; the joy of reading Virgil comes after the bore of learning him; the glow of the sea-bather comes after the icy shock of the sea bath; and the success of the marriage comes after the failure of the honeymoon. All human vows, laws, and contracts are so many ways of surviving with success this breaking point, this instant of potential surrender.

In everything on this earth that is worth doing, there is a stage when no one would do it, except for necessity or honor. It is then that the Institution upholds a man and helps him on to the firmer ground ahead. Whether this solid fact of human nature is sufficient to justify the sublime dedication of Christian marriage is quite an other matter, it is amply sufficient to justify the general human feeling of marriage as a fixed thing, dissolution of which is a fault or, at least, an ignominy. The essential element is not so much duration as security. Two people must be tied together in order to do themselves justice; for twenty minutes at a dance, or for twenty years in a marriage In both cases the point is, that if a man is bored in the first five minutes he must go on and force himself to be happy. Coercion is a kind of encouragement; and anarchy (or what some call liberty) is essentially oppressive, because it is essentially discouraging. If we all floated in the air like bubbles, free to drift anywhere at any instant, the practical result would be that no one would have the courage to begin a conversation. It would be so embarrassing to start a sentence in a friendly whisper, and then have to shout the last half of it because the other party was floating away into the free and formless ether. The two must hold each other to do justice to each other. If Americans can be divorced for “incompatibility of temper” I cannot conceive why they are not all divorced. I have known many happy marriages, but never a compatible one. The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. For a man and a woman, as such, are incompatible."

g

[grok]

What goes on in G’s head, but he stays in STFU / dark mode
- Subtitle, G’s irritation is let out here

Ok, attempt at paraphrasing the next set of interactions

Part 1

Remember this comes after W messages that
1) she is sending back the first two alimony amounts and wants me to apply them to the car (hers) loan I assumed as part of the settlement.
2) wants a different lawyer than the mediator we used so as to “give you back all money that you consider yours. If that is all nearly $xxx,xxx, then every last cent”. meaning the 50% (almost 7 digits) of our net worth….

I’ve never considered any but 50% as mine. We never had a separate hers and mine. Everything has been joint.

Part 2

G, “Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com.  Is this one of yours?”

W’s paragraphs reply shortened to:
- yes, for my gig work
- I will go back to the RV and update
- $xxx can be from over-repayment above
- $xx can be from the ~$xxxx I paid for kids school

G thinks, and stays in STFU mode.
- What it was for didn’t matter, I just wanted to know if it was W’s, fraud, or something of mine I had forgotten about.
- Why would you go back to the RV now to update it?
- I wasn’t asking for repayment.
- I know you purchased S12’s and D17’s textbooks since they arrived at my home.
- You never told me how much $$ of direct school expenses you paid or for what.
- I can’t reimburse you without knowing what you spent.

You see, even before working on a settlement, I said I would pay all kids customary direct costs for school, etc. It is codified in the settlement. All the kids automatic billed stuff comes to me. Every time she has let me know of an expense, I have paid it. No questions. No complaints. I never had expectations of her paying for the children… how is this any different? Peace of mind coming from accepting 100% responsibility for my children. No expectations of W. I’ve seen and heard the unhappy hearts that come from disputes over child support.

Part 3

Continued paraphrased W’s long paragraphs broken apart interspersed with G’s thoughts from inside STFU mode (no actual replies). A little venting here.

W - Let’s not do tit for tat. Just tell me if my expenses. It’s not on purpose.
G - Um, I wasn’t tit for tat. I noticed when checking the card charges this week. A few days later when I wasn’t busy with other things I asked politely if it was your expense.

W - I am paying $2,xxx / month for kids’ expenses, lots of gas.
G - WT*?! Are you spending on? They live 100% with me. D19 pays most of her own share now, part of giving her the safety of home while practicing what it takes to be on her own. They and I go shopping anytime they need clothes, supplies, etc. Everything a home provides I pay for. I pay for D17s sports. And on. Also, gas? You spend on gas because of where you chose to live. Your choice of how much to drive back and forth. Echos from DB forums on accountability for choices and kryptonite

W - D17 doesn’t make her own food to sports and work and I pay the bill.
G - F’n parent up W. That is your choice, not child support. Tell her no, you will not take her out to eat after every single morning gymnastics practice And every single evening work schedule. You can pack a lunch box and so can D17. The fridge and pantry is stocked full.

W - state child support and alimony rules are screwy, though we don’t make them. Child support should be shared the best we can
G - We came to a fair agreement. I pay you a large chunk every month for 18 months to cover both. I only pay at all because we agreed to continue home school and you claimed to be unable to do much work when doing so.

W - I don’t ask for even a tiny bit of expenses the kids cause because asking “may I” is crazy. I don’t care about the agreement.
G - *frustration*. It’s not asking for permission if I already agreed to it. Where does this come from? I just need minimal accountability of telling me how much and for what. Every time you told me of an expense, I have reimbursed with no comment.

W - I don’t mind paying kids expenses. We are sharing kids 50/50, so I don’t mind paying as much as I can. God will provide.
G - I’m providing, still. You have been living primarily off savings/investments I earned for OUR FUTURE. I’ve sent alimony payments to provide as agreed. You JUST SENT THEM BACK!…to pay off a low interest car loan early. Backwards of what any financial advisor would tell you. 50/50? This summer you average 2 or 3 hours each week day with them. You set up your place as so uninviting to them, the kids have not gone over of their own will.

W - I don’t mind helping with the house. I cleaned up the back yard last month and trimmed up the hedges today. let me know if that eases the burden and what else since I am using your space.
G - So….this is … new. Those were misc things that didn’t need doing right now. But you don’t pick up after yourself in the home when there. You don’t take care of your rabbit. Or take it to your place as you promised 4 times. You haven’t touched your stuff taking up half the garage or half the “den” area in months. But the hedges? Oh, and using “my space?” No, you are in my HOME.

W - I will be showing S12’s school for accountability now. Feel free to let me know if you have concerns.
G - Um, OK. I’ve been observing without expectations. Having plans no matter which way you turn out.

Part 4, Next day

W - I’d like to take S12 two states up in early Aug. to see his friend X before the school year.
G - Hmmmm, I have no issue with the trip. This is a ~12 hour drive. Proposed dates are 4 days. S12’s friend X used to be somewhat close but hasn’t been for years. Missing some logic here. Mind reading other motives. Friend X’s mom was one of W’s friends who left her husband. This guy had some real issues. i.e. kids could go visit if W’s friend was the adult in charge, but not if he was. I know, not just think, W and her conferred on divorce and how much happier it was to meet a new man to fill her needs.

To respond
After all that, I haven’t replied yet. Short Simple Business Maybe:

“I have no conflicts with those dates.”

The rest? Seems to be low energy passive aggressive spew. Seems kind and logical at the surface…until you look underneath and know the rest of the story.

Next I need to tell her I’m taking the kids to the west coast to visit my family for a couple weeks in early Sept. And ask if she will take care of the animals while we are away.

Maybe:

“I’ve planned the usual annual trip to visit my family from x-x Sept. Will you be able to take care of our animals for these dates?”

What do you all think?


g

[MamaG]

Hi G!
I often see advice for how to respond to myself and don’t want to send you down the wrong path.

I’m stopping in to say hello. Our timelines are similar, but have certainly taken different paths.This is such a hard road. You seem to navigate the waters well. From my seat, you are very mature, a good dad, and levelheaded. You work hard and keep your head high. You may not know it, but from time to time I look to your posts for a role model. Reading your quotes and listening to how you handle life inspires me to do better. I can see myself in your situation. I also am a leader in IT. I need to keep it together by day. Sometimes it’s just exhausting to stay together when I come home. You handle yourself well and with grace. Your kids are very lucky to have you. Hang in there.

[Valeska19]

What goes on in G’s head, but he stays in STFU / dark mode
- Subtitle, G’s irritation is let out here

Ok, attempt at paraphrasing the next set of interactions

Part 1

Remember this comes after W messages that
1) she is sending back the first two alimony amounts and wants me to apply them to the car (hers) loan I assumed as part of the settlement.
2) wants a different lawyer than the mediator we used so as to “give you back all money that you consider yours. If that is all nearly $xxx,xxx, then every last cent”. meaning the 50% (almost 7 digits) of our net worth….

I’ve never considered any but 50% as mine. We never had a separate hers and mine. Everything has been joint.

Part 2

G, “Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com.  Is this one of yours?”

W’s paragraphs reply shortened to:
- yes, for my gig work
- I will go back to the RV and update
- $xxx can be from over-repayment above
- $xx can be from the ~$xxxx I paid for kids school

G thinks, and stays in STFU mode.
- What it was for didn’t matter, I just wanted to know if it was W’s, fraud, or something of mine I had forgotten about.
- Why would you go back to the RV now to update it?
- I wasn’t asking for repayment.
- I know you purchased S12’s and D17’s textbooks since they arrived at my home.
- You never told me how much $$ of direct school expenses you paid or for what.
- I can’t reimburse you without knowing what you spent.

You see, even before working on a settlement, I said I would pay all kids customary direct costs for school, etc. It is codified in the settlement. All the kids automatic billed stuff comes to me. Every time she has let me know of an expense, I have paid it. No questions. No complaints. I never had expectations of her paying for the children… how is this any different? Peace of mind coming from accepting 100% responsibility for my children. No expectations of W. I’ve seen and heard the unhappy hearts that come from disputes over child support.

Part 3

Continued paraphrased W’s long paragraphs broken apart interspersed with G’s thoughts from inside STFU mode (no actual replies). A little venting here.

W - Let’s not do tit for tat. Just tell me if my expenses. It’s not on purpose.
G - Um, I wasn’t tit for tat. I noticed when checking the card charges this week. A few days later when I wasn’t busy with other things I asked politely if it was your expense.

W - I am paying $2,xxx / month for kids’ expenses, lots of gas.
G - WT*?! Are you spending on? They live 100% with me. D19 pays most of her own share now, part of giving her the safety of home while practicing what it takes to be on her own. They and I go shopping anytime they need clothes, supplies, etc. Everything a home provides I pay for. I pay for D17s sports. And on. Also, gas? You spend on gas because of where you chose to live. Your choice of how much to drive back and forth. Echos from DB forums on accountability for choices and kryptonite

W - D17 doesn’t make her own food to sports and work and I pay the bill.
G - F’n parent up W. That is your choice, not child support. Tell her no, you will not take her out to eat after every single morning gymnastics practice And every single evening work schedule. You can pack a lunch box and so can D17. The fridge and pantry is stocked full.

W - state child support and alimony rules are screwy, though we don’t make them. Child support should be shared the best we can
G - We came to a fair agreement. I pay you a large chunk every month for 18 months to cover both. I only pay at all because we agreed to continue home school and you claimed to be unable to do much work when doing so.

W - I don’t ask for even a tiny bit of expenses the kids cause because asking “may I” is crazy. I don’t care about the agreement.
G - *frustration*. It’s not asking for permission if I already agreed to it. Where does this come from? I just need minimal accountability of telling me how much and for what. Every time you told me of an expense, I have reimbursed with no comment.

W - I don’t mind paying kids expenses. We are sharing kids 50/50, so I don’t mind paying as much as I can. God will provide.
G - I’m providing, still. You have been living primarily off savings/investments I earned for OUR FUTURE. I’ve sent alimony payments to provide as agreed. You JUST SENT THEM BACK!…to pay off a low interest car loan early. Backwards of what any financial advisor would tell you. 50/50? This summer you average 2 or 3 hours each week day with them. You set up your place as so uninviting to them, the kids have not gone over of their own will.

W - I don’t mind helping with the house. I cleaned up the back yard last month and trimmed up the hedges today. let me know if that eases the burden and what else since I am using your space.
G - So….this is … new. Those were misc things that didn’t need doing right now. But you don’t pick up after yourself in the home when there. You don’t take care of your rabbit. Or take it to your place as you promised 4 times. You haven’t touched your stuff taking up half the garage or half the “den” area in months. But the hedges? Oh, and using “my space?” No, you are in my HOME.

W - I will be showing S12’s school for accountability now. Feel free to let me know if you have concerns.
G - Um, OK. I’ve been observing without expectations. Having plans no matter which way you turn out.

Part 4, Next day

W - I’d like to take S12 two states up in early Aug. to see his friend X before the school year.
G - Hmmmm, I have no issue with the trip. This is a ~12 hour drive. Proposed dates are 4 days. S12’s friend X used to be somewhat close but hasn’t been for years. Missing some logic here. Mind reading other motives. Friend X’s mom was one of W’s friends who left her husband. This guy had some real issues. i.e. kids could go visit if W’s friend was the adult in charge, but not if he was. I know, not just think, W and her conferred on divorce and how much happier it was to meet a new man to fill her needs.

To respond
After all that, I haven’t replied yet. Short Simple Business Maybe:

“I have no conflicts with those dates.”

Looks like she hit a nerve. You took the bait. Hook, line, and sinker.

No one can be calm all the time. We are human after all. But this conversation served really no purpose. It's not like she will take all you said and do better next time. That's not where your relationship is right now. Still too emotional.

Next I need to tell her I’m taking the kids to the west coast to visit my family for a couple weeks in early Sept. And ask if she will take care of the animals while we are away.

Maybe:

“I’ve planned the usual annual trip to visit my family from x-x Sept. Will you be able to take care of our animals for these dates?”

What do you all think?


g

I personally wouldn't ask her to watch anything. Outside of co-parenting those kids, rely on her for nothing.

[grok]

Hi V,

...it looks like I was too oblique. It wasn't an actual conversation.

Her parts she actually messaged to me.

My only actual reply was

“Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com. Is this one of yours?”

All of the other "replies" from me were ONLY in my own head. I was externally in receive and STFU mode. Wait 48 hours and write it out here mode.

I have said zero, messaged zero. This was venting here.

You are right though, I took the bait in the sense it occupied too much of my head and emotional space for a few days.

g

[grok]

Hi MamaG,

I often see advice for how to respond to myself and don’t want to send you down the wrong path.

That's OK. Say what you see. You will see, recognize things I do not.

This is such a hard road.

I have this check of my state. I hold out my hand in front of me. Flat. I see how much it shakes as I try to hold it still. It took over a year to mostly not shake. Now? Only on bad days.

I have a Mormon neighbor who periodically evangelizes the neighborhood door to door. I talk with her and discuss. People of goodwill. Upon hearing the bones of my story she quietly said, "it took me ten years to recover from my divorce. I'll pray for you."

You may not know it, but from time to time I look to your posts for a role model. Reading your quotes and listening to how you handle life inspires me to do better.

Thank you. We encourage each other to survive, do better, then thrive. Just like I receive much from reading others stories, I hope others can take something from mine.

I can see myself in your situation. I also am a leader in IT. I need to keep it together by day. Sometimes it’s just exhausting to stay together when I come home.

Leader in IT? *Laughs* What a history I have. The closest term you could use for me is Systems Engineer in the old sense, not the IT sense. IT was a side effort to enable my other work. My professional IT trail includes
- Modifying Intel 486 based computers to speed up rendering of large Autocad models,
- In charge of 5 person shop running a 800 person org’s servers, clients, and network.
- Constructing the equivalent of the A+ course and teaching dozens of administrative assistants who had been redesignated as IT support
- Evaluating sensor data backhaul systems…SATCOM, internet, synchronous and asynchronous links, fiber, radio, etc…
- And on

exhausting sometimes? just sometimes? *wry smile* I find it a little easier keeping it together by focusing on just today’s troubles. Keeping it together one day at a time. For -

when I was going through this, my mantra was

Today is not the day that I quit

Maybe I will quit tomorrow, yet I will wait to see what tomorrow brings

Then repeat that tomorrow

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2713361#Post2713361

And

“So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

It’s good to see you vented here, and remained silent for at least 48 hours.

W provided quite the barrage of conversation. Something I see, you are looking at it rationally. Looking at things in a manner of how would I fix it if this were my problem. Your views and statements are correct, yet that doesn’t and won’t really matter to W. More look at her conversation in its entirety with less desire to help/fix/etc. And without needing to defend yourself. Just listen and validate/respond where appropriate.

G, “Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com. Is this one of yours?”

W’s paragraphs reply shortened to:
- yes, for my gig work
- I will go back to the RV and update
- $xxx can be from over-repayment above
- $xx can be from the ~$xxxx I paid for kids school

W - Let’s not do tit for tat. Just tell me if my expenses. It’s not on purpose.

W - I am paying $2,xxx / month for kids’ expenses, lots of gas.

W - D17 doesn’t make her own food to sports and work and I pay the bill.

W - state child support and alimony rules are screwy, though we don’t make them. Child support should be shared the best we can.

W - I don’t ask for even a tiny bit of expenses the kids cause because asking “may I” is crazy. I don’t care about the agreement.

W - I don’t mind paying kids expenses. We are sharing kids 50/50, so I don’t mind paying as much as I can. God will provide.

W - I don’t mind helping with the house. I cleaned up the back yard last month and trimmed up the hedges today. let me know if that eases the burden and what else since I am using your space.

W - I will be showing S12’s school for accountability now. Feel free to let me know if you have concerns.


Next day

W - I’d like to take S12 two states up in early Aug. to see his friend X before the school year.

It looks like W is playing nice, even cleaning up the hedges to ease your burdens. (lol, I’m with you. She doesn’t clean up after herself, hasn’t taken the rabbit, and stuff still in the den and garage. However, those hedges are all fixed up.) Anyhow, point being she’s playing/being nice, pointing out all she’s done and doing, and “the next day” unveils why - to ask about taking S12 on a trip.


Just listen and validate/respond where appropriate.

To respond
After all that, I haven’t replied yet. Short Simple Business Maybe:

“I have no conflicts with those dates.”

Could add a bit of validation. Let her know she’s been heard.

(Assuming you spoke to S12, and he actually wants to go on the trip.)



“G: W, good point. I will let you know if I have any expenses of your’s. Please let me know if you have any expenses for me.

The dates for your trip work well for me. Hope you and S12 have a good time.

Also, I am looking at visiting my family during Sept x-x and plan on taking the kids with me.”



I wouldn’t ask W about looking after the animals during your trip. Arrange other care in your absence. Hire a friend of the kids, utilize a kennel, etc.

Hope your Sunday is going well.

D

[grok]

Returning home

As DnJ said

Quite enjoyable.

And also, nice to be back home.

My work trip last week went well and was socially fun with the others.

While I was driving to lunch with three other men in the car one day I got a call from D17. I messaged I can’t talk but she kept calling. It turned out W was there with a flat tire. D17 was changing it. She called looking for some of the tools and some advice. Well… she got good advice from all the men in the car…LOL. They thought is was awesome that D17 was taking charge and doing the job. They all wondered what the heck W was doing/not doing. And why W wasn’t using the roadside service # that I paid for with the original warranty purchase. I have no idea and didn’t ask.

I arrived back home Friday evening and loved on the kids. I waited until the next morning late to ask for their help in household pickup/cleanup that didn’t happen while I was gone. A reset relax day plus back to school shopping for D17 and S12 supplies with D19 advising. Picked up burrito supplies for dinner we all helped make.

Sunday… ooof. up, animals, make some breakfast things, herd them out the door for church, 79c Slushies for all on the way home, make lunch, NAP. 2:30p…. No more time for resting. S12 and I head out for groceries and supplies for the week. D19 and D17 go out for shirts and dress shopping. Back home and then take D17 to practice driving. Make dinner things, We all make next day lunch things, loose at connect 4 game to D17, kitchen cleanup, animals, get ready for bed time. Whew!

I noticed I feel a bit irritated when the kids are at home spending happy time with W. Why? I’m not sure. It feels like ignoring this destruction and treating it like W expressed once, ”The parenting class told me we’re still family, we just have two separate homes.”

A conversation before my travel
Alt title - On why I mentioned her the rowboat in the storm and me attempting to be the lighthouse

W came over early in the evening while I was eating a salad D17 and I made.

W, ”Can I talk to you without the children please?”
G, ”Sure, let’s go outside.”

W, ”Are you considering asking for 100% custody? Have you considered it? I wanted to ask because I can tell when people are lying.”
G, pause, think, ”No. I have not considered sole custody. I’m not keeping the kids from you.”

I did NOT voice any of my speculative considered options. I have not considered sole custody because her behavior so far and the kids living with me did not raise those concerns. I have, however, been aware of her behaviors and have my thresholds where I would be concerned.

W, ”THEY have been psychologically attacking me. Their techniques work even when I know they are techniques… Telling me I’ll be considered I’m an unfit parent and lose my kids.”.

She starts weeping gently. I have no reason to believe it isn’t genuinely what she believes and feels.

”G, that is the one thing that would break me. … THEY sabotaged my water, it’s why I permanently lost running water in my RV. My job cleaning the RV park facilities has been interfered with and vandalized. THEY have caused me trouble all over the county. THEY call themselves Christians…when they are not Christian like at all. G, be careful who you tell things to. ”

G, I listened with full attention. No other expressions than focused attention. ”OK W. …. and… You know… I’ve said… whatever is on paper, I’m not keeping the children from you. “

W nods and departs.

Backstory gleaned from conversations with W - THEY refers to OM’s circle of friends/acquaintances who were not part of the initial seduction game. When THEY found out what was really going on … all were upset with her and have been persecuting her ever since. On social media and the real world. How much is true reality? I don’t know.

I reflected none of my internal commentary…. The children are NOT a tool for me.

This is the only place I vent this. It would not be helpful. Vindictive/angry parts of me felt -
- what did you expect passive aggressively attempting the destruction of two families?
- Chasing an EA, divorce, in hopes OM would kick his wife to the curb is unfit parenting,
- how dumb are you (she is not BTW) to think there is such a thing permanent running water loss in an RV? It is just plumbing in ground or vehicle.
- It’s not within Christian principles to do what you are doing.
- Of all the people in this world, you should know me better than to think I carelessly or vindictively tell people things.

Compassionate me had me wondering about detachment -
- I am grieved W is under this pressure. It still hurts to see.
- thinking your children will be taken from you by a court …. … no words.
- I could fix plumbing… no, I’m not going to.
- genuine tears/pain make me want to hold her. Then I think no, she wants OM to hold her.


Redemption Song by Apollo LTD

Everybody's got a story
And here's a little bit of mine
Took a prodigal fall from glory
'Til I finally saw the light
…
This is my redemption song
My heart cries hallelujah
Who I was is dead and gone
And the old me's looking new, yeah
You filled my soul with melodies
Heaven won't stop singing over me
I'm a child of God and I belong
This is my redemption song

Now I've got a hope and future
This is what freedom's like
I'm running to a new tomorrow
And I'm leaving yesterday behind

g

[Catman19]

Stay strong grok, i know this isnt easy and you are an amazing example for your children. Me thinks W is going through paranoia stage as at this stage they think everyone is out to get them because the guilt and shame is starting to sit heavy on her. As much as she tries to put on a facade of being in a better place the infatuation stage of OM has begun to lose its lustre. I seen you are practicing stoicism for yourself and it seems to be paying off. Your children will see that you are there for them and that is where your emotional energy should be focused. Keep it up and eventually you will realize what your worth is and your children will acknowledge that.

[grok]

The End of All Things

Oh, Those playlist items on the way in to work...has me in a contemplative mood... (or melancholy is a secondary trait of mine)

overcoming the challenges, the changes in you, and the cost...

Snips (from web sites) representing my incomplete train of thoughts. the echos of changes in ourselves in this trauma.

The End of all Things - Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (soundtrack)

The End of All Things is the fifty-seventh scene
...
Sam half-dragging Frodo out through the doorway. They find a raised boulder for what they believe will be their final respite. Frodo, no longer weighed down with the burden of the Ring, exclaims "It's done". He lays down, with a sea of molten lava surrounding them, and closes his eyes.
...
Themes
...
A theme of The Lord of the Rings is the deep cost for the characters to protect the people and places they love, and how they will be forever changed despite the victory.
...
Aragorn has spent the series avoiding his destiny and the film’s ending shows what beautiful things can happen when someone decides to become who they were meant to be.
...
The four main hobbits...they have been changed greatly by their journey while their home and those closest to them have remained largely unchanged and ignorant of the dangers they narrowly avoided. For the longest time, the hobbits were out of their element, away from Hobbiton, but being back, they again find themselves out of place.
...
The things that they used to mind don’t seem to matter as much...much of what they have seen and learned lingers over them
...
Frodo speaks rhetorically to himself about what it means to move on when others can't move with you.
...
the price it cost means that he can no longer be a part of this world. Frodo saves Middle-earth for everyone at the cost of saving himself.
...
about a traumatic journey into dark and cruel places, and the difficulty that comes with trying to rebuild a normal life on the other side.
...
is about picking up the pieces after failure, about trying even when there is no hope of success
...
“How do you pick up the threads of an old life, when in your heart, you know there is no going back?”
...
The Story will go on...

in a moment of abject despair, Sam had cradled Frodo’s nearly lifeless body and whispered, “Don’t leave me alone. Don’t go where I can’t follow.”
...
Sam never left Frodo’s side, never lost faith in him, never left him behind. Now Frodo is leaving him for good, and he can never follow ... In the end, the true final scene ... It’s hardly even a scene. Sam walks home, turning Frodo’s words over and over in his mind. “Your part in the story will go on….you will have to be one and whole for many years.”

g

[Kind18]

It’s not within Christian principles to do what you are doing.

These sorts of thoughts are a waste of time.

Assuming that she should have better moral standards because of her religion is a cheeseless tunnel.

Aetheists do good things, and bad things.

Christians do good things, and bad things.

During the initial stages of my separation, my ex wife would take the children on her weekend and sit in church singing and praying - while she was actively having an affair.

I think overall you handled the interaction very well.

The person you thought you knew doesn’t exist. Either never did, or is missing in action (likely for many years).

Set your expectations of her very, very low - it makes your life easier.

The only person whose thoughts and behaviours and morality you control - are yours!

[grok]

Frist! (old internet joke)

Hey everyone! Happy to see the site back up and new certs in place.

Now to write all those things I've been thinking all week without posting.

g

[grok]

Hi Kind18,

Thanks for bombing the forums from/with experience. heh, not sarcasm. I learn or get re-enforcement on better behaviors and approaches for me from each one.

STORM and RAIN

The kids and I are drying out after storm Debby passed by. Unfortunately the county had closed the parks and preserves or we would have gone out playing in the rain.

We almost didn't go out at all because D17 and D19 had a bit of a brief emotional blowout (sisters close in age, quite different personallities, it is gonna happen) ending with D17 walking away with "really, f-you!" THAT was a step to far and I stepped in. " Go to your rooms, NOW. Time for you both to cool off." I closed their doors.

Man up G, W is gone and you are IT. How the *** do I handle female sibling conflict?

I talked to each after 10 minutes. Both of them got "I'm not going to solve your conflict. I do require you to apologize to her for your over-the-top attitude. We are NOT going out until that happens. " From each I received a litany of "but" and "just" and "she did x" and ... For each I said, "yes, that may be true. If you would like, later, I can give you each of your "but" "just" "she did x" and show how you both did wrong. That is not what I asked for." I closed their doors.

It took another 20 minutes before they were ready. I busied myself with other things until they each came by with some form of "I said sorry for the over-the-top. But NOT what SHE did. Can we go out now?" Ha! "Yes, we can go now. Thank You for apologizing for the over-the-top."

It was fun playing frisbee in the pouring rain in the street. LOL S12, D17, D19 and I were all laughing in the rain.

Oh, and S12 and I had to take the dogs for their evening walk (no peeing in the house pls) in POURING rain at 10pm because it wasn't letting up. We decided to forgo umbrellas and raincoats and just be soaked. The dogs loved/hated it and got frisky. We needed five towels.

THAT spouse is gone and cheeseless tunnels

These sorts of thoughts are a waste of time.

Assuming that she should have better moral standards because of her religion is a cheeseless tunnel.

Agreed! Though sometimes hard to get myself out of the instinctual response. I let myself think and feel it as it occurs...then toss it away as useless. Sometimes vent here just to let it out and then drop it. I've gotten better at it over time. There is so much more worthy of my time and energy than running down those tunnels.

During the initial stages of my separation, my ex wife would take the children on her weekend and sit in church singing and praying - while she was actively having an affair.

This was one of the things that surprised me the most in the last 18 months. Reading and learning on affairs and so on...that experts claimed no significant difference across various beliefs or value systems.

For me a related experience... In church the Pastor announcing communion "We are told not to take this unless your heart is right with God, if you are not, just sit it out this month. There is no judgement here," with W sitting next to me, drowning deep in her EA, saying, "I feel I'm right with God, but I won't take it because I don't want to be a stumbling block to others" seemingly referring to D19 and D17.

I think overall you handled the interaction very well.

Thank you for the feedback. It is difficult to see when in the middle of it.

The person you thought you knew doesn’t exist. Either never did, or is missing in action (likely for many years).

Set your expectations of her very, very low - it makes your life easier.

Based on conversations this last 18 months and debris I have been cleaning up in the home...I think MIA for 3 or 4 years now. I think her retirement from the military reserves on a low note ~ six years ago started the process.

Most of the time zero expectations is the norm now. A big assist from going dark/dim. As others have noted, going dark/dim turns out to be for me, to reset and center myself.

The only person whose thoughts and behaviours and morality you control - are yours!

An ongoing work to never end!

g

[grok]

feelings

I mean who did he think he was 2yrs ago saying ILYBINILWY...as if. Does H think that in the 32yrs of marriage I haven't had the same feelings? You know what you do you fight through those feelings cause they do pass.
Sorry I know that's random. From time to time I think abt things that were said and I think, As If. Certain things stick out the most,
...
I could go on and on but I won't bore y'all. I'm sure yall have heard similar things.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2950239#Post2950239

THIS and yes, I have heard similar things.

It ties in with quotes I posted from Zues126, from GK Chesterton, with the notion that Love not just feelings, or a verb, but is also a Choice.

on "OM/OW is a symptom"

guys who will go and blame the guys their gf/wife cheated on them with. Not realising the gf/wife is the problem not the enabler. The other guy was just there to pop their ego investment bubble.

However, their cognitive dissonance and the feelings for their gf/wife blind them.

The guy she cheated with was just the messenger.

Even if the guy was not in the picture the problem was already there, and she just needed a trigger.
... ...
Instead, you should thank the guy she cheated on you with because then you know who you are truly dealing with, not blame him.

Now you are free.

Lick the wounds your ego suffered, cut your losses from your misplaced investments and understand that the world is at it is not as you wish it to be.

I would say free to Stand or Leave or ?, seeing the world and spouse as it is, not as you wish it or him/her to be. The problems with ME and HER were already there. What you choose is about who YOU are. I did put this on Whatlee's thread but it follows here...

IMO standing is an essential part of the healing process of the LBS. You will constantly questions this throughout. At least I have up to this point.

You will ask yourself questions like "WTF am I doing this for this person?"

In the beginning we want answers.

...

Then you realize that this is part of YOU

What you have chosen is part of YOU and your character. So what began out of a search for answers for why and what is wrong with you. Out of hurt for what someone did to you...

You see it all has to do with who YOU are. The best part of who YOU are and then...

It is no longer about what THEY choose or why.

It is about YOU

Click the link, read the rest.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2010045#Post2010045

Previous conversation coda

W inserted this anomaly, for her, into the conversation

"G, You know I would be OK with putting the kids into a school if they ever showed signs of interest. but they haven't. "

I said nothing but acknowledged her statement. This is the first thought of non-homeschooling expressed to me in over a decade. W was upset with me saying in mediation we should have a clause that lets us jointly consider schooling options on a yearly basis rather than legally locking in only homeschool.

Something for the LBS -

Lesser Loves
from Lamentations: Simple Songs of Lament and Hope
by Bifrost Arts

I was an orphan, but You called me "child"
I was a stranger; I was lost and defiled,
Redemption found me from up above
O how I had settled for lesser loves.

(refrain)
How can I thank you, Lord?
My broken heart, You have restored.
How can I thank you, Lord?
You give me grace I cannot afford.

g

[grok]

Well, It's been a week. I SEE you all.

I keep having half formed posts written in my head. and then real life means kids and GAL comes first. I did find in the old posts how people met outside the DB site. Minor bits of cleverness...making an account using the username here as a username in that social network ... book of faces. First or last name playing on DB. You can find me there.

Public/State school has started here, the roads are a mess, and schedules for activities have all changed. D17's gymnastics schedule changed to evenings now. S12 and D17 both have all day Tuesday home-school coop day now. Monday night activities are S12's scout like troop for a couple hours and then making lunch/school prep with D17 and S12 for the next day.

gratitude
Last night, after work, I got home and helped S12 finish making the mac-n-cheese that was on the stove. STBXW had just arrived to drop S12 off and started it. I made some "pigs-in-a-blanket" for when D17 and D19 got home. Then I went out to my now regular Tuesday trivia night at the pub ... taking a bowl of PiaB with me for my regular crew to snack on. Some got eaten and some did not, but I got smiles all around, which felt good. They asked where kids were this week (sometimes they stop by and join in for 30 minutes, for me to buy them sodas and sandwiches).

F, who I got to know first at the pub, asked me how I was doing and told me off to the side that he and his W, J, had discussed splitting. They hadn't so far...kids and all. My words to him were "you don't stay together for the kids...that is the wrong frame...you repair the broken bits in your relationship for the kids and yourself." He expressed compliments on how I was handling it and the kids.

At the end of trivia when we were saying goodbyes (We WON, $50 gift card), J, his wife, came over, gave me a hug, and said "we love you. we think you are doing an amazing job." I was not expecting that.

grief
After one of the rounds I picked up my phone and saw W had called twice, messaged, and D17 had called. Messages showed "can you pick D17 up?" "hello?" "never mind" "Ms. S is taking D17 home" I tried to call D17 since I was a 5-minute drive from her gymnastics.

she messaged back.

"mama forgot me"

"I have a ride home"

G, "hugs"

D17, hugs emoji

From the security cams I saw W stopped by home for 10 minutes right about when D17 got dropped off.

When I got home I asked D17 where her school tote was. It has what she needs to work on for the rest of the week.

D17, "I don't know dad. I think mama forgot to leave it. It must be in her car."
G, "OK. We'll figure it out tomorrow. It's time to walk the dogs and get ready for bed. Time to stop hitting your brother with pillows so he can get ready."

This morning I was out walking big dog at 0615 before sunrise. I see W's car zoom by...stop at the house...the doorbell sensor alerted on my phone...and a minute later she zooms back away. When I arrived home I see D17's school tote on the front porch. I guess D17 complained ... STBXW? ... I guess those emotions are putting plenty of pressure on her so she delivered before dawn without a word.

g

PS. Karma Fields. I had been trying to remember this artist. They stuck in my mind because of the interesting visuals generated from the music properties.

.me by Karma Fields
[Intro]
I'm just trying to figure myself out
Trying to pick up somehow

[Verse 1]
Parts of me
Pieces of memories
Feels like everything's moving
I don't know where it's going

Wish I could see the light in me
Where I should put my feet to move ahead
I'll go anywhere

[Bridge]
I'm just trying to figure myself out
Trying to figure myself out

[grok]

A few days ago from STBXW I received a lengthy text message with a screenshot of a medical bill text for D17. Summarized -

- image is supposed to be for D17
- I click and follow but it shows no account for D17
- I haven't gotten reminders for supposed bill for two months
- I'm sure it was paid by you or me or reimbursed
- I got this today
- I don't know if it is legitimate because
- THEY have been perpetrating money fraud to punish me for 16 months
- I tried D17's birth date and it said no account
- I tried S12's birth date and it said no account
- I refuse to call because people will say anything
- If you want, I can go in person
- I don't mind doing that in case it is real

Yes, she has always had a LOT of words. I had always found it endearing.

On the people "THEY" she thinks are persecuting her for the EA+? I don't know. I do know she spent $7,000 extra in the month before I took joint credit cards back. She spent ~$7,000+ on her own credit card before claiming fraud charges. She moved to a debit card and then claimed fraud/hacking a couple months later. The woman I knew before is very smart but inexperienced in finance/money.

I just replied, after 24 hours, "That sounds frustrating. I will take care of **medical company**"

I attempted to validate the feelings expressed between the lines and take on what is my responsibility. I STFU about anything else.

The medical insurance and payments for the kids are my responsibility. I paid the bill when I knew there was one. She took them in for some visits this year but I don't think she tracked anything.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Nicely done distilling down STBXW’s text to the medical/business matters that you should look into. Your 24 hour delayed response was succinctly to the point.

I agree, there is some emotions between the lines, as well as some baiting/fishing for you to latch onto. Good steering clear of all that.

It’s unfortunate Mom let slide picking up D17 from gymnastics. Sounds like Daughter took it in stride and simply found an alternate ride. It’s times like these when one realizes how much their children have grown, matured, and become responsible. Basically, how well they are healing. The same scenario a year ago would have triggered quite a less calm, taken in stride, result.

Hope you and your brood have a great weekend!

D

[grok]

Thanks DnJ. It has been a good weekend…though as you’ll see below not without LIFE. It turns out $450 was owed for the medical bill. W had put her email but my physical address. I asked for a paper copy to be sent to me so I can take care of it.

Well,…. Adventures good and bad continue! I continue to make my focus me and my children and our lives.

Hat tip to Clint Eastwood movies…

The Good

Just about all set for our trip to CA to visit my side of the family. We leave in 10 days. For two weeks. Pet care is pretty much all settled using several of D19 and D17’s friends. The dogs will be in a kennel though.

A bunch of the new pictures (selected by me D17 and D19) are up on the wall along with a gold framed mirror on clearance that D17 and I picked. Most of the pictures W had put up over the years are taken down. The decor is morphing into ours sans W.

The Bad

Saturday evening S12 pipes up and says “Dad, that doesn’t sound right”. I hear an intermittent screeeeeech sound out by the outside AC unit. UGH! $%^#&#$%^. Again?!

It sounded like the fan motor bearings going bad. The motor is too hot to touch. Off goes breaker. I swap the new fan blades for the old ones just to check … since the new ones seem to cause MORE vibration than the old damaged ones. Grrrrrr. Sure enough it is smoother and less vibrations but the screeeeeeching comes back intermittently and the motor is still HOT. I FaceTime my dad for a second opinion. He agrees with my diagnosis.

#$^#$%^$. I mean last month when I repaired the AC I had ordered a new motor but didn’t use it because it seemed to be working fine after a capacitor replacement and operating for a week. I just sent that new motor back. And now ordered it again! ($250) It will get here on Wednesday.

Problem is I leave Monday morning for a work trip to CA…the other side of the US. I’ll be back on Friday. I can’t leave a failing electric motor on while I’m not here. Off I run to Sam’s Club to buy a portable AC unit before they close. A 10,000 BTU unit to keep the downstairs below 78 F is costly ($450) but …. We do what we have to. …. I set it up idownstairs and the upstairs reaches 92F during the day. We sleep downstairs.

I’ve set up the kids for the coming week while I’m gone. We shopped for foods. To keep cool they will live and sleep mostly in the downstairs half of the house while I’m gone this week. W’s only remark was D17 and D19 are fine for the week.

The Ugly.

Little dog 2. Some weeks back one of the kids noticed a good sized lump on his behind that seemed to be an ugly color and be weeping. Uh Oh. As I was gone on business travel for the week, kids took a look at it and he got snappy. So W came by and scheduled a vet visit. The soonest was two weeks later. In the mean time I set up kenneling for our upcoming trip to CA. I discovered that W had dropped taking care of the doggies vet requirements. So, updated shots and preventative medicines for all the dogs before kenneling - $650. Little dog 2 diagnostic tests - $700.

As I was there to get all three dog shots taken care of I talked to the vet about little dog 2’s test results. Cancer. Decent sized lumps under the lymph nodes. It is time just for making sure he is comfortable for whatever remaining days are given. I kept thinking about how to talk to the kids about this. And Fear. And Dread.

Wait. What have I learned about Fear this last year and a half? What do I control?

When I got home D17 asked ”What did the doctor say?” She had been asking me for a week to talk to the vet. Moment of truth. I will just be Dad, the emotional rock they can rest on and count on. Tell them straight.

”Little dog 2 has cancer. It can’t be fixed. We will love on him for whatever days he has left.”

S12 burst into tears and left the room. But was back in a couple minutes. I answered their questions. I gave them hugs. They seemed sad but accepting.

the bill will come due
There will be a BIG bill coming due next fall when I have to pay off this past year and a half's extra expenses. ($15k?) I'm gaming the system a little putting it all on interest free credit cards for a year +. I am being safe though, I do have investments / emergency funds I can tap to pay it off if most of this isn't resolved by then.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Sorry about your pooch. The loving critters certainly are part of the family; it’s rough when they get sick / old. (((Hug)))

Telling the kids straight was/is best.

Love your wisdom regarding fear and dread, and that which you can control. Spot on.

Most of the pictures W had put up over the years are taken down. The decor is morphing into ours sans W.

Yep. Nice to see the kids’ input in creating the/their decor.

The AC motor, surprise medical bill, vet visits, a bit of financial stress for sure. You got it under control IMO, more just the timing of things. Do what you can, and don’t fret, it’ll all get there.

Nine days, and then you and the kids are off to CA for two weeks. Have a great time!

D

[MamaG]

Oh G, I've been saying that when it rains, it pours (also literally on-and-off pouring for weeks over here, lol). Reading through your update makes me realize my 'hard' Saturday was not so hard after all.

Yet, in your update, I found so much positive. And, great delivery in Clint Eastwood style.

You've redecorated. NICE! A fresh feel and update without W reminders.

Pet care is in place - kid friends come handy, and I'll bet they're excited to step up to the challenge.

Impressive that you found an AC for purchase mid-August! Where I live, they've been severely discounted for some time with few left on shelves - it was a HOT July here.

Thankfully, W is comfy with current state (smh):

W’s only remark was D17 and D19 are fine for the week.

The benefits of Grok2.0 to the rescue:

I will just be Dad, the emotional rock they can rest on and count on. Tell them straight.

I am so sorry to hear about your fur baby. If yours are like mine, they've been a bit of a lifeline since BD...well, since adoption really. Mine are two 12-year-old doggies and one of them is in the same predicament...taking him on Friday. Hoping for the best.

And, to close with another positive...

I'm gaming the system a little putting it all on interest free credit cards for a year +. I am being safe though, I do have investments / emergency funds I can tap to pay it off if most of this isn't resolved by then.

Using the noggin' to not tap investments when the option of interest free borrowing is available. Love it! The expenses don't get forgiven but at least you're capitalizing where you can.

Keep the positives flourishing. CA is a short couple weeks away - wishing you a great trip with the family.

[grok]

Thanks MamaG,

Reminders of the positive are appreciated. Even when I wrote them! I can have a hard time with seeing…when I get wrapped up with the hard bits.

(If you want to see, make an alternate anonymous account on that giant social media site that is a book of faces LOL and use MamaG as your name, something DB related as last name)

I’ve read Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce by Elizabeth Marquardt

And now I’m struggling to read Primal Loss: The Now-Adult Children of Divorce Speak by Leila Miller (A free PDF of her book is on her website)

Oh, not because I’m a poor reader (my 15 bookcases say otherwise) but because it hits so hard to KNOW my children will experience this. I must … to be able to see it in them and do what I can.

When my melancholy and awareness of destruction, across generations hits…. It is cold and dark.

So Cold - Breaking Benjamin

[Verse 2]
If you find your family, don't you cry
In this land of make-believe, dead and dry
You're so cold, but you feel alive
Lay your hand on me, one last time

[Chorus]
Show me how it ends, it's all right
Show me how defenseless you really are
Satisfied and empty inside
Well, that's all right
Let's give this another try

“The setting is the 19th century, and first depicts a preacher positioned by a swamp. The camera then moves to a large group of individuals walking through a forest. One of these people can be seen carrying a large stone with the Breaking Benjamin Celtic knot engraved on it. The man is being punished and tortured for the crime of infidelity and unfaithfulness towards his wife, chained to the stone throughout the video. When the video is almost over, the rest of the people finally arrive at the swamp where the preacher is located. The man carrying the stone willingly walks into the swamp and drowns to death. During the video's climax, the man's wife stands over the swamp he drowned in adorned in a black robe, and the other woman is adorned in a white robe.
(tldr: he’s chained to the stone so he can’t let go and he’s being executed for cheating on his wife)”

g

[grok]

On the airplane,
on the way home,
missing my children,
had a good week in southern CA working and socializing with workmates from HQ and around the nation.

I walked 8+ miles yesterday to work off some of the great food eaten while socializing. The axe throwing social event didn’t burn enough. And I did find trinkets for the kids to bring back. Little hand painted frog figurines that have a wobbley tung stick

I am pretty detached now but it still feels like there is a giant hole in my life. Like a limb is missing. The asymmetry in affairs is difficult…at least in the short term. The cheater is looking forward to their “wonderful” fantasy relationship thinking it makes things better. The LBS is looking at loss and hardship. This hits our notions of fairness right in the face.

STBXW is still focused on OM even though I don’t believe they meet in real life right now. Every now and then I see the behaviors where I know she thinks she is messaging him. I saw them while daily checking my security cameras to see how my children were doing without me at home.

My snooping many many months ago found messaging to the effect of “I’ll just go and pine away for you in my RV for years … waiting for you to resolve your situation”. … meaning dump his current wife. Last year I heard every rationalization that dumping his current wife had nothing to do with her romance with him. That was just between OM and current wife. Yeah, as if. Accountability kryptonite…

No, I wasn’t checking on STBXW. You see, on my last week long work trip she only showed up at the home for 3 or 4 hours in the evening each day. I check to see how long my children have been alone. I try to FaceTime the kids multiple times a day to make sure they don’t feel alone and that I’m still running the home.

Thankfully, W is comfy with current state (smh)

Despite what she said, this trip STBWX behaved a little different. She stayed in the home overnights and most of the daytimes. How much value that has?

I think more for S12. He knows the least about her choices. I don’t think he knows about OM. And has the most schoolwork to catch up on. He seemed kind of down a lot when I called him.

D17 was a bit testy about doing lots of chores, on her own initiative!, to keep the dishes done and things cleaned up. She complained that D19 just excused herself because she is soooo tired after work and S12 didn’t want to help out. The implied subtext is STBXW was NOT helping out with anything but the dogs.
G, ”D17, I’ll talk with S12 and D19. You did great, thank you. Don’t worry. I’ll fix things when I get home.”

D19 expressed ”mama is here to walk the dogs. I don’t know what everyone else is doing. They are all kind of just doing their own thing all week. They all stay up very late and keep me up.” The implied subtext is STBXW was NOT parenting or controlling the home. Just present.
G, “OK D19, I’ll be home Friday evening. We’ll have bedtimes and order.”.
D19, ”THANK GOODNESS”

Heh, even at 19, appreciating parental order and structure.

Primal Loss by Leila Miller
Forward

“In the Divorce Fantasy World, there are only two choices. Unhappy parents stay miserably married and fight for the rest of their lives, or they get divorced and everyone lives happily ever after. The idea that one or both parents should change their behavior doesn’t register as an option, nor does the idea that the divorce might seriously wound the kids.”

”Each parent is half of who the child is. When the parents reject each other, they are rejecting half of the child. They may tell the child, “We still love you; we just don’t love each other.” The child cannot make sense of this impossible contradiction.”

Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce by Elizabeth Marquardt

How a child perceives parental differences in an intact family: (H <—> W) <—> (child).
The parents resolve the differences before it reaches the child..

How a child perceives parental differences in a divorced family: (H) <—> (child) <—> (W).
The child has to resolve the differences inside themselves.

g

[grok]

Well, never dull.

What I find
I arrived home on Friday to find W parked in the driveway…in the middle. I couldn’t pull in so I waited as she rushed back into the house and came out soon with what looked like a large laundry basket. And off she drove.

In I go to S12 and D17 as D19 is working a child watching side job. I give love to them. Check the portable AC is still fine. Check to see the AC fan motor came in. I’ll wait until the morning to work on it. I’m tired. And hungry. Although it looks like few dishes clean. The sink and counter are piled high. D17 said she did some but no one else for the five days I was gone….

Phew! What is the dog poop smell? I see little dog 2 run by and follow the smell to find a steaming pile on the carpet. Ugh…Did no one let the dogs out? And then I see seven more tiny piles of what look like dried diarrhea. On the carpet. I get paper towels and pick up the new pile.

G, ”S12, D17, what is going on here? Is this dog poop on the floor? “
D17, ”Yeah, little dog 2 was having trouble.”
G, ”Why didn’t anyone clean it up?”

No good answer was forthcoming and I wasn’t going to say anything negative about W to them. Dog poop left on the floor is its own statement. No dishes done is its own statement.

The day after

W comes by to take D17 to Saturday gymnastics at 8am. I notice a message later from W to our family group chat, ”Can someone get D17 from gym at 11? I’m busy today preparing for my craft fair market tomorrow.”. It’s not an emergency. I’ll discuss with D19 when she wakes up. Like we aren’t busy? I don’t reply.

Then, I’m tired still…but man up G, get the AC fixed. I go and remove the old fan motor…taking pictures of where the wires go. The connections are pretty dirty and stiff so I rummaged around and found a can of contact cleaner I’ve had for years. Now I go to put the new motor on and…. Ack. The four bolts don’t quite go into the holes!

Examining the issue I find the motor bolt pattern is about 1mm closer together than the holes in the support…. Hmmmm…. Practical solution is make the holes in the support a tiny bit bigger on the inside so they are effectively closer together. I need a round file and I can’t find one on my bench. I’ll have to run to the store to get one.

D19 replies in the group chat, “yes”. I tell her I have to run to the store over by D17 anyway and there is some confusion about 11 or 12 end times for D17’s gymnastics. The official hours are until 12. D19 suggests I go to the store now and swing by the gym in case it is an 11 pickup and I agree. I note she does NOT suggest calling W.

I go and pick up a bundle of small files then swing by the gym. Sure enough it was an 11 pickup. I give one of D17’s gym friends a ride home also. The gym’s AC failed the other day and the hours were reduced because of the heat.

Re-assembly of the AC fan unit is completed and it works! Hooray! No screeeeeching sounds. The new fan blades still seem a little less balanced than the old. I’m not concerned in the short run.

Now I get out the carpet spot cleaner and the wet vac and spent an hour cleaning all the dog poop up.

- Lunch -

D17, ” Dad, Dad, Dad, take us to the store. We need to get things for our trip!”.

So off we four went. Some clothes. Some activities for the plane ride. Misc stuff needed.

NOW I unpack and start loads of laundry. Start the children on all the deferred chores. Kids on their own start the packing process for a few hours.

The next morning

1am little dog 2 is barking. I go hush him.
1:30am little dog 2 is barking. I go hush him.
2am little dog 2 is barking. %^#%$^. He is staring at big dog. OH. Big dog threw up in his crate. I pull him out and pick up the throw up. I pick up the crate and wipe it down. I place the crate down in a different place because I’ll have to wet vac that area during the daytime. I put big dog back in crate and zzzzzz

7am go get big dog for morning walk….. OH, there is diarrhea in the crate on the floor. *sigh* Take the dog for a walk. Pick up crate and wipe it down. Get out wet vac for when everyone is awake. Make breakfast things. Get ready for church. Wet vac the floor in multiple locations.

…etc… I think we are mostly caught up. Now writing at midnight. Many things to say or reply to but when?

D19 just returned home from bowling with friends. She comes over and lays on the bed beside me watching reels. I need to send her to bed...LOL.

Grief, Gratitude, Grok, all in one
I was talking with S12 about some activities.

S12, ”Dad, are we going to do that one as a family, the four of us?”

D19, D17, S12 and I are Family. No mention of W.


g

[grok]

Wednesday on the way to CA
Routing on our trip to CA made a long day to get less expensive tickets. The second flight was IAD to SMF, a 5.5 hour leg. So, I’ll pull some thoughts while D19 is emoting unhappily next to me about how airplanes make her feel bad and I practice validation of feelings.

I have this whole series of thoughts that all somehow fit together. I’m not quite sure how to tie them and interlock them.

- Freedom in faith vs bondage in law from Galatians

- Anarchy vs vows/covenants from GK Chesterton.

- Chaos (feminine) vs Order (masculine) from MarriedRedpill and more

- Women who walk away vs good men from @thehappywifeschool on YouTube

- Victim vs Victim’s Mentality from Tony Evans

YouTube
I’ve been watching a bunch of YouTube videos lately on relationships and attraction. Mostly from recommendations here and a few that found linked to them. I’ve been learning a lot. Do I take it all at face value? No, but there is a lot of truth there.

@thehappywifeschool
@CaseyZander
@LFA
@bettercallgeorge924
@hoe_math and female reactions to his analysis
@FarfromEden
@itsmelanieking
etc…

Loss
@thehappywifeschool has a series talking to W. Teaching them about their own dark sides and nature. Where their unhappiness comes from. She has one addressed to LBH -When Your Wife Leaves You: Three Things Good Men Need to Know. I find her message lines up with DB concepts

- Accepting the Reality of the Situation - The existing R or M is GONE.

- Growth Through Adversity - If you do the work you will experience tremendous growth

- 1 Your Wife Leaving is a Loss - Accept it is a LOSS.

- 2 Your Wife Will Have Her Emotional Hooks in You - DETACH or be dragged. Let go.

- 3 Time to Find Yourself and Rebuild - In all the roles you have assumed over the years, who are YOU?

- Message for Women Who Are Leaving - Wherever you go, there you are with the same unhappiness. Leaving does NOT solve your problems. i.e. You are not the source of her unhappiness. Wherever she goes, she her unhappiness will be there (You didn’t break her, You can’t fix her)

Depression, despair and a victims mentality
Segments pulled from from Tony Evans': Encouragement that Calms Fears

Most of us know at least discouragement. Discouragement typically is related to a loss of something. You discourage because you lost your job.
…
You discourage because you lost your health. You discourage because the bills have climbed up and you've lost your financial freedom. But when discouragement continues and elongates itself, discouragement devolves into depression.
…
Depression is discouragement on steroids. It's discouragement that now has produced an ongoing level of gloom, an ongoing level of emotional pain. And when discouragement becomes depression, depression unresolved becomes despair.
…
And when depression becomes despair, that ongoing discouragement produces a sense of hopelessness. You see no way out. You see that there's gonna be no exit sign.
…
There's no way to get around this thing. There's no way to beat this thing. It will not go away.

So here we are (I was), the LBS. Discouraged > Depression > Despair.

And there is a need for a supernatural intervention into your emotional stability and wellbeing. That's our situation with Elijah. He's gonna find himself, what many of us have often found ourselves, in a black hole, because his whole world is gonna be turned upside down in a day.
…
A victim's mentality is a mindset that you adopt because of negative circumstances that says, I'm where I am because everybody else is where they are.
…
That's a victim's mentality. Now, you can be a victim, but you are to never adopt a victim's mentality where everybody else is responsible for where you are.
…
A victim's mentality is because of them, I'm here. And as long as you have that kind of mentality, you'll always be there. You may be a victim, but you are to never adopt the victim's mentality because then that allows you to put off being responsible to make the change you should make because they're not making the change they should make.”
…
There are some things in your life that are never ever gonna change. Those people are not gonna change, those kids not gonna change, that mate not gonna change, Jezebel's not gonna change, your boss not gonna change, the circumstances is not gonna change, but if you live for their change, you become their victim. And that's a victim's mentality.
….
It may not be right. It may not, it may be evil. So you may be a victim, but that's different than adopting the mindset of a victim.
…
If it wasn't for this situation, I wouldn't be here. Okay, that may be true, but they may never change. So what are you gonna do?

What are YOU (am I) going to do? Are you (am I) going to be responsible for making the changes you should make?

There is a LOT of good advice right here in this forum. Doesn’t make it easy. It doesn’t change the question.

What depression, discouragement, despair often brings is distorted information.
…
So Elijah is by himself, because depression gets worse if there's nobody in your life to change your thinking. See, if you're feeling sorry for yourself and you're talking to yourself, that's a bad conversation for yourself. You're already feeling sorry, and there's nobody to talk to but you, about you, regarding you, to tell you what you ought to do, and you aren't in a place to even hear you correctly, and what you are telling you is only related to how you feel, then your discussion with yourself is helping yourself to become worse off about you.

You need to be lifted out of your discouragement through honesty with God, through taking care of yourself physically in order to get the rest you need or the help you need, and to have somebody in your life who loves you
…
and you need to know from somebody who can see outside of you

Well, you are HERE (I am HERE). Take care of yourself. Talk to and Listen to those here outside of yourself.

Some things won’t change
If you live for their.change you become their victim
That is a victims mentality

Rediscovering who I am and who I want to be.

Want by Birdtalker

I don't want to have feet of stone
I want to follow this river of life where
It will have me go
I don't want to have feet of stone

I don't want to have a dagger tongue
I don't want my words to be a weapon
But a healing bond
I don't want to have a dagger tongue

I don't want to have a heavy mind
I don't want to hold these thoughts
That are chains of iron
I don't want to have a heavy mind

I want to have eyes of love
Count the beggar mans life precious life as my own
Offer my back for my brothers load
I want to have eyes of love

g

[Cadet]

Rediscovering who I am and who I want to be.

THIS is the hard thing to do - BUT it is what YOU must do!

Have faith that it will happen.