Grief and Gratitude, Grok - Shifting

[grok]

Repost of previous thread last post...continuity.

snippets

D19, "Daddy, come home soon. I don't like being a pseudo-parent."

G, "I will be home early Friday afternoon. You are doing fine. Don't stress and don't take on too much for yourself. You aren't the parent. Just let me know."
....

S12 caused an uproar the other evening. As he is learning to used the stove and oven he sometimes make a mistake. Last evening D19 asked him to make her some turkey bacon strips. It is something he knows how to do. This time he left a plastic lid on the glass stovetop "burner" where it partly melted and burnt.

The fumes are of course acrid and this freaked out D17 who was over the top scared and angry for her Cockatiel, Green-Cheeked Conure, and 4 chicks (sensitive to fumes and smoke). I was on a video call with them at the time and remotely mediated / supervised recovery operations. Doors/windows were opened, fans were set up, D17 and I went on a video call walk so she could express her fears and anger without yelling at her siblings.

G, "Yes D17, IT IS scary thinking your birds could die. Yes, FEELING angry is normal. Let us work on what to DO about it."

Birds and their cages got moved into D19's car with running air conditioning. D17 sat with them. We agreed that an hour after the house seemed aired out would be OK to bring them back in and put them in a bathroom on the other side of the house with the door closed.

I had S12, with D19's assist, scrub the stovetop with a vinegar and baking soda paste. Several rounds later it appears to be cleaned.

None of them gave any indication throughout a couple hours, of wanting to call W over to help. Huh...I'm 750 miles away.
....

10p tonight, D17, "I'm having S12 do chores. Dishes piled up and I don't like it. D19 left medicine cups all over crusting up and she needs not to do that. She's not that sick. I think the dogs have been fed, but I'll check and make sure..."[I]

G, [I]"Don't stress over all the things. It is bed time. I'll help set everything back to right and routine tomorrow."

D17, in her I'm busy voice, "I know daddy. I'm not stressing. I just don't like it and need to get some things done first."

G, "OK D17, Thank You for helping and making sure things get done."
....

It's 11p. I have to get up at 4:30a to go to the airport. D19 is in bed, I just directed S12 on brushing his teeth ASAP and go to bed. D17 and W are emotionally arguing downstairs in the dark kitchen. W seems to be justifying her choices and actions as God's will, seen through signs shown to her, ... it is all necessary to prepare her for something in the future.
....
highs and lows
I have amazing kids. I have a good job. I have pretty cool and flexible workmates and associates. I have a home and car. I had delicious upscale tacos and craft beer with teammates while laughing about drinking games made up to go with tonights US presidential "debate." I speed walked 5.8 miles along the beach boardwalk today. It was a beautiful day. Listening to -

Life is Good by Courtnie Ramirez ft. Apollo LTD

Thought I lost my joy but then I found it
Now all I wanna do is talk about it (all I wanna do)
Even when the world has got me stressing
I'm just gonna lean into the blessing (blessing)
No more second guessing
...
Throw my hands up, see the blessing all around me
No I can't help myself, just wanna sing about it
What can I say?
It's a beautiful day, I'm feeling like I should
I'm giving a place for all the ways that life is oh, so good

(chorus)
Oh, gonna let myself go
I'm feeling the freedom rise up in my soul (it's so good)
Life is good, life is good, yeah, it's oh, so good
Oh, no holding me back
'Cause I'm holding on to this hope that I have
Life is good, life is good, yeah, it's oh, so good


g


Previous Thread

[grok]

Shifting

Sitting in airports today. Kids keep asking when I'll be home. Even when I'm not trying to make them my validation...it does feel good. They have done so well this week substantially on their own.

Thinking on what to name the next thread had me contemplating my changes, how I feel differently from last spring and from when I started posting, how I've structured or not life with three children and me as W seems to pull back more, ... and I'm not sure I can easily define or encapsulate them.

So ... Shifting. Perhaps readers can see it better from outside.

grok (understanding) continued

Mach1,

Go ahead and recommend more threads. I've read through several more in the mean time. Some like me and some very different in values and outlook.

To the others also, please don't take lack of specific replies to be me not paying attention. I am. I think, just like the WW/WAW, but for very different reasons, I have limited bandwidth. Reading and thinking during the day takes dispersed effort... writing/posting coherent thoughts takes a lot more for me. I find my efforts and hours have truly been re-prioritized this last year.

g

[grok]

Independence Day

Happy Independence Day all.  It's been a pretty good week since I got back home last Friday.

D19 has been exhausted with her return to work while not fully recovered from illness.  Last day of antibiotics today.  She's had a tough time with those pills as she can't swallow them. Old issue with a tongue tie.  We have to crush them and mix into something she can swallow.  They taste terrible no matter what.  Tears.  and while I was gone, "Momma doesn't do it right daddy!"  Finally on day 7 we hit on mixing crushed pills with a green health drink.  Sleeping 10 hours and napping for hours also.

W texted me ~10p last night wanting to take the kids out for brunch.  She planned on showing up at 10a absent any other notifications.  The last minute late at night irked me a bit so I waited and replied after I had breakfast this morning, "I'll have them ready at 10.”. And so I did, as the kids didn’t seem to have any urgency to go. They were back by 1130.  

I made my own brunch just for me with a delicious omelet (Italian sweet sausage, fresh little onions and mushrooms, bell pepper and cherry tomatoes, feta on top) along with homemade bread with local peach jam.

Everyone seemed tired so I decided it was a rest day. Everything can wait. D17 and S12 were now complaining of pain/illness symptoms. A quiet mid day and everyone took naps. Some fun after with a BB gun and bow/arrow in the back yard. Something we picked up when D17, S12 and I had taken a trip to Bass Pro Shops last weekend while D19 napped. Then the movie “Independence Day” just for fun. D17 spent the movie yelling at the characters for their bad choices.

By the time the movie ended, it was time for our own fireworks. As usual, I had purchased 30 minutes worth of firework fun for the kids. It was fun with D19 jumping up and down with her excitement. D17 and S12 were feeling worse by now and sat out half of it. With how they described their symptoms I decided to take them in to the urgent care clinic tomorrow morning. And sure enough, S12 measured 102/103F now just before bed. Frustrating as he had a mile fever last Saturday but it had gone away since then! Cold medications for all and to bed.

Meditations on Blame and Forgiveness

I had a couple days of a single band playlist while driving.  Themes resonating. My own thoughts will have to wait for time to write. It’s almost midnight again.

What if we all just have different failure modes?

Only with the right motives can blame be placed…and dealt with.

Blame - Collective Soul

When you're willing to render
To the guilt you concede
When truth is your reason
Then lay the blame on me
When you unveil a conscience
And with peace you agree
When love is your constant
Then lay the blame on me

Question your answers
Your truth has no anger
Gather up your words
Redemption now offered

Leading to ...

Forgiveness - Collective Soul

In my silence, I would love to forget
Restitution hasn't come quite yet
And with one accord I keep pushing forth
While I stretch my heart to heal some more
....
As my seasons change, I've now grown to know
When one's heart creates, one's soul doesn't owe
So I wash away stains of yesterday
Then tempt my heart with love's display

It used to be all I'd want to learn
Was wisdom, trust, and truth
But now all I really want to learn
Is forgiveness for you

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

I have trouble swallowing pills too. Kind of funny as my regiment has had me on a weekly dose for years now. One would think it be easy by now. Alas, no. I do find it much easier to swallow pills when they are “hidden”; not just in water. My go to favourite is tomato juice.


Blame and forgiveness.

The road to forgiveness start with identifying the hurts and transgressions. And yes, assigning blame.

This blame does need to be expressed, and it is normal and healthy to for it to be expressed as hate. Ensure you assign/choose the correct/appropriate target(s) for such hatred. The deed. The transgression. Not the person. That is a key distinction.

Such hating, and for the moment unforgiving emotions, do feel powerful. Watch out, it’s an insidious trap. A deception. For it only masks our pain, our hurt, our vulnerability. That strength is an illusion. It keeps you shackled and stuck.

In time, and with purposeful conscious choice one starts to let go. To write paid in full on that invoice we are carrying in our heart. To no longer define ourselves as victim.

That previous distinction between sinner and sin becomes evermore important. Only God can forgive a person, a soul. We mere mortals do not, cannot, see all ends. Trying to forgive the person places one on some moral high ground. Looking down and deciding who to dispense to forgiveness upon or not. That is folly!

For, if one had lived, endured, the same pains/path as our spouse, would we have done similar? For me, I do not know. It’s easy to think I’d/we’d never do such a thing. It’s easy to blame and hate. Take the next step.

We let go our hatred. We open ourselves up to God. Open ourselves up to our own pain. Repeatedly. Often. And the wisdom/forgiveness seeps in:

Love the sinner. Forgive the sin.

Forgiveness is so much more powerful, yet doesn’t feel it. Peace feels oddly less and yet much much more. Freedom from those feelings of retribution, grudges, and such. A peace and contentment which is quite literally difficult to imagine until you are there.

We get out of the way, and let God take over. And the big reveal, it’s our life and journey we get out of the way of. Forgiveness is about you. Letting go and moving forward in your healing.

It is amazing!

One day, you wake up and find yourself thinking, feeling, and even believing differently about that person/transgressor. You will even pray for them. Sincerely, pray for them.

Your hurt has diminished.

You realize you are free!

You might not like them, yet you do forgive them. And forgiveness does not preclude holding them accountable.

It makes little sense until you find your way. I’ve had many people tell me they’d never forgive someone if they did that to them. Or what XW did is unforgivable. Non-forgiveness, or more correctly not forgiving, is a common view, especially in our society where we are bombarded with blame-filled messages all the time. It’s all around us, blaming and hating.

Let go. Be better, not bitter.

Be a beacon. Walk in the light.

You’re on the path. Keep moving forward.

Have a wonderful Sunday.

D

[Mach1]

Hey G,

Just swung by and saw your message.

The next set of threads are from a guy that I am proud to call a friend IRL.

I've often looked at the journey that a man has walked as a testament to his character. And I would venture that this journey that has been archived is one of the more inspirational ones that I've had the pleasure of reading.

I think that looking back, the majority of his posts on his threads were about defining his stand, his thought process in understanding what it meant to stand, to be a man, and mostly ?

Defining what true love meant to him. What it takes to love another person, and what that meant to him.

I hope you enjoy reading him, I certainly enjoyed walking beside him.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=userposts&view=started&id=27019


Hope things are well with you....

[grok]

Thanks Mach1,

things are ... well, I'll quote someone else's words from this forum, for what to tell people when they ask. "I'm doing surprisingly well!"

It is both true and helps reset my focus ... to doing surprisingly well. The majority of days anyway. The words we use and how they affect our internal trajectory. After getting nuked from orbit...recovery is uneven and will take a while.

I've started through Truegritter's threads. I've seen the name talked about in some of the older threads before... Too many tabs open on my browser saving each bit that resonates.

Instead of a song, how about a quote found in The Beauty of the In-Between by Mathew Nelson -

Prayer of Teilhard de Chardin -

Patient Trust

Above all, trust in the slow work of God.
We are quite naturally impatient in everything to reach the end without delay.
We should like to skip the intermediate stages.
We are impatient of being on the way to something unknown, something new.

And yet it is the law of all progress
that it is made by passing through some stages of instability—
and that it may take a very long time.

And so I think it is with you;
your ideas mature gradually—let them grow,
let them shape themselves, without undue haste.
Don’t try to force them on,
as though you could be today what time
(that is to say, grace and circumstances acting on your own good will)
will make of you tomorrow.

Only God could say what this new spirit
gradually forming within you will be.
Give Our Lord the benefit of believing
that his hand is leading you,
and accept the anxiety of feeling yourself
in suspense and incomplete.

—Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, SJ
excerpted from Hearts on Fire


g

[grok]

Kinda quiet around here last few days.

S12 and I are at a “lock-in” campout at a local church tonight. It’s hot and he fell asleep for a nap though the sun isn’t down yet. He’s still recovering from the sick/fever that has gone through all three kids now. Just a cough left for him. D17’s fever left last Monday so she went back to gym on Wed and Thur. W pushed her to do so, “you are fine,” after I told D17 I would support her staying home another day or two if she needed. She still had a hacking cough and exhaustion. Thursday night D17, ”Daddy, I feel hot. I don’t feel good.” Yep. She measured 103F. No gym on Friday, today, for her. More rest. D19 seems to be just about back to normal.

W? She did come over at noon for an hour or two each day I was at work. She brought the kids sugar free sodas. And some strawberries. Goodnights at the curb seem to have diminished in time to like 5 minutes instead of 30 to 40. She texts the kids that she is there now, not me. D19 came to me one evening, ”Dad, I told mom she could come in tonight. She needed to use the bathroom. She’s not feeling good.” The dogs went a little nuts. She doesn’t take the little dogs with her anymore. The kids seemed to be irritated that she came in and caused disruption to the evening routine. Just observing behaviors.

That Date of Destruction

This morning I received a text from W: ”It is past the 30 days and I did not receive a notification of a court date. Could you let me know if there are any Mondays or Fridays you’ll be unavailable over the next month, and when I call to talk to the clerk, we will choose the best date and time possible for less impact on your work.”

Evidently she never noticed the emails the court sent or they are in her spam folder. The court set a date of 9/11 in their email to me. Apropos date of destruction. I haven’t replied yet. I was feeling too snarky. Resisting something like, ”Yes, the court picked an appropriate date for the “chaos and destruction” I told you this would cause.” Should I forward my own emails from the court? Tell her to check her spam folder? Suggest she contact the clerk and make sure her email is correct? What is detached non-emotion based….? The message brought up feelings mild anger, irritation, and nausea. I emotionally do better just living my life with running dark. Living my life without thinking about this.

Readings

Well, … the number of themes expressed in this forum all in one paragraph.

The Beauty of the In Between - Matthew Nelson

“I’m fearful that far too many people want the great ending without the backstory. We want the benefits without paying the price. Again, we want the rewards without embracing the process. If we can skip the period of discipline, difficult decisions, perseverance, and anonymity, then why wouldn’t we simply choose to walk into success? The backstory, however, shapes who we become. It’s a necessary part of the process. Difficult things produce the most lasting and fruitful results. In fact, unless we surrender the results to God and embrace the reality that we may not ever be “successful,” then we will remain trapped in the cage of our expectations Great stories do not come easily. Somewhere along the way, somebody made a series of extremely difficult decisions, sacrificed something great, and repeatedly chose to get back up after facing failure.”

- What price will you pay?

- Trust the process.

- You won’t give up who you become from this backstory.

- Do the work.

- {Re)Define successful.

- Let go of your expectations.

- Difficult…Sacrifice….CHOOSE to get back up after failures.


g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Glad to hear that everyone is over whatever bug when through your household.

The duration of W’s roadside goodnights is some of the settling that occurs. Along with her directly informing the kids of her arrival. I’d not be surprised to see her start missing days too. Even getting to no goodnights. That is the likely evolution of such visits.

The kids seemed to be irritated that she came in and caused disruption to the evening routine.

Yes, kids, us, are all creatures of habit. Part of their healing is forming new routines (they had to after all) and Mom interfering and messing with their now comfortable nighttime routine will not go over well. They would not likely tolerate such disruptions for long.

As to the court date snafu. Which isn’t really, sounds like W just flaked or missed an email.

The message brought up feelings mild anger, irritation, and nausea.

Well done identifying and listening to your emotions. Really good to not respond while emotionally stirred - giving yourself that 24-48 hour buffer.

You have a couple of choices: Say nothing and let her contact the courts and get her stuff straightened out on her own. Or you can provide some level of guidance and/or information.

The first, remaining dim/dark is fine. You have no need to let her know your schedule as it already decided. Letting her feel and figure out her court dates is part of that heavy lifting. It’s ownership and responsibility of her ensuring her divorce process stays on the rails. 30 days and she hasn’t hear anything and didn’t do anything. Not really your problem, you have your information. She’s a grown woman, and she fired you as her supportive husband; allow her to feel it. To lay in the bed she made.

The latter choice is also acceptable. Be it at a minimal level, IMHO. You could let W know you received an email from the courts weeks ago and she might want to contact them to ensure her email correspondence is working correctly. You could provide her the date, although I’d lean to not.

With a court date and appointment for deliberation/negotiation, do you have a L? I suspect you do. At such a point into this process I’d be more dark and leave communications and the keeping of things running smoothly to my L. Not placing boulders on the path, nor paving it either. Also keeping your mental and emotional health a priority.

I’d likely go with option one. Like I said, W likely flaked, or it’s her attention span like that of a gnat, or she’s playing you and digging for information, or whatever. Nothing you need fix or control. Focus on you.

How was the campout? Did S12 and you have a good time?

D

[Ready2Change]

This morning I received a text from W: ”It is past the 30 days and I did not receive a notification of a court date. Could you let me know if there are any Mondays or Fridays you’ll be unavailable over the next month, and when I call to talk to the clerk, we will choose the best date and time possible for less impact on your work.”

Wait 24/48.

Email "My understanding: September 11 at 9am room 13, regards Grok" (or whatever time and place)

then text: "Sent you an email"




This is a business transaction. Treat her respectfully like someone you don't know. (for example:a hostess at a restaurant) No emotions.

[grok]

Thanks DnJ, R2C,

Lost Court messages found

I was figuring on giving it 48 hours over the weekend. I’m busy with my life you know…. and just over that mark, Monday morning, I received, paraphrased -

”I know you don’t want to do some things by message, but DO want to do others by messages. I am calling the clerk’s office and know you are on business travel next week. Are there dates you will be unavailable? I will be asking for Mondays or Fridays if they allow me. Do you need to go in the day after? If you want, we’ll discuss it in person.”

It felt like…see how reasonable I am, now do this on my timeline. So I waited until the evening and replied ”I checked yesterday. I received email from the court last month.”

Then I walked away from devices to be PRESENT. One of my 180s this year since I have been such a technology/gadget/information junkie.

I found later messages in succession ”Was there a date?” “Never mind, I see it”

As far as I can tell, I’ve never preferred a particular communications method. I just use what seems to suit when I decide to respond.

Monday Homeowner blues

In the mean time, D17 came to me last night about 10p and asked if it felt hot in the house. We went to the thermostat and checked. It read 79F but set to 76F. Uh Oh.

She’s smart and has been down this troubleshooting with me before. ”Dad, let’s check the condensation outlet overflow pan first. Since if it gets full it trips the safety cut off.” We checked, but it was dry. Time to check outside. A few months ago it was the outside air handler fan blades had broken loose from the collar holding it to the motor shaft. Now the compressor was cycling on for 30 seconds and then off again. The fan blades were NOT turning. The fins were HOT and the fan motor body was HOT.

^@#$%#%#@.

It is 10:30p.

Kids are almost in bed lights out.

It is 85F outside at almost 100% humidity.

The AC is NOT working.

-PAUSE-

Man Up G, yes it [censored], yes it will continue to suck, just execute. Those with a Mil background will know:

Embrace the Suck

I spent the next three hours finding tools, meters, and YouTube videos to help walk me though checking some system aspects related to the fan motor. I stripped a set screw also. The motor had mild resistance to turning. Sigh. By 2am I was going to bed having ordered a motor start capacitor, a contactor, a motor, and fan blades on Amazon. There was no definitive solution with all I tested. Order of likelihood is capacitor, motor, contactor. I don’t have time for this. I’m leaving on business next Monday. And the last technician had quoted 4X the price I was buying parts for on Amazon. I’ll be able to start replacing parts on Wed.

By 6:30a this morning after a few hours sleep I messaged one of the guys I support and asked to borrow his portable AC unit. Sure he says, let’s meet at the lab across town. We’ll sync on what equipment is going where and I’ll hand you the AC unit. With that running all day our downstairs area has been kept to 79F while upstairs reached 90F. I worked from home at the kitchen table in that balmy 79F.

The following messages…what?!

Then, just about at the end of the work day I received the following from W (paraphrased) -

Good afternoon. I received the alimony checks, for June and for July. 2 out of 18 installments. This message is to make you aware of two checks coming to you on July 23rd equaling the payments. These are to go toward paying for my car, please, and are paid of my own free will without your request or coercion. Do not bother increasing your amount. Stay on schedule. Do not bother returning this money to me—I will pay it to you again and this will become a farce.

I would also like to get together after the divorce is final and give you back all money that you consider yours. If that is all of it, then every last cent will be yours. If you do not believe me, pick a lawyer and we will set up a date. I would be happy to write this statement out and get it notarized or find someone to draw up a contract.

In our SIGNED Legal Settlement, I accepted the vehicle low interest debt in exchange for keeping more investments. This seemed reasonable to me. It is a legal contract and I’m not about to break it. I can stuff what she sends me into a separate account for now or just keep track of the amounts or ??? She is free to do what she wants with the Alimony monies. But sending it to ME? How does this affect the agreement if she pays off a debt I accepted as mine?

And then the second part…. I’ve never felt or indicated that I considered anything but half our assets mine. I regarded US as a 50/50 partnership no mater who was earning at the moment. This is what the SIGNED Legal Settlement reflects. I have stated this outright to her. And once the assets are in her name alone, she can’t just give them without a huge “gift tax” penalty.

I’m not sure what to think about any of this. Or how to reply. I asked the ladies at the pub trivia night. The only one who ventured an answer suggested that if she is planning to hook up with an OM, she doesn’t want the OM to get ahold of it. Out of Context problem.

Rise by Shawn McDonald

Sometimes my heart is on the ground
And hope is nowhere to be found

Love is a figment I once knew

And yet I hold on to what I know is true



Yes I will rise

Out of these ashes rise

From this trouble I have found

And this rubble on the ground
I will rise


g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Nice to see W found/figured out the schedule without too much fuss.

Unfortunate your AC quit working. The symptoms you describe certainly sounds like a blown starting capacitor. A locked rotor condition would cause substantial heating of the motor and its windings. Usually such a condition would operate some protective device - fuse, circuit breaker, and such. Perhaps that particular motor has resettable overloads. The high current heats the tripping element, and shuts off the feed. The motor and circuitry cools a bit, the overload resets, reenergizing the motor, and starts the locked rotor process over again.

Sounds like you have proper replacement parts coming to get the AC up and running in short order.

She’s smart and has been down this troubleshooting with me before. ”Dad, let’s check the condensation outlet overflow pan first. Since if it gets full it trips the safety cut off.”

I like her troubleshooting mindset.


As for STBXW,

For what’s it’s worth, keep to your side of the street with the alimony payments and if W wants to send you extra funds, so be it. There are many soon to ex-spouses, or ex-spouses, that will go through a “generous” period. A time where they try to alleviate their guilt and shame. It usually doesn’t last too long. Sounds like she is well into it. Even offering to get her offer notarized or drafted by a lawyer. For whatever her reasoning (and that word is used rather lightly here) she feels it important that you believe her and her sincerity in this.

I would suggest simply reply: Thank you. I will remain on schedule.

I’d touch base with your L, just to ensure no future problems can arise with this gifting and paying funds to you. You may indeed have to claim such as income and pay some tax; not at the top of the list of terrible problems.

I do empathize g. I am a recipient of that weird generosity. Feelings, like guilt, will stir and float about. You know there is/was no coercion, no strong-arming, nothing like that. And you know you cannot control her. Allow her do as she will. Use the extra funds for the kids. Not to worry, there are plenty of expenses with kids. Lol!

Hope the AC is back up and running soon.

D

[grok]

AC and Quick update for now

for STBXW's response needs its own post. I did send her "Thank you. I will remain on schedule. Also, received a charge of $120 for XYZ.com. Is this your subscription?"

I did not reply. I have been stopping my logic and need to explain. To try and fix faulty thinking. I know her response is based on emotion...how she FEELS right now. I'm working on not letting it occupy my head and heart space or disturb my peace. Application is always different than intellectual knowledge!

Secondary project. WHY do her responses trigger certain responses in me?

DnJ, I'm glad to see your analysis matches mine. Always validating to see someone agreeing! The motor does have thermal protection circuits. And going WAY back with EMEC and building design factors classes ...most of these should be induction motors (starter cap is a big clue) which will certainly overheat due to high current when stopped.

The AC is back up and working. I decided to try replacing the starting capacitor first as it was the most likely failure point. And it is the easiest to replace...in the rain...LOL. Sure enough, it started up and took the next six hours to cool the house down. It was still working this morning. I'll replace the fan blades when that part comes in and hold the contactor and new motor for a week, just in case, before returning.

Peace of mind while I am gone next week.

On having a L

Since I convinced STBXW to go the fully mediated route through a neutral L, I don't have one on retainer. This is my attempt to minimize cost. To use one where warranted. Where I need to check for known unknowns and unknown unknowns. I have used one recommended by a friend for review of the Marital Settlement and Parenting Plan. He pointed out areas of risk and implications of various choices I could make. He complimented me on putting the children first. Once or twice in 30 years had he seen an ex-spouse allowed back in a home to keep the kids stable. Cake eating? Reduction in consequences? Maybe.

Though it is uncontested, and the terms are fully agreed, I am considering if I should have the L represent me on the court date. A fully agreed package is supposed to be pro forma, as the court has better things to do with their time. but still.....

realization

This is the first time I've used the term STBXW. Huh. I'll have to think on why.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Glad it was a capacitor. Easier repair and back up and running.

The secondary project, the realization, you’re doing well my friend.

I’m on a 6500km road trip / vacation with my Mom and Aunt. It’s to attend a funeral/memorial of another Aunt, and grew into a time away journey as well. Pretty grateful the AC works as it is blazing hot.

Well, off for another day of driving. Take care,

D

[grok]

Safe travels DnJ. That is a long trip...though can be quite enjoyable with good company and fun stops! Sometime I'll have to tell the tale of how my W got her minivan...while on a family road trip from SE USA to NE USA and back again.

Haven't made time yet to write out the latest back and forth with STBXW. Oddities, concerns, and I am definitely on shore trying to be a lighthouse while she is definitely in that rowboat in the waves...

Weekend plans

Prepping today with S12 and D17 for the beach tomorrow morning. Have to go early to get a parking spot. And before it gets too hot. D19 is out tonight on her side gig watching 4 kids for the evening ... after a full day's work.

Quotes

I've been pondering this a bit, since I saw it on X in my feed.

GK Chesterton - What’s Wrong With the World - Chapter 7

"The principle is this: that in everything worth having, even in every pleasure, there is a point of pain or tedium that must be survived, so that the pleasure may revive and endure. The joy of battle comes after the first fear of death; the joy of reading Virgil comes after the bore of learning him; the glow of the sea-bather comes after the icy shock of the sea bath; and the success of the marriage comes after the failure of the honeymoon. All human vows, laws, and contracts are so many ways of surviving with success this breaking point, this instant of potential surrender.

In everything on this earth that is worth doing, there is a stage when no one would do it, except for necessity or honor. It is then that the Institution upholds a man and helps him on to the firmer ground ahead. Whether this solid fact of human nature is sufficient to justify the sublime dedication of Christian marriage is quite an other matter, it is amply sufficient to justify the general human feeling of marriage as a fixed thing, dissolution of which is a fault or, at least, an ignominy. The essential element is not so much duration as security. Two people must be tied together in order to do themselves justice; for twenty minutes at a dance, or for twenty years in a marriage In both cases the point is, that if a man is bored in the first five minutes he must go on and force himself to be happy. Coercion is a kind of encouragement; and anarchy (or what some call liberty) is essentially oppressive, because it is essentially discouraging. If we all floated in the air like bubbles, free to drift anywhere at any instant, the practical result would be that no one would have the courage to begin a conversation. It would be so embarrassing to start a sentence in a friendly whisper, and then have to shout the last half of it because the other party was floating away into the free and formless ether. The two must hold each other to do justice to each other. If Americans can be divorced for “incompatibility of temper” I cannot conceive why they are not all divorced. I have known many happy marriages, but never a compatible one. The whole aim of marriage is to fight through and survive the instant when incompatibility becomes unquestionable. For a man and a woman, as such, are incompatible."

g

[grok]

What goes on in G’s head, but he stays in STFU / dark mode
- Subtitle, G’s irritation is let out here

Ok, attempt at paraphrasing the next set of interactions

Part 1

Remember this comes after W messages that
1) she is sending back the first two alimony amounts and wants me to apply them to the car (hers) loan I assumed as part of the settlement.
2) wants a different lawyer than the mediator we used so as to “give you back all money that you consider yours. If that is all nearly $xxx,xxx, then every last cent”. meaning the 50% (almost 7 digits) of our net worth….

I’ve never considered any but 50% as mine. We never had a separate hers and mine. Everything has been joint.

Part 2

G, “Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com.  Is this one of yours?”

W’s paragraphs reply shortened to:
- yes, for my gig work
- I will go back to the RV and update
- $xxx can be from over-repayment above
- $xx can be from the ~$xxxx I paid for kids school

G thinks, and stays in STFU mode.
- What it was for didn’t matter, I just wanted to know if it was W’s, fraud, or something of mine I had forgotten about.
- Why would you go back to the RV now to update it?
- I wasn’t asking for repayment.
- I know you purchased S12’s and D17’s textbooks since they arrived at my home.
- You never told me how much $$ of direct school expenses you paid or for what.
- I can’t reimburse you without knowing what you spent.

You see, even before working on a settlement, I said I would pay all kids customary direct costs for school, etc. It is codified in the settlement. All the kids automatic billed stuff comes to me. Every time she has let me know of an expense, I have paid it. No questions. No complaints. I never had expectations of her paying for the children… how is this any different? Peace of mind coming from accepting 100% responsibility for my children. No expectations of W. I’ve seen and heard the unhappy hearts that come from disputes over child support.

Part 3

Continued paraphrased W’s long paragraphs broken apart interspersed with G’s thoughts from inside STFU mode (no actual replies). A little venting here.

W - Let’s not do tit for tat. Just tell me if my expenses. It’s not on purpose.
G - Um, I wasn’t tit for tat. I noticed when checking the card charges this week. A few days later when I wasn’t busy with other things I asked politely if it was your expense.

W - I am paying $2,xxx / month for kids’ expenses, lots of gas.
G - WT*?! Are you spending on? They live 100% with me. D19 pays most of her own share now, part of giving her the safety of home while practicing what it takes to be on her own. They and I go shopping anytime they need clothes, supplies, etc. Everything a home provides I pay for. I pay for D17s sports. And on. Also, gas? You spend on gas because of where you chose to live. Your choice of how much to drive back and forth. Echos from DB forums on accountability for choices and kryptonite

W - D17 doesn’t make her own food to sports and work and I pay the bill.
G - F’n parent up W. That is your choice, not child support. Tell her no, you will not take her out to eat after every single morning gymnastics practice And every single evening work schedule. You can pack a lunch box and so can D17. The fridge and pantry is stocked full.

W - state child support and alimony rules are screwy, though we don’t make them. Child support should be shared the best we can
G - We came to a fair agreement. I pay you a large chunk every month for 18 months to cover both. I only pay at all because we agreed to continue home school and you claimed to be unable to do much work when doing so.

W - I don’t ask for even a tiny bit of expenses the kids cause because asking “may I” is crazy. I don’t care about the agreement.
G - *frustration*. It’s not asking for permission if I already agreed to it. Where does this come from? I just need minimal accountability of telling me how much and for what. Every time you told me of an expense, I have reimbursed with no comment.

W - I don’t mind paying kids expenses. We are sharing kids 50/50, so I don’t mind paying as much as I can. God will provide.
G - I’m providing, still. You have been living primarily off savings/investments I earned for OUR FUTURE. I’ve sent alimony payments to provide as agreed. You JUST SENT THEM BACK!…to pay off a low interest car loan early. Backwards of what any financial advisor would tell you. 50/50? This summer you average 2 or 3 hours each week day with them. You set up your place as so uninviting to them, the kids have not gone over of their own will.

W - I don’t mind helping with the house. I cleaned up the back yard last month and trimmed up the hedges today. let me know if that eases the burden and what else since I am using your space.
G - So….this is … new. Those were misc things that didn’t need doing right now. But you don’t pick up after yourself in the home when there. You don’t take care of your rabbit. Or take it to your place as you promised 4 times. You haven’t touched your stuff taking up half the garage or half the “den” area in months. But the hedges? Oh, and using “my space?” No, you are in my HOME.

W - I will be showing S12’s school for accountability now. Feel free to let me know if you have concerns.
G - Um, OK. I’ve been observing without expectations. Having plans no matter which way you turn out.

Part 4, Next day

W - I’d like to take S12 two states up in early Aug. to see his friend X before the school year.
G - Hmmmm, I have no issue with the trip. This is a ~12 hour drive. Proposed dates are 4 days. S12’s friend X used to be somewhat close but hasn’t been for years. Missing some logic here. Mind reading other motives. Friend X’s mom was one of W’s friends who left her husband. This guy had some real issues. i.e. kids could go visit if W’s friend was the adult in charge, but not if he was. I know, not just think, W and her conferred on divorce and how much happier it was to meet a new man to fill her needs.

To respond
After all that, I haven’t replied yet. Short Simple Business Maybe:

“I have no conflicts with those dates.”

The rest? Seems to be low energy passive aggressive spew. Seems kind and logical at the surface…until you look underneath and know the rest of the story.

Next I need to tell her I’m taking the kids to the west coast to visit my family for a couple weeks in early Sept. And ask if she will take care of the animals while we are away.

Maybe:

“I’ve planned the usual annual trip to visit my family from x-x Sept. Will you be able to take care of our animals for these dates?”

What do you all think?


g

[MamaG]

Hi G!
I often see advice for how to respond to myself and don’t want to send you down the wrong path.

I’m stopping in to say hello. Our timelines are similar, but have certainly taken different paths.This is such a hard road. You seem to navigate the waters well. From my seat, you are very mature, a good dad, and levelheaded. You work hard and keep your head high. You may not know it, but from time to time I look to your posts for a role model. Reading your quotes and listening to how you handle life inspires me to do better. I can see myself in your situation. I also am a leader in IT. I need to keep it together by day. Sometimes it’s just exhausting to stay together when I come home. You handle yourself well and with grace. Your kids are very lucky to have you. Hang in there.

[Valeska19]

What goes on in G’s head, but he stays in STFU / dark mode
- Subtitle, G’s irritation is let out here

Ok, attempt at paraphrasing the next set of interactions

Part 1

Remember this comes after W messages that
1) she is sending back the first two alimony amounts and wants me to apply them to the car (hers) loan I assumed as part of the settlement.
2) wants a different lawyer than the mediator we used so as to “give you back all money that you consider yours. If that is all nearly $xxx,xxx, then every last cent”. meaning the 50% (almost 7 digits) of our net worth….

I’ve never considered any but 50% as mine. We never had a separate hers and mine. Everything has been joint.

Part 2

G, “Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com.  Is this one of yours?”

W’s paragraphs reply shortened to:
- yes, for my gig work
- I will go back to the RV and update
- $xxx can be from over-repayment above
- $xx can be from the ~$xxxx I paid for kids school

G thinks, and stays in STFU mode.
- What it was for didn’t matter, I just wanted to know if it was W’s, fraud, or something of mine I had forgotten about.
- Why would you go back to the RV now to update it?
- I wasn’t asking for repayment.
- I know you purchased S12’s and D17’s textbooks since they arrived at my home.
- You never told me how much $$ of direct school expenses you paid or for what.
- I can’t reimburse you without knowing what you spent.

You see, even before working on a settlement, I said I would pay all kids customary direct costs for school, etc. It is codified in the settlement. All the kids automatic billed stuff comes to me. Every time she has let me know of an expense, I have paid it. No questions. No complaints. I never had expectations of her paying for the children… how is this any different? Peace of mind coming from accepting 100% responsibility for my children. No expectations of W. I’ve seen and heard the unhappy hearts that come from disputes over child support.

Part 3

Continued paraphrased W’s long paragraphs broken apart interspersed with G’s thoughts from inside STFU mode (no actual replies). A little venting here.

W - Let’s not do tit for tat. Just tell me if my expenses. It’s not on purpose.
G - Um, I wasn’t tit for tat. I noticed when checking the card charges this week. A few days later when I wasn’t busy with other things I asked politely if it was your expense.

W - I am paying $2,xxx / month for kids’ expenses, lots of gas.
G - WT*?! Are you spending on? They live 100% with me. D19 pays most of her own share now, part of giving her the safety of home while practicing what it takes to be on her own. They and I go shopping anytime they need clothes, supplies, etc. Everything a home provides I pay for. I pay for D17s sports. And on. Also, gas? You spend on gas because of where you chose to live. Your choice of how much to drive back and forth. Echos from DB forums on accountability for choices and kryptonite

W - D17 doesn’t make her own food to sports and work and I pay the bill.
G - F’n parent up W. That is your choice, not child support. Tell her no, you will not take her out to eat after every single morning gymnastics practice And every single evening work schedule. You can pack a lunch box and so can D17. The fridge and pantry is stocked full.

W - state child support and alimony rules are screwy, though we don’t make them. Child support should be shared the best we can
G - We came to a fair agreement. I pay you a large chunk every month for 18 months to cover both. I only pay at all because we agreed to continue home school and you claimed to be unable to do much work when doing so.

W - I don’t ask for even a tiny bit of expenses the kids cause because asking “may I” is crazy. I don’t care about the agreement.
G - *frustration*. It’s not asking for permission if I already agreed to it. Where does this come from? I just need minimal accountability of telling me how much and for what. Every time you told me of an expense, I have reimbursed with no comment.

W - I don’t mind paying kids expenses. We are sharing kids 50/50, so I don’t mind paying as much as I can. God will provide.
G - I’m providing, still. You have been living primarily off savings/investments I earned for OUR FUTURE. I’ve sent alimony payments to provide as agreed. You JUST SENT THEM BACK!…to pay off a low interest car loan early. Backwards of what any financial advisor would tell you. 50/50? This summer you average 2 or 3 hours each week day with them. You set up your place as so uninviting to them, the kids have not gone over of their own will.

W - I don’t mind helping with the house. I cleaned up the back yard last month and trimmed up the hedges today. let me know if that eases the burden and what else since I am using your space.
G - So….this is … new. Those were misc things that didn’t need doing right now. But you don’t pick up after yourself in the home when there. You don’t take care of your rabbit. Or take it to your place as you promised 4 times. You haven’t touched your stuff taking up half the garage or half the “den” area in months. But the hedges? Oh, and using “my space?” No, you are in my HOME.

W - I will be showing S12’s school for accountability now. Feel free to let me know if you have concerns.
G - Um, OK. I’ve been observing without expectations. Having plans no matter which way you turn out.

Part 4, Next day

W - I’d like to take S12 two states up in early Aug. to see his friend X before the school year.
G - Hmmmm, I have no issue with the trip. This is a ~12 hour drive. Proposed dates are 4 days. S12’s friend X used to be somewhat close but hasn’t been for years. Missing some logic here. Mind reading other motives. Friend X’s mom was one of W’s friends who left her husband. This guy had some real issues. i.e. kids could go visit if W’s friend was the adult in charge, but not if he was. I know, not just think, W and her conferred on divorce and how much happier it was to meet a new man to fill her needs.

To respond
After all that, I haven’t replied yet. Short Simple Business Maybe:

“I have no conflicts with those dates.”

Looks like she hit a nerve. You took the bait. Hook, line, and sinker.

No one can be calm all the time. We are human after all. But this conversation served really no purpose. It's not like she will take all you said and do better next time. That's not where your relationship is right now. Still too emotional.

Next I need to tell her I’m taking the kids to the west coast to visit my family for a couple weeks in early Sept. And ask if she will take care of the animals while we are away.

Maybe:

“I’ve planned the usual annual trip to visit my family from x-x Sept. Will you be able to take care of our animals for these dates?”

What do you all think?


g

I personally wouldn't ask her to watch anything. Outside of co-parenting those kids, rely on her for nothing.

[grok]

Hi V,

...it looks like I was too oblique. It wasn't an actual conversation.

Her parts she actually messaged to me.

My only actual reply was

“Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com. Is this one of yours?”

All of the other "replies" from me were ONLY in my own head. I was externally in receive and STFU mode. Wait 48 hours and write it out here mode.

I have said zero, messaged zero. This was venting here.

You are right though, I took the bait in the sense it occupied too much of my head and emotional space for a few days.

g

[grok]

Hi MamaG,

I often see advice for how to respond to myself and don’t want to send you down the wrong path.

That's OK. Say what you see. You will see, recognize things I do not.

This is such a hard road.

I have this check of my state. I hold out my hand in front of me. Flat. I see how much it shakes as I try to hold it still. It took over a year to mostly not shake. Now? Only on bad days.

I have a Mormon neighbor who periodically evangelizes the neighborhood door to door. I talk with her and discuss. People of goodwill. Upon hearing the bones of my story she quietly said, "it took me ten years to recover from my divorce. I'll pray for you."

You may not know it, but from time to time I look to your posts for a role model. Reading your quotes and listening to how you handle life inspires me to do better.

Thank you. We encourage each other to survive, do better, then thrive. Just like I receive much from reading others stories, I hope others can take something from mine.

I can see myself in your situation. I also am a leader in IT. I need to keep it together by day. Sometimes it’s just exhausting to stay together when I come home.

Leader in IT? *Laughs* What a history I have. The closest term you could use for me is Systems Engineer in the old sense, not the IT sense. IT was a side effort to enable my other work. My professional IT trail includes
- Modifying Intel 486 based computers to speed up rendering of large Autocad models,
- In charge of 5 person shop running a 800 person org’s servers, clients, and network.
- Constructing the equivalent of the A+ course and teaching dozens of administrative assistants who had been redesignated as IT support
- Evaluating sensor data backhaul systems…SATCOM, internet, synchronous and asynchronous links, fiber, radio, etc…
- And on

exhausting sometimes? just sometimes? *wry smile* I find it a little easier keeping it together by focusing on just today’s troubles. Keeping it together one day at a time. For -

when I was going through this, my mantra was

Today is not the day that I quit

Maybe I will quit tomorrow, yet I will wait to see what tomorrow brings

Then repeat that tomorrow

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2713361#Post2713361

And

“So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

It’s good to see you vented here, and remained silent for at least 48 hours.

W provided quite the barrage of conversation. Something I see, you are looking at it rationally. Looking at things in a manner of how would I fix it if this were my problem. Your views and statements are correct, yet that doesn’t and won’t really matter to W. More look at her conversation in its entirety with less desire to help/fix/etc. And without needing to defend yourself. Just listen and validate/respond where appropriate.

G, “Thank you. I will remain on schedule.
Also, I was billed $xxx for yyy.com. Is this one of yours?”

W’s paragraphs reply shortened to:
- yes, for my gig work
- I will go back to the RV and update
- $xxx can be from over-repayment above
- $xx can be from the ~$xxxx I paid for kids school

W - Let’s not do tit for tat. Just tell me if my expenses. It’s not on purpose.

W - I am paying $2,xxx / month for kids’ expenses, lots of gas.

W - D17 doesn’t make her own food to sports and work and I pay the bill.

W - state child support and alimony rules are screwy, though we don’t make them. Child support should be shared the best we can.

W - I don’t ask for even a tiny bit of expenses the kids cause because asking “may I” is crazy. I don’t care about the agreement.

W - I don’t mind paying kids expenses. We are sharing kids 50/50, so I don’t mind paying as much as I can. God will provide.

W - I don’t mind helping with the house. I cleaned up the back yard last month and trimmed up the hedges today. let me know if that eases the burden and what else since I am using your space.

W - I will be showing S12’s school for accountability now. Feel free to let me know if you have concerns.


Next day

W - I’d like to take S12 two states up in early Aug. to see his friend X before the school year.

It looks like W is playing nice, even cleaning up the hedges to ease your burdens. (lol, I’m with you. She doesn’t clean up after herself, hasn’t taken the rabbit, and stuff still in the den and garage. However, those hedges are all fixed up.) Anyhow, point being she’s playing/being nice, pointing out all she’s done and doing, and “the next day” unveils why - to ask about taking S12 on a trip.


Just listen and validate/respond where appropriate.

To respond
After all that, I haven’t replied yet. Short Simple Business Maybe:

“I have no conflicts with those dates.”

Could add a bit of validation. Let her know she’s been heard.

(Assuming you spoke to S12, and he actually wants to go on the trip.)



“G: W, good point. I will let you know if I have any expenses of your’s. Please let me know if you have any expenses for me.

The dates for your trip work well for me. Hope you and S12 have a good time.

Also, I am looking at visiting my family during Sept x-x and plan on taking the kids with me.”



I wouldn’t ask W about looking after the animals during your trip. Arrange other care in your absence. Hire a friend of the kids, utilize a kennel, etc.

Hope your Sunday is going well.

D

[grok]

Returning home

As DnJ said

Quite enjoyable.

And also, nice to be back home.

My work trip last week went well and was socially fun with the others.

While I was driving to lunch with three other men in the car one day I got a call from D17. I messaged I can’t talk but she kept calling. It turned out W was there with a flat tire. D17 was changing it. She called looking for some of the tools and some advice. Well… she got good advice from all the men in the car…LOL. They thought is was awesome that D17 was taking charge and doing the job. They all wondered what the heck W was doing/not doing. And why W wasn’t using the roadside service # that I paid for with the original warranty purchase. I have no idea and didn’t ask.

I arrived back home Friday evening and loved on the kids. I waited until the next morning late to ask for their help in household pickup/cleanup that didn’t happen while I was gone. A reset relax day plus back to school shopping for D17 and S12 supplies with D19 advising. Picked up burrito supplies for dinner we all helped make.

Sunday… ooof. up, animals, make some breakfast things, herd them out the door for church, 79c Slushies for all on the way home, make lunch, NAP. 2:30p…. No more time for resting. S12 and I head out for groceries and supplies for the week. D19 and D17 go out for shirts and dress shopping. Back home and then take D17 to practice driving. Make dinner things, We all make next day lunch things, loose at connect 4 game to D17, kitchen cleanup, animals, get ready for bed time. Whew!

I noticed I feel a bit irritated when the kids are at home spending happy time with W. Why? I’m not sure. It feels like ignoring this destruction and treating it like W expressed once, ”The parenting class told me we’re still family, we just have two separate homes.”

A conversation before my travel
Alt title - On why I mentioned her the rowboat in the storm and me attempting to be the lighthouse

W came over early in the evening while I was eating a salad D17 and I made.

W, ”Can I talk to you without the children please?”
G, ”Sure, let’s go outside.”

W, ”Are you considering asking for 100% custody? Have you considered it? I wanted to ask because I can tell when people are lying.”
G, pause, think, ”No. I have not considered sole custody. I’m not keeping the kids from you.”

I did NOT voice any of my speculative considered options. I have not considered sole custody because her behavior so far and the kids living with me did not raise those concerns. I have, however, been aware of her behaviors and have my thresholds where I would be concerned.

W, ”THEY have been psychologically attacking me. Their techniques work even when I know they are techniques… Telling me I’ll be considered I’m an unfit parent and lose my kids.”.

She starts weeping gently. I have no reason to believe it isn’t genuinely what she believes and feels.

”G, that is the one thing that would break me. … THEY sabotaged my water, it’s why I permanently lost running water in my RV. My job cleaning the RV park facilities has been interfered with and vandalized. THEY have caused me trouble all over the county. THEY call themselves Christians…when they are not Christian like at all. G, be careful who you tell things to. ”

G, I listened with full attention. No other expressions than focused attention. ”OK W. …. and… You know… I’ve said… whatever is on paper, I’m not keeping the children from you. “

W nods and departs.

Backstory gleaned from conversations with W - THEY refers to OM’s circle of friends/acquaintances who were not part of the initial seduction game. When THEY found out what was really going on … all were upset with her and have been persecuting her ever since. On social media and the real world. How much is true reality? I don’t know.

I reflected none of my internal commentary…. The children are NOT a tool for me.

This is the only place I vent this. It would not be helpful. Vindictive/angry parts of me felt -
- what did you expect passive aggressively attempting the destruction of two families?
- Chasing an EA, divorce, in hopes OM would kick his wife to the curb is unfit parenting,
- how dumb are you (she is not BTW) to think there is such a thing permanent running water loss in an RV? It is just plumbing in ground or vehicle.
- It’s not within Christian principles to do what you are doing.
- Of all the people in this world, you should know me better than to think I carelessly or vindictively tell people things.

Compassionate me had me wondering about detachment -
- I am grieved W is under this pressure. It still hurts to see.
- thinking your children will be taken from you by a court …. … no words.
- I could fix plumbing… no, I’m not going to.
- genuine tears/pain make me want to hold her. Then I think no, she wants OM to hold her.


Redemption Song by Apollo LTD

Everybody's got a story
And here's a little bit of mine
Took a prodigal fall from glory
'Til I finally saw the light
…
This is my redemption song
My heart cries hallelujah
Who I was is dead and gone
And the old me's looking new, yeah
You filled my soul with melodies
Heaven won't stop singing over me
I'm a child of God and I belong
This is my redemption song

Now I've got a hope and future
This is what freedom's like
I'm running to a new tomorrow
And I'm leaving yesterday behind

g

[Catman19]

Stay strong grok, i know this isnt easy and you are an amazing example for your children. Me thinks W is going through paranoia stage as at this stage they think everyone is out to get them because the guilt and shame is starting to sit heavy on her. As much as she tries to put on a facade of being in a better place the infatuation stage of OM has begun to lose its lustre. I seen you are practicing stoicism for yourself and it seems to be paying off. Your children will see that you are there for them and that is where your emotional energy should be focused. Keep it up and eventually you will realize what your worth is and your children will acknowledge that.

[grok]

The End of All Things

Oh, Those playlist items on the way in to work...has me in a contemplative mood... (or melancholy is a secondary trait of mine)

overcoming the challenges, the changes in you, and the cost...

Snips (from web sites) representing my incomplete train of thoughts. the echos of changes in ourselves in this trauma.

The End of all Things - Lord of the Rings: Return of the King (soundtrack)

The End of All Things is the fifty-seventh scene
...
Sam half-dragging Frodo out through the doorway. They find a raised boulder for what they believe will be their final respite. Frodo, no longer weighed down with the burden of the Ring, exclaims "It's done". He lays down, with a sea of molten lava surrounding them, and closes his eyes.
...
Themes
...
A theme of The Lord of the Rings is the deep cost for the characters to protect the people and places they love, and how they will be forever changed despite the victory.
...
Aragorn has spent the series avoiding his destiny and the film’s ending shows what beautiful things can happen when someone decides to become who they were meant to be.
...
The four main hobbits...they have been changed greatly by their journey while their home and those closest to them have remained largely unchanged and ignorant of the dangers they narrowly avoided. For the longest time, the hobbits were out of their element, away from Hobbiton, but being back, they again find themselves out of place.
...
The things that they used to mind don’t seem to matter as much...much of what they have seen and learned lingers over them
...
Frodo speaks rhetorically to himself about what it means to move on when others can't move with you.
...
the price it cost means that he can no longer be a part of this world. Frodo saves Middle-earth for everyone at the cost of saving himself.
...
about a traumatic journey into dark and cruel places, and the difficulty that comes with trying to rebuild a normal life on the other side.
...
is about picking up the pieces after failure, about trying even when there is no hope of success
...
“How do you pick up the threads of an old life, when in your heart, you know there is no going back?”
...
The Story will go on...

in a moment of abject despair, Sam had cradled Frodo’s nearly lifeless body and whispered, “Don’t leave me alone. Don’t go where I can’t follow.”
...
Sam never left Frodo’s side, never lost faith in him, never left him behind. Now Frodo is leaving him for good, and he can never follow ... In the end, the true final scene ... It’s hardly even a scene. Sam walks home, turning Frodo’s words over and over in his mind. “Your part in the story will go on….you will have to be one and whole for many years.”

g

[Kind18]

It’s not within Christian principles to do what you are doing.

These sorts of thoughts are a waste of time.

Assuming that she should have better moral standards because of her religion is a cheeseless tunnel.

Aetheists do good things, and bad things.

Christians do good things, and bad things.

During the initial stages of my separation, my ex wife would take the children on her weekend and sit in church singing and praying - while she was actively having an affair.

I think overall you handled the interaction very well.

The person you thought you knew doesn’t exist. Either never did, or is missing in action (likely for many years).

Set your expectations of her very, very low - it makes your life easier.

The only person whose thoughts and behaviours and morality you control - are yours!

[grok]

Frist! (old internet joke)

Hey everyone! Happy to see the site back up and new certs in place.

Now to write all those things I've been thinking all week without posting.

g

[grok]

Hi Kind18,

Thanks for bombing the forums from/with experience. heh, not sarcasm. I learn or get re-enforcement on better behaviors and approaches for me from each one.

STORM and RAIN

The kids and I are drying out after storm Debby passed by. Unfortunately the county had closed the parks and preserves or we would have gone out playing in the rain.

We almost didn't go out at all because D17 and D19 had a bit of a brief emotional blowout (sisters close in age, quite different personallities, it is gonna happen) ending with D17 walking away with "really, f-you!" THAT was a step to far and I stepped in. " Go to your rooms, NOW. Time for you both to cool off." I closed their doors.

Man up G, W is gone and you are IT. How the *** do I handle female sibling conflict?

I talked to each after 10 minutes. Both of them got "I'm not going to solve your conflict. I do require you to apologize to her for your over-the-top attitude. We are NOT going out until that happens. " From each I received a litany of "but" and "just" and "she did x" and ... For each I said, "yes, that may be true. If you would like, later, I can give you each of your "but" "just" "she did x" and show how you both did wrong. That is not what I asked for." I closed their doors.

It took another 20 minutes before they were ready. I busied myself with other things until they each came by with some form of "I said sorry for the over-the-top. But NOT what SHE did. Can we go out now?" Ha! "Yes, we can go now. Thank You for apologizing for the over-the-top."

It was fun playing frisbee in the pouring rain in the street. LOL S12, D17, D19 and I were all laughing in the rain.

Oh, and S12 and I had to take the dogs for their evening walk (no peeing in the house pls) in POURING rain at 10pm because it wasn't letting up. We decided to forgo umbrellas and raincoats and just be soaked. The dogs loved/hated it and got frisky. We needed five towels.

THAT spouse is gone and cheeseless tunnels

These sorts of thoughts are a waste of time.

Assuming that she should have better moral standards because of her religion is a cheeseless tunnel.

Agreed! Though sometimes hard to get myself out of the instinctual response. I let myself think and feel it as it occurs...then toss it away as useless. Sometimes vent here just to let it out and then drop it. I've gotten better at it over time. There is so much more worthy of my time and energy than running down those tunnels.

During the initial stages of my separation, my ex wife would take the children on her weekend and sit in church singing and praying - while she was actively having an affair.

This was one of the things that surprised me the most in the last 18 months. Reading and learning on affairs and so on...that experts claimed no significant difference across various beliefs or value systems.

For me a related experience... In church the Pastor announcing communion "We are told not to take this unless your heart is right with God, if you are not, just sit it out this month. There is no judgement here," with W sitting next to me, drowning deep in her EA, saying, "I feel I'm right with God, but I won't take it because I don't want to be a stumbling block to others" seemingly referring to D19 and D17.

I think overall you handled the interaction very well.

Thank you for the feedback. It is difficult to see when in the middle of it.

The person you thought you knew doesn’t exist. Either never did, or is missing in action (likely for many years).

Set your expectations of her very, very low - it makes your life easier.

Based on conversations this last 18 months and debris I have been cleaning up in the home...I think MIA for 3 or 4 years now. I think her retirement from the military reserves on a low note ~ six years ago started the process.

Most of the time zero expectations is the norm now. A big assist from going dark/dim. As others have noted, going dark/dim turns out to be for me, to reset and center myself.

The only person whose thoughts and behaviours and morality you control - are yours!

An ongoing work to never end!

g

[grok]

feelings

I mean who did he think he was 2yrs ago saying ILYBINILWY...as if. Does H think that in the 32yrs of marriage I haven't had the same feelings? You know what you do you fight through those feelings cause they do pass.
Sorry I know that's random. From time to time I think abt things that were said and I think, As If. Certain things stick out the most,
...
I could go on and on but I won't bore y'all. I'm sure yall have heard similar things.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2950239#Post2950239

THIS and yes, I have heard similar things.

It ties in with quotes I posted from Zues126, from GK Chesterton, with the notion that Love not just feelings, or a verb, but is also a Choice.

on "OM/OW is a symptom"

guys who will go and blame the guys their gf/wife cheated on them with. Not realising the gf/wife is the problem not the enabler. The other guy was just there to pop their ego investment bubble.

However, their cognitive dissonance and the feelings for their gf/wife blind them.

The guy she cheated with was just the messenger.

Even if the guy was not in the picture the problem was already there, and she just needed a trigger.
... ...
Instead, you should thank the guy she cheated on you with because then you know who you are truly dealing with, not blame him.

Now you are free.

Lick the wounds your ego suffered, cut your losses from your misplaced investments and understand that the world is at it is not as you wish it to be.

I would say free to Stand or Leave or ?, seeing the world and spouse as it is, not as you wish it or him/her to be. The problems with ME and HER were already there. What you choose is about who YOU are. I did put this on Whatlee's thread but it follows here...

IMO standing is an essential part of the healing process of the LBS. You will constantly questions this throughout. At least I have up to this point.

You will ask yourself questions like "WTF am I doing this for this person?"

In the beginning we want answers.

...

Then you realize that this is part of YOU

What you have chosen is part of YOU and your character. So what began out of a search for answers for why and what is wrong with you. Out of hurt for what someone did to you...

You see it all has to do with who YOU are. The best part of who YOU are and then...

It is no longer about what THEY choose or why.

It is about YOU

Click the link, read the rest.
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2010045#Post2010045

Previous conversation coda

W inserted this anomaly, for her, into the conversation

"G, You know I would be OK with putting the kids into a school if they ever showed signs of interest. but they haven't. "

I said nothing but acknowledged her statement. This is the first thought of non-homeschooling expressed to me in over a decade. W was upset with me saying in mediation we should have a clause that lets us jointly consider schooling options on a yearly basis rather than legally locking in only homeschool.

Something for the LBS -

Lesser Loves
from Lamentations: Simple Songs of Lament and Hope
by Bifrost Arts

I was an orphan, but You called me "child"
I was a stranger; I was lost and defiled,
Redemption found me from up above
O how I had settled for lesser loves.

(refrain)
How can I thank you, Lord?
My broken heart, You have restored.
How can I thank you, Lord?
You give me grace I cannot afford.

g

[grok]

Well, It's been a week. I SEE you all.

I keep having half formed posts written in my head. and then real life means kids and GAL comes first. I did find in the old posts how people met outside the DB site. Minor bits of cleverness...making an account using the username here as a username in that social network ... book of faces. First or last name playing on DB. You can find me there.

Public/State school has started here, the roads are a mess, and schedules for activities have all changed. D17's gymnastics schedule changed to evenings now. S12 and D17 both have all day Tuesday home-school coop day now. Monday night activities are S12's scout like troop for a couple hours and then making lunch/school prep with D17 and S12 for the next day.

gratitude
Last night, after work, I got home and helped S12 finish making the mac-n-cheese that was on the stove. STBXW had just arrived to drop S12 off and started it. I made some "pigs-in-a-blanket" for when D17 and D19 got home. Then I went out to my now regular Tuesday trivia night at the pub ... taking a bowl of PiaB with me for my regular crew to snack on. Some got eaten and some did not, but I got smiles all around, which felt good. They asked where kids were this week (sometimes they stop by and join in for 30 minutes, for me to buy them sodas and sandwiches).

F, who I got to know first at the pub, asked me how I was doing and told me off to the side that he and his W, J, had discussed splitting. They hadn't so far...kids and all. My words to him were "you don't stay together for the kids...that is the wrong frame...you repair the broken bits in your relationship for the kids and yourself." He expressed compliments on how I was handling it and the kids.

At the end of trivia when we were saying goodbyes (We WON, $50 gift card), J, his wife, came over, gave me a hug, and said "we love you. we think you are doing an amazing job." I was not expecting that.

grief
After one of the rounds I picked up my phone and saw W had called twice, messaged, and D17 had called. Messages showed "can you pick D17 up?" "hello?" "never mind" "Ms. S is taking D17 home" I tried to call D17 since I was a 5-minute drive from her gymnastics.

she messaged back.

"mama forgot me"

"I have a ride home"

G, "hugs"

D17, hugs emoji

From the security cams I saw W stopped by home for 10 minutes right about when D17 got dropped off.

When I got home I asked D17 where her school tote was. It has what she needs to work on for the rest of the week.

D17, "I don't know dad. I think mama forgot to leave it. It must be in her car."
G, "OK. We'll figure it out tomorrow. It's time to walk the dogs and get ready for bed. Time to stop hitting your brother with pillows so he can get ready."

This morning I was out walking big dog at 0615 before sunrise. I see W's car zoom by...stop at the house...the doorbell sensor alerted on my phone...and a minute later she zooms back away. When I arrived home I see D17's school tote on the front porch. I guess D17 complained ... STBXW? ... I guess those emotions are putting plenty of pressure on her so she delivered before dawn without a word.

g

PS. Karma Fields. I had been trying to remember this artist. They stuck in my mind because of the interesting visuals generated from the music properties.

.me by Karma Fields
[Intro]
I'm just trying to figure myself out
Trying to pick up somehow

[Verse 1]
Parts of me
Pieces of memories
Feels like everything's moving
I don't know where it's going

Wish I could see the light in me
Where I should put my feet to move ahead
I'll go anywhere

[Bridge]
I'm just trying to figure myself out
Trying to figure myself out

[grok]

A few days ago from STBXW I received a lengthy text message with a screenshot of a medical bill text for D17. Summarized -

- image is supposed to be for D17
- I click and follow but it shows no account for D17
- I haven't gotten reminders for supposed bill for two months
- I'm sure it was paid by you or me or reimbursed
- I got this today
- I don't know if it is legitimate because
- THEY have been perpetrating money fraud to punish me for 16 months
- I tried D17's birth date and it said no account
- I tried S12's birth date and it said no account
- I refuse to call because people will say anything
- If you want, I can go in person
- I don't mind doing that in case it is real

Yes, she has always had a LOT of words. I had always found it endearing.

On the people "THEY" she thinks are persecuting her for the EA+? I don't know. I do know she spent $7,000 extra in the month before I took joint credit cards back. She spent ~$7,000+ on her own credit card before claiming fraud charges. She moved to a debit card and then claimed fraud/hacking a couple months later. The woman I knew before is very smart but inexperienced in finance/money.

I just replied, after 24 hours, "That sounds frustrating. I will take care of **medical company**"

I attempted to validate the feelings expressed between the lines and take on what is my responsibility. I STFU about anything else.

The medical insurance and payments for the kids are my responsibility. I paid the bill when I knew there was one. She took them in for some visits this year but I don't think she tracked anything.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Nicely done distilling down STBXW’s text to the medical/business matters that you should look into. Your 24 hour delayed response was succinctly to the point.

I agree, there is some emotions between the lines, as well as some baiting/fishing for you to latch onto. Good steering clear of all that.

It’s unfortunate Mom let slide picking up D17 from gymnastics. Sounds like Daughter took it in stride and simply found an alternate ride. It’s times like these when one realizes how much their children have grown, matured, and become responsible. Basically, how well they are healing. The same scenario a year ago would have triggered quite a less calm, taken in stride, result.

Hope you and your brood have a great weekend!

D

[grok]

Thanks DnJ. It has been a good weekend…though as you’ll see below not without LIFE. It turns out $450 was owed for the medical bill. W had put her email but my physical address. I asked for a paper copy to be sent to me so I can take care of it.

Well,…. Adventures good and bad continue! I continue to make my focus me and my children and our lives.

Hat tip to Clint Eastwood movies…

The Good

Just about all set for our trip to CA to visit my side of the family. We leave in 10 days. For two weeks. Pet care is pretty much all settled using several of D19 and D17’s friends. The dogs will be in a kennel though.

A bunch of the new pictures (selected by me D17 and D19) are up on the wall along with a gold framed mirror on clearance that D17 and I picked. Most of the pictures W had put up over the years are taken down. The decor is morphing into ours sans W.

The Bad

Saturday evening S12 pipes up and says “Dad, that doesn’t sound right”. I hear an intermittent screeeeeech sound out by the outside AC unit. UGH! $%^#&#$%^. Again?!

It sounded like the fan motor bearings going bad. The motor is too hot to touch. Off goes breaker. I swap the new fan blades for the old ones just to check … since the new ones seem to cause MORE vibration than the old damaged ones. Grrrrrr. Sure enough it is smoother and less vibrations but the screeeeeeching comes back intermittently and the motor is still HOT. I FaceTime my dad for a second opinion. He agrees with my diagnosis.

#$^#$%^$. I mean last month when I repaired the AC I had ordered a new motor but didn’t use it because it seemed to be working fine after a capacitor replacement and operating for a week. I just sent that new motor back. And now ordered it again! ($250) It will get here on Wednesday.

Problem is I leave Monday morning for a work trip to CA…the other side of the US. I’ll be back on Friday. I can’t leave a failing electric motor on while I’m not here. Off I run to Sam’s Club to buy a portable AC unit before they close. A 10,000 BTU unit to keep the downstairs below 78 F is costly ($450) but …. We do what we have to. …. I set it up idownstairs and the upstairs reaches 92F during the day. We sleep downstairs.

I’ve set up the kids for the coming week while I’m gone. We shopped for foods. To keep cool they will live and sleep mostly in the downstairs half of the house while I’m gone this week. W’s only remark was D17 and D19 are fine for the week.

The Ugly.

Little dog 2. Some weeks back one of the kids noticed a good sized lump on his behind that seemed to be an ugly color and be weeping. Uh Oh. As I was gone on business travel for the week, kids took a look at it and he got snappy. So W came by and scheduled a vet visit. The soonest was two weeks later. In the mean time I set up kenneling for our upcoming trip to CA. I discovered that W had dropped taking care of the doggies vet requirements. So, updated shots and preventative medicines for all the dogs before kenneling - $650. Little dog 2 diagnostic tests - $700.

As I was there to get all three dog shots taken care of I talked to the vet about little dog 2’s test results. Cancer. Decent sized lumps under the lymph nodes. It is time just for making sure he is comfortable for whatever remaining days are given. I kept thinking about how to talk to the kids about this. And Fear. And Dread.

Wait. What have I learned about Fear this last year and a half? What do I control?

When I got home D17 asked ”What did the doctor say?” She had been asking me for a week to talk to the vet. Moment of truth. I will just be Dad, the emotional rock they can rest on and count on. Tell them straight.

”Little dog 2 has cancer. It can’t be fixed. We will love on him for whatever days he has left.”

S12 burst into tears and left the room. But was back in a couple minutes. I answered their questions. I gave them hugs. They seemed sad but accepting.

the bill will come due
There will be a BIG bill coming due next fall when I have to pay off this past year and a half's extra expenses. ($15k?) I'm gaming the system a little putting it all on interest free credit cards for a year +. I am being safe though, I do have investments / emergency funds I can tap to pay it off if most of this isn't resolved by then.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Sorry about your pooch. The loving critters certainly are part of the family; it’s rough when they get sick / old. (((Hug)))

Telling the kids straight was/is best.

Love your wisdom regarding fear and dread, and that which you can control. Spot on.

Most of the pictures W had put up over the years are taken down. The decor is morphing into ours sans W.

Yep. Nice to see the kids’ input in creating the/their decor.

The AC motor, surprise medical bill, vet visits, a bit of financial stress for sure. You got it under control IMO, more just the timing of things. Do what you can, and don’t fret, it’ll all get there.

Nine days, and then you and the kids are off to CA for two weeks. Have a great time!

D

[MamaG]

Oh G, I've been saying that when it rains, it pours (also literally on-and-off pouring for weeks over here, lol). Reading through your update makes me realize my 'hard' Saturday was not so hard after all.

Yet, in your update, I found so much positive. And, great delivery in Clint Eastwood style.

You've redecorated. NICE! A fresh feel and update without W reminders.

Pet care is in place - kid friends come handy, and I'll bet they're excited to step up to the challenge.

Impressive that you found an AC for purchase mid-August! Where I live, they've been severely discounted for some time with few left on shelves - it was a HOT July here.

Thankfully, W is comfy with current state (smh):

W’s only remark was D17 and D19 are fine for the week.

The benefits of Grok2.0 to the rescue:

I will just be Dad, the emotional rock they can rest on and count on. Tell them straight.

I am so sorry to hear about your fur baby. If yours are like mine, they've been a bit of a lifeline since BD...well, since adoption really. Mine are two 12-year-old doggies and one of them is in the same predicament...taking him on Friday. Hoping for the best.

And, to close with another positive...

I'm gaming the system a little putting it all on interest free credit cards for a year +. I am being safe though, I do have investments / emergency funds I can tap to pay it off if most of this isn't resolved by then.

Using the noggin' to not tap investments when the option of interest free borrowing is available. Love it! The expenses don't get forgiven but at least you're capitalizing where you can.

Keep the positives flourishing. CA is a short couple weeks away - wishing you a great trip with the family.

[grok]

Thanks MamaG,

Reminders of the positive are appreciated. Even when I wrote them! I can have a hard time with seeing…when I get wrapped up with the hard bits.

(If you want to see, make an alternate anonymous account on that giant social media site that is a book of faces LOL and use MamaG as your name, something DB related as last name)

I’ve read Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce by Elizabeth Marquardt

And now I’m struggling to read Primal Loss: The Now-Adult Children of Divorce Speak by Leila Miller (A free PDF of her book is on her website)

Oh, not because I’m a poor reader (my 15 bookcases say otherwise) but because it hits so hard to KNOW my children will experience this. I must … to be able to see it in them and do what I can.

When my melancholy and awareness of destruction, across generations hits…. It is cold and dark.

So Cold - Breaking Benjamin

[Verse 2]
If you find your family, don't you cry
In this land of make-believe, dead and dry
You're so cold, but you feel alive
Lay your hand on me, one last time

[Chorus]
Show me how it ends, it's all right
Show me how defenseless you really are
Satisfied and empty inside
Well, that's all right
Let's give this another try

“The setting is the 19th century, and first depicts a preacher positioned by a swamp. The camera then moves to a large group of individuals walking through a forest. One of these people can be seen carrying a large stone with the Breaking Benjamin Celtic knot engraved on it. The man is being punished and tortured for the crime of infidelity and unfaithfulness towards his wife, chained to the stone throughout the video. When the video is almost over, the rest of the people finally arrive at the swamp where the preacher is located. The man carrying the stone willingly walks into the swamp and drowns to death. During the video's climax, the man's wife stands over the swamp he drowned in adorned in a black robe, and the other woman is adorned in a white robe.
(tldr: he’s chained to the stone so he can’t let go and he’s being executed for cheating on his wife)”

g

[grok]

On the airplane,
on the way home,
missing my children,
had a good week in southern CA working and socializing with workmates from HQ and around the nation.

I walked 8+ miles yesterday to work off some of the great food eaten while socializing. The axe throwing social event didn’t burn enough. And I did find trinkets for the kids to bring back. Little hand painted frog figurines that have a wobbley tung stick

I am pretty detached now but it still feels like there is a giant hole in my life. Like a limb is missing. The asymmetry in affairs is difficult…at least in the short term. The cheater is looking forward to their “wonderful” fantasy relationship thinking it makes things better. The LBS is looking at loss and hardship. This hits our notions of fairness right in the face.

STBXW is still focused on OM even though I don’t believe they meet in real life right now. Every now and then I see the behaviors where I know she thinks she is messaging him. I saw them while daily checking my security cameras to see how my children were doing without me at home.

My snooping many many months ago found messaging to the effect of “I’ll just go and pine away for you in my RV for years … waiting for you to resolve your situation”. … meaning dump his current wife. Last year I heard every rationalization that dumping his current wife had nothing to do with her romance with him. That was just between OM and current wife. Yeah, as if. Accountability kryptonite…

No, I wasn’t checking on STBXW. You see, on my last week long work trip she only showed up at the home for 3 or 4 hours in the evening each day. I check to see how long my children have been alone. I try to FaceTime the kids multiple times a day to make sure they don’t feel alone and that I’m still running the home.

Thankfully, W is comfy with current state (smh)

Despite what she said, this trip STBWX behaved a little different. She stayed in the home overnights and most of the daytimes. How much value that has?

I think more for S12. He knows the least about her choices. I don’t think he knows about OM. And has the most schoolwork to catch up on. He seemed kind of down a lot when I called him.

D17 was a bit testy about doing lots of chores, on her own initiative!, to keep the dishes done and things cleaned up. She complained that D19 just excused herself because she is soooo tired after work and S12 didn’t want to help out. The implied subtext is STBXW was NOT helping out with anything but the dogs.
G, ”D17, I’ll talk with S12 and D19. You did great, thank you. Don’t worry. I’ll fix things when I get home.”

D19 expressed ”mama is here to walk the dogs. I don’t know what everyone else is doing. They are all kind of just doing their own thing all week. They all stay up very late and keep me up.” The implied subtext is STBXW was NOT parenting or controlling the home. Just present.
G, “OK D19, I’ll be home Friday evening. We’ll have bedtimes and order.”.
D19, ”THANK GOODNESS”

Heh, even at 19, appreciating parental order and structure.

Primal Loss by Leila Miller
Forward

“In the Divorce Fantasy World, there are only two choices. Unhappy parents stay miserably married and fight for the rest of their lives, or they get divorced and everyone lives happily ever after. The idea that one or both parents should change their behavior doesn’t register as an option, nor does the idea that the divorce might seriously wound the kids.”

”Each parent is half of who the child is. When the parents reject each other, they are rejecting half of the child. They may tell the child, “We still love you; we just don’t love each other.” The child cannot make sense of this impossible contradiction.”

Between Two Worlds: The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce by Elizabeth Marquardt

How a child perceives parental differences in an intact family: (H <—> W) <—> (child).
The parents resolve the differences before it reaches the child..

How a child perceives parental differences in a divorced family: (H) <—> (child) <—> (W).
The child has to resolve the differences inside themselves.

g

[grok]

Well, never dull.

What I find
I arrived home on Friday to find W parked in the driveway…in the middle. I couldn’t pull in so I waited as she rushed back into the house and came out soon with what looked like a large laundry basket. And off she drove.

In I go to S12 and D17 as D19 is working a child watching side job. I give love to them. Check the portable AC is still fine. Check to see the AC fan motor came in. I’ll wait until the morning to work on it. I’m tired. And hungry. Although it looks like few dishes clean. The sink and counter are piled high. D17 said she did some but no one else for the five days I was gone….

Phew! What is the dog poop smell? I see little dog 2 run by and follow the smell to find a steaming pile on the carpet. Ugh…Did no one let the dogs out? And then I see seven more tiny piles of what look like dried diarrhea. On the carpet. I get paper towels and pick up the new pile.

G, ”S12, D17, what is going on here? Is this dog poop on the floor? “
D17, ”Yeah, little dog 2 was having trouble.”
G, ”Why didn’t anyone clean it up?”

No good answer was forthcoming and I wasn’t going to say anything negative about W to them. Dog poop left on the floor is its own statement. No dishes done is its own statement.

The day after

W comes by to take D17 to Saturday gymnastics at 8am. I notice a message later from W to our family group chat, ”Can someone get D17 from gym at 11? I’m busy today preparing for my craft fair market tomorrow.”. It’s not an emergency. I’ll discuss with D19 when she wakes up. Like we aren’t busy? I don’t reply.

Then, I’m tired still…but man up G, get the AC fixed. I go and remove the old fan motor…taking pictures of where the wires go. The connections are pretty dirty and stiff so I rummaged around and found a can of contact cleaner I’ve had for years. Now I go to put the new motor on and…. Ack. The four bolts don’t quite go into the holes!

Examining the issue I find the motor bolt pattern is about 1mm closer together than the holes in the support…. Hmmmm…. Practical solution is make the holes in the support a tiny bit bigger on the inside so they are effectively closer together. I need a round file and I can’t find one on my bench. I’ll have to run to the store to get one.

D19 replies in the group chat, “yes”. I tell her I have to run to the store over by D17 anyway and there is some confusion about 11 or 12 end times for D17’s gymnastics. The official hours are until 12. D19 suggests I go to the store now and swing by the gym in case it is an 11 pickup and I agree. I note she does NOT suggest calling W.

I go and pick up a bundle of small files then swing by the gym. Sure enough it was an 11 pickup. I give one of D17’s gym friends a ride home also. The gym’s AC failed the other day and the hours were reduced because of the heat.

Re-assembly of the AC fan unit is completed and it works! Hooray! No screeeeeching sounds. The new fan blades still seem a little less balanced than the old. I’m not concerned in the short run.

Now I get out the carpet spot cleaner and the wet vac and spent an hour cleaning all the dog poop up.

- Lunch -

D17, ” Dad, Dad, Dad, take us to the store. We need to get things for our trip!”.

So off we four went. Some clothes. Some activities for the plane ride. Misc stuff needed.

NOW I unpack and start loads of laundry. Start the children on all the deferred chores. Kids on their own start the packing process for a few hours.

The next morning

1am little dog 2 is barking. I go hush him.
1:30am little dog 2 is barking. I go hush him.
2am little dog 2 is barking. %^#%$^. He is staring at big dog. OH. Big dog threw up in his crate. I pull him out and pick up the throw up. I pick up the crate and wipe it down. I place the crate down in a different place because I’ll have to wet vac that area during the daytime. I put big dog back in crate and zzzzzz

7am go get big dog for morning walk….. OH, there is diarrhea in the crate on the floor. *sigh* Take the dog for a walk. Pick up crate and wipe it down. Get out wet vac for when everyone is awake. Make breakfast things. Get ready for church. Wet vac the floor in multiple locations.

…etc… I think we are mostly caught up. Now writing at midnight. Many things to say or reply to but when?

D19 just returned home from bowling with friends. She comes over and lays on the bed beside me watching reels. I need to send her to bed...LOL.

Grief, Gratitude, Grok, all in one
I was talking with S12 about some activities.

S12, ”Dad, are we going to do that one as a family, the four of us?”

D19, D17, S12 and I are Family. No mention of W.


g

[grok]

Wednesday on the way to CA
Routing on our trip to CA made a long day to get less expensive tickets. The second flight was IAD to SMF, a 5.5 hour leg. So, I’ll pull some thoughts while D19 is emoting unhappily next to me about how airplanes make her feel bad and I practice validation of feelings.

I have this whole series of thoughts that all somehow fit together. I’m not quite sure how to tie them and interlock them.

- Freedom in faith vs bondage in law from Galatians

- Anarchy vs vows/covenants from GK Chesterton.

- Chaos (feminine) vs Order (masculine) from MarriedRedpill and more

- Women who walk away vs good men from @thehappywifeschool on YouTube

- Victim vs Victim’s Mentality from Tony Evans

YouTube
I’ve been watching a bunch of YouTube videos lately on relationships and attraction. Mostly from recommendations here and a few that found linked to them. I’ve been learning a lot. Do I take it all at face value? No, but there is a lot of truth there.

@thehappywifeschool
@CaseyZander
@LFA
@bettercallgeorge924
@hoe_math and female reactions to his analysis
@FarfromEden
@itsmelanieking
etc…

Loss
@thehappywifeschool has a series talking to W. Teaching them about their own dark sides and nature. Where their unhappiness comes from. She has one addressed to LBH -When Your Wife Leaves You: Three Things Good Men Need to Know. I find her message lines up with DB concepts

- Accepting the Reality of the Situation - The existing R or M is GONE.

- Growth Through Adversity - If you do the work you will experience tremendous growth

- 1 Your Wife Leaving is a Loss - Accept it is a LOSS.

- 2 Your Wife Will Have Her Emotional Hooks in You - DETACH or be dragged. Let go.

- 3 Time to Find Yourself and Rebuild - In all the roles you have assumed over the years, who are YOU?

- Message for Women Who Are Leaving - Wherever you go, there you are with the same unhappiness. Leaving does NOT solve your problems. i.e. You are not the source of her unhappiness. Wherever she goes, she her unhappiness will be there (You didn’t break her, You can’t fix her)

Depression, despair and a victims mentality
Segments pulled from from Tony Evans': Encouragement that Calms Fears

Most of us know at least discouragement. Discouragement typically is related to a loss of something. You discourage because you lost your job.
…
You discourage because you lost your health. You discourage because the bills have climbed up and you've lost your financial freedom. But when discouragement continues and elongates itself, discouragement devolves into depression.
…
Depression is discouragement on steroids. It's discouragement that now has produced an ongoing level of gloom, an ongoing level of emotional pain. And when discouragement becomes depression, depression unresolved becomes despair.
…
And when depression becomes despair, that ongoing discouragement produces a sense of hopelessness. You see no way out. You see that there's gonna be no exit sign.
…
There's no way to get around this thing. There's no way to beat this thing. It will not go away.

So here we are (I was), the LBS. Discouraged > Depression > Despair.

And there is a need for a supernatural intervention into your emotional stability and wellbeing. That's our situation with Elijah. He's gonna find himself, what many of us have often found ourselves, in a black hole, because his whole world is gonna be turned upside down in a day.
…
A victim's mentality is a mindset that you adopt because of negative circumstances that says, I'm where I am because everybody else is where they are.
…
That's a victim's mentality. Now, you can be a victim, but you are to never adopt a victim's mentality where everybody else is responsible for where you are.
…
A victim's mentality is because of them, I'm here. And as long as you have that kind of mentality, you'll always be there. You may be a victim, but you are to never adopt the victim's mentality because then that allows you to put off being responsible to make the change you should make because they're not making the change they should make.”
…
There are some things in your life that are never ever gonna change. Those people are not gonna change, those kids not gonna change, that mate not gonna change, Jezebel's not gonna change, your boss not gonna change, the circumstances is not gonna change, but if you live for their change, you become their victim. And that's a victim's mentality.
….
It may not be right. It may not, it may be evil. So you may be a victim, but that's different than adopting the mindset of a victim.
…
If it wasn't for this situation, I wouldn't be here. Okay, that may be true, but they may never change. So what are you gonna do?

What are YOU (am I) going to do? Are you (am I) going to be responsible for making the changes you should make?

There is a LOT of good advice right here in this forum. Doesn’t make it easy. It doesn’t change the question.

What depression, discouragement, despair often brings is distorted information.
…
So Elijah is by himself, because depression gets worse if there's nobody in your life to change your thinking. See, if you're feeling sorry for yourself and you're talking to yourself, that's a bad conversation for yourself. You're already feeling sorry, and there's nobody to talk to but you, about you, regarding you, to tell you what you ought to do, and you aren't in a place to even hear you correctly, and what you are telling you is only related to how you feel, then your discussion with yourself is helping yourself to become worse off about you.

You need to be lifted out of your discouragement through honesty with God, through taking care of yourself physically in order to get the rest you need or the help you need, and to have somebody in your life who loves you
…
and you need to know from somebody who can see outside of you

Well, you are HERE (I am HERE). Take care of yourself. Talk to and Listen to those here outside of yourself.

Some things won’t change
If you live for their.change you become their victim
That is a victims mentality

Rediscovering who I am and who I want to be.

Want by Birdtalker

I don't want to have feet of stone
I want to follow this river of life where
It will have me go
I don't want to have feet of stone

I don't want to have a dagger tongue
I don't want my words to be a weapon
But a healing bond
I don't want to have a dagger tongue

I don't want to have a heavy mind
I don't want to hold these thoughts
That are chains of iron
I don't want to have a heavy mind

I want to have eyes of love
Count the beggar mans life precious life as my own
Offer my back for my brothers load
I want to have eyes of love

g

[Cadet]

Rediscovering who I am and who I want to be.

THIS is the hard thing to do - BUT it is what YOU must do!

Have faith that it will happen.

[grok]

Return day
Two weeks later and I’m back. Vacation time was good for the soul. Although I’ve been reading others stories on and off, I focused on being present in the moment with parents, sisters, niece and nephew, some old friends from high school I’d lost touch with, and assorted others. Trying mostly successfully to not let today, court day, be on my mind.

Out in CA, we ended up swimming, boating, and paddle boarding in seven (or 8 for D17 and D19) bodies of water. Lakes and rivers are all good to swim in unlike my home state. Time spent at 1000, 2000, and 6000 feet elevation. Stickers bought at a variety of visits to put on our water bottles.

Perhaps another time I’ll tell some stories. I can tell S12, D17, and D19 had a good time…because when we got home and finally in bed…I visited each one when they had tears an hour and a half later. ”Dad, I miss them!”.

Yesterday started at 0200 wake up for 0230 departure. (After the kids were up with cousins and their Nana until after 11pm). An hour drive to the airport, bag check in and wait for security to open up at 0400. Boarding at 0430 and 0500 departure. The flights still made D19 nauseous, but they all slept most of the flights. Small blessings. It was 4:30p on the east coast by the time we got home.

D19 and I went and picked up the dogs from the kennel and vet. Her eyes popped wide when she heard the bill. Three dogs for 13 nights plus treating big dog for an infection. I’ve been having a slow conversation with the children about how much pets actually cost to have….

Dropped them at home and off to the grocery store to get us through a few days. A rotisserie chicken and veggies and fruits and of course popsicles. Made some dinner. AND off to the brew pub for Trivia Night GAL! Friendly fun for two hours. Me time.

Then minor prep for D day. I review the court’s emails. I print a set of all the documents just in case. STBXW stops at the curb for goodnights. Interesting phrasing sometimes from her, “I am outside for whoever wants to come out.”

Court day
Up and cared for dogs, made basic breakfasts, got myself presentable, then helped D19 before she left for work with a tire mostly flat, slow leak, 10psi.

I departed for the court into standstill traffic outside our neighborhood. Curiously enough I see STBXW pass by in the traffic just before I pull out. Here we are going to court and we keep ending up side by side in traffic. She pulls in behind me after a while but I chose a different route then her. I find a space in a city parking garage. When I came back out later, I found she had parked four spaced down from me. Of all the many floors and hundreds of spaces. So many of our patterns remain so similar to each other.

I went and sat by her outside the courtroom and on the benches in the courtroom. I think I was successful at being calm, polite, non-hostile, busy with my own work. The Judge was very fast with us. Mediated and no lawyers and no outstanding disputes. STBXW did forget to mention child support was non-standard and mentioned to me after we walked out of the courtroom. I suggested she talk with the judge’s case manager. I walked away, busy with MY life, and didn’t follow her. We’ll see if this creates the final order or not. Don’t know.

Got a haircut/beard trip. Gassed up the truck and got slushies while there for D17 and S12 at home. Worked on health care three stage high deductible payments…to make sure I’m claiming all the right things. Living life. Not much thought about STBXW even today.

I was only knocked down feeling crushed I can’t breathe twice today. EA/PA and D is f*** evil.
g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

What a wonderful vacation. Family and friends; lakes and rivers; good for the soul indeed.

Yes, the cost of pets is rather eye opening.

It sounds like the court case went smoothly. Glad there were no surprises or hostilities.

It is perfectly normal for your emotions to rise and fall over the next while. The courtroom proceedings/decisions being another facet to be grieved. Once decree is in writing, is also another level to work through. You know the drill. You got this.

Have an awesome day grok! (And maybe a slushy. Another thing good for the soul. )

D

[grok]

a “death without a funeral”. There’s no grave or headstone. No eulogies are offered. No songs are sung, no memories shared. But there has been a death.

I am now divorced.

g

[MamaG]

G, I typed a response. Then I deleted it as I felt that it didn't add any value. I don't have enlightening information nor direction to provide. I guess what I'm saying is that I'm at a loss. Wish I could reach through this screen and make it all go away. You know...in true "I'm a fixer" style. LOL.

Know that you are cared for by friends you've touched with your updates.

Your update struck me. I felt your 'death without a funeral' like it was my own. And, out in this unpredictable world, a grown woman is crying.

{{{hugs}}}

[grok]

It's about how it feels

10:20pm Dogs walked and in bed. Last snacks for S12, "but I'm hungry, dad." S12 and D17 have lunches packed for tomorrow's homeschool coop. D19 at a friends for a sleepover. Lights almost all out.

D17 bounces down the stairs, "Dad! Dad! Does this look OK?!" She poses in loose ripped jeans, light brown woven belt, turquoise ribbed wide shouldered tank top. Skin colored bra strap pokes out from under on one side.

I pause and consider the ensemble. Is it OK for a homeschool coop? Tasteful, exposure minimal, colors coordinate and balance, her favored gold earrings will match.

"Yes D17, it is OK for tomorrow."

D17 rolls her eyes. "Yeah, Yeah, but is it CUTE?!"

Ah! After all my poking around this last year on the nature of female feelings and rules of attraction I understand instantly. (grok)

"Yes D17, it IS cute." For it is a cute outfit.

I've learned to rate and validate the cuteness or the level or "feels" clothes and other things bring to D17 and D19.

I have a variety of feelings (grief and gratitude) - that Dad is the one they come to and ask. I ponder - that girls use their father to measure future men in their lives. It feels weighty, and light weight at the same time.

g

[grok]

Wish I could reach through this screen and make it all go away. You know...in true "I'm a fixer" style. LOL.

Thanks MamaG. I think that is why all of us are here. Kindred spirits of a sort.

Know that you are cared for by friends you've touched with your updates.

This means a lot to me. As there is NO one but the readers who know this much of my story.

Your update struck me. I felt your 'death without a funeral' like it was my own. And, out in this unpredictable world, a grown woman is crying.

{{{hugs}}}

Death <> Divorce

a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one
Genesis 2:24, Matthew 19:5, Mark 10:8, Ephesians 5:31

It is a Death...to be torn apart to become two again, the one ... dies ... and the injury and hurt are VERY similar. And you start to understand ...

In my readings here I came across comparisons that hit hard. Here are two threads I can find right now. Worth reading. Keep tissues handy. Click the link.

If someone had asked me before I went through this which was worse… having your spouse leave you for another person or having them die, I would have chosen the latter, no doubt. I would have said that someone dying is so much worse than having them leave…and it is…for the person who died…because they don’t get to live anymore. But for the person left behind…not so much.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2945987&page=all

Losing a partner to cancer is different than the loss of a partner through Divorce. Similarly the same, yet totally the opposite. From my perspective, the difference being that one, (divorce), was a conscious decision that had been made, whereas losing a partner to death is NOT a decision. It is the total opposite of a decision. If anything can lesson the pain, it is that.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2936398&page=all

Waiting For The End - Linkin Park

Waiting for the end to come
Wishing I had strength to stand
This is not what I had planned
It's out of my control
Flying at the speed of light
Thoughts were spinning in my head
So many things were left unsaid
It's hard to let you go

(Oh) I know what it takes to move on
(Oh) I know how it feels to lie
(Oh) All I wanna do
Is trade this life for something new
Holding on to what I haven't got

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

(((Hugs)))

Death without a funeral
Grief seems to start anew

Pains feel innumerable
Feelings slide to blue

Time within this crucible
An emergence, a breakthrough

Something very beautiful
The discovery of you.




Continue moving forward my friend. You are doing a wonderful job.

D

[Mach1]

Grok....dude...

First off....this F'ing sukcs...

When I got my final papers, I had to get them notarized. So I stood with 3 people that I didn't know very well, so that they could witness the end of my marriage.

3 people that didn't know me, or her. Didn't know the joys and sadness, the trials and tribulations, the for richer or poorer, the sickness and health of our marriage....

And they watched it end with a click of a pen....

What it didn't do however, was to change my heart, my feelings or emotions, and it sure as heck didn't take away my memories of it.

With that click of the Bic, I had a million emotions wash across me in an instant, and I felt the sting from a thousand needles while a tear welled in my eye.....

Then it was gone. Or at least the intensity of it was gone.

That paper doesn't and won't define what your marriage was, and it sure as F won't define who YOU are....

Feel this, let it burn deep for a minute, then process it and let it go....

Your vows have nothing to do with your spouse, Ex-spouse, or even the legal side of a marriage....

Your vows belong to you ....




PS....I pinged you in the Alt.

Jus sayin

[Catman19]

Stay strong grok, i feel like im on the same boat as you. Its true, while a death is hard to process emotionally, losing a spouse youve spent your whole life together and built a partnership with, it is one of the most painful and devastating losses one can experience. Its a lingering pain, you that you know you will have to live with whether it be ever present or a nagging thought or emotion in the back of your sunconscious. I too like you am nearing the end of half a lifetime with someone. Even thinking about the final stroke of the pen can bring a sudden feeling of a loss of ones own self being. Just know that I am rooting for you and that you come out of the other side of this with your head held high and a sense of relief of an end to that chapter.

[Cadet]

a “death without a funeral”. There’s no grave or headstone. No eulogies are offered. No songs are sung, no memories shared. But there has been a death.

I am now divorced.

g

Have faith you will be reborn

Life will go on and all will be CUTE again

[dunnm]

You are the man
Embrace it (((hugs)))

[MrP]

Hi Grok, as Mama suggests, I'm not sure I've got the right words so will just say that you have a community here for continued support. Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death), do good things to care for yourself, and continue re-booting your individual life to the best extent possible. All the best, P.

[Cadet]

Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death)

I personally think it’s worse not second because in death you are sure there is no recovery whereas in this case you might think their is hope.

Of course there really is none which you have not yet figured out.

That is when true detachment occurs.

[Mach1]

Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death)

I personally think it’s worse not second because in death you are sure there is no recovery whereas in this case you might think their is hope.

That's because you've never gone through it....

: )


Grok....dude...

Too much isolation isn't a good thing...

You stay in one place too long, and you become that place...

Don't become or be defined by what you are going through. Rise above it all.



What's up ?

How are things ?

How are you doing ?

I've been waiting for the "Rise of Grok" thread....

[MrP]

Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death)

I personally think it’s worse not second because in death you are sure there is no recovery whereas in this case you might think there is hope.

That's because you've never gone through it....

: )

At Swarthmore U here in the U.S., students play "misery poker" (these are high achievers) to "compete" with who has it worse (in terms of workload, college life, etc.). I submit it is all relative to your personal stress tolerance. For some people, it is worse. For others, death of a spouse is worse. Either way, comparing "hands" (to continue the card game metaphor) isn't as good as a Rise of Grok thread so I'm also waiting for that!

Grok, you're doing all the natural things to cope: sitting with your feelings, grieving, sharing your feelings, and leaning on others (in this forum and likely in person with family and friends). As Mach suggests, the other coping work to do is to prioritize other things that bring YOU happiness that are within your control. As Cadet also suggests, "hope" related to a former spouse is a cheeseless tunnel in 99.9% of these situations. Some ICs recommend setting aside 30 minutes to an hour per day/week/month to grieve. The rest of the time is for rebuilding an improved self. What are you doing to keep that process moving along too? I hope to hear about 1-2 things in your next post. Take care, P.

[grok]

Thank you MamaG, DnJ, Mach1, Catman19, Cadet, dunnm, MrP,

Every one of your words help in multiple dimensions/facets of my life. I’ve read them every day as I check in, learn, … evolve. Yes I do take some time to read here every day. That part is easy to do at work LOL.

Lack of posting … well … life. Every time I try to post I end up spending an hour or so thinking and writing … learning what is in me as I write and figure out what I want to say. Even three older kids soaks up all my minutes. I’ve had a long post worth of thoughts I could put down here every single day. Posting ends up at 11p like today.

Too much isolation isn't a good thing...

You stay in one place too long, and you become that place…

I’m not isolating or sending still. Not curled into my shell to cope. No. More like solidifying the current daily routines that work well for me/us and feeling around me for what feels right to be next.

What's up ?

How are things ?

How are you doing ?

Events/stories since last Tuesday include D19 taking S12 to update his clothes as he is growing fast. They also picked out shirts for me! D17 and I going shopping to Marshals to find the last pieces to finish the wall over the piano (decorations and pictures, see my Alt for photos). Working with D17 on HS physics and college Algebra. All three kids coming down with variations of some kind of illness going around (throat, ears, coughing, sniffles, and mild fever). S12’s scout like troop meeting. Groceries, cooking/cleaning, wet vacuuming (ill little dog is peeing on the floor sometimes now). Trivia night at the local brewery. Dermatology (skin cancer checkup) and since I met the deductible this year I had extra moles taken off. Tooth cavity filled and arranged for needed kids appointments that had been forgotten by XW. D19 and D17 had needed fillings since March apparently. The remaining Angora rabbit of XW’s died (she had stopped taking care of it). Regular work every day at my job also. There is more, I’m too tired to remember it all.

And just now at 11:15p S12 comes in to lay down next to me because he can’t sleep.

Oh, and D17 asked me to take her to a Benson Boone concert 3 hrs north of us. (Huh. Not asking Mom). I said yes. I’ll figure it out.

And today/tomorrow extra time to storm prep. Although I’m by the coast, I’m not worried about hurricane Helene. I do take preparations for power and water outages though. The high tide flood surge + rain from the feeder bands can wreak some local havoc.

And now falling asleep typing on the laptop in my bed. I am crashed out for the night. {{{hugs}}} and {{fist bump}} liberally distributed to you all.

Zzzz

g

[Cadet]

Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death)

I personally think it’s worse not second because in death you are sure there is no recovery whereas in this case you might think their is hope.

That's because you've never gone through it....

: )

Thats true and undetermined whether I ever will.

You are the expert on that subject.

Now back to Grok since this is his thread.

I guess I will join the line waiting for

“The rise of Grok”

[grok]

Now back to Grok since this is his thread.

I guess I will join the line waiting for

“The rise of Grok”

Well, since this is my thread, I'll say I welcome digression. Too narrowly focused makes me a dull boy. And illumination of the topics at hand will often come from the interconnectedness to the rest of life.

Heh, I think the "Rise of Grok" is brewing ... but still shifting, examining those fleeting thoughts and feelings that pop in and out. Lots more WTF and shrugs when she messages things without feeling a need to do anything.

And I think I'll have to work through all the financial division operations over the next 30 days before I'll feel settled into the rise.

Oh, and I still have 1/3 of the garage and a 10 X 20 foot space in the house with her stuff not yet taken. Hmmm... In the theme of OYS (Own Your S...), it is still there I choose it to be. I contemplated putting it on a pallet and dropping it off on OM's front porch. Because that was evil me and funny.

g

[Mach1]

Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death)

I personally think it’s worse not second because in death you are sure there is no recovery whereas in this case you might think there is hope.

That's because you've never gone through it....

: )

At Swarthmore U here in the U.S., students play "misery poker" (these are high achievers) to "compete" with who has it worse (in terms of workload, college life, etc.). I submit it is all relative to your personal stress tolerance. For some people, it is worse. For others, death of a spouse is worse. Either way, comparing "hands" (to continue the card game metaphor) isn't as good as a Rise of Grok thread so I'm also waiting for that!

P ,

I just like to get under Cadet's skin a little.

I've been frustrating him since his first thread here.

And I'm not gonna lay out my thoughts on the subject again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grok !!!!


I talked to my peeps about an hour north of you last night. And as you say, the flooding is the biggest concern for them.

I'm glad that you are staying busy with things. I just don't want you to "hide" in things and delay processing the emotions that go along with everything the past couple weeks.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cadet.....sigh....

You are correct that I have experience in that area. And just like all of the years proceeding the latest, I certainly didn't want to be an "expert" in DBing OR being a Widower.

Truth is, out of all of the long term married couples out there, 50% of them will experience this.

Oh, and I still have 1/3 of the garage and a 10 X 20 foot space in the house with her stuff not yet taken. Hmmm... In the theme of OYS (Own Your S...), it is still there I choose it to be. I contemplated putting it on a pallet and dropping it off on OM's front porch. Because that was evil me and funny.

Maybe you could use that space to hang all of your Benson Boone apparel now ? : )

I dunno know G, Take some time and let it rest. I was just literally going through this scenario with a friend last week. What to do with a wayward spouse's stuff that was left in the carnage. I was thinking about the two extremes of just living with it, or packing it up and sending it. So maybe think about a middle ground with it that you can live with.

For now though...

Hunker down and stay dry my friend.

[Cadet]

I just like to get under Cadet's skin a little.

I've been frustrating him since his first thread here.

TRUE - and Mach has definitely been here longer than me - although I am older.

Cadet.....sigh....

You are correct that I have experience in that area. And just like all of the years proceeding the latest, I certainly didn't want to be an "expert" in DBing OR being a Widower.

Truth is, out of all of the long term married couples out there, 50% of them will experience this.

Unfortunately that is true for both of the things that you are now an expert on.
Since we are on DB - we will stick to that topic.
Also I have no expertise on the latter.


Now cleaning garages I do know something about that and having older kids and ex-spouses leaving stuff in your house.
At some point you have a boundary that it has to go (or you just need the space) and then the decision is easy.

[Catman19]

May i just suggest a small piece of advice - clear your life of any belongings related to her, even your wedding ring, these material things will serve as nothing but reminders and are no longer of any positive sentimental value. If you decide to keep anything let it be things that are related to the kids and let them have it, for me cleansing myself of all the marital items was a decision im glad i made, these items become obstacles on your healing journey and path. Think of it as closing a book of your life and prepare yourself to start writing the beginning of the second edition of your life. I know this is cliche and it felt as such even when my therapist regularly said this, but the new positive memories will come when you are ready for them, and remember there will come a day when you will have an authentic and genuine smile on your face, then you will know you are on the right path.

[grok]

So much to reply to! but in the mean time, for thought, a post I read the other week.

The loyalty and respect that a man desires is not just for his woman to not cheat on him. This is the bare minimum.

Loyalty and respect for a man means you will stand by him during the most difficult periods of his life. When he feels like the world is against him, he can see that you are behind him, and believe in him when he has not made it, whatever "making it" means by his definition.

Men are humans too, they too are figuring out their map of life and are trying to forge a path that belongs to just them. This journey will take a man to the highest of highs and the deepest of all psychological lows. The battle is not just against external forces, but against his demons within. He will have moments where he will question everything.

Most women will see this as a sign of weakness and will be advised by other women to bail or leave. I believe this is where true bonding occurs. He can see that you are loyal and respect his abilities when he has nothing but himself to offer. This is when he will see you as a true teammate in life, fighting against a common enemy. Biologically, this is where true vasopressin bonding occurs.

Yes, while I was down and depressed and withdrawn, she was advised by her divorce' friends to leave. And so she has. They were not as sure about the EA. I noted internally she said nothing about them rejecting an EA as wrong.

She once stomped her foot and said, "G, how long was I suppose to wait?"

I drank the STFU smoothied and thought, "what is this waiting business? You don't just wait. You make every effort possible You get advice and help from old married couples not just divorcee' friends, religious leaders, spouses friends, IC and MC sessions, and on... 
"

The fact that she did not has had me questioning a lot of things. Alternatively, in compassion, maybe her own internal lows and demons within prevented her from taking the needed steps.

The "burden" many women feel during this phase, is similar to how men think about taking on women when things are going right. Many women will bail on a man when he is not performing financially. This is why the love of most women is conditional. Most men know this.

The men who are willing to conquer their failures repeatedly are the men with true intrinsic courage. If he is a man with integrity, he will remain with you, not because he does not have access to other women, but because of his genuine love and sense of duty to you.

All men know that they will be desired once they have achieved a certain level of financial success or status. They also know that these women are only loyal to and respect their achievements and not them personally.

Choose wisely and love well.

Reasons why I chose to stand? There is one right there.

g

[grok]

All the thoughts Pt 1

Death without a funeral
Grief seems to start anew

Pains feel innumerable
Feelings slide to blue

Time within this crucible
An emergence, a breakthrough

Something very beautiful
The discovery of you.

An amazingly short encapsulation of the entire year+ process. Every time I read it I cycle though all the stages in about a minute. If you’ve been through it you know.

And like all good poetry, it reaches into our experiences and feelings to pull out meaning FAR beyond the words themselves.

3 people that didn't know me, or her. Didn't know the joys and sadness, the trials and tribulations, the for richer or poorer, the sickness and health of our marriage....

And they watched it end with a click of a pen….

Sitting in that courtroom for less than 10 minutes, her in the petitioner desk and me at the defendant, the judge chipper and smiles, ~10 people in the rows behind us awaiting their turn, and only a few short questions directed at her and the quiet unconfident answers despite herself, resulted in a simple email with a PDF attached. “Dissolved”. No one in the state process knows or cares about the rich tapestry of 25 years together.

What it didn't do however, was to change my heart, my feelings or emotions, and it sure as heck didn't take away my memories of it.

With that click of the Bic, I had a million emotions wash across me in an instant, and I felt the sting from a thousand needles while a tear welled in my eye.....

Then it was gone. Or at least the intensity of it was gone.

I found that nothing she did or said changed my heart or mind or choices along the way. They were all my own. I didn’t know this would be true at the start.

Resulting emotions? It comes and goes in slow, occasional waves now. Not nearly the intensity. I let it flow and go. Paraphrasing the Bene Gesserit saying from Dune,

I will face my feelings. I will permit them to pass over me and through me. And when they have gone past I will turn the inner eye to see their path. Where the feelings have gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

That paper doesn't and won't define what your marriage was, and it sure as F won't define who YOU are....

Feel this, let it burn deep for a minute, then process it and let it go....

Your vows have nothing to do with your spouse, Ex-spouse, or even the legal side of a marriage....

Your vows belong to you ….

And it takes a while to internalize long after you see the intellectual truth. … and right now that paper represents a pile of work to separate and divide up the accounts as agreed in the next ~30 days. Sigh. I had better do it myself if I want it quick and right.

The vows? I still think of mine periodically. I haven’t looked at hers in about a year. I don’t think I care to. Paraphrasing DnJ reminders, leave that to God to adjudicate.

PS....I pinged you in the Alt.

Jus sayin

Thanks for that BTW. Feels like the checking in with each other after the hurricane down here. I put pics on that account too.

g

[Cadet]

Feels like the checking in with each other after the hurricane down here.

Hope all is well looks like that season is here.

You know the most important thing from your marriage you still have, three living breathing amazing humans.

Keep enjoying them throughout the years to come.
They will bring you much joy.

[grok]

Interlude, What do they see?

These three living breathing amazing humans

A week ago? While XW's last angora rabbit was still alive I was trying to provide some care. It lived on the back porch and before bed each night I made sure it had food and water. Since she was in the home often I left it to her to do all the other care. Just like the first one though, I came back from a week away for work and found it living in and covered with it's own poop and pee and fleas. It was unable to stand anymore. XW had promised many times over the past year to take it to her place as she had plans…
…
I heard D17 and D19 discussing. ”You tell momma she has to take it or give it to someone.” “Why do I have to always be the one?” “She listens to you sometimes.” “It’s her business, not mine.” “But I can’t! She doesn’t listen. “
…
D17 sadly, ”Dad, I told momma it needed a rescue place and she said she’d look for one.”
…
I took it into the back yard and hosed it off. I got most of the filth off. It was very skinny with patches of bare skin. It couldn’t stand. I put food and water where it could reach without walking around.
…
D17, ”Dad, I don’t think the bunny will make it. It will be just like the other one.”
G, softly, ”I know D17…. You are right. ….. “

And I stood there by the back porch with a tightness in my chest and tears in my eyes. Not just for a rabbit. But for all this represented … how we got to this point. The subtle low level chaos destruction death.

She could see it in me. She came over and gave me a hug as tight as she could with 17 year old gymnast muscles.

D17, softly, ”Dad, we know you are doing the very best you can.”


g


Afterward

The next morning it was dead.

D17, ”Dad, you tell momma OK? I don’t want to. Don’t be … mean OK?”

(The kids had said when the previous rabbit died she didn’t handle it well, going out to her van, crying and beating herself up over letting it die, for she did. I had said nothing and kept to STFU smoothies)

G, ”OK D17. I will. In this and other things I … … just stick to the facts and leave it at that. Anything else is up to her.”

D17 nods.



Sad news to relay today. Your rabbit died.

I thought she was near to it. Thank you for letting me know. I will take of her when I come by in the morning.

I took care of it.

Okay. Thank you.

[DnJ]

Sorry G.

You did right letting XW know about the bunny. Just the facts is a good/wise choice.

D

[grok]

The little funny things

They will bring you much joy.

S12, D17, and I are watching Lord of the Rings - Fellowship of the Ring tonight. D19 is out with a friend.

I tried making Carmel coated popcorn twice but it didn’t work. The sugar melted and burned in the pan each time. D17 made pumpkin pies with a little help, put whip cream on it, and served it to us as we began.

D17, ”Ugh, this doesn’t taste right. It’s not sweet at all.”

G, ”Um, did you add the sugar?”

D17, ” Shut up! Shut up! You were supposed to be helping me. It’s your fault! It’s NOT funny! Stop laughing!”

S12 and I are laughing. It takes a few minutes but she eventually laughs too. We put spoonfuls of sugar over the top and it tastes fine.

Where are their hearts…

Half an hour into the movie, XW shows up and messages the kids for goodnights 2 hours early at 730p. She didn’t show up last night. I assume she messaged the kids. I believe she indicated the next 20 weekends or so she has craft fairs to sell at with her booth.

S12 with some annoyance, ”What is she doing here now? It’s way too early?”
D17 reluctantly and thinking, ”Come on S12, … … We’ll say good night and then we can come back in and finish the movie””

D17 came back in 5 minutes later saying S12 will be in right behind. S12 came in with XW as she needs restroom stops. OK, sure, normal human kindness. S12 seems disturbed and to want her to stay. He was always a bit of a momma’s boy. This split and her substantial absence has caused him sleep issues and more. She says no, I have to go, you’ll be sad to miss the movie, and out she goes with a back and forth of “I love you more.”

We return to the movie.

g

[grok]

All the thoughts p2

Stay strong grok, i feel like im on the same boat as you. Its true, while a death is hard to process emotionally, losing a spouse you've spent your whole life together and built a partnership with, it is one of the most painful and devastating losses one can experience.

Most of my adult life for sure...Met in 1998 on my first military assignment. To me it always seemed to be it was by the hand of God. For those who don’t know, much of the US military has an unofficial tradition of assigning a peer to new incoming personnel as their “sponsor.”

That day I heard the duty officer asking around “where is LT X? He’s the designated one for any incoming this week. We have a newbie at the gate. “ “Sir, he got called out for site Y’s issues. He won’t be back for like 16 hours “ “Well s*** @:&$;”

Also traditional, whoever is within arms reach of the person doing the assigning is going to get the duty.... Smart youngins try to be out of sight... I wasn't as smart at the time.

"Hey G! Drop what you have going and go get the new LT at the gate. You know the drill." This includes all the paperwork for various departments, helping set up appointments to meet various levels of command, organizational overview and introductions, AND you are expected to be the social facilitator to all the peers and their various social activities.

I go to the gate and realize the newbie is female. I like her shape 🙂. And over that day realized we have a lot in common. Huh...I'm expected to be her social coordinator for a while ... Built in dates ? I took her to first hang out with my friends...a married pair of LTs who in time were our best man and maid of honor.

It’s a lingering pain, you that you know you will have to live with whether it be ever present or a nagging thought or emotion in the back of your subconscious.

It sits there in the dark. Inside. Her sun become a tiny black hole. Originally threatening to consume me. Now it is still there, muted and isolated from the rest of me... I chose to grow faster than it could consume. To detach and not provide it with anything to consume and grow. Perhaps it will extinguish one day as I process it bit by bit. Perhaps it will be there but not matter with a full and joy filled life.

I too like you am nearing the end of half a lifetime with someone. Even thinking about the final stroke of the pen can bring a sudden feeling of a loss of ones own self being. Just know that I am rooting for you and that you come out of the other side of this with your head held high and a sense of relief of an end to that chapter.

I GET it. You give of yourself to become ONE. The death of that ONE is a form of loss of ones own self being. The discussion of co-dependance and self differentiation in marriage is put aside for another day.

There has been some form/sense of relief with the final signature. Still the actual asset division to finish. Lingering threads...

Have faith you will be reborn

Life will go on and all will be CUTE again

I have FAITH! And absorbed wisdom here ... There are no shortcuts. It will take the time it takes. Doing the work.

You are the man

Embrace it (((hugs)))

I take the meaning to heart. I didn't ask for this. I didn't want this. I, the MAN, am here though. I will embrance and own who and where I am.

Hi Grok, as Mama suggests, I'm not sure I've got the right words so will just say that you have a community here for continued support. Take time to mourn the loss (some say it can be second only to experiencing a death), do good things to care for yourself, and continue re-booting your individual life to the best extent possible. All the best, P.

Thanks MrP, I'm still working on balancing work, care for self, and time for the kids. I think this will be a continuous process 🙂 Feeling the loss...well... I let myself feel each day as I encounter parts where I would have had a wife to be part of it.

I personally think it’s worse not second because in death you are sure there is no recovery whereas in this case you might think their is hope.

Of course there really is none which you have not yet figured out.

That is when true detachment occurs.

A side observation on hope and detachment. One thing snooping did accelerate for me was detaching. Because it removed hope. I could SEE her pledging herself to OM. It was True Love (TM). They were Twin Flames (TM). And many other 14 year old girl SQUEEEEE. From wisdom here and elsewhere...Limerence + PEA addiction meant that from some nebulous future NC it would be at least 18 months to go back to neutral. And still have to go through the stages of both the loss of marriage and loss of OM.



g

[grok]

As I mentioned before, XW has been sending me back each alimony payment and asked for it to be applied to the outstanding debt on her van. Debt that I had accepted as part of a 50/50 asset split.

I received the following yesterday:

"I would like to ask for a pause on paying it back during November and December for birthday and Christmas expenses. If I don’t use it I will pay it back to you with January’s installment.

I haven't replied yet. The phrasing as a request confuses me. It is hers by our agreement. To do with whatever she wants. There is no obligation to send it back to me. I have no expectations for it each month.

Is this a female style communication that I don't understand?

It doesn't bother me. I constructed several replies... None seemed quite right. Mabe just "OK"

g

[MamaG]

Hi G! Hope you fared well with the hurricane.

If you feel like you need to acknowledge/respond, how about simply liking the message? No words. No emojis.

MG

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Ensure to continue sending the alimony payments. You need a continuous paper trail.

As for her returning payments to offset/payback a debt she feels she owes on her van, that’s fine. Just like her requesting to hold back the next two months worth, that’s fine as well.

I’d answer her request regarding holding back November’s and December’s van payments with “No problem. Thanks for letting me know.”

True, she does not have to pay back the debt. I believe you mentioned that to her already. Yet, she feels she wants to. As said, that’s fine. For some reason paying back that debt is important to her.

D

[grok]

Thanks MamaG and DnJ,

I just went with "OK, thanks for letting me know"

Slowly learning ways to validate emotions or, in this case, acknowledge, without approval or disapproval of the underlying choices or actions.

We fared quite well with the hurricane, thanks for asking. Only little branches and leaves down. Our little subdivision is built on 8+ feet of fill above the original ground level. ~11 feet over sea level. There is a very narrow corridor a hurricane would have to travel to push flood surge to my home. Every other path means only wind danger.

Others I know in the towns around were flooded. D19's friend had their house flood with 1+ feet of water inside. Of course they live on the bay, ~4 feet over sea level, in a subdivision where everyone has a boat dock at their house!

Yesterday I set my playlist to random from all the albums on my Plex server (FYI my own media server) and got to introduce Blue Rodeo, a Canadian country rock band, to D17.

Hasn’t Hit Me Yet by Blue Rodeo from Five Days in July

Never thought this could happen
But somehow the feeling's gone
You got sick of the pattern
And I got lost in this song

Hey, hey, I guess it hasn't hit me yet
I fell through this crack and I kinda lost my head
I stand transfixed before this streetlight
Watching the snow fall on this cold December night

g

[Caligirl]

I think your response was spot on . Validating or acknowledging while keeping your emotions out of them takes time to learn how to perfect.

[grok]

Thanks Caligirl. Sometimes, IRL, I feel I can be too short and come across as brusque.

In other news, I’ve been busy getting ready to ride out Milton. Depending on where it goes I could get just some rain or water up over my doorstep. Our little subdivision was built on eight feet of fill…putting the foundations at 11+ feet over sea level. Normally this should be solid. I’m considering sealing plastic sheeting around outside entrances. I’ve done this before, though it is a real pain to remove the glue/foam I used to attach it.

Asking for prayers or requests to your higher power of choice for All of us down here facing the storm.

D19, S12, and I spent the afternoon/evening picking up the outside for anything that could blow around in 100mph plus winds….which means most everything. Into the garage or heavy things flat on the little enclosed back porch. Given that it had years of being a playground and amateur garden area, there was a lot of stuff to go through. The freezer in the garage went on top of a workbench. Considering where we could park D19’s car at a higher elevation in town.

I’ve been watching the Lord of the Rings movies with D17 this last week. The experiences of the last 18 months left the deeper themes piercing my heart. Looking at my three here with me and the worst fears of every parent, D17 saw my tears and hugged my tight.

King Théoden buries his son

“No parent should have to bury their child.”

Éowyn his cousin sings a Lament for Théodred

…
An evil death has set forth the noble warrior
A song shall sing the sorrowing minstrels of Meduseld
That noble cousin, who always held me dear
Now is held in darkness, enclosed.

D17 brought up and we talked along the way about how each character dealt with the temptation of the One Ring which had the power to make their desires come true, but at the cost of their soul. To pass the test each had to have strength of character and give up desires to be able to do what was right.

I thought of my XW and OM. As far as I can tell from what I’ve seen last month, she still plans on waiting for him to boot his W in favor of her someday. Temptation and Test.

Always appropriate for thinking about hard times.

Frodo: I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.


Gandalf: So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.”

g

[Cadet]

So hurricane #2 Milton has now passed, are you OK?
I think this was very close to you.

Waiting for this check in.

[grok]

Quick check in.

Home OK with kids.

Animals retrieved from friends.

No power since 11:30p last night, here or overnight location.

Trees down all over, taking down power lines and blocking roads.

Florida is warm and humid without AC. Duh.

Kids crashed out after helping overnight host and her neighbors clear debris all morning.

Stories later. Phone at 6%.

g

[MamaG]

Everyone is accounted for and in good standing - that news will suffice until your phone can charge. Happy to hear.

[Cadet]

Quick check in.

Home OK with kids.

Animals retrieved from friends.

No power since 11:30p last night, here or overnight location.

Trees down all over, taking down power lines and blocking roads.

Florida is warm and humid without AC. Duh.

Kids crashed out after helping overnight host and her neighbors clear debris all morning.

Stories later. Phone at 6%.

g

Thanks for checking in.

Hope you get power soon

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Glad you and your’s are safe and well. Hope power is restored soon, I suspect crews will be very busy.

D

[grok]

Quick check in #2
(working on a long post)

Still no power. Charge devices in the car once a day.

Company giving us up to 24 hours of disaster leave with pay.

Children are restless...LOL. Modern kids and all... every half hour S12, "Dad, when is the power coming back?"

Glad I stuffed so many gallon jugs of water in the freezers. Fridge acts like a camp cooler with two frozen gallon jugs in it. Freezer has thawed but is still very cold. Chest freezer in the garage...the frozen water jugs are still frozen but the food is just over freezing temps.

Working on cooking thawed goods on the camp stove to waste as little as possible.

Only two gas stations in the local area are up. Lines are well over a mile. I heard of a four plus hour wait. I'm conserving with 1/2 tank left.

D19 went to play pickle ball with friends today and D17 volunteered at her gym to clear debris.

g

[grok]

Timestamp: wee hours of the morning

Power is back on.

D19 sleeping soundly with every light in her bedroom on!
D17 wakes when I tiptoe in her bedroom to close the windows!
S12 zzzzzzz

That is all.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

Glad the power is back on. Ah, air conditioning, refrigeration, lights, water, and so on.

D

[Caligirl]

Grok

Glad to hear the powers back on . Get cooking for those kids . Keep checking in .

[grok]

Grok

Glad to hear the powers back on . Get cooking for those kids . Keep checking in .

Yeah, a camp stove works...but thawed frozen spring rolls and french fries and chicken breasts and so on aren't quite the same. Tacos and pancakes worked well thought

Oven, microwave, air fryer, stove, insta-pot, ... make rice, Mac-n-Cheese, green beans, croissants (from a can), and so on much easier. Coffee too!

Kids grumbling about how much extra dishwashing needed in cold water...but now the dishwasher works and water is hot. I just laugh in Gen X.

g

[grok]

Well! This has been quite the week! My Milton story… in parts.

BLUF: We are all safe, only minor damage to property. No power Wed 11:30p - Sun 5:30a. Fuel not available or difficult until this Mon. evening. Early there was only two stations with lines more than a mile long each. Water is still on.

I’ve been through plan, prepare, execute, recover with crises and disasters before. I know how to do this and I think came through very well. I have my little list from my own personal After Action Review (AAR) of things I could do better in the future. Still, came through with only discomfort ongoing. Nothing serious.

Monday:

Some telework done for most of the day. Making sure I have food and water for a week if needed. Camp stove has enough fuel. Flashlights and batteries. Get all laundry done for…once the power goes out.

I’m watching the storm track for consistent trends. I follow a lot of partially processed data and models. And a couple of weather folks I feel play it straight. I check my analysis and start to set my thresholds on what I am comfortable with. I plan on riding it out at my house unless they are passed. I am in an evacuation zone A, but those general purpose zones do not take into account any local features specific to my home. i.e. built on fill to raise the foundation to 11.5ft over sea level, dense trees behind up to our roof level, and houses on either side just 10 feet away. This provide substantial protection from wind and flooding.

XW Messages

”Let’s swap. L’s mom has a master bedroom which is too much for one me. You and the kids go there and I will stay with the animals because I have acquired a cat from a friend who is out of town and MirBay is likely to be slammed. I am going to get the cat after I fill the car. Milton is a beast. The house should be fine. The kids will feel safer with you and the animals will feel safer with me.”

”Fill the car at my RV. I have a full tank of gas. “

”May I drop a small stash of electronics and kids papers at the house?”

I didn’t message back. I let it sit first.

She comes by in the evening before I reply and asks to stash some things. I say sure.

I don’t answer the first part about her staying in my home as she didn’t ask while here. It feels like other reasons are behind it…maybe she obligated herself to care for the cat and now has no place for it. I’ll leave with my kids if I determine it unsafe and I’ll stay if I determine it to be safe.

g

[grok]

Tuesday:

Cleanup
Kids and I pick up the outside to prevent yard missiles from being generated. 100+ mph winds can throw a lot of things…. OOooof that was a lot of stuff. The little back yard has been turned into chicken and amateur garden areas and had many years of stuff laying around. Table and bench layed flat on the porch. Potted plants put on top. Made space in the garage for all the supplies and equipment. Hoses taken off. Filled the trash can with old stuff I’m not keeping.

D19 SHRIEKS! ”Dad! Dad! I think I squished a mouse!”
G, “What?! What are you talking about D19?”

There had been some mice I was trying to get rid of from our porch. They had been hiding in a pile of posts. Earlier I had moved the posts since D19 didn’t want to come near a mouse and I saw one scurry away.

D19 excitedly, “I was trying to move this and I saw it and got scared and dropped it and I think it landed on it!” It being a bale of peat moss that was soaking wet and pretty heavy.

Sure enough, when I later moved the bale the next day, there was a flat mouse. She did squish it!

Prep cont
We stock the freezers with 10+ gallons of water to freeze. We fill all the water containers we have in case water service goes out. We have toilet paper and shovel available for digging a pit toilet if necessary.

After checking the latest Milton data, I decide it is still likely to be OK riding out the storm at home so long as trends continue away from us. There is still a lot of uncertainty though and it bothers me. I will check tomorrow’s 5am and 11am data sets. If the trend continues away then we are OK. If it doesn’t then we should leave. I’m looking for consistent trends of a Cat 3 before it hits land and consistent movement south of our location.

XW Messages in the evening

She sends a screenshot of her reply to my mom (who inquired after her safety). She replies to my mom: that she has a place to go, it has room for me and kids, she can take pets and simply drive north.

”L’s mom has two rooms.  If you change your mind I can empty my trunk somewhere and haul pets north east.  It’s tracking further south but still likely to be nasty. “ 

”I can’t take the chickens but I can take the dogs and bunny and birds if I know enough in advance.

An hour and a half later I reply. “Thank you for the offer. I will keep it as an option if I decide it is the better choice to leave. “

I try to validate and thank the genuine offer … but not respond to underlying currents seemingly attempting to influence my choices for her own reasons.

g

[grok]

Wednesday:

Crunch time

I’m up for the 5am update which shows the storm staying on last nights course and strength. Hum….. Not consistent movement south like I wanted. We are still in the cone. I am tempted to modify my earlier judgement. Instead I follow wisdom from my work…don’t change or modify the calm and soberly considered standards you chose before. I will delay final judgement until the 11am update. We will still have until 2p until stormy winds and rain and another 3hrs after that until hazardous conditions. It would only be a local overnight to higher ground. I will wake the kids in a bit to make all the prep to go. We can always stand down if it turns better.

XW

7:15a message ”I would like to stay at the house if you will allow it. I don’t think my heart will handle being away from the kids for something this big.

At 7:30 I head out to give big dog his morning walk. It is cool and calm with half the neighbors gone. I see XW’s van parked at the end of the street a few houses down. So….she drove over and has been here for how long? I don’t know. For a moment I feel like ignoring her for now and taking the dog on his walk. I chide myself, "g, that’s kinda avoidant of you. Face your pain. Do what you choose…and in line with who you choose to be and your values.”.

I walk over to the driver side and see her slumped against the window with her face in her hands.

G, calmly and slowly with consideration, ”Hey….. Go in the house.”

XW jumps slightly, and opens the door…setting off the car alarm in a completely silent and still neighborhood. She scrambles to figure out how to turn it off. Eventually she figures out to push to right button on the key fob. ”Go ahead…*sigh*…you can laugh at me,” she said with resignation and good humor apparently. She goes into my home and I go on the dog walk.

Go prep

As kids wake I tell them to build their go bags. Unless the 11am comes though substantially better, we are going. I’ll decide then. Put enough together for an overnight. I start sealing the back door and garage door to give a couple more feet of protection should flooding occur. Kids don’t want to leave any animals…even inside on the second floor. D19’s rabbit can go to family friends who originally found him. Chickens can go to one of D19’s friends who has chickens.

XW

XW ~11, ”Hey, I’ll take the dogs in my van and find somewhere else to go, even just north. “

G, ”OK. That is fine with me.”. She can choose what she wants.

XW ~11:15 ”Hey, I have to know if we’re going because I have to leave earlier. Are we going?”

I have a bunch of thoughts at this sequence. But STFU smoothie
- You are an adult woman who can do what she pleases.
- What "we?"
- You can choose to leave anytime.
- You divorced me, for OM, yet:
- She is looking for me the man, head of household to lead. Make the decisions.
- OM is no where to be found.

G, thinking for a moment, ”We ARE leaving unless I get definitive better news. You are to go now. Head out. If we get better news I’ll let you know.”

XW looking a little settled at course of action defined for her, ”OK. Love you D19, D17, S12. Come on dogs.”

I hand her the bin with dog food, dog baggies, dog bowls. Off she goes.

Departure

I look at D19 who had been watching, ”You know any of you can go with her.”

D19, ”Are you nuts? Besides…. I don’t want us kids to be separated….at all.”

Oh. And in line with various kids statements several times over the last few weeks. Every time one of them has said the word “family” it meant the four of us. It seems the underlying current is us four are “family” and mom is just mom. I kind of expected this when they live 100% with me. Still not sure how I feel.

We load D17’s birds into my little truck and strap the chickens in the bed. We load D19’s bunny into her car. We load overnight stuffs. D19 and D17 take my truck to go drop off chickens. I take D19’s little car to drop off bunny. We’ll meet at L’s mom’s house in about an hour and a half. Driving rain. Roads empty. Not hazardous yet.

Overnight

I call L’s mom, a single older lady, to touch base and make sure all is well. I didn’t know her before this.

L’s Mom, ”You are welcome here. I have a couple of others staying over. Would you pick up one of them and his dog up in a while? And where is your W going if she isn’t coming here?”

G thinking…be without fear, be kind, ”I’ll be happy to pick him and his dog up. I’ll wait until D19 and D17 get there with the truck though. And … W is now XW. She left me last year for someone else. She left my home with our dogs earlier and I don’t know where she is going.”

L’s Mom, ”Oh…. That’s hard…. I understand… I experienced some of that when I was 14. Well, she’s a grown woman and makes her own choices. She can worry about where she is going.”

It was us four, a man and his dog+cat, and a woman that L’s mom worked with. It was a pleasant evening getting to know them and ended with the man and us four playing UNO … with special rules my kids play such as +2 and +4 cards are stackable!

L’s mom gave us the master bedroom with large bed. D19 and D17 decided they would sleep on the sides with S12 in the middle. They crashed out pretty quick after we quit UNO. I slept on one end of the couch with the man on the other end.

g

[MamaG]

G - I have so much to learn from you. While I get emotional, you provide me with chuckles. I sat here and laughed on a couple of comments. You are quite a writer. Love how you set the stage leading up to the funny.

And D's response - are you nuts? Love it. They too have come a long way.

Nice job taking XW in stride. And, interesting that she turned to you to be the calm in the storm - pun intended. SMH

Nice to be reminded of all the wonderful people in this world - she opened her house and gave your family the master. Poor kindness. And you got a fun UNO night with a new friend, too.

I'll assume you're back home at this point, especially with this sense of humor.

Take care.

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

You and the kids weathered this adventure well. Nice going Dad!

D19, ”Are you nuts? Besides…. I don’t want us kids to be separated….at all.”

Lol.

Also, doesn’t get much clearer than that.

Every time one of them has said the word “family” it meant the four of us. It seems the underlying current is us four are “family” and mom is just mom.

That is how it is for my brood as well. Remain the strong and stable rock g.

I have a bunch of thoughts at this sequence. But STFU smoothie
- You are an adult woman who can do what she pleases.
- What "we?"
- You can choose to leave anytime.
- You divorced me, for OM, yet:
- She is looking for me the man, head of household to lead. Make the decisions.
- OM is no where to be found.

Well done holding your tongue.

However, yes, where was OM during XW’s stress? Shrug. Such is such a relationship built upon sand.

Have a great day g!

D

[grok]

Side XW storm notes I forgot.

After the storm in draft. Time to make dinner for the kids. Bacon crumbled into Mac-n-cheese + Broccoli sprouts.

Other XW remarks this last week to which I stayed STFU smooth.

”Last weeks hurricane, I stayed in the RV Park clubhouse. If I stayed this time I’d be dead with the predicted flood surge.”

I had no idea. I didn’t ask. I wondered where her friends were. I wondered where OM was. I wondered if she was trying to prove something on her own. I let it go.

”I moved my stuff out of the RV into my storage units, but I don’t know if I’ll have ANYTHING left after this. NOTHING to come back to.”

I stayed with versions of “OK” or STFU.

Does she have insurance on any of it? I don’t know.

In a short side conversation with D19 about the RV she says, ”I think she does, but honestly, it would be better if it got wiped out.”

Side XW FB notes I forgot.

On FB social media I posted the quote about "a death has occurred" on the date of the court order. Later it occurred to me XW might see it. Huh. It occurred to me later.... I looked in my friends list and didn't see her there anymore. Hmmm...I guess she unfriended me? I had been chatting a bit with the maid-of-honor that week as she is an old friend of mine also. I checked her friend list and XW is not there. ???

I hadn't seen posts from or checked her postings for six months or more. I forget now. I debated briefly with myself about checking now. Why would I? I decided to check just briefly. She is in my life because of our kids. Having a general awareness is important for them at least. And I was curious.

- Not listed by her name anymore, although the direct link has her name if you know it.
- Display name is a steampunk style nickname (historically a minor noble) I gave her many many years ago
- Friends list is blank, NONE listed.
- A series of posts from early September railing against those who she believes to be persecuting her.
- Stating she is not giving up on OM until he tells her directly to go away and doesn't love her.
- Stating she doesn't need anyone's help.
- Stating they are all hypocrites to condemn her behavior.

I closed the tab. I feel no need to look more. I think she is ... In a rowboat in the storm. I feel no need to look again either. I wasn't sure what I would feel.

g

[grok]

...Milton part next…

Late Wed evening, about 1130p the power finally went out. Annoyingly for us modern folks, so did internet access. Both the household and cellular internet went down. No more news for us. We shared another glass of wine LOL.

After those games of UNO, we went to bed (well the couch for me) listening to the wind howl and thumps on the roof from oak branches falling down. We all prayed for only small ones hitting the roof. I loaned a sleeping bag to the other man. In the end, this wind would be about the same as if I had stayed in my house. The storms path took it near to both locations.

Thursday

morning

In the wee hours of the morning I check on everything. Ever since my three were colic ridden infants (how does 18 months of that sound?), I have not been able to easily sleep through the night. I have to check all is well. … I find D19 just about falling out of the bed and almost in tears.

D19, ” Daaaaaad. They keep rolling over and spreading out and pushing me off the bed. HEEEEELP … please.’

Yeah, S12 spreads out all over…and D17 wasn’t helping on the other side.

G, ”Look D19, just shove them over. Stop worrying about them being asleep. “. And so I did. D17 woke partly and looked at me skeptically but moved over when I whispered. S12 never woke. And D19 had space. Yeah….some years of parenting and you just stop worrying about some things.

D19 whispers, ”thanks dad”

Coffee that morning was a little more difficult. I hadn’t thought it through and neither had they….although we had all the right supplies at home. Oh well. Multiple rounds with a little hand grinder, and water in a boiling pot on a camp stove …. Pour it through a strainer. LOL.

A venture outside showed branches large and small everywhere. One neighbor had a large oak tree fallen over into the driveway…right up against the house. Their back yard has a tree fallen over into an upright tree…but some of the branches are resting on their roof. I see another fallen over down the street.

I walked down the street to take a look and talk with other who are out. I hear news. The main road is blocked by downed trees and downed power lines. Some of the ways out are blocked by flooding. Just too much rain to drain away quickly.

OK! After a little food and coffee I round up my three and go outside with the others to attack initial cleanup. The whole neighborhood is doing the same. Piling debris at the curb. I start seeing a variety of off road vehicles roaming around. Those who have chain saws are out and about helping everyone. About 10 people congregate at the neighbor with the oak in the driveway. … and 30 minutes later all the small/medium limbs are chopped up at the curb … while two guys with larger trucks and chains pull the main trunk out of the driveway. We pick up their back yard and the other neighbor’s yard too.

After this I send the kids in to get ready to leave. It’s almost noon and we have cleared up our host’s place and her neighbors. I figure the main roads are likely cleared enough to drive. People are just getting it done. No waiting for some notional official services. We’ll pick up the bunny and chickens on the way, taking the risk all is OK for them at home.

jewlery

D19, ”Dad, Neighbor C just offered to give us jewelry he makes as a thank you for all the cleanup we did. He said come into his house to see. I was a bit creeped, but then he said go ask your dad first. So I think it’s OK if you come with us.”.

Hmmm… Well done D19. I said it was fine and went to talk to C. He says, ”yeah, I am so impressed by your kids. They all helped willingly and cheerfully without any asking. They are amazing. I make jewelry on the side and wanted to thank and encourage them. I told them to ask you because I don’t want them or you to think I have any other reason.”.

I talk with him a while. He’s still attached to his last XW from two years ago. Even though he caught her ”fvck’n some 25 year old”. …. “It still feels like cheating to think of someone else.”. Huh…No DB to help him. He’s a bit of a pot head, has some disabilities, has a bird named Crue after the band Motley Crue, has a signed guitar on the wall, makes jewelry out of things like bear skulls. …. We did go in and D19 / D17 selected earrings. His custom jewelry art is creative and very well done.

return

XW calls and talks with Ds as I had hands full. She drops the dogs off at my home and reports a little water in the entryway… thinking water had flooded up to the house and entered a little. I think this strange and unlikely given the path of the eye…but remain STFU.

After we pack up, our host sends us home with two plastic tubs. One of soup…and one of pancake batter. Ready to go. Kind and thoughtful. Onwards to home. It takes a while though. Stoplights are NOT working and not everyone understands the 4 way stop rule. Detours are made because trees are blocking roads and not cut up yet. Online maps are not working. Power lines laying in flooded waters…

Our little neighborhood has several oaks down, lots of branches. No signs of flood surge though. Sure enough, water in the front door was just driving rain through the seals. Power is OUT. Water is ON. And we have a lot of pickup and put away to do. I make pancakes while kids bring in the stuff, we eat, put away some, and kids all fall asleep on the living room floor. I go outside to do more recovery.

XW

XW drives up late afternoon and walks towards the front door. I glance up as I work, ”the kids are all asleep on the floor…”. XW looking tired, ”I just need a bathroom”. I just continue my cleanup as she goes in the house.

I go back inside an hour plus later. I don’t see her downstairs and the kids are still asleep amongst pillows on the floor. Huh…. Eventually S12 wakes and snacks and eventually finds XW upstairs. I hear murmuring for a bit and he comes back down. Hours pass and D19, D17 wake up and we all make dinner, eat and chill downstairs.

Eventually D17 realizes, “hey, momma is upstairs? What is she doing here? How long has she been here”

G, pausing, answering straight, “I have no idea what she is doing. She came over many hours ago while you were all asleep.”

I suspect she is sleeping on S12s bed. I have not checked or asked. Just go about my evening. All three kids just give me a look that seems to be “shrug,” and go about their evening downstairs. I found it...curious... none of them felt the need to go hang out with her.

She eventually comes down and says goodbye to the children. 9p ish? I stay STFU. She probably WAS very tired. I suspect (and don’t ask) she stayed in her van all night with the dogs after driving north out of the storms path and back again. I keep thinking of L’s mom, “well, she’s a grown woman and makes her own choices.“ I guess I do too.

We planned going to sleep downstairs, all splayed out on the floor, as that is normally cooler with no AC. After the storm has passed though, cooler air is present, and we discover it is better to open all the windows at night and sleep in our own beds.

Zzzzzzz

g

[grok]

holding it together

D17 came over to me yesterday (not to mom? hmmm) to talk about her hair...and school pictures...and curls made by braids. The discussion moved into what hair styles I and my sisters had as kids. Ah Ha! I have pictures. And so I brought out a box of prints, sorry D17, no digital cameras yet! 80's hair styles. Clothes. I've had hair down to my waist for a few years ... Just to try it out. LOL.

D17, "hey! those are envelopes from Target. enough from "Payless" Show me those"

Sure...Adventures at Lake Powell, motorcycles, etc... pictures of XW. and me. 20 years ago having adventures. the hair and clothes 🙂

I kept it together and showed her.

then ... had to be alone for a while

more things to put away ... sealed ... marked don't open until you know

it all ties together

Listening to random from my entire Plex server this morning -

Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain by Willie Nelson

Love is like a dying ember
And only memories remain
And through the ages I'll remember
Blue eyes crying in the rain

Some day when we meet up yonder
We'll stroll hand-in-hand again
In a land that knows no parting
Blue eyes crying in the rain

Except...it is MY eyes that are blue.

So. This morning I PRAY

Wartime Prayers by Paul Simon

Times are hard, it's a hard time
But everybody knows all about hard times
The thing is, what are you going to do?
Will you cry?
And try to muscle through?
And try to rearrange your stuff?
But when the wounds are deep enough
And it's all that we can bear
We wrap ourselves in prayer

Because you cannot walk with the holy
If you're just a halfway decent man
But I don't pretend that I'm a mastermind
With a genius marketing plan
I'm trying to tap into some wisdom
Even a little drop would do
I want to rid my heart of envy
And cleanse my soul of rage
Before I'm through

g

afterthought
I pray for the day soon when I feel I can select a new name for my series of posts...my set of folders for all the documents in this tragedy...my collected bookmarks. I don't think I've ever said. Internally I have them all in folders named

NULL

Latin ne=not ullus=any ... emptiness ... the void

[grok]

Benson Boone

At the Benson Boone concert. Almost time to start. D17 is dancing in her seat to the intro music *grin*. She’s got the silly feels emotions going on. Oh that female side of things.

D19 is down in the pit by the stage with her friends. I saw a hand wave once. …

woman and feels/emotions

It seems to ring true…how true is this?

Most men do not comprehend just how much a woman's emotional nature affects her entire reality. Even if a woman is logically aware that her emotions have taken her perception hostage, this awareness does not provide her with control over her emotions. She is almost helpless until her emotions pass.

Imagine a woman on a raft in turbulent waters heading towards a waterfall. The woman is aware of the fact that she is heading towards the waterfall and does her best to paddle to safety. Nevertheless, she is still carried by the rough waters through rapids and towards the waterfall.

A common example is where a woman is with a good man and she logically knows that this is a good man. His behaviour changes, causing the woman to lose positive feelings and to focus on negative feelings for this good man. She decides to leave. Even though she logically knows that this may not be the best decision, emotionally she will say "it doesn't feel right", and will justify her decision to leave. Later, when her negative feelings subside, the woman lives with the logical consequences of her decision, sometimes with regret. A deep state of denial is also another possible outcome.

Most women will think that they are being highly logical when analysing their emotions and their decisions, but they are still subject to their emotional state at the time. A wise woman will know to pause and do nothing so that her emotions pass with time.

g

[Caligirl]

Grok

It is true . For a long time I would paddle hard , address every emotion . Now I do nothing and pause . If it doesn’t pass after a few days then I will touch on it usually on here . I find this the safest place to do it as we have all been in or are in the same raft .

Love the GAL you do with the kids . Amazing how different they are . One in the pit and one in the chair .

[grok]

Line of contact

after Milton

That Friday, we are in recovery mode.  No gas available.  No power.  Slowly putting things away and performing cleanup.  Cold showers.  Figuring out temporary routines.

Sometime around noon I notice XW's van parked at the end of the street two houses down.  I've seen no messages.  Kids are just doing their own thing.  I wonder how long she has been there.  I wonder what she is doing.  I say nothing.

She stays there all day and evening.  I'm not sure if kids notice or not.  They don't go out to her.  

Late evening, I think?  She comes in to say goodnight to kids.  She says some mention of ... well, there is no internet available at her RV.  And that she is off to find someplace cooler to sleep.  Logical me of course still runs it though logical thought processes first.  

* No home internet or cellular hot spot?  
* You had both, ...
* Either way, why park outside my home?
* You could get internet service so many other places and ways.
* ..... And on.

Stop it G.  You noticed disconnects.  Let it go.  

settlement

One evening last week, I was doing something outside when the XW drove up.  She walked up and asked if we could talk for a few minutes.  I said sure, and just stood there.  She indicated maybe it would be better to go inside and talk in private.  Since the kids were not outside, I just stood there and asked what it was she wanted to talk about.  

* About the financial settlement, we need to start doing it
* Because the kids are never going to accept going to her RV
* She is planning on buying a house with property where her parents can build or park their RV
* She will pay cash...
* Which requires the settlement money
* Because finding a job has proven really hard
* Since unlike me she doesn't know anything about mortgages and stuff
* She knows their will be some sort of maintenance cost and effort associated
* The kids can come over then and do their school work in peace since the dogs barking won't bother them other there
* She can take the mean chicken other there
* Her dad will help her do all this
* It will be closer because those 11 miles back and forth are killing her

I stayed slurping my STFU smoothie.  Listened attentively.  Thought about she could be doing any of the settlement items herself if she wanted.  Thought about the default role she is following.  She expects me to lead, her to follow.  Thought about the split sets back any retirement consideration about 10 extra years of work.  Spoke business.

* I have started.
* Small investment account X has been cashed out and agreed amounts transferred to an account in your name.  
* MUCH larger account F has been contacted and I am working through what they need to split as agreed.  
* I will start on account F2 later.
* Others to follow

This has not been my priority.  None of this is operating funds.  I'm busy living life.  Other thoughts I had.

* I don't think she realizes that some of this will require court orders which will cost more $1000s.  
* I don't think she really understands the cost tail associated with maintaining a house.
* I don't think she really understands the kids not coming over to the RV is NOT about the RV.
* No S*** finding work paying for the life you had been provided for is not so easy as you keep thinking.  That was my expression of love, commitment and sacrifice.
* 11 miles?  This is the woman always rolled her eyes at my unhappiness when my commute extended another 20 or 40 minutes each way...and proclaimed she was just fine with hours in traffic running the kids around.

showing up

Well, XW has been showing up more often each work day and working with S12 on his homeschooling.  Perhaps 15 to 20 hours each week lately.  It overlaps with D17's time a home a few hours.  ... It had been as few as 2 hours in a week.  

I find myself feeling irritated sometimes.  It feels like cake eating.  and is in many ways.  She gets happy time with the kids when she shows up without any of the work of running a household or family.  As a workmate quiped, "Everyone wants to be the grandparents."  

I remind myself I made this choice to allow her in my home during work hours for this purpose.  It was never explicit, but in my mind it gave my children continuity, a single home, and avoided a custody questions.   ...  

why

Why does it cause me damage?  perhaps we are never quite as detached as we think.  perhaps I am judging rather than giving her to God.

...perhaps it has roots in HOW we love differently, makes us uniquely vulnerable in different ways...

Men and women love differently. I would argue that most women love their children more deeply than the men in their lives, perhaps because we biologically see our children as needing our protection. In contrast, male love tends to encompass both their women and their children. A man would willingly endure hardship to keep those he loves warm and safe. Most men express their love in a steadfast and dutiful manner - grounded in logic. For many men, providing affection, support, and protection is a rational choice. 

In many ways, men are more vulnerable in love because it is less ruled by emotions. Once a good man makes a choice, he usually commits fully. We, however, often love through the lens of emotion, which can colour our logical decision-making. Without spiritual and emotional self-awareness, many women can be as cruel as we are loving, justifying our actions as “morally correct” because it "felt right" in the moment. Until we learn to emotionally ground ourselves, we may unconsciously rely on the men around us to fulfil that role. I believe many men recognise this dynamic and often dread the implications of their feelings for a woman. 

Men's practical love is embodied by their willingness to make significant sacrifices, akin to giving an organ to the woman they cherish. Conversely, a woman's version of "ride or die" love often manifests as an unwavering pseudo-spiritual-level emotional commitment. For us, a profound romantic emotional bond we form is like giving away a part of ourselves - an emotional organ that can only be shared so many times - perhaps fewer than three in a lifetime. 

I think the key to fostering long-term female love lies in gratitude - for how men love. However, this requires a degree of psychological and spiritual purity and maturity. Spiritually healthy women tend to find joy in the beauty of the world, making gratitude a more accessible and natural response.

This does seem to describe me.

g

[DnJ]

Good Morning g

* No home internet or cellular hot spot?
* You had both, ...
* Either way, why park outside my home?
* You could get internet service so many other places and ways.
* ..... And on.

Stop it G. You noticed disconnects. Let it go.

I agree, strange to sit (hide out) in one’s van all day and evening. She could, maybe even should, be cleaning up after the storm. Seems everyone is/was.

At any rate, yes, big red stop sign. You stopped those thoughts. It’s her life and choice, let it go.

I just stood there and asked what it was she wanted to talk about.

* About the financial settlement, we need to start doing it
…

Yes, you should likely implement the agreed terms.

XW shared a lot of her details, and problems - both current and foreseeable. Her problems. Let go.

showing up

Well, XW has been showing up more often each work day and working with S12 on his homeschooling. Perhaps 15 to 20 hours each week lately. It overlaps with D17's time a home a few hours. ... It had been as few as 2 hours in a week.

I find myself feeling irritated sometimes. It feels like cake eating. and is in many ways. She gets happy time with the kids when she shows up without any of the work of running a household or family. As a workmate quiped, "Everyone wants to be the grandparents."

I remind myself I made this choice to allow her in my home during work hours for this purpose. It was never explicit, but in my mind it gave my children continuity, a single home, and avoided a custody questions. ...

why

Why does it cause me damage? perhaps we are never quite as detached as we think. perhaps I am judging rather than giving her to God.

...perhaps it has roots in HOW we love differently, makes us uniquely vulnerable in different ways...

This agreement of her helping out with school work at your home allowed you to retain sole custody. The kids stay at your home and only visit Mom if/when they wish to. I think. Correct?

XW is now coming over far more than she used to. Hopefully, positive progress is being made in S12’s homeschooling. Still, she is in your face more.

And it hurts.

But why?

Big red stop sign!

Let go!

Yes, we love deeply. Sacrifice deeply for those we love. Would die for them. Now, the really hard part. Live for them.

Find acceptance, for them. For you.

Let go, detach, accept, emotionally understand, give her to God, give yourself too (btw).

Dying for what one believes in is easy. Living for those values, therein is the test/testament.

Dying for a belief. Stubborn, rigid, stagnant, unyielding, no room to grow/evolve, and such. Dredges feelings of anger, judgement, non-forgiveness, a war-like mentally. And fighting begets fighting. All that twists inside one.

Living for a belief. Finding passion, joy, meaning, purpose, reason, and such in the endeavour. Less black and white, or right and wrong. Finding win/win outcomes. Finding your true deep wanted outcome/reason. Evolution. Becoming. Loving. Living.

Perhaps, look at, frame the situation, XW is like a tutor for S12. You’d not be upset with a tutor helping out so much.

She is also his Mom. Having her in his life will likely promote more in the positive side of the balance sheet, than if she was absent. (I do have some experience in that scenario.)

Anyhow, you are correctly asking why to the right person - yourself. Find your peace with XW/Mom’s grandparent-like dropping in.

This is in the realm of beliefs and convictions. How one lives. Why one lives. Not intellectual, not emotional. Contains both, and yet is beyond. The spiritual path, difficult to find the proper/exact wording, hopefully it comes across as intended.

D

[MamaG]

She stays there all day and evening. I'm not sure if kids notice or not. They don't go out to her.

I'm speechless from many miles away. When you and I (and DnJ), the ones thinking more logically can't make sense of this, you know there's something really off with her. And, yes, soooo so many places to connect to wifi. Maybe answers will come someday. For now, count your blessings. 3 beautiful and healthy kids under your roof. Lots of laughs and adventure.

As I read through the many 'settlement' bullets, it's clear she has faced what she has walked away from. You bring so much to the table and now you share it with the family of 4. She's feeling her consequences.

I love those smoothies too. Keep drinking them and keep stock of them. Clearly, between the two of us, it'll be like TP during Covid. lol

* 11 miles? This is the woman always rolled her eyes at my unhappiness when my commute extended another 20 or 40 minutes each way...and proclaimed she was just fine with hours in traffic running the kids around.

Funny, not funny how the shoe fits differently now. Sounds like apathy has been her thing for some time.

I find myself feeling irritated sometimes. It feels like cake eating. and is in many ways. She gets happy time with the kids when she shows up without any of the work of running a household or family. As a workmate quiped, "Everyone wants to be the grandparents."

Someone you know well often says, 'better not bitter'.

Easier said than done. I know all too well. Seek better. Be better.

And, the kids may love and need it, too. It sounds like she's being a good mom.

Kids know who is doing the parenting, caring, running of the house, feeding them....and on and on. Kids know who is doing the schooling. And, they don't another grandparent. They need stability and love, as you're providing. It's not lost on them.

She's not doing this 'to' you. Frankly, she's likely doing it 'for' her and her comforts/guilt/who knows?

Detached? Ya, probably not. It's the hardest thing I've ever been asked to do. This past weekend, I told my H that "I'm not depressed. I'm healed.'

Minutes after getting home and he left, I learned just how unhealed I am. Detached, I am not.

Give yourself grace. Raising a family, maintaining a home and holding a FT job as a single parent is not for the weak. You're doing great! I really believe that!

MG

[Caligirl]

Grok

Being the rock solid parent can be challenging. The way I look at the things with the children is , if causing good for them , I allow it as long as it’s not utterly throwing me off . It is a bit of cake eating on your W part . I had a lot of this my first go around . My H would over indulge in the kids to the point of his own exhaustion . Once he dropped them back off to me and asked to shower and nap in our bed . H moved home pretty quickly after that . It didn’t hurt the kids the extra time with him so I just let it run its course . Holding down the fort while someone else gets to the benefits is a hard pill to swallow . Give this time and pause on it .

Your W parking for the day 2 houses away is just odd . Don’t give it any thought . They do odd things that we will never make sense of .

[grok]

Yes, you should likely implement the agreed terms.

This I have been doing. I didn't mean to imply I wasn't. There is just a lot. She meant the big ones which she could use to buy a house. I never structured it to be separated ever. Life insurance cashed and transferred. Investment account F cashed out and transferred. Other life insurance with her as beneficiary to guarantee alimony and child support. 6/18 alimony payments complete. Biggest account F2 is in work. F3 next. Likely need court orders for military reserves retirement ($$$ to have them written). Every medical or school receipt presented, I have reimbursed.

This agreement of her helping out with school work at your home allowed you to retain sole custody. The kids stay at your home and only visit Mom if/when they wish to. I think. Correct?

Not quite right, though defacto right. For D17 and S12, official custody is 50/50.

In practice, ... well she lives in an RV making space more difficult for her. At the same time, she has NOT made the space she does have ... welcoming for them. Trading places...I would have made space where they would enjoy time with me. She has not. As reported by D19 when I asked why none of the three, ever, go visit her in her RV.

She also, somewhere, recognized the stability it grants the kids to stay in the only home they know. In their own beds and spaces. And is fearful of the courts deeming her a "bad mom" and taking away her access.

My personal word, "I will not keep the kids from you. I am not, and have not considered asking for sole custody." They live 100% with me for as long as they want. She has unrestricted access to them when they want to go and workday access to my home for schooling. It is a half spoken agreement.

Home access, so long as they live there as minors, is written into the parenting plan. Though as the mediator quipped, "I know you will both just toss this parenting plan in a drawer and do what ever you want. You have to put something down for the judge though."

I recognized early, though have never spoken of it anywhere but here, the children living with me 100% gives me defacto power. Forcing a change to defacto status takes a six month or more round trip through lawyers and courts. The courts are hesitant to order or force changes to any existing status quo if the children are doing OK as is. Rightly viewing that sending a Sheriff to remove a child from one home to go to another is harmful to the child.

XW is now coming over far more than she used to. Hopefully, positive progress is being made in S12’s homeschooling. Still, she is in your face more.

Yes, positive progress indeed, working through the Classical Conversations curriculum. Though an advantage of home schooling is progress does not need to be linear. She has been making an effort to show she is accomplishing the work now. S12 is disappointed to have less computer game time. ha.

Perhaps, look at, frame the situation, XW is like a tutor for S12. You’d not be upset with a tutor helping out so much.

She is also his Mom. Having her in his life will likely promote more in the positive side of the balance sheet, than if she was absent. (I do have some experience in that scenario.)

And this is exactly my reasoning for both alimony and home access. How much would I pay for D17 and S12 to go to a school I approved of? More than alimony. Is S12 better off with Mom dropping in most days? Yes, stability and Mom both in his life.

I love those smoothies too. Keep drinking them and keep stock of them. Clearly, between the two of us, it'll be like TP during Covid. lol

I've been stocking up. Storage area under the stairs.

Easier said than done. I know all too well. Seek better. Be better.

Ha. Yet another life long project to go with all the others. File under "who do I want to be." That file is getting pretty big.

Minutes after getting home and he left, I learned just how unhealed I am. Detached, I am not.

Give yourself grace. Raising a family, maintaining a home and holding a FT job as a single parent is not for the weak. You're doing great! I really believe that!

Thanks MamaG, that feels very familiar and helps. This ...this... this... has been my first experience with real overwhelming self-doubt, self-worth. It is shocking to me because for most of my life I've been able do just about anything I chose to put my mind and effort towards.

The words and behaviors from the person I trusted most in this world... If you, XW, were that unhappy, was I not worth the effort to work on it? Have I failed my children in not understanding what i needed to work on with XW? ...

Ha. Yet another life long project to go with all the others.

The way I look at the things with the children is , if causing good for them , I allow it as long as it’s not utterly throwing me off . ... Holding down the fort while someone else gets to the benefits is a hard pill to swallow . Give this time and pause on it .

Thanks Caligirl, this is kind of what I was doing, I think. It's good to hear your similar experience and feelings. You can see my "why" above. I've tried to combine "have no expectations" and "is this better for my children than her missing from their lives?" I'm letting it rest. They are happy to see her.


Time to open my eyes. Time to open the shutters and go outside. What am I waiting for?

Kings Kaleidoscope - by Kings Kaleidoscope

In the morning do you want to hide
Shut the shutters up and stay inside?
You're a dreamer with an open eye
What are we waiting for?
...
Are you filling all your space and time
Too afraid to let a friend inside?
You're a current that can turn the tide
So what are we waiting for?
...
You're a kaleidoscope
Be the kaleidoscope
We're the kaleidoscope

g

[grok]

Camping Fri and Sat nights

Though S12 doesn't want to go camping (lite version), I think it is good for him to go with his troop. There were about 20+ other boys plus their fathers there. Good to interact with more boys of various sorts. Good to be bored and lonely sometimes. Good to get out in the physical world for a while. Good to work through the prep, set up, tear down, and clean up later. It was good to go swimming in the natural springs . We had minnows nibbling on our toes.

The location is only 30 minutes from home, so I drove back late Fri night to walk the dogs with D17/D19 and make sure they were set for the evening. Then drove back to S12 and the campground. I judged it part of the experience he needed to go through. It turned out that he stayed in the tent while I was gone. And called Mom.

XW, "Please let me walk the dogs tonight. I really don't mind. S12 called me and was lonely without you there. It will give me time to spend with D17 and D19."
G, "That is fine. S12 is going through necessary parts of a young man's journey."
XW, "Thank You"

Doorbell cam indicated she did go over - about an hour walking the dogs, maybe 40 minutes possible with D17/D19 and then departed.

Navigating …

XW’s parents are back in town. I had heard from the kids that they were coming. And the kids were asking me about schedules so they didn’t say OK when I already had things on the calendar. Nothing direct from XW until Sunday afternoon a message in the group chat (which used to be named “family but in a pique and irritation I renamed “child coordination”),

XW, ”Is it alright with everyone if Grandma and Grandpa bring pizza and play games at 5:30 over there with you?”

D17, *heart emoji*
D19, ” FYI I will be getting home from babysitting around then and will be taking S12 to trim his hair for a bit”
XW, ”should they come a little later?”
D19, ”likely better, I don’t know when I will be done with work. I’ll just be upstairs with him for a bit”
G, ”either time is fine”
XW, ”thank you”

D17, S12 and I were already doing cleanup, so we cleared more areas for pizza and games. Dialog between the kids ran something like,
”is Mom coming over?”
“I don’t know, probably not.”
*shrug*
“Oh, OK.”

I consider. I’m not sure I like XW coming over for this. On the other hand it may be good for my children. I feel very unwilling to “pretend family.” I still hear the words of XW after attending the mandatory state parenting class.
”Oh they explained that we are all still a family, just living in different houses.”.
What sort of feel-good ism is this? Words to make people feel better about their decision? It feels offensive to me.

The grandparents show up around 6:00 with pizza. We eat and talk. Big dog making sad noises in his crate. I think he wanted pizza.

Then we proceed into the living room and start with the card game “Mao,” where you have to learn the rules as you go because you can’t normally speak. Ugh! The kids like it though, because they can penalize those who don’t know it as well…..lol. It takes a while with six of us playing. Next the kids decide we are playing the card game “BS” with two decks. A game of strategically lying. *sign*. I’m terrible at this. Grandpa goes empty of cards first.

It’s about two hours since they arrived and then the door opens and XW walks in, the kids distractedly say “hi mom” and keep playing, she goes and sits behind Grandma holding her crochet. I wonder if that means she intends to stay a while…. We keep playing but Grandma goes out next. Meanwhile D19 and D17 start squabbling about play behavior.

D19 is calling “BS” a lot, and on almost every play D17 makes. D19 has soooo many cards now she certainly won’t go out soon. D17 loudly complains she doesn’t like being called out every time and it isn’t any fun anymore. D19 points out rightly that all rules have been followed. They are now focused more on their argument than the game so I call an end to the game.

a disturbance in the force

G, ”OK, Grandpa and then Grandma have already won. Since we’re not having fun anymore we will end this game here.” Upon which D17 throws her hand down on the coffee table in front of D19, scattering the cards. D17 goes to sit on the couch with a stone face.
D19, ”Daaad, she thew the cards at me!!!”

I see XW’s face contorting and see her getting disturbed. Grandpa and Grandma are sitting back to see how this plays out.

G, ”I see both of you and we will talk / address this later.”
D19, ”Dad, you always say that but never do it…” I file that perception away for later consideration.

XW suddenly grabs her stuff and stalks out the front door in a huff, closing it heavily. We all look at each other.

Suddenly calm, the two squabblers look at each other,
“You think she’s gone for the night?”
“Probably”
“huh”
“Drama much?”
“Yeah, like if anyone it should be one of us.”
“I know right?”
“What the heck man”

S12 looks crestfallen. G, ”hey, you can go out and tell her goodnight if you want.” He gets up and goes out the door.

Grandma tells the girls they shouldn’t be fighting like that.
“Oh grandma, we weren’t fighting.”
“ That would be serious.”
“We’re just squabbling. “
“all sisters do that”
“we’ll be fine by morning”
“I’ll be fine tonight after I fart in her pillow.”
“Outrageous” .
And just like that hey are mostly good again.

Grandpa and Grandma decide that is their cue to depart. They start getting ready. XW comes back in after a while. I go and start cleaning up from dinner. With the grandparents gone, XW and D17 have a long discussion. I hear bits and pieces … excuses as well as “I didn’t handle that well,” etc….

Somewhere in there D19 tells XW she has finally decided she does actually want to go to college after all, and study child behavior. D19 deals with difficult children and special needs children at work and likes working through their behavioral issues. XW replies to this with reminders to D19 she doesn't have the right credits to go to college. D19 is emotionally upset at this, "Then why did you graduate me from High School then!!!" XW then proceeds to lecture her about how she chose not to go the college path and was missing a lot.

Feelings and solutions

An hour after the grandparents leave, and after seeming to mend fences with each child, XW comes to me and asks to talk.
XW, "You know I graduated her because she didn't want to go to college and wasn't ready. You know I gave her the chance/choice. I think I can dig out the missing courses that fit her learning style. ... "
G, "I remember all of it. I know."
It felt like XW thought I wasn't part of the decision. Of course I was. I agreed to let D19 proceed on a non-college path. More school can be done when needed. She wasn't ready.

XW finally leaves and I start kids on evening routines for bed...and go see D19 who is crying in her bed.
"Why was I let graduate?"
"I can't go to college now"
"no good school will take me"
and more feelings

Trying very hard to put into practice my updated understanding of female communication. She is trying to tell me how she feels. I attempt to validate her feelings first. Scary. Sad. Failing. Hopeless. Crushed.
Then trying very hard to express mine about her. Capable. Confident. Skilled.

Followed by fixing/solutions. Missing courses can be made up. Local community college is perfectly fine if your goal is to learn the material in the class. State universities don't give you an advantage there. I will help you through each and every class if you want my help. We can go and find out exactly what it will take to get you on the degree path. There are no closed doors here.

The next day

XW forgets D17 at gymnastics again. I go pick her up.

D17, ”I like grandparents taking us out to eat and pizza, but it is too much sometimes.”
G, ”I understand. It gets to be heavy on the food and heavy food.”
D17, ”yeah, sometimes you just want normal food.”
G, ”well, we will appreciate their generosity. They have always been generous that way. That is how they show they care.”
D17, ”yes, it is very generous of them.”

g

[Caligirl]

Grok

Mind boggling . Just how you wrote she forgot your daughter at gymnastics again . Terrible how this is normal . One of my children signed up for soccer last year . I agreed to pick up one day . H the other . Every day that was H day my daughter would remind him and then me too that H needs to remember to pick her up . He forgot or was late , gave her terrible anxiety . Mind blown of how you just forget your kid and we just pickup the pieces .

[grok]

Threading self between forms of system collapse

Thanks Caligirl. I think as is often repeated here, the WAS often has so much in their heads/hearts/emotions, there is little room for everything else. Pets, children, spouses, ... Bits of MLC and the OM/OW crowding out everything. It's enough to make one jaded. We, the LBS, walk the knife edge of Nihility on one side and hardened toughness of Jade on the other.

Listening to morning jams on the way to work yesterday. Just re-released/mixed electronica to match the theme. One of the best/most famous artists in the genre. No lyrics...D19 gave it an emoji heart. 12 minutes.

Re_Jaded - by Deadmau5

"All the way back in 2007, there was a very limited release of deadmau5’s ‘Jaded’, now, 17 years later – the track is properly available to the masses via a new four-track EP. Includes is the original record, alongside a new 12 minute edit from deadmau5 and another Ambient Mix to go alongside. Finaling the package is a remix from rising producer Volaris."

Love, Marriage, More than a feeling

For good AND ill, drive time is often contemplation time. Love, Life, Loss, where to go now?

To me, love and marriage is so much more than a feeling.

I see XW now and do a double take. At first it looks like my W, then does not... It's as if the W I had is seen through a smoky and distorted funhouse mirror.

Her face fades...I still recall...the dream of a girl I used to know...as she slipped/walked away

More Than a Feeling - Boston

I looked out this morning and the sun was gone
Turned on some music to start my day
I lost myself in a familiar song
I closed my eyes and I slipped away
...
So many people have come and gone
Their faces fade as the years go by
Yet I still recall as I wander on
As clear as the sun in the summer sky
...
When I'm tired and thinking cold
I hide in my music, forget the day
And dream of a girl I used to know
I closed my eyes and she slipped away

She slipped away

It's more than a feeling (More than a feeling)
When I hear that old song they used to play (More than a feeling)
I begin dreaming (More than a feeling)
'Til I see Marianne walk away

g

[grok]

Time for a new thread.

Grief and Gratitude, Grok - (A) Rise

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2950697#Post2950697

... What comes after?

The aftershocks still hit me once in a while. just like described when I first landed here

Though every day at random times it feels like a mountain fell on me.  I can't breathe, can't see, can't think, my hands shake, I feel flattened to nothingness and tears fall ... and then the world starts again.

I keep turning it over in my heart and mind…the predicted point at which I find my self, the LBS…. Despite the void, I’m not sure I want HER back after all she has chosen these last two years. I start to find my peace and equilibrium. What price to give it up?

But

No time for pity parties

... What comes after?


After - by Dillon Chase ft. Thomas Iannucci

Thought I knew what I needed
God to come and relieve this
I was down in the furnace
No peace I'm in pieces
Tell me you love me yeah
Tell me why you took that from me yeah
If you want me to look like you
Then why my life been so ugly
Yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah I really waste a lot of time in my life when I try to be God
And when I try to be Him do I really want to see Him or do I want grief gone
But maybe in the fire every chain on me expires and I get to see dawn
No smoke we are never revoked we held close by the notes of the King's song

And we ain't got no time for pity parties
We throw a party in the pit let's get it started
We blessed and broken left out cold but that don't matter
We celebrate cus' we know what's coming after

We celebrate cus' we know what's coming after
We celebrate cus' we know what's coming after

g