Detaching & setting boundaries w/ clingy boomerang

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

I got nervous, excited, anxious, confused. Woah the emotions. After collecting myself, I read through some notes I've written and told myself that I won't talk nor fill in the dead air. I'm going to listen and validate. I knew this would be hard but I was determined as I knew this to be the recommendation from vets. Didn't sleep much that night.

Well done re-establishing your center and balance. Really like the determination to not fill in the dead air times.

Sunday came and went and I rec'd no text about coming by. Perhaps H just continued to avoid, was scared/fear, emotions from being at game set him back.... Who knows?

Yep, who knows?

Interestingly, H likely doesn’t know either.

His path is driven by his feelings. Something stirred, and he avoided or ran or forgot. These folks do seem to have the attention span of a gnat. Their direction/heading flitting about like their feelings flit about.

Tuesday comes and another text comes in - this is now 6 weeks of texting about the same topic. Not sure if you're all bored with this but I am flabbergasted. I know all too well that this isn't about getting his stuff - thanks DnJ for confirming the dance.

It’s kind of wild isn’t it? And no, not bored at all.

Just sometimes wonder how he doesn't see that he's been needing things for 6 weeks and still hasn't gotten them...I would think H realizes that there is another reason for outreaches. When will he see this?

He sees things much differently than you.

Remember, words vs actions. And even then, only like half of his actions.

Limboland is lonely and hard despite going to work and GALing to stay busy. Hard as it may be, I continue to let go and I'm pretty sure I've dropped the rope - still learning and grieving. Sometimes reluctantly. Logic from vets tells me to keep going and so I do.

You are doing really good. And yes, drop the rope or be dragged.

Limboland is quite the crucible. It’s not forever. And Limboland is choice as well. Embrace it. Keep doing that inner work. You’ll emerge from the crucible version 2.0; bright and shiny like the precious gem you are.

How would vets feel about me providing an 'apology dump' within his talk? Meaning, I apologize for my side of the street with no expectations from him. Wonder if that would contribute to H seeing that I've reflected and made some changes; seeing that therapy helps; acknowledging that I really am a better/different person and not so scary to connect with....

I’d not dump. Certainly, apologize when warranted. Some may be warranted during the talk, maybe days later. Listen and give yourself time to mull over what he has said. Don’t want to water down his talk. If he indeed wants to talk.

As to getting H to see the new and improved you. You can only lead a horse to water. Your best way is to demonstrate it. Actions vs words. You live it. And leave/let H notice when he does. Remember, H has built up a whole narrative in his head. It will take time for him to alter that.

I'm still hoping this is a horrible transition and not crisis. How do I distinguish?

Time.

From the front end it is near impossible to distinguish. A crisis being a transition gone very much into the weeds.

Basically, a crisis is just worse all around. A crisis lasts longer. Much longer. And progresses glacially slow.

A crisis is consuming. A MLCer is lost. A very lost soul.

Two major hallmarks of a midlife crisis are depression and confusion. The exhibited running behaviour is the desperate person trying to get away from their unrealized unexplained inner torment.

Desperate! Desperate people do desperate things.

Hurt! Hurt people, hurt people.

A crisis is truly horrible. Emotions and torment cranked to eleven, and even passed that.

We all go through various life stages. The midlife transition is a time of recollection, recognizing, reconciling, life’s accolades and regrets; achievements and failures; and such. A transition itself can be tumultuous full of disorder and chaos or more smooth depending upon the individuals past, personality, ability to accept, and a host of other variables. My own transition was rather smooth methinks.

Exiting into the next stage of life can take various paths too, depending upon one’s life to that point.

Myself, I found, I am, happy with my past marriage, my kids, my career, my life. Such leads to a time of peace and contentment, IMHO. I’ve accumulated very few regrets over my years.

Some exit or find their golden years less golden. Such an exit being more of resigned to their lot in life, rather than looking forward to it. We’ve all seen those grumpy people grumbling away. Eyes and outlook more downcast than upward and forward looking.

Midlife, like all transitions, is about acceptance. It’s a loss. One must grieve it. One must find their acceptance with it. No one gets a do-over here, and those that cannot find peace with that, get caught and tangled in the transition. Desperately trying to relive what they feel is their lost youth/life. A bad transition may buy the red sport car, a horrible crisis will burn down their entire life.

Each is seeking their path towards acceptance.

Time.

A MLT builds upon one’s successful life stages thus far. A MLC is seeded from long ago unknown trauma(s). A lot more growing up to do in a crisis.

Time.

Transitions take time.

A crisis takes much more time. And some never exit.

D

[MamaG]

RegretfulLA and DnJ thanks for stopping by to share and comment. I love to hear from you and our community.

RegretfulLA, Congratulations on your cancer-free success. Prayers for all who face cancer! Happy to hear it's been 18 years for you.

I feel like our situations are so similar - our H's are so similar - though you're much farther down the separation path, and I read your blog here for advice and support (my H will be moving out soon). I think you're doing an amazing job of handling this horrific situation. But look at you - you've learned to survive and thrive on your own, you've learned to stand up for yourself with H and you've learned to fix things too!!

Everyone's situation is different and yet, so identical. Learning from others and hearing that there is someone else out there in a similar sitch, is validating on some level. There are times that validation is what I need. So, thank you for helping me along my journey, too!

You are doing really good. And yes, drop the rope or be dragged.

Limboland is quite the crucible. It’s not forever. And Limboland is choice as well. Embrace it. Keep doing that inner work. You’ll emerge from the crucible version 2.0; bright and shiny like the precious gem you are.

Today, is a particularly hard day for me. I went away with my brother for most of the week. This would never have happened if H hadn't stepped away from our R. Doing things with others is a positive change for me. Brother has been supportive. I don't lean on him to understand my sitch but in his own way, he offers support through companionship and adventure. Our time away was nice. We laughed and bonded. We frustrated each other. I got triggered, as he did. Eye-opening as I reflect on who I am and who I'd like to be. At times, vaca felt like a distraction and going through the motions. Watching couples behave 'normal' through romantic sight-seeing spots, at the airport, in restaurants...everywhere...with love in their eyes was difficult at times. Memories...I was happy for them and reminiscing at the same time. As we traveled, there were many reminders of what H would do for me as a traveling companion. I'm still hurting and healing. Sigh.

In hindsight, I did all I could to not shed tears, and I found myself burying my feelings to enjoy the week. Didn't want Brother to have bad feelings. It was such pressure. Yes, pressure. It reminded me of stories on this site to explain how MLCers feel - pressure from everyone and everything. I better understand what pressure may feel/look like. Coming home this morning allowed me to let it all out. I held a pity party with my two dogs. And then, I turned to this site and re-read my thread. Yup, more tears coupled with strength to carry on as I face reality.

Not once did H ask how I was feeling or offer to do anything helpful. Well, once, he did offer to refill my water and then left it downstairs. It's such a bad feeling when they can see that you are hurting and they just turn away. Do we feel worse for ourselves or worse for THEM to be in such a state?

RegretfulLA, you ask, "do we feel worst for ourselves or ....THEM..." I don't know. In my pity party today, I got mad at H for 'doing this to me', for being selfish, for not being there for me, for taking away from summer joys, for texting me about the same thing over months and DOING nothing, for not texting, for leaving me alone with a large home to tend to. The list goes on and on. It was quite a party. Mom called in the middle of this party. I convinced myself that I could compartmentalize my 'party' feelings and that I could answer her. Nope. I now need to apologize to mom. Sigh.

Today, I feel worst for me. Tomorrow is another day. It'll be a better day. Tomorrow is dad's bday so I'll be surrounded by family and celebrating someone who has always shown strength. As DnJ reminds me, I just need to get through today and do the inner work. I'll gain something from today's feelings.

Keep doing that inner work. You’ll emerge from the crucible version 2.0; bright and shiny like the precious gem you are.

DnJ - glad you aren't bored with the dance as I continue to step through it. Sunday night came the text about coming Monday. I told him that this week was a crazy one and then suggested Saturday. H responded that he may work on Saturday. In my head, I responded with, 'You used to work 3 or 4 days a week. Now you HAVE to work 6 days.' I then returned to my vacation thoughts and provided no response. Here we are Saturday and no additional text nor visit. Yup, now at 7 weeks...

Just sometimes wonder how he doesn't see that he's been needing things for 6 weeks and still hasn't gotten them...I would think H realizes that there is another reason for outreaches. When will he see this?

He sees things much differently than you.

Can you expand on this comment? I believe H sees things differently but what did you mean by 'differently'? What are possibilities of 'different' so I can better understand your thought?

Listen and give yourself time to mull over what he has said. Don’t want to water down his talk. If he indeed wants to talk.

Yup! Makes sense. At this point, I wonder if H will ever come by...today's not looking good as I've still not heard from him despite me offering today (Saturday).

DnJ - thanks for all the insight on transition versus crisis. Good refresher and appreciate your grounding comments. Still praying for a transition.

An update on D & H's situation... While I was on vaca, D called me with relief that she finally decided how to respond to dad. It had been a week since H texted her that he was having suicidal thoughts. She never took the threat seriously, so she decided to think through her response. I was proud that she allowed herself the time she needed so as to not react. Rather, she responded with what I see as a truth dart. In short, D reminded H that it had been nearly a year (since BD2 and she learned about H's wish to divorce) and he doesn't appear to be happier nor act any differently. She then suggested that it is time to seek a therapist. All the while, she ignored his effort to coerce her into a response to his manipulation/control attempts. I'm not sure if she KNOWS what she's doing but D's responses appear to be following advice shared here. That is, delayed responses, truth darts, not emotionally based reactions, short responses, non-engaging. I promise, D is having a hard time with all of this but from H's perspective, I'd like to think that he begins to see that she has it all together and he's missing out on who once was so much of his world. I'm not sure how I feel about her insisting on seeking a therapist as this has been her constant message to him. He may see it as controlling....and we know MLCers like to be in control. Time will tell, won't it?

[RegretfulLA]

I am sorry, MamaG! I hope your pity party helped you clear some of your emotions. But sometimes, you just have to let those emotions out. I haven't had my pity party yet but I'm sure once everyone clears out of here next month, I'll have one. I also have 2 dogs btw! I am sure I will be leaning on them for comfort and company!

I feel like there is a lot of grief in this journey. As they say, grief comes in waves. Some days are fine, others are hard. You never know when you'll be hit by a wave, but in time, the waves get smaller.

I would love to see your H get some therapy. Coming from your D, it might be easier for him to hear. Certainly he will never listen to you if you say it.

Good for you for spending some time with your brother and getting away. I empathize with your feelings at seeing happy couples. I'm not much of a social media user, but now it's even harder because I feel envious of my friends' happy relationships. We don't need that in our face when we are struggling. One thing that I heard a lot when I was going through cancer was "new normal". Well, this is your new normal. Pretty soon it won't feel new, and it will just feel normal, as hard as that seems right now.

And one more thing: it seems to me that most LBS end up doing BETTER. Maybe they've had to take a financial hit, but they regain their dignity and some sense of themselves. As you told me, you and your H have been together basically your entire lives, so you have been in the role of wife or wife/mother for a very long time. I have been working with my therapist on ME. And this is your time to work on YOU - who is MamaG and what makes her happy?

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Just sometimes wonder how he doesn't see that he's been needing things for 6 weeks and still hasn't gotten them...I would think H realizes that there is another reason for outreaches. When will he see this?

He sees things much differently than you.

Can you expand on this comment? I believe H sees things differently but what did you mean by 'differently'? What are possibilities of 'different' so I can better understand your thought?

A quote within a quote within a quote. For some reason I feel like watching Inception today. LOL.



H is driven by emotions. Basically depression. His behaviours, his “running” behaviours are him both, trying to outrun his feelings and to actually feel something, to feel alive. H is tormented, and numb. Almost dead inside while simultaneously consumed by emotions. It’s little wonder they are overwhelmed.

We all see, interpret, the world through our own lens. And our own position, distance, vantage point. You have a much different view of H’s crisis than he does.

You see H’s MLC rationally and have an understanding of the journey. The overall why of it. Why it is happening. Your vantage point allows a much different perspective than H can see.

H is driven by his emotions. He sees and interprets his world emotionally. Emotionally, that’s the “why” my XW could and did through away her own children.

Both H’s and your views are valid and true. The same truth, just different keyholes/lens looking upon the world.

Anyhow, differences and possibilities. H says he needs his things. Yet, seven weeks go by. So not needs, more wants. You think H would realize this. That’s your perspective of course.

Depression. H may indeed need his things. However, depression is dark and consuming. Oh, it can twist and bring down a soul.

My own slog through depression after BD was deep. Life just went grey. Nothing had any joy. Nothing had any urgency. If fact, an especially regrettable fact, there was such a lack of urgency or timeliness, I just keep putting off ordering my daughter’s graduation pictures. So much, that they expired. As such, I/we do not have her graduations pictures. Depression is no joke.

Bills got forgot. Grocery shopping was not important. Etc. Very difficult time. Lots of brooding and suffering.

So, H’s clothes and stuff are importantly and not. He needs them, like I needed to pay the electric bill, and yet doesn’t get them.

Now, a crisis is also running from feelings and trying to feel. H also is seeing if you are still sitting on the shelf, waiting and pinning for him. He will manipulate as well. Push as far as he can, just to see how far he can. He will test boundaries. He will try to keep you on the hook.

He will also ignore. Be super secretive and not share his whereabouts or what he is doing or has done.

MLCers exhibit some strange behaviours. Some will keep bits of wrapping paper and string from gifts from us, yet toss us aside. Make arrangements over and over to pick stuff up and never come. My XW’s belongings eventually just got thrown into the garbage. (The wedding dress story is pretty comical.)

And then, there is the drinking, smoking, drugs, fast cars, etc. Trying to relive what they feel is a missed youth. That teenager mentality. Indestructible, will live forever, and will put things off.

Quite a hodgepodge of feelings and behaviours, and numbness and brooding. Some purposeful, most not, most just due to how they feel at that moment.

H makes arrangements because he feels like it in that moment. Later he feels differently. Scared to face you. Ashamed. Or bored, indifferent, guilty, angry, sad, numb.

Depression is ever present. And colors his world a dark grey. Difficult to see anything but grey in a grey world.

Like I said, H sees things much differently than you. His behaviours will have little rationale to them.


Daughter’s response to Dad was good. Very level-headed and emotionally calm. H might just hear her. Although, he is more likely to run from such pressures/control as “seek a therapist”. Time will tell.

It sounds like D21 considering her responses well. After a year, I’d suspect she’s reasonable worked out Dad’s reactions and responses to her conversations. Worked out, and working out, their relationship.

When daughter comes to you - like she did regarding her path about Dad’s suicidal thoughts - validate, reinforce, and gently steer. I’m sure you told her how proud you are of her and how she handled it. I’d add on some knowledge / wisdom of how folks embroiled in emotional turmoil react to too much pressure. Just something for her information, for her to gauge her path is all. And tell her that. You are not trying to alter or control her path, she’s doing really well. Just another tool for the toolbox is all.

Have a great day MG!

D

[DnJ]

it seems to me that most LBS end up doing BETTER.

Absolutely!

Most LBS put in the effort, do the inner work, and end up better. So much better, they’d not go back to the way things were, even if they could.

Forward and better. And just maybe their spouse decides to work and catch up.

[MamaG]

I haven't had my pity party yet but I'm sure once everyone clears out of here next month, I'll have one. I also have 2 dogs btw! I am sure I will be leaning on them for comfort and company!

Yup! Those unwelcomed parties sneak up on us, don't they?! Hold fur babies tight. Mine certainly knew when I needed them and had a way of coming around with their puppy dog eyes. Their unconditional love is something I aspire to. Should you 'party', update us here as a way to vent and we will support you.

I would love to see your H get some therapy. Coming from your D, it might be easier for him to hear. Certainly he will never listen to you if you say it.

I've suggested therapy a few times and the last time I did (in April time frame?) he almost appeared to consider it. I wonder if he was 'acting' to appease me but he paused before responding with 'not yet'. Sometimes I wonder if he thinks D and I are tag-teaming him. She and I are similar in so many ways and our reactions have been similar too. Let H wonder.

One thing that I heard a lot when I was going through cancer was "new normal". Well, this is your new normal. Pretty soon it won't feel new, and it will just feel normal, as hard as that seems right now.

I like this!! Thanks for sharing.

My initial feelings when I see happy couples is that of happiness and warmth. I remember feeling unstoppable and so in love. My secondary thoughts are that of missing H and these thoguhts I could do without. For now, this is my 'new normal'. TY

A quote within a quote within a quote. For some reason I feel like watching Inception today. LOL.

Laughing. If only I knew how to keep this going with syntax!

Both H’s and your views are valid and true. The same truth, just different keyholes/lens looking upon the world.

DnJ - your patience and comforting approach really help with understanding. This line really shed light on differing views of his need to come get things. TY. The additional commentary supported this comment and helped me see your thought.

Life just went grey. Nothing had any joy. Nothing had any urgency. If fact, an especially regrettable fact, there was such a lack of urgency or timeliness, I just keep putting off ordering my daughter’s graduation pictures. So much, that they expired. As such, I/we do not have her graduations pictures. Depression is no joke.

This sentiment I understand. No questions nor confusion. I'm sorry you don't have pics from D's graduation. Depression certainly takes us (LBS and MLC) over.

It sounds like D21 considering her responses well. After a year, I’d suspect she’s reasonable worked out Dad’s reactions and responses to her conversations. Worked out, and working out, their relationship.

Yup. D is making progress. S is beginning to see H for what's really happening. Making fewer excuses for him. Believing less of what H says. S is more like H and allowed himself to deny what was really happening until more recently. GF is helping him see things now that S is more ready. Hopeful that S won't suppress much longer. Time will tell. If nothing else, S knows he's supported...when he's ready to vent/talk/share/accept.

I was on the phone with Sister yesterday. During the call, I happened to walk past a window and saw H's truck drive down the street. This was new to me. I mentioned it to Sister. A second later, I get a text from H that he put a receipt in the mailbox for a doctor's office visit. Hmm...H has been coupling dropping off the receipt with coming to get things over the last 7 weeks. Last night, he changed approach. H opted to drop off the receipt without forewarning and no suggestion to get clothes.

And this is another reason that I wonder if H thinks D and I are tag-teaming. He told D earlier this month that he won't reach back out to her (due to her lack of response and shown interest). And, now I'm seeing a change in approach to me (due to my lack of response and shown interest?). Notice the question mark after the second set of parentheses. H hasn't told me anything. H purely behaved differently at week 8 of consistent 'need' to get some clothes.

Going to dinner tonight with Sister, niece and D to celebrate cancer-free. Excited! Haircut manicure tomorrow. Massage on Friday. Volunteering on Sunday with niece and catching a MLB game with her. I keep on GALing in ways I never would have if H hadn't left R.

[MamaG]

So, I'm seeing movement through the tunnel again. Last Friday was a big day for H - 18 months post BD1. Would love perspective from this family. I've also included a couple questions within my update.

1. It took 2 weeks from D's text, but low and behold, H told D that he saw a doctor and was prescribed meds. Not sure what H was prescribed nor whether he'll follow through with taking them. Knowing H's replay behaviors, I am unsure how this could play out.
Question: How do anti-depressants impact someone in MLC? Alter the marathon?

2. H got a dog.
Question: I've read (somewhere) that getting a dog is a positive sign as H is opening up to showing love and empathy that had been tucked away. Starting with a safe love, such as a dog, who will return love and not judge him is a peak out of the tunnel. Is this true? Could a dog help him?

Question: Or can getting a dog be seen as another external happiness as he continues through replay?

3. H changed his profile pic on social media - the prior photo has been of him and I for years as he doesn't post often. At a closer look, he removed all posts that were dedicated to me - mostly anniversary wishes. I'm still on his thread but no more dedicated posts.

4. Still no PA - yes, not knowing of one haunts me based on most experiences here. I continue to pray that this doesn't change.

5. Last text to come get things was 8/11. After continuous attempts to 'get some things', H has pulled back.

6. I have been dim/dark for going on 4 months now.

7. There's a BIG charity town event this weekend that I've always volunteered at. 90% of our town and surrounding towns attend this event at some point through the long weekend. H expects that I'll volunteer as I've done for years and I fully expect that H will attend and bring his new dog. It's been months since H and I have interacted and it'll be awkward, I'm sure. I plan to look my best and be having a great time to let him see that I'm living my life without him and have accepted that he wants to move on. Some of this will require the 'fake it till I make it' mentality. I will mostly have to be surprised about the dog.
Question: Am I happily surprised or confused surprised? Thoughts?
Question: Any other suggestions for our run in? Do I engage? Ask how he's doing? Open the door at all?

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Question: How do anti-depressants impact someone in MLC? Alter the marathon?

Antidepressants can ease the feelings of depression and thus lessen the symptoms of depression, not cure the underlying reason or cause for the depression. When one partakes less in the symptoms/behaviours, especially destructive behaviours like drinking, drugs, and such, they may be able to progress through their depression better.

Of course, one needs to realize they are depressed or having some manner of emotional troubles, before they’ll reach out. Or have the reaching out be driven by them. Otherwise they are just going along with, and it would be more “I tried” justification for their narrative.

The low energy wallower crisis type, like your H, would be better suited for antidepressants methinks. A high energy vanisher, as my XW, is very assured that they are doing the right thing and nothing is wrong. They need to, are driven to, believe that. That type would neither reach out nor remain on such an antidepressant regime for long.

However, the crisis still needs to complete. It’s unknown, as each person is different, as to if less brooding would allow better progress or not. Less brooding may allow more running behaviours, or it may allow more inner looking. Hard to predict.

The major caution, IMO, would be thinking the crisis is over due to less symptoms. The MLCer feels better, the LBS sees this external difference, yet it is only a delay in the crisis. Time is always required to progress through their depression. There is no way around that. The marathon may be less destructive, yet it still needs to run its entire course.

Question: I've read (somewhere) that getting a dog is a positive sign as H is opening up to showing love and empathy that had been tucked away. Starting with a safe love, such as a dog, who will return love and not judge him is a peak out of the tunnel. Is this true? Could a dog help him?

Question: Or can getting a dog be seen as another external happiness as he continues through replay?

Like most things in life, or crisis or anything really, it depends.

How H treats the dog; why he got him in the first place; H expectations; H’s acceptance of the animal; and so on.

My XW has gone through a few pets. She got three cats, which didn’t accomplish whatever it was she felt she was looking for. She added two more, then having five felines. Her love and affection lasted about a month, and the cats were relegated to the barn.

She then turned to birds. Two budgies, big cage, stand, the whole nine yards. That likewise lasted only months. XW got rid of them in frustration because the wee birds didn’t fly around the room and land on her finger as in a Disney-like fashion. Her and OM spend days corralling the birds from various corners of the house, until birds and all were finally tossed away.

XW did not want, nor accepted the reality of, the responsibility and care for the living creatures.

Plants, on the other hand, XW has an affinity to. Presently she has around 500, yes that is five hundred, plants in the house. Every single spare flat space has a pot and plant on it. The top of the TV, shelves, cupboards, desks, counters, floors, everywhere. The living room has a path to the couch and chair, the rest of the floor is plants. In one corner is a corn stalk that has reached the ceiling. XW wanted to cut a hole in the ceiling for it to continue growing. The spare bedroom is completely plants. The kids wonder how she waters all of them, as there is no path or free floor space in the room. Speaking of watering, she has a “boss plant” that lets her know when other plants need water. I know, sounds crazy. Yet, the plants are thriving.

Of course, it depends. Perhaps H is open to the responsibility of a pet. Feels a connection. Some empathy. Ah, those hidden details. Time will tell. If I were surmising your H’s hidden reasoning, I’d likely place it on the positive end of the spectrum.

Is it a peek out of the tunnel? Positive forward movement? Likely. Will it last or remain? Unknown. Time will tell. Be careful and cautious about seeing what you would like to see. H’s emotions are still a bag of cats. This moment may just be a lull.

3. H changed his profile pic on social media - the prior photo has been of him and I for years as he doesn't post often. At a closer look, he removed all posts that were dedicated to me - mostly anniversary wishes. I'm still on his thread but no more dedicated posts.

My XW tossed aside me and the kids. She lives with OM. Seven years post BD and her active social media has nothing about OM. Still has our wedding pictures up. MLCers do (and don’t do) all manner of stuff.

4. Still no PA - yes, not knowing of one haunts me based on most experiences here. I continue to pray that this doesn't change.

I empathize.

Now, some might be hard to take advice. What/who do you control? Only you. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions.

Fretting and worry will not stop H, if he is going to.

That which one focuses upon gets larger. Focusing on what might happen will continue to foster the haunting within you.

You’ve prayed your desire in this manner. God knows what you’d like not to happen. Let go. Give H, and his journey, to a higher power.

Pray for H not to not do something, rather to do something. To progress. To find peace. Whatever path that might take. Trust God.

Focus on what you can and do control. Your path.

5. Last text to come get things was 8/11. After continuous attempts to 'get some things', H has pulled back.

Yep. Back and forth. They do ping pong about.

Box his stuff up and set it aside. Out of your way.

6. I have been dim/dark for going on 4 months now.

Good.

How do you feel? Do you have a better handle on your emotions? Less being dragged about? Maybe not being dragged about at all? Sleeping better?

7. There's a BIG charity town event this weekend that I've always volunteered at. 90% of our town and surrounding towns attend this event at some point through the long weekend. H expects that I'll volunteer as I've done for years and I fully expect that H will attend and bring his new dog. It's been months since H and I have interacted and it'll be awkward, I'm sure. I plan to look my best and be having a great time to let him see that I'm living my life without him and have accepted that he wants to move on. Some of this will require the 'fake it till I make it' mentality. I will mostly have to be surprised about the dog.
Question: Am I happily surprised or confused surprised? Thoughts?
Question: Any other suggestions for our run in? Do I engage? Ask how he's doing? Open the door at all?

Yes, do volunteer. Do live and love your life and the events that bring you fulfillment.

I fully expect that H will attend and bring his new dog. It's been months since H and I have interacted and it'll be awkward, I'm sure.

Why? Why will it be awkward?

Expectations! Dial those to zero!

If H doesn’t bring his dog and you expect him to, you’ll wonder why.

You’re preparing and pre-destining that things will be awkward.

Big red stop sign. You control you. Stop those thoughts and worry. Influence/alter those feelings.

Go to the event. Let go H. Be you. Enjoy it.

I plan to look my best and be having have a great time. to let him see that I'm living my life without him and have accepted that he wants to move on. Some of this will require the 'fake it till I make it' mentality.

Yes, look your best. Be your best. Have a great time. For you!

H may not even show up, then what? All your efforts are for not? Your volunteering doesn’t matter? Of course not! Your path is not about H, so don’t make it so.

At times we do act as if to override and influence/steer our emotions and reactions. This is fine and perfectly normal. And you might be surprised at how little you need to fake it.

I will mostly have to be surprised about the dog.
Question: Am I happily surprised or confused surprised? Thoughts?

Why surprised? I’m guessing you heard about the dog from sources you don’t want H to know about. I’d just pet the dog and say “Oh, it’s so cute” and leave it at that.

Happily surprised is fine. Confused surprised is not a good idea. It will project judgement and disapproval of H’s choice. After all, he is free to choose as he will. You are living your life forward and detached. Right?

Question: Any other suggestions for our run in? Do I engage? Ask how he's doing? Open the door at all?

If H attends. Be kind and cordial. As you would be to a bank teller or grocery store cashier.

Let him lead the pace of the conversation, if there is any. I’d keep your questions, and answers, to a minimum. Most definitely - no R talks.

Focus on you. On why you are there. The weekend long BIG charity town and surrounding area event. H is not the reason.

Hope the weekend goes great.

D

[MamaG]

I've been staying busy through the summer months, enjoying a good mix of friends and family. I even completed some repairs and household chores. It's been quite an experience since I began detaching.

My greatest gain has been my spiritual and mental growth. I have opportunity here still but feel that my emotional growth has been lacking. I tell myself that I'm detaching and from the outside in, I am. Behind closed doors, I'm a hot mess more often than I'd like to admit. Folks on this platform bear the brunt of it.

DnJ, I thank you so very much for always bringing calm to my storm. You don't have any idea what it means to me.

Your last response shares a bit more about your sitch. WOW! She really did introduce many pets. And, plants!! So strange (to us). Of course, I found myself trying to make sense of your XWs pets and plants. Wish I knew how to make my brain stop processing this way. Why do I need an explanation? understanding? I don't - logically, I know that I don't. Yet, I brainwaves process that way.

When one partakes less in the symptoms/behaviours, especially destructive behaviours like drinking, drugs, and such, they may be able to progress through their depression better.

Of course, one needs to realize they are depressed or having some manner of emotional troubles, before they’ll reach out. Or have the reaching out be driven by them. Otherwise they are just going along with, and it would be more “I tried” justification for their narrative.

The low energy wallower crisis type, like your H, would be better suited for antidepressants methinks.

H admitted to being depressed even before BD. He could feel the depression and that something was off. H couldn't put his finger on 'what' was off. I now know that this was MLC brewing. I am prepared for H not sticking to the ADs but knowing that he's admitted being depressed, I'm hopeful for his sake that this will work for him to feel less down on himself. Ideally, ADs will require less replay behaviors (weed, alcohol) to suppress the turmoil because as we know his replay behaviors only worsen depression. I don't even know what came first...the depression or his attempts to cure depression with depression-inducing substances. Hope that makes sense?

However, the crisis still needs to complete. It’s unknown, as each person is different, as to if less brooding would allow better progress or not. Less brooding may allow more running behaviours, or it may allow more inner looking. Hard to predict.

The major caution, IMO, would be thinking the crisis is over due to less symptoms. The MLCer feels better, the LBS sees this external difference, yet it is only a delay in the crisis. Time is always required to progress through their depression. There is no way around that. The marathon may be less destructive, yet it still needs to run its entire course.

I totally get your explanation that the crisis still needs to be completed and it's unclear the impact on the marathon length. This is what I expected your response to be. I'll take 'less destructive'.

As for the dog, H lost his dog as kid when she ran into the street. And, as one of his complaints at BD, he was upset that I gave up our first dog and has no recollection that we discussed the decision at length before making a decision together - rewriting of history. This was 25 years ago. I'm beginning to wonder if losing his pet as a kid has something to do with this trauma. Time will tell. Possibly, as you allude, hidden details.

Of course, it depends. Perhaps H is open to the responsibility of a pet. Feels a connection. Some empathy. Ah, those hidden details. Time will tell. If I were surmising your H’s hidden reasoning, I’d likely place it on the positive end of the spectrum.

When you said, "positive end of spectrum" are you surmising that he may be peaking and feeling empathy? Companion to share love? I don't want to misinterpret.

My XW tossed aside me and the kids. She lives with OM. Seven years post BD and her active social media has nothing about OM. Still has our wedding pictures up. MLCers do (and don’t do) all manner of stuff.

I just can't understand...and I know that's the point. They aren't logically thinking. I'm not overthinking the FB pic change. Rather, I brought it up get vets thoughts. Say no more.

That which one focuses upon gets larger. Focusing on what might happen will continue to foster the haunting within you.

Good reminder. I know yet forget so often. TY

How do you feel? Do you have a better handle on your emotions? Less being dragged about? Maybe not being dragged about at all? Sleeping better?

My emotions are no longer in reaction/response to H's actions/comments - well, there also are none coming my way lately. I feel myself having emotional outbursts for different reasons or maybe from different drivers.

I look forward to fewer of these moments. I can see that there has been a subtle change in frequency already.

I admit to myself that which I'm feeling in the moment (Right now, I am sad bc...) and it helps in getting through it. I accept the feelings and I move along.

What gets me is that I miss H's company, jokes, embrace, comfort...etc. and these thoughts slap me in the face all too often. Still.

I am sleeping MUCH better - that's a win.

Having a greater understanding of the process and reading through examples of crazy things MLCers do/don't do has me less surprised when I hear/see some of H's specifics. My questions to this platform sometimes are for confirmation of my thoughts. I don't have as strong emotions in this space.

Fears are still a thing I need to work on. Football season is upon us. H will be occupied with work and football now. Will he ever reach back out? This is the conversation I need to work through....and I am. You've clarified fear in the past. I find myself reminding myself but get stuck.

Thanks for direction on how I respond to H's attendance and interaction this weekend. I also expect to answer the question, "what's going on with you and H" a few times. I know...I know. Expectations. Fears.

I will have a great time with the event - to some degree it's like a HS reunion as everyone congregates at the event. I will laugh and enjoy myself...and all for a good cause.

MG

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

I’m glad to see you completed some repairs, upgrades, and upkeep to the homestead.

My greatest gain has been my spiritual and mental growth. I have opportunity here still but feel that my emotional growth has been lacking. I tell myself that I'm detaching and from the outside in, I am. Behind closed doors, I'm a hot mess more often than I'd like to admit. Folks on this platform bear the brunt of it.

Be gentle on yourself. Like the house upkeep and upgrades it takes time. You are making progress; an excellent thing. Any step, no matter how small, is infinitely further than zero. And all those wee steps accumulate. All journeys are made of many small steps.

Yes, one does get a handle on their mental self first. After all, that’s what we control. Emotions are then influenced through thoughts, actions, and reactions.

It’s perfectly normal to still be a hot mess every once in a while. I’m sure those times are far less than there were. If you look at it, the frequency and amplitude of your emotions have lessened. Right? And likely doesn’t last as long either. Such is grief. Such is the journey.

When you said, "positive end of spectrum" are you surmising that he may be peaking and feeling empathy? Companion to share love? I don't want to misinterpret.

Yes, I see H leaning that way. With what you’ve shared, I see H more caring for and about the dog, and less using the dog.

As for the dog, H lost his dog as kid when she ran into the street. And, as one of his complaints at BD, he was upset that I gave up our first dog and has no recollection that we discussed the decision at length before making a decision together - rewriting of history. This was 25 years ago. I'm beginning to wonder if losing his pet as a kid has something to do with this trauma. Time will tell. Possibly, as you allude, hidden details.

Ah. Interesting.

Losing our first pet is heartbreaking. Normal. Yet heartbreaking. And usually occurs for one in their childhood. Their parents then guiding them through the slew of emotions and pain they experience.

If something went awry when H was a child. Say blamed by a person in authority, or even by himself, for the death of his beloved dog; that could leave quite a wound. Or having little to no guidance on how to grieve and feel that loss would allow unrealized and unrecognized and unreconciled pain(s) and trauma(s) to become buried. Silently buried and festering for years. Until the pain will remain buried no more.

A child has immature coping mechanisms. Trauma and/or lack of guidance/mentoring can derail/stunt their emotional growth. A crisis drags the MLCer back in time, from where and when they need to grow up from.

My emotions are no longer in reaction/response to H's actions/comments - well, there also are none coming my way lately. I feel myself having emotional outbursts for different reasons or maybe from different drivers.

Follow the sting. This is your inner work. Discover you, while H is not the trigger for your feelings. Discover what/why is triggering you. Make peace with it, with you, with your past, with your grief. It’s part of the journey to your acceptance.

I admit to myself that which I'm feeling in the moment (Right now, I am sad bc...) and it helps in getting through it. I accept the feelings and I move along.

Very good.

Feel your feelings and let them wash over you.

What gets me is that I miss H's company, jokes, embrace, comfort...etc. and these thoughts slap me in the face all too often. Still.

Yep.

I found I eventually made peace with it. We had 3 decades together. Her company, jokes, embrace, and such. 30 years! I was that fortunate!

More focusing on what I have than what is lost. Acceptance.

I am sleeping MUCH better - that's a win.

Absolutely! Nice to hear. A good night’s sleep is so beneficial.

Having a greater understanding of the process and reading through examples of crazy things MLCers do/don't do has me less surprised when I hear/see some of H's specifics. My questions to this platform sometimes are for confirmation of my thoughts. I don't have as strong emotions in this space.

MLC is foreign territory. It’s good to hear that H’s behaviours are not as surprising as they once were. We all require a certain level of understanding.

How is/was the weekend event?

D