Detaching & setting boundaries w/ clingy boomerang

[MamaG]

Hello everyone!

I was asked to start a new thread and so here I am. My last thread was in newcomers but I'm pretty confident that my H is going through MLC. For this reason, my next thread is listed under MLC forum.

Here is a link to my last thread: https://www.divorcebusting.com/foru...ain=63684&Number=2950112#Post2950112


In summary, due to medical reasons and my reluctance to confront my fears, I have not been detaching as much as I should have been. From BD2 in Sept 2023 to mid-May 2024, H has taken me to medical appts and has been coming in and out of our marriage and marital home as will - H moved out in Dec 2023. I did the begging/pleading and such through Feb 2024 at which point I discovered this forum and learned about MLC. My behaviors towards H shifted a bit (less pursuing/no ILU/less touchy) in Feb and I began to let H lead our interactions with some nudging. H kept coming around and 'trying to figure himself out'. I allowed it.

For the last 5 weeks, I have not responded nor acknowledged H's texts unless a question is asked. I wait on my response. I provided minimal detail.

I had major surgery mid-May and rec'd 6 texts from H about my recovery between 5/22 and 6/7. I only provided responses like, "things are looking up" - very general but kind. On 6/4, I rec'd another text from H offering to complete a household chore to which I let H know that I had already asked someone to do it for me. On 6/7, to cut off the touch-n-goes (I suspect that is what H is doing), I responded with 'back to 100%'. Things went quiet for 9 days until I sent a Happy Father's Day text which he acknowledged. On 6/19, H sent a text with no questions and therefore I didn't acknowledge nor respond to. Today, I get a text that H needs to get some things from the house this weekend. I don't know what H wants to take but I definitely get triggered with H coming to take things from our marital home. I want to stop this behavior and as such have considered packing up H's closet for him to come and get. This of course is assuming that it's clothes H wants. (Personally I think H is coming to see how things are going over here.)

Since mid-May, I have not initiated any contact (except HFD text). 'm really trying to detach and go NC - for my own good. I'm struggling with what NC means and how to respond to H about his 'need' to come to the house for more things?

Please help me with a response as I've not been setting boundaries at all and this may be the first H gets from me in text. It is lengthy and I'm trying to not come across angry nor with ultimatums. I'd like to set a stage/boundary.

Draft to H's text that he wants to come to the house this weekend to grab things:

You chose to leave our home in December - it's been 6+ months and time for you to take all your personal belongings so that you aren't missing anything. For your convenience, I have packed it all up for you to grab. As for marital assets, I don't appreciate you treating our home like a shopping center. I have been logging marital belongings that you continue to move down the street to your chosen residence so that you can have the conveniences of our things in your new lifestyle and fantasy life.

I understand that this is hurting both of us, but you are able to change your feelings. You choose everything you think and do. Each of us is responsible for each of our own choices. Abandoning our house was your choice. Coming in and out of it is not tolerable as you would not appreciate me going to your residence for things.

I imagine you have a lot on your mind right now. I want to let you know that if you want to talk to me about whatever is on your mind, I'd be more than happy to listen to you.

[RegretfulLA]

I think your response is really strong and sets good boundaries. You have let him know your feelings and are telling him in no uncertain terms that moving out means moving out. This was his choice, now he must live with it.

I hope the DB'ing is getting a little easier for you. You have done a great job so far. All these stressful events seem to pile on top of each other (illness + MLC)... I sometimes think the Universe does that on purpose.

The hardest part of all this is getting to the place where you truly are zen about it - comfortable enough in your own skin to move on and not harbor any ill will. For me, that's the goal, but it's a long scary path.

I'm glad we have this site where we can help each other and provide encouragement.

[MamaG]

Thank you RegretfulLA for weighing in on my drafted text. With the weekend upon us before I had seen your response, I went with a safe & short response instead of chancing my 'unapproved' draft in my post.

Late morning, I responded to H with a question. I asked what H needed to come get so that I'd have it ready - this would ensure that H wouldn't come into the house to access anything else nor invade my privacy. Interestingly, rather than respond with needed items, H told me he would come tomorrow and would let me know (I assume he'd let me know when). In H's text, I can hear his need to control the situation and assuming that I'm sitting on a rocking chair waiting for him to come home. Yep, still in MLC.

Plot twist.... I quickly informed H that tomorrow doesn't work (and don't plan to lose sleep over it). It's been 39 days since we've seen each other (longest period of time EVER) and I'm remaining dedicated to not reaching out to him - DBing. I also felt it interesting that H didn't provide me with what he is looking to come get....something tells me it's another touch-n-go attempt. And, I'm getting better at calling BS on his attempts.

The good news is that depending upon how follow-up texts go this week (around stopping by), I may have the opportunity to send a like message to him. Anyone else have thoughts on the response and my attempt at a boundary for this clingy boomerang in my life?

H did push D this past week in an attempt to win her over - sent 3 texts, a request for a call and a quick call out to her in the span of 30 minutes. This is on the heals of going a week without reaching out at all. H wanted to know why D doesn't respond to his texts nor reach out to him. D contemplated whether to let H have it or just continue to ignore. In the end, D did a great job of informing H how he makes her feel, that she is in therapy and on meds due to the last 9 months (BD2). She told H that he doesn't share any believable info when he reaches out, that he hasn't made any progress and suggested that perhaps it is time to get into therapy. Of course, as expected, H had an agenda (touch-n-go? or Awakening?), ignored her request to go to therapy and asked her to stay in touch because H REACHES OUT WHEN HE'S HAVING A BAD DAY AND IS LOOKING FOR HER TO BRIGHTEN HIS DAY. Yep, still in MLC. I am proud of her and hope that both my kids, adults as they may be, make it through without too many bruises. Wish I could shelter them for this craziness.

[Valeska19]

M,
When it comes to responding to the WAS - less is more... so let's go ahead and delete that short story you plan on sending him.

From there - it's not about asking us what to do - it's about figuring out what YOU want and to communicate it to him. Here are some good questions to ask yourself.

1. Are you comfortable seeing your H in the house with you there? or how about at all?
2. Do you feel comfortable with H having access to everything in the home and having the free-will to take it?

Here are two hard truths.
One - anything your H "needs" - he could, in theory, buy. Unless its medication or perhaps something given down by his family... he doesn't really need anything from the house now. He can wait until mediation, divorce, reconciliation...etc.

The second is that most likely your H will have a negative response to what you say. This is okay and perfectly normal. You are putting yourself first. Change is hard and will make BOTH of you uncomfortable. Putting yourself gets easier the more you do it... so practice, practice, practice

Once you figure out what is best for YOU, you communicate it very politely, short, and direct. Think of a business deal. For example: If you don't want him in the house or going through everything - your response could be.

"H - Please send a list of what you need and I'll be happy to put in the garage and to schedule a time when you can come pick it up."

If he gets mad... so be it. If he guilt trips you... let it be water off a ducks back. Don't walk on eggshells around him. Understand that this is his choice so it comes with certain consequences. Your job is to make sure he's not protected from those consequences. Not out of anger, rather detachment. Not out of punishment, but out of love.

We all experience consequences... good and bad. It's how we learn and grow. It's how we determine what we want in life, what we need, and who we want to share with.

It's okay you let your H face the consequences of his actions.

[Ready2Change]

"H - Please send a list of what you need and I'll be happy to put in the garage and to schedule a time when you can come pick it up."

THIS!

Remove all of your emotional response when dealing with him. (Go ahead and feel it and express it away from him.)

Have you changed the locks?

[DnJ]

Hello MG

V is spot on.

I'm struggling with what NC means and how to respond to H about his 'need' to come to the house for more things?

Please help me with a response as I've not been setting boundaries at all and this may be the first H gets from me in text. It is lengthy and I'm trying to not come across angry nor with ultimatums. I'd like to set a stage/boundary.

I do agree with you, part of H’s need to come over is likely to see how things are going (or not going) without him.

Be detached in your “necessary” responses to H. Time and space. H moved out. Let him feel that.

Give V’s questions some good thought. Legally you might not be able to prevent H from coming over. Or maybe you can. Or maybe you can just be less welcoming.

Boundaries are for disrespectful behaviour. And the enforcement of the boundary is your premeditated action. For example, if H came over to get things. And then he starts yelling/swearing at you. The boundary is - do not swear at me. The rock solid enforcement is you leaving the room. Leaving him to his temper tantrum.

Late morning, I responded to H with a question. I asked what H needed to come get so that I'd have it ready - this would ensure that H wouldn't come into the house to access anything else nor invade my privacy.

Nicely done. I like the 180 flip on this. You agreed to him taking stuff. That likely set him back a bit, as I bet he didn’t figure you’d do that.

Interestingly, rather than respond with needed items, H told me he would come tomorrow and would let me know (I assume he'd let me know when). In H's text, I can hear his need to control the situation and assuming that I'm sitting on a rocking chair waiting for him to come home. Yep, still in MLC.

Plot twist.... I quickly informed H that tomorrow doesn't work (and don't plan to lose sleep over it).

Again, nicely done.

No eggshells.

It's been 39 days since we've seen each other (longest period of time EVER) and I'm remaining dedicated to not reaching out to him - DBing. I also felt it interesting that H didn't provide me with what he is looking to come get....something tells me it's another touch-n-go attempt. And, I'm getting better at calling BS on his attempts.

Yep. After all these months it unlikely H is looking to acquire anything that he needed.

The good news is that depending upon how follow-up texts go this week (around stopping by), I may have the opportunity to send a like message to him. Anyone else have thoughts on the response and my attempt at a boundary for this clingy boomerang in my life?

H moved out in December. Perhaps you don’t want his clothes in your closet anymore. Maybe you box up his stuff and store it in the garage. H can take the stuff or not.

You chose to leave our home in December - it's been 6+ months and time for you to take all your personal belongings so that you aren't missing anything. For your convenience, I have packed it all up for you to grab. As for marital assets, I don't appreciate you treating our home like a shopping center. I have been logging marital belongings that you continue to move down the street to your chosen residence so that you can have the conveniences of our things in your new lifestyle and fantasy life.

You don’t send this text. You merely do it.

If/when H comes by looking for his stuff, oh it’s out in the garage. Have it neatly packed and labelled to ensure timely pick up and less room for blaming and such.

As you said, you aren’t sitting in the rocking chair pinning away for him. I’d pack up and store his belongings.

D

[MamaG]

When it comes to responding to the WAS - less is more... so let's go ahead and delete that short story you plan on sending him.

I laughed out loud. TY for that. I let the better of my emotions come out, don't I? Shorter it is.

1. Are you comfortable seeing your H in the house with you there? or how about at all?
2. Do you feel comfortable with H having access to everything in the home and having the free-will to take it?

I know what I want - but I don't know what words to say it in...and clearly how much of a novel to say. lol

I have been comfortable with H stopping in if H only comes for the noted item, says hello and then is on his way. Unfortunately, lately, H's sneaky taking of other items has gotten old and while I've not said anything (acted as if I didn't notice), my D did and that's when I knew that it's something I need to address. And, to be honest, I'm tired of this being the reason to come over. H certainly 'checks things out' and gets a lay of the land. This is how it became obvious that this is H's cycle. Need something-stop in for it and check things out-temp check and leave for x amount of time. I'm no longer interested. So to answer your question, I don't want H coming by for items and using the house as his.....I don't stop at his for items.

Have you changed the locks?

Legally, the house is both of ours. Changing the locks isn't something I have done...and he still has garage door openers too. Thankfully, H always informs me in advance that he's coming. Haven't had an issue to date.

Please send a list of what you need and I'll be happy to put in the garage and to schedule a time when you can come pick it up.

DnJ, Ready2Change, Valeska19, as you all agree, I LOVE THIS and it'll be my response. I haven't packed up his closet but will be doing that. Sigh

Be detached in your “necessary” responses to H. Time and space. H moved out. Let him feel that.

Only respond if there's a question. Today, I rec'd a 'business' question from him in which I quickly responded with "No". He then responded with an explanation. No question=no response. Questions provide short answers many hours later. I'm trying...and it is so hard for me to do this. I do it on faith that this is the right approach. Still feel some eggshells, but I march on.

I know H is feeling it based on his persistent pursuing of D on Friday.

Boundaries are for disrespectful behaviour. And the enforcement of the boundary is your premeditated action. For example, if H came over to get things. And then he starts yelling/swearing at you. The boundary is - do not swear at me. The rock solid enforcement is you leaving the room. Leaving him to his temper tantrum.

I need a lot of practice with boundaries. I've NEVER set boundaries with H. This is a huge 180 for me. I realize this now. In theory, I know what one is but I don't have any idea how to enact. And, if I was to excuse the fact that H fired me as his wife, H doesn't monster or disrespect me. H merely is clingy and wants me on a rocking chair (love this analogy, can you tell?). I'm pretty convinced H wants to return home and has no idea how to go about it....well, if he can figure out how to pack boxes one way, he can figure out how to return home should he (and I) want him to.

I've been reading up a lot on dismissive avoidant behaviors...as well as fearful avoidant (likely my style) and trying to learn how to my adjustments on my end. I need to make some changes.....for me...and for clingy boomerang or someone else.

On a personal note, I did some hard work of clearing out pricker bushes, bittersweet weeds and other greenery along the property border over the last 2 weeks. It took hours - my gym pass, I suppose. Well, it felt good to have accomplished this (H would typically clear a bit each week to keep up with it)...until I woke up this morning to poison ivy rash all over my arms. Boy is it itchy and every time I look at my arms, I get angry at H. Even if it isn't H's fault, it is something he always took care of so he's being blamed and could've driven some of my not so nice emotions this weekend.

Also, D moved into her apartment near the university. After Friday's pursuing of the D, I assumed H would've made it a point to help her move today. Well, he didn't. Perhaps H forgot. D was a bit disappointed. Sigh

Thank you all for keeping me honest and emotionless in response. Now I build up the courage to pack H up (using the boxes emptied from D's move)!

[Valeska19]

I need a lot of practice with boundaries. I've NEVER set boundaries with H. This is a huge 180 for me. I realize this now. In theory, I know what one is but I don't have any idea how to enact. And, if I was to excuse the fact that H fired me as his wife, H doesn't monster or disrespect me. H merely is clingy and wants me on a rocking chair (love this analogy, can you tell?). I'm pretty convinced H wants to return home and has no idea how to go about it....well, if he can figure out how to pack boxes one way, he can figure out how to return home should he (and I) want him to.

I totally understand this. Boundaries are very difficult for me too. It started from childhood and something I have taken into my adulthood. Here are some things that have worked for me.

1. I allow the process of setting boundaries to be messy. It's new so you aren't going to say or do the "right" thing all the time. That's okay. The biggest win is that you realized what was important to you and you expressed it to the other person when they violated it. And let's say you are wrong. Maybe you allowed something that later you realize doesn't actually work for you. No problem - just go back and change it to what works. Don't allow perfection to get in the way. This is about LEARNING to care for yourself.

2. FACT - Boundaries to an emotionally immature person will p!ss them off, so don't be surprised when it does. Expect your H to escalate in childish behavior. Expect him to guilt trip you, remind you of what you did wrong... yet also prepare yourself for him to try and "nice" his way to get what he wants. Maybe tell you how great you are or how his feelings changed about a certain topic. It's very important that you don't get persuaded by his words. What's important is changed behavior.

For example: The statement above states that you are convinced your husband wants to come home? What makes you believe that? What are you seeing that demonstrates he wants to be a spouse to you versus wanting to come home because it's easier for him?

The answer to knowing the difference... setting boundaries. Someone who wants to do the work, will end up respecting your boundaries. Someone who wants his own way - will find a way to avoid respecting your boundaries.

3. Have a support system in place. Whether that's a boundary buddy that you can talk to, or core belief homework that you can journal to - you are going to need support to not only deal with your H's behavior... but yours as well. Contrary to belief - boundaries don't feel good at first when you set them. You are going to feel worse before you feel better. You are gonna experience the storm before the calm. This is a truth I wish self help books would be honest about. You were taught to not set boundaries because there was punishment attached. Now - you will have to tolerate someone trying to punish you when you set them... what a gut punch.

4. Keep grounded in reality. Your H chose this. Any consequences, hardships, feelings are due to his own making. When you start absorbing any of his stuff as "your fault" - try to detach from the situation. Look at yourself as a friend and say "What would I say to my friend in a time like this". Or "if this guy wasn't my H - would I put up with this treatment".

Do your best to not engage with your H. Your no response to his explanation email was perfect. Little things like that will build over time.

I know its hard to believe you are doing the right approach. Especially because sometimes the right thing can mean losing people in life. But keep at it. There will be a shift and you will know you are doing right approach... because it's the right approach for YOU and that approach will bring you peace.

Hang in there. You are making good progress!

[MamaG]

Valeska19 - hope you're doing well! It's a gut punch (several gut punches) to read your words and realize how you're right. You make sound points and make obvious observations. Love really is blind, isn't it?

For example: The statement above states that you are convinced your husband wants to come home? What makes you believe that? What are you seeing that demonstrates he wants to be a spouse to you versus wanting to come home because it's easier for him?

The answer to knowing the difference... setting boundaries. Someone who wants to do the work, will end up respecting your boundaries. Someone who wants his own way - will find a way to avoid respecting your boundaries.

It's easier to think that H wants to come home rather than it would be easier. Yet, as I reflect, I can see your point. H hasn't done much to show that he wants to come home or that he even thinks about me much. Other than the empty texts, I get nothing. What hurts the most is how H has been no more than an uber driver for my medical appts. If anything, H's action show that he doesn't care nor wants to come home. I guess it's more a feeling based on how H looks at me and is kind in the few moments we have...maybe I'm just seeing/hearing what I want to see/hear. Ugh - another gut punch.

Question...based on his cycling history, H will reach back out for some item that he needs. I'll respond with, "Please send a list of what you need and I'll be happy to put in the garage and to schedule a time when you can come pick it up." At which point, we'll set up a time/date for H to come to grab things and he'll face the pile I've packed up.

If H doesn't take his belongings, do I continue to store them, do I drop them off to him, bring them to a storage unit & give him a key? What do I do with packed belongings that he'll likely not take with him? I imagine that he'll be emotionally driven to 'escape and avoid' without his belongings. And, it'll feel like he's losing control?

[MamaG]

You've all been so helpful with my first boundary...waiting on his text to come by this week so that I can set the very 1st one! Sad and excited. ugh

Separately, I'm looking to set a 'business' boundary and would love your insight....you seem to have better (and shorter) ways to message H.

In summary, H doesn't fund our joint marital acct which is near depleted. Verbally, H agreed to fund acct with weekly payments of X and we agreed to not touch our other funds bc funding with X would keep us fully allocated for the year. I REALLY don't want him to suggest that we start tapping the nest egg with my drafted message. I want to be certain that the message I send is in writing, informs him of our finances and requests confirmation that H will or will not fund the acct for further expenses. Note, H is able to access the acct to see all transactions...even though he can't be bothered to do so....perhaps my message should note this....

Marriages in my state can be filed as Fault or No-fault. I'm not saying that I'm looking to file but if it comes to a filing, I need evidence/documentation.

Here's my draft and open to your thoughts. Keep in mind that I've really turned the tables on him in a short 6 weeks - not reaching out to him, short and uninformative responses, declined offers to 'fix' things at house, been less reachable. It's a short window in which I'm applying numerous 180s (hope I'm not being impulsive nor destructive like I accuse him of doing in Sept).

Please let me know your thoughts on this message:

As you know, you have not contributed to our acct to support marital expenses since Feb 2024.

In March, I asked you why you stopped funding our acct for marital expenses and you told me that you didn't know how to send money to two different banks. At the time, you agreed that you'd look into reinstating weekly payments to our acct. To date, you have not.

I later informed you in May that I forecasted our acct would no longer support our expenses after July.

Do you plan to reinstate contributions to our acct in order to fund household and family expenses? As you know, RE taxes are coming due as well as D's college tuition - both of which are large expenses that our account cannot support.