MLC Hubby wants to move out

[RegretfulLA]

Hello friends,
I have some updates and would love people's feedback!

First of all, yesterday was my birthday! I totally GAL'd, and planned it all in advance because I knew that H would withdraw. I went to a gorgeous pool next to the beach (even though the weather was cloudy), and then I went to see comedy with my friend. I bought the gift that I would have asked H for (a nice pair of earrings) and when other people asked me what I wanted, I told them what I actually wanted. I really enjoyed my day!

As expected, H was distant. When we woke up, he said happy birthday in almost an obligatory way - like, when your mom says "Wish Grandma Happy Birthday" and you don't really want to. Then he goes "The big 5-4". I just said thanks. He went to his office in our back house and I left to go the beach without telling anyone. He and the boys had left cards for me and I just ignored them until I got back around 5 pm.

I came home and showered and by the time I was out of the shower, H was back in the house watching TV in the living room. I came downstairs and went into the kitchen, which is behind our living room. I know he could hear that I was in the kitchen but he didn't move, or say anything, or even acknowledge my presence. Then I opened his card.

The card said:
I know this is a difficult time. I want you to know I love and appreciate you and always will. Happy Birthday! I hope it's a fun day. Love, H.

I say, "actions speak louder than words" - maybe he thinks that he loves and appreciates me, but he sure does not show it. As my sister said, "He's a mess."

I went out with my friend. At no point did H ask me what I was doing, where I was going, who I was going with or how my night was. But he did say "have fun" as I was leaving. I didn't offer up this information either. When I got home H was in bed with lights off but awake (no snoring... dead giveaway). I said nothing.

This morning I asked H a question about work just to open up the dialog and then he told me that he took $100K out of his retirement account so that he can move out without disturbing the household finances.

Well, obviously he has thought about this a lot and I was pretty much speechless.

I manage all the money in the household and we operate with a joint account. H makes twice my salary and we are deeply in debt. I have made it my goal this year to address that instead of punting like we have done for years thinking that next year there would be more money. (Ok, to be fair, there were a couple years when we really thought there was going to be more money since the company H worked for had an IPO... unfortunately that did not work out as planned). I have been very serious about our money this year.

H said he did this because he respects and appreciates what I am trying to do regarding getting us out of debt. That was nice to hear, especially since he pushed back on sticking to a budget for a long time, but the fact that he took that distribution from his retirement isn't exactly encouraging. He said he would continue to funnel his salary into the joint account and use the distribution to pay for rent and everything that would come from maintaining a separate household. For the record, I do not worry that H will "raid" our account or do anything like that.

I told him if he wants to move out and then come back (which seems to be his plan), a LOT would have to change while he's gone. He acknowledged that and agreed. He seems to think that he needs this time and space to "improve our relationship." I think that he needs to test the theory that the grass is not greener.

He does not seem to want D, but I think I do, at least right now. We have been married for 23 years and has been a roller coaster since year 8 and I am ready to get off. If money were not an issue, I think I would not want him to come back. He is depressed and repressed and he has put me through the ringer time and time again. This is not the first birthday or special occasion where he completely ignored me (although I was prepared this time). I am over it. No one deserves to be treated like that.

Although this feels scary, I think I will be glad to have him gone, at least for a while.

[RegretfulLA]

Also, now that H has a plan, he is insisting that we tell S18 and S20. I say S18 and S20 do not need to be involved right now. H wants to move out as soon as possible, but I think that it's better to let S18 and S20 have a nice summer and not interrupt it while they are at home. If this happens while they are at college, they don't need to watch Dad walk out the door. H does not want to wait until October to move out, but I think that's unfair to the boys.

H disagrees. H thinks it would be better to tell them in person so they can get support.

I remember when my own parents got D and it's very hard to watch your father leave, even if he's not going far. I would like them to be a little more removed from this when it happens.

What does the community think?

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

Happy Birthday!

I’m glad to see you made it a great day. Good for you! A pool, some nice earrings, and sincere friends.

I got asked to participate in a craft fair at the end of the month. I even got inspired to send my headshots to a modeling agency specifically for 50+ women with grey hair. (Yes, I fit that bill). One of the women at the party yesterday is a grey hair model now and she loves it. I checked out the website and these are just ordinary women - some beautiful, some not. Some skinny, some not. Some tall, some not. WHY NOT?

Excellent!


H’s behaviour and lack of acknowledgment and conversation towards your birthday certainly suggests how self consumed he is. His the day after announcing that he has withdrawn $100K so he can move out confirms it. (IMO)

I agree with your sister, H is a mess!

H makes twice my salary and we are deeply in debt. I have made it my goal this year to address that instead of punting like we have done for years thinking that next year there would be more money.

I think you are going to get to address your goal in short order.

H said he did this because he respects and appreciates what I am trying to do regarding getting us out of debt. That was nice to hear, especially since he pushed back on sticking to a budget for a long time, but the fact that he took that distribution from his retirement isn't exactly encouraging. He said he would continue to funnel his salary into the joint account and use the distribution to pay for rent and everything that would come from maintaining a separate household.

As you wisely said, actions speak louder than words.

H says he appreciates what you are trying to do regarding the debt. Notice: what “you” are trying to do, not what “we” are trying to do.

So, H’s nice words aside, what are his actions? Take out a hundred thousand bucks and move out. WTF? Yep, not very encouraging to correcting your debt or financial progression.

It looks like H’s plan is ill-conceived. MLCers are driven by their emotions. Their decisions and actions are not based on logic and reason.

H makes twice your salary. He promises - ah, more words. Believe none of what they say, and only fall of what they do. He promises to keep depositing into the joint account, and yet somehow fund a second residence and his life. And there are kids, college, and such yet to account for. And you!

His double your salary along with your’s didn’t get you two moving out of the red. How is another household and all the expenses going to help? Even if his “is the grass greener” experiment goes well, he (and you) is $100K further in debt.

I do not worry that H will "raid" our account or do anything like that.

My dear, H just did raid the accounts!

I told him if he wants to move out and then come back (which seems to be his plan), a LOT would have to change while he's gone. He acknowledged that and agreed. He seems to think that he needs this time and space to "improve our relationship." I think that he needs to test the theory that the grass is not greener.

You are correct, H likely needs to test if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Of course, grass is greenest where one waters it.

So, if H invests into his new life, in his eyes, where is the grass going to grow? Short term, H will be incorrectly confirming his ill-conceived feeling-based plan.

It takes a long time for these lost souls to realize that family and love doesn’t just grow on trees, or found on any random street corner. It takes effort and investment and sacrifice and commitment and responsibility and accountability and such. MLCers are running from that stuff.

Also, now that H has a plan, he is insisting that we tell S18 and S20. I say S18 and S20 do not need to be involved right now. H wants to move out as soon as possible, but I think that it's better to let S18 and S20 have a nice summer and not interrupt it while they are at home. If this happens while they are at college, they don't need to watch Dad walk out the door. H does not want to wait until October to move out, but I think that's unfair to the boys.

Regarding H’s plan. Let him do the heavy-lifting. Do not place boulders on his path. Yet don’t pave it in gold either. If H is wanting out, remove all pressure and let him go.

If H does follow through with his moving as soon as possible intent, I’d tell the boys right away as well. Yes, H’s decision is unfair, and it won’t become any more palatable for the boys just because they are back in college. My opinion, it would be better for them to have the summer to feel, vent, grieve, and such. Heck, being at home, nearby, will allow them to better tell (blast) Dad how they feel.


R, speak with a lawyer. ASAP! Get information. Learn your rights and what your options are. Protect your finances. You have a lot of life ahead of you. You need to be able to fund it. And you certainly don’t need H’s new debt load added to your burden.

If you need financial protection or security - get it! You can still DB. You can still stand. Treat the business side business-like.

D

[MamaG]

Happy birthday! I'm so happy that you handled and planned your day as you did - even with the gifts! My big 50 is later this year and you've inspired me. TY

Timing is never good for the kiddos. My H bomb dropped for the second time in Sept of last year. This was the first the kids learned - BD1 was kept from them quite easily as H was not monstering nor running. Anyway, I can tell you that I agree with DnJ on timing. It may be best to allow them to process, grieve, release emotions before going to school. In my sitch, S had just graduated from the university and had a really hard time the first 4 months of employment, making it difficult for a positive first impression - he's mostly recovered and doing well. D was beginning a semester at the university and couldn't concentrate, breath, eat. She missed assignments, classes, sleep, etc. Some of it is D's personality but I guess I'm saying we just don't know how they'll respond to such information/news. D enrolled in therapy and is still medicating for her anxiety despite it being nearly a year.

It'll be hard on them either way - we know this. {{{Hugs}}} I recommend that you and H give them the comfort of home (rather than a dorm and roommate) to express themselves in private and with you, as they wish.

And as for the withdrawal - ugh. L talks aren't fun but good to be informed and aware.

[RegretfulLA]

Thank you Mama! I appreciate the perspective, and having thought about it more, I agree on timing. H had a little "furnished apartment sticker shock" so no move imminent, but S20 is going back August 25, so we have to tell them pretty soon. This is going to suck and it's so unfair to them. But, the die has been cast.

The one sort of silver lining in all this is that I'm finally able to point out to H where he's been wrong in his thinking. Previously I would fear some sort of repercussion like him shutting me out but since I guess I'm already shut out it doesn't matter now. The thing is, H never spoke to me about ANY of his issues... he just "assumed"... and we all know what happens when we assume - we end up $100K (+ taxes) poorer. If only he'd said something before making this decision, he might have been able to see how HIS behavior contributed to our dynamic.

[RegretfulLA]

DnJ:

H’s behaviour and lack of acknowledgment and conversation towards your birthday certainly suggests how self consumed he is. His the day after announcing that he has withdrawn $100K so he can move out confirms it. (IMO)

.

I'm getting more of a guilt read here. He knows it was my birthday, he gave me a card! And purposely avoided me all day. He just didn't want to face me and all his shame about what he has done.

H says he appreciates what you are trying to do regarding the debt. Notice: what “you” are trying to do, not what “we” are trying to do.

Yep, what *I* am trying to do. In this R, there isn't much "we." H has no part in the finances and that's fine. Everyone is bad at something and he's horrible at managing money. I said "I" because I am managing the process. He's on board for the most part, and I think he sees that $100K as not counting because it's from his retirement account. More punting. "Who knows what's going to happen with the stock market. It could go to zero. I might not make it to retirement" etc. Excuses!!! And lame ones to boot. It's an idiotic decision which in and of itself has increased the likelihood that I will want to initiate D.

H makes twice your salary. He promises - ah, more words. Believe none of what they say, and only fall of what they do. He promises to keep depositing into the joint account, and yet somehow fund a second residence and his life. And there are kids, college, and such yet to account for. And you!

His double your salary along with your’s didn’t get you two moving out of the red. How is another household and all the expenses going to help? Even if his “is the grass greener” experiment goes well, he (and you) is $100K further in debt.

Well - a couple things here. First of all, money has always been an issue. I am a saver, he is a spender, and - shocker - he's kind of immature sometimes and wants what he wants. He's not much for compromise. H had to take a 20% salary cut recently which was significant and it was THEN that I had to put my foot down and start managing things way more closely.

Secondly - my plan is to divert a certain amount from our household operating budget back to him -anything that's a "unit cost" like food, gas, clothing, haircuts etc - anything we would be paying for anyway. His "get laid" money will cover anything incremental like extra rent and utilities and all that. He is even talking about getting another car. I told him if he does that, the insurance is on him too. I would also ask that he relinquish our joint credit cards and would not be able to return to the household without a zero credit card balance. I will also put this in writing and have him sign it.

Thirdly - if he were the kind of person who discussed these things ahead of time, we wouldn't be in this situation, would we?

It takes a long time for these lost souls to realize that family and love doesn’t just grow on trees, or found on any random street corner. It takes effort and investment and sacrifice and commitment and responsibility and accountability and such. MLCers are running from that stuff.

It sure does. H knows this, and H also knows he doesn't have it in him to commit to any of it right now. Well, I guess that's good for him, but sooooo crappy for the rest of us. And let's be clear: I may not be perfect, but I have my life together. There is no reason (like substance abuse, mental health, financial irresponsibility or anger issues) for him to leave. He is going to find out soon that he misses having his dinner cooked and his laundry washed and folded.

My sister asked me what I get from him besides money and I said he can reach up high and lift heavy things. It's certainly not things like support or companionship, or even really helping out around the house much. That's on him. He has been pushing me away for a long time, and I honestly just didn't want to face that reality. My confidence that he will come back as the man I need him to be is very low - especially if he continues to make decisions in a vacuum.

[RegretfulLA]

Hi everyone,
Just a couple of updates from me. I got really sick last week - not Covid, I think it was the flu. At any rate, I was down for the count and sicker than I have been in a long time. (I am not sure how H didn't catch it since I didn't quarantine). Anyway, H wasn't very empathetic or helpful. I had to remind him to ask me how I was feeling. Somehow my parents can remember to text me and ask me every day but my own husband hearing me cough and sputter and look pretty bad can't manage to say anything or ask me if I need anything. More of same and not really unexpected. I had some positive (good) blood test results which I shared with him and he replied with a heart emoji. So he's not totally dead inside.

I used to wish I would get sick so my family would appreciate me more, and I did get sick and no one really appreciated me any more. H is on Planet H and the boys are pretty independent. Since I didn't make dinner, they either ate leftovers or (in H's case) ate ice cream. I missed laundry day and H said nothing and I said nothing. He will run out of underwear before I do, so I guess it will be a game of laundry chicken.

He has been a little more civil I suppose and has involved me in some family drama going on with his aunt regarding money. I have had to strongly encourage H to confront his aunt and to retain L. H does not want to "rock the boat" or at least he hasn't wanted to until now, but I pointed out to him that Aunt is behaving badly so there is nothing to lose here. It is a bad situation but I am glad he is letting me advise him (I can be quite a bulldog when needed).

I haven't been sharing very much with him about my own plans - just the minimal information needed and try to limit it to when asked. I have a lot of GAL coming up and I just don't say anything about it.

H and I are both away from home (separately) right now leaving only S20 at home by himself. H tends to be more communicative when he is away, but he still hasn't asked me how I'm doing, how I'm feeling, if I'm having a good time or anything like that. He and I had a long text exchange regarding Aunt.

In about a week we have to sit the boys down and let them know that Dad is "temporarily" moving out so that's going to suck.

So... long story short... not much has changed. I just have more confirmation and a little less hope.

[RegretfulLA]

A bit of an update.

Last Friday H went to look for an apartment and said he wasn't sure when he was going to be back. No communication, but by 11:30 pm I was super annoyed so I locked the bedroom door and went to sleep.

Next morning I check the security cameras - H came back at 1:35 am and slept in the guest house. I don't know whether he tried to get into the bedroom or not because I sleep with noise cancelling earbuds (thanks to his snoring).

H stumbled out of the guesthouse about 11:30 am. He looked like crap. He looked as if he'd had a really rough night. He's not a big drinker or anything like that. I have no idea what he got up to, but I did notice the next day that he moved my work badge in the car. Normally I keep it in the middle console and he moved it to the door. When I confronted him about it he said "I'm not cheating." Someone was in the car though.

I also decided not to do H's laundry like I normally do. I just washed my own clothes and left his in the hamper. I said nothing. He got down to it on his own, but he has no idea how to sort laundry! He washed and folded his own clothes and a few of mine too. I still said nothing!

Since that day - that was Saturday morning and it's Tuesday now - H has had a different attitude. He's been a little more social. He says hello and goodbye. He says dinner was good (and he eats it, which he kind of wasn't before). He's not really asking me about my life but he's thawed out considerably.

I gave him a few ground rules having to do with money and how I want it handled when he is gone. He didn't argue. I told him that he always looks so pained when we talk about him moving out. He said, "This is a nice place to live." Yeah DUH H. It sounds to me like he's starting to regret this choice a little. I just shrug at him.

Also, he mentioned that he wants to buy a pick up truck (we have 2 cars, one is our nice car and one is our kids' car, so he has to get another car). This fool was all set to enter into a lease but he I think he listened to me when I told him to get a used car so he can at least SELL IT back. He's super dumb with money - one of our major issues.

We also had to collaborate on a project. Our ice maker broke and we took it apart and fixed it together. Without fighting.

Anyway, I am staying strong. I am going away on a business trip tomorrow and when I get back we have to talk to S18 and S20. Dreading this.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

Nicely done! Letting H do his own laundry and such. He needs to feel the loss before he will move forward and hopefully grow/evolve. Methinks things are getting real for H with his pending moving out getting closer and closer.

Yes, telling the boys about Dad’s moving out will not be a fun time. However, I suspect they know more than you realize. Dad sleeping in the guest house and such, this is just the other shoe dropping.

Stick to the facts. Ensure the boys know this has nothing to do with them, and you love them. The boys may have questions or may have none at that time. Be open, honest, and age appropriate. And it’s perfectly fine to answer “I don’t know. Let me think about it and I’ll get back to you.” (And do get back to them in a timely fashion.)

Stay strong. You’ll do fine. (And are doing fine!)

D

[RegretfulLA]

Thank you D. I appreciate the input. My plan is to let H do most of the talking.

I do feel like I have a bit of the upper hand now. H looks like he's really feeling the pain. He's not even putting on a brave face. His face looks as though he's not getting enough fiber in his diet - very pained. I feel bad for him because he's clearly suffering, but you reap what you sow and it's not my problem.

Will come back once we've had the discussion.