Sounds like H’s counsellor is facilitating him looking inward a bit. It will be interesting to see how much of H’s “insights” stick. Actions vs words. (One positive action is H continuing therapy.)
Be kind and cordial, and continue on your path.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I am reminded of several sayings here. Just going from memory...
- You didn't talk your way into this, you won't talk your way out. - It takes consistent actions over time to be believed
There are several good lists in this forum of what it takes for a wayward spouse to return. Actions. Verified by former wayward spouses. I'll try and find them later if you haven't seen them yet.
Here is one:
Originally Posted by sandi2
It's easier, for me, to list some things the WW will need to do in order to reconcile, honestly and completely, with her H. If you see something that needs to be added, feel free. ................. Keep in mind, these things will not all come about at one time. Neither will she be able to know without someone guiding her. It is really important she has help or coaching from an unbiased source who is pro-marriage and is familiar with piecing after an affair.
Thank you for the resource . H has been touching on many of the items on Sandis list . H is still very consistent. I just can’t even organize my thoughts of where a real starting point would be. Anything I throw at him he just does or anticipates and makes sure it’s not an issue . I find the hardest struggle for me is the insanity H went through in order begin to come to this place of change or peace . It was very destructive on me . I’m not the same person and have not been for a very long time now . I got very used to being alone a lot . Doing everything for me and the kids. Struggling to just hold all together for the family unit. H is really trying . I can see it and feel it whether I want to or not . He’s happy home . He can do and say all the right things but I’m never going to look at this man the same . It’s not even the affair . It’s the mental game he played for years on me . The countless times I asked for help . The times I was just being swallowed by quick sand and he got up and left . It turns my stomach to see how content he is home .
Caligirl, I was thinking a couple other things even before your reply...
Like the advice to the LBS -
your changes have to be for YOU, or they are not genuine and will not stick.
This would apply to your H. Are they being made for you? or for HIM and they will stick whether you are there or not?
... and in organizing my dozens of open DB tabs I found a reply and discussion from the perspective of a person who was in the fog. It may lend some perspective.
Originally Posted by Wonka replying to TSquared2
IF she wants back in, these are the questions I want answered:
What has changed that brought about this desire?
In my experience, it was a slow and gradual realization that my chit was mine to own and it was all on me all a long. As I've regaled in my previous threads, I came out of the fog and the picture was almost Claritin clear to me. Same thing occurred to Raine's and rH's husbands when they slowly shifted their feet back into their marital home. This process comes in dribbles. Usually doesn't happen in a fell swoop.
The desire also comes back ever so gradually. This isn't The Notebook movie you're viewing starring you and your W. Sorry to put a damper on this scenario in your head, buddy.
This is the MLCer mind at work. This is something you need to be mindful.
After I posted I realized that my phrasing could be confusing. Revised *** This would apply to your H. Are the changes he is making, being made for you? or is he making them for himself, to be a better man, and they will stick whether you are there or not? *** g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23 DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W moves out 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
Always good to read back on some older threads. Not all stiches are the same but they all have so many of the same qualities to them . I think for myself I made changes a long time ago . Even within the last few years I would say most of my growth happened and stuck . The GAL I enjoy is traveling with my kids and my friends . I did a lot of this alone with them and if I’m being honest the trips I took alone without H were the ones I enjoyed the most. The chaos and tone he would bring was very off putting . I became very independent and just continued on with what I wanted to do and brought me happiness .I can look back and really only see the one thing I would change . I allowed myself to be comfortable and ignore being treating so poorly by my spouse and allowing bread crumbs and cake eating. But I do not know if I would even change that because it also taught me what I want and expect from H now . Reflection is a useful tool for me . I take quite a bit of time throughout my day. I am happy with my life and who I am . I feel like I went on the journey to find out who I am a long time ago . So either I am going to allow H to begin to repair or I am going to just move on alone . But no decision needs to be made today .
I really read over the post of questions that they wanted answered . For me it’s not as many . I did decide to ask H a few :
What are you doing or plan on doing in order for me to begin to trust you again ?
H - this is a tough one . You do not ask to look at my phone . You do not ask where I am . You ask me nothing. You do not want location put on my phone . So I try to give you as much information in small doses as I can . You haven’t even asked me not to see my friends but I’m taking a big step back from that too . I do my best to come home on time . You asked for consistent behavior and I know it will take time . I talk to my counselor about ways to improve myself and gain trust . Sometimes it’s hard because it’s not like you are walking around crying. You are just quiet so I let you be quiet and know I am just home if you need anything .
I did get hit with a return question from H. What makes you think I can’t do this ? My response was simple, maybe a bit defensive but simple . I never said u couldn’t then I asked the next question .
Why do you want to repair this marriage ?
H- I never want to live like that again . It was awful . The guilt ate me alive . You have no idea how much better I feel not living like that or knowing I never what to live like that again . It’s not only for us I am doing this . My children deserve a whole family . They learn from me how an H should treat a W. I’m embarrassed of what I have taught them . I also want to teach them you learn from your mistakes and show you are apologetic by new behavior.
Now he’s either got a really good counselor, been given some very powerful drugs or just full of it until I trust him again .
I don't post too often these days, but I saw your thread and wanted to post to you. I am so sorry at you have returned.
Some of these crisis people come back to the relationship too soon and go back into crisis mode at a later time. When they do this, it creates even more heartache for the family and trust is even more difficult to earn when they finally want to return and repair the damage that they created.
Your h reminds me of a teen who had done something wrong and feels very guilty for what he's done. He's scared of what the future holds for him and he wants to know that "mom" is okay and willing to allow him to remain in the home and yes, forgive him. He's afraid that you have moved on and basically are going through the motions each and every day. He doesn't understand why you aren't reacting, i.e., crying, etc. In his mind, he doesn't realize just how much you have grown during this crisis. You may look the same, but you have learned to be more independent. He is looking for the woman he left behind and he doesn't realize that the changes that you made for you are permanent and you will not be going back to the way you were years ago.
He doesn't understand that trust has to be earned. It is not handed out like a coupon. Actions speak louder than words. Those actions need to be consistent.
He also doesn't realize that you do not want to discuss every little thing right now. You need time to process and heal. He needs to understand that you are not ready. He needs to accept your decision, i.e., if you aren't ready to discuss things and leave it be. It will take some time for that wall you have built around your heart to come down. It sure doesn't happen with a flip of the switch. The damage these crisis people create takes a lot of time to recover from.
He is saying all of the right things, but I get the feeling that he is in panic mode and will say anything and/or do anything to keep you in his life. I may be wrong on that assumption, but he is really trying to alleviate his guilt for what he has done to you and your family.
You have every right to question his actions/words. Caligirl, stay the course. You will know, in time, if his actions will match up with his words. For now, let him be. This man has a lot of internal work to do on himself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you for the response . The one thing I learned with this go around was this is not a quick fix for him and it may never be fixable for me . I try not to dwell on that and just keep doing things I enjoy doing . It is also a big adjustment for me having another parent in the home for the majority of the time after work now . I am very accustomed to how the household runs and I know it may sound a little cheesy but the vibe in the home . I set the tone for years . I am by far the calmer parent of the two of us . More a watcher and nurturer. It’s not that it’s a bad thing H is home more it’s just a change for everyone . The kids have begun asking what time H is coming home because they do enjoy the playfulness he brings . So I just roll with it for now . Last week H came home a lot earlier from work than his usual last few months . Kids were off playing with their friends . Usual stuff . He looked baffled and asked this is what the house is like in the evenings , you are alone a lot . I just said yes this is what the kids do and how the household runs after school . Kids play . Sometimes I go . Sometimes I start cooking . He looked utterly confused . I wanted to say news flash buddy you got a wife and kids but I just moved along . The guilt gets me on and off with that one . I don’t speak about it with H . But it’s a real reality that I may face that I’m just not in it for the long haul . But again . I don’t dwell and really do try to move along and keep things light . One day I’ll figure it out but not today .
It’s not a far stretch what you said about H not recognizing the person he left behind years ago . I barely recognize the person I was 5 years ago . Even if you take my marriage out of the last 5 years . Major growth spurts in parenting style , my own education , financial independence and just overall values and beliefs was huge and as you say there’s no going back . H said something interesting 2 weeks ago when I threw out a couple questions . H said I never want to live like that again . Well guess what that makes two of us .
Time will tell with this one . Actions are still the same . Counseling for him . He’s home . Active parent . He has been giving me some more emotional space which is a change and needed . Not pressuring me with the I’m sorry anymore or to talk R.
Thanks for taking the time . I pop on every few days and read others posts as well . Sometimes I just want to reach out and hug all of them .
I got a little roped into a conversation with H regarding finances. Small background . I make quite a bit more money than H. Within the last 5 years this was a change . H was the bread winner but with schooling and promotions this has changed. We always had our own accounts plus a joint . We each contributed to joint on our pay days . I manage and always have paying this bills . Over the last 2 years H had an extra job that brought in extra income . I never monitored it or really even took note . Looking back this is how he funded the A. He quit the job back in May since he planted himself home and from what I remember I pretty much knew that’s when he ended A.
So this week his transmission went on his car . Since BD I have placed no money in joint accounts or minimal if he had to run to grab stuff for our children . Obviously as the one making much more money I know the car needs to be fixed . He has always maintained the status quo of contributing to the household and still has . I told H get the car fixed and I’ll move the money over . I got hit with I don’t like not knowing where all “our” money is . Not sure I responded correctly but at this point im giving a tad bit of wiggle room . My response “ you can know where the money is when I have access to all your personal accounts “. I must say for a minute it went exactly as I thought he said no im not giving you those. I said ok and walked away . H followed me and said I’ll print out the last 5 months of records right now but im embarrassed of the 18 months before and don’t want you to see all the hotels and money I spent . If I give you the password you will look back . It’s bad . Really bad . I gave you the most amount of grief about traveling with the kids and your friends while I was hiding money and being irresponsible . Kudos for honesty but oh boy .
I left it be right there . I needed to process that one .
You did the right thing. You put the ball back into his court and if he wants to be completely transparent with you, he will give you the password. He isn't thinking that you already have connected the dots of many of his activities. Yes, he should be embarrassed about how much money he has spent foolishly when he could have been contributing more to the family.
Continue to process what he said. I wouldn't say another word about it unless he brings it up again. He needs to understand that you are more than willing to assist in repairing his car, but he needs to be transparent as well.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
