It’s been 5 years since I had a runaway husband return home . Now 5 years later I have a full blown MLCer who is moving out of the home in a few days . 2 marriage - kids from both first marriages and kids together . Over the last 2 years I suspected OW. We had a very traumatic event happen and over the last few months I would say our relationship grew extremely strong . Probably the strongest it has been in years . I didn’t have proof of affair but was certain it ended during this event . Which he admitted today .I was honest with him and said I know u have been cheating for years but I ignored it . He never admitted it told me I was crazy all the stuff . I told him someone gonna pretty much have to knock on my door and tell me because I’m not chasing you around . So I chose to just move toward improving our marriage. Which we both were very happy falling in love again . Well bomb drop came not from him . A random letter with all of it in it . Photos the entire shabang. Asking for him to leave OW alone .Now this rocked me at my core because for the last few months we had made such improvement . But this was just flat out now thrown in my face . He denied it . Until the pictures . Then confessed . An 18 month affair . He ended it told OW he was working on marriage few months ago . Still don’t know who sent the letter but whatever . So here we are now days later . The man who last week would do anything and was dating his wife 3 nights a week now says he is incapable of being married and does not want to put the work in . I told him that was his choice and he is free to go I will not beg or ask someone to stay . He’s now saying he’s never been alone in his life and now needs to learn to be alone because he hurts everyone he loves and he is the problem . I know the steps . The only I did ask if he chooses to talk it must be at a different location . The kids have been through enough . He did say I don’t love the OW and it was just a spiteful thing and I didn’t want to be here but felt it wasn’t right to leave . He has apologized numerous times to the point I said stop . But unwilling to do the work flat out said no I’m moving out. At least point if I’m being truly honest I don’t think I want to even be married to someone who is this big of a train wreck . We did talk today as I left for a night last night just to get through the flood of emotions . The honesty that came out of him was pretty dark .
I'm ao sorry you find yourself here. Unfortunately by the story you tell it seems you are dealing with someone who does not deal with stress or emotions, he seeks answers in others and uses you as a scapegoat for his internal turmoil. You did the right thing by not chasing him as he chooses to run away from his own problems and makes you to be the source of his lack of character. The only you can do now is look after yourself and worry about your own well being. Unfortunately when someone goes through these crisis and don't fix themselves, they tend to leave their loved ones behind and hurt. No matter how many times he says sorry it will not be enough because his actions will never match his words. Stay strong and look after yourself as best as you can.
I am sorry you find yourself here for another spell. I’ll paste Cadet’s welcoming post below for reference to some helpful links and tips.
It certainly appears like H did very little internal work, more utilizing external sources to try to fix his unhappiness. That misguided effort, at best, is only short term as one’s unreconciled demons just grow in strength and eventually become too much.
Yes, presently, H is a train wreck. And you know the drill. Give lots of time and space. Focus on you and the kids. GAL.
H has quite a heap of turmoil, lies, actions, etc. to atone for and heal from. Not the typical bomb drop. I suspect the random letter came from OW’s H or significant other. Maybe even her kid(s) or other family/friend(s). It matters not. The cat is out of the bag and H hung on to the lie right until the pictures.
He’s going to have a whole lot of emotions swimming around and likely will lash out at you in much misdirected guilt and shame and anger and justification. Don’t take the bait. Don’t rise up. H’s narrative is just that, a narrative - you know better. Have good strong boundaries on disrespect and “leave the room” when he cross the line.
For right now, breathe. Just breathe. I know the rug was suddenly yanked out from under you. Give yourself time to regain your balance and center.
H is planning on moving out in a few days. This is ok. He has a dark and confusing path ahead of him. And his statement about needing to learn how to live alone is actually pretty true. He needs to grow up and face responsibility and accountability.
Let the dust settle a bit before deciding anything. Let go. Find detachment. You’ve got the gift of time, use it wisely.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I was honest with him and said I know u have been cheating for years but I ignored it.
Not a great recipe for a relationship, IMHO.
Something to consider, and it is a bit far reaching for right after BD though this is BD2, do not let him move back in too soon. At least 12 months of no OW. Absolutely no contact, or the clock resets. That’s the level of commitment and healing H needs, and you deserve. Like I said, a ways in the future. I only mention it for a mindset/direct for you. To illustrate the timelines involved. That gift of time stuff.
Anyhow, today, breathe. Know you are not alone. (((Hugs)))
I hope to converse more with you.
Be strong.
D
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Thank you for the reply. Been here before . He is in complete flight mode but has done the usual flip the script . Yesterday I’m sorry it’s all my fault trying to come in the bed for comfort to today the long text of everything I’ve done wrong over the last 10 years and he ll never recover . His family now knows . They are involved . I swear I think mom must have been on this site . Said let him go and see how much he really likes being alone . He’s got to do this on his own . I’m still confused by this entire thing . To one day go from a peaceful marriage that really began to have open communication to him getting caught and flying off the deep end . Goodness I forgot how crazy all this stuff was and how to not pay attention to most of it . Forgot how hard it is . Just to clarify when I said I told him I knew that he has been cheating on me for years that was not after he got caught . I said that during one of our very good and open talks we had months ago . Had he admitted it then we would not be here. Apparently only one of us was being honest .I did say after bomb drop u manipulated me for the last two years and made me feel crazy . Obviously I was not crazy . This evening he’s doing his random check in . He left to go to the park up the street and sent me a big long slew of how he can’t sit there and glare at me and he’s really hurt me and stay out of my way while I pack to go away alone with the kids that he is now to attending because he will be moving . Bunch of spew . I’m not making any decisions on anything but the rope is dropping . I have to go back a read the threads again . Because how do you react to him coming bed not for sex but just to hold you or vice versa ????
So he’s done this to you once… and you worked hard at it for five years to try and save it, and now he’s doing it again (because he was lying to you all along)?
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Because how do you react to him coming bed not for sex but just to hold you or vice versa ????
I left today with the kids . Last I heard was he was moving while I am gone . So random bed stuff will be non existent. I made boundaries clear . When you leave you are not coming into home at random . You have your space I have mine . Last night I decided to just sit out alone on the hill behind our home . Random check from him . Circled round me . Seeing if I would talk or engage . Did not . Continued to enjoy my time outside reading . After time of just doing my thing at home . He asked to go out to the mountains out west here and just talk about anything but our relationship . I agreed . This is what we had been doing for the last few months after the affair ended UN known to me but suspicious-until the random bomb drop from OW. Started dating each other again . He’s definitely doing checks on my behavior and reactions . Apologized for yelling earlier in the week . I just said ok . I’m all over the place here . How do you handle the invites to do things ??? When hours before he’s saying he’s leaving and can’t do this ? Obviously rope was not dropped
I left today with the kids . Last I heard was he was moving while I am gone . So random bed stuff will be non existent. I made boundaries clear . When you leave you are not coming into home at random . You have your space I have mine . Last night I decided to just sit out alone on the hill behind our home . Random check from him . Circled round me . Seeing if I would talk or engage . Did not . Continued to enjoy my time outside reading . After time of just doing my thing at home . He asked to go out to the mountains out west here and just talk about anything but our relationship . I agreed . This is what we had been doing for the last few months after the affair ended UN known to me but suspicious-until the random bomb drop from OW. Started dating each other again . He’s definitely doing checks on my behavior and reactions . Apologized for yelling earlier in the week . I just said ok . I’m all over the place here . How do you handle the invites to do things ??? When hours before he’s saying he’s leaving and can’t do this ? Obviously rope was not dropped
Caligirl,
First off. I'm sorry you are back here. I know what it feels like when you thought you made progress only to be hit with another long term lie. For me - it left me shattered. I no longer realized who I was or why I was still doing the same thing - expecting different results.
Most of us won't drop the rope until our hands have experienced so much rope burn... it's too painful to hold it anymore. None of us on the board can tell you when that it will be for YOU, only that it will come in time.
It's also an act you will do over and over again. Dropping the rope isn't a one and done deal.
From the bleacher seats - it seems like you have two options. You can either continue to be all over the place because your are participating in your H's rollercoaster ride. Or you can choose to place some boundaries on yourself and not participate.
Boundaries on yourself would be to not engage with him. When he asks to go for walks - your response "no thank you". Create as much emotional distance as you can. Physical as well. He has fired you as his w. You are no longer responsible for his well being. None of this is communicated to him btw - this is all done in actions.
I'm going to be honest - this will also feel painful. In fact - it feels awful.To say "this is how I expect to be treated" and watch the other person throw tantrums, push boundaries, and ultimately make the choice not to treat you that way...svcks. But this pain is temporary. And although unlike the first which will continue to tear apart your self-worth... the second option will eventually help you get it back.
You are a prize and are worthy of respect and love. The journey begins with you. The more you can treat yourself in those ways... the better you will feel. The better you feel, the more confident you can be to demand it from others.
Those who don't guard your heart - don't deserve it. This can become your truth - one small step at a time.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
The big struggle is the affair ended right when I knew it did . He called me randomly one day sobbing months ago a few days after his friend was taken off life support . Apologized for not making things right with us for a long time . That not only me but our family was going to be his priority. That he loves me to the depths of the earth and no matter who ever he has been with no one he loves like me . You are the strongest person I know and I’m going to make this right . I never questioned him just had tears falling down my face listening and just let him get it out for over 30 mins . But I knew at that moment he cheated for a long time and regretted it . And it may not have been the right choice but I let it go and his actions followed as he promised they would . Redating his wife . Always checking in and letting me know where he was . Inviting me everywhere with him . Declining invites with the guys for poker night . Even one day gave me to passcode to his phone . I didn’t ask for it . And I never even felt the need to look at it since then . The husband I had for so long waited for finally was there . We had so many talks . The random bomb drop was just that . Like a time bomb buried that was randomly stepped on by a spiteful person that he created . Had it gone off 9 months ago I would have said out the door you go and stay out . I know the number one rule is never try to understand what they are thinking but he has said I’m embarrassed and just can’t even think right . I shouldn’t be married to anyone . You didn’t deserve any of this . He is just a train wreck . He called me earlier I am away with kids . He had texted me earlier wasn’t a question so no answer was needs . Was a make sure you are taking care of yourself I am worried . The call was how are the kids . Gave a few short answers nicely . Didn’t rush off phone but I hung up pleasantly. With in 5 mins he called back and you could just hear it . He doesn’t want to move out . I didn’t tell him he had to since he came clean .
The big struggle is the affair ended right when I knew it did . He called me randomly one day sobbing months ago a few days after his friend was taken off life support . Apologized for not making things right with us for a long time . That not only me but our family was going to be his priority. That he loves me to the depths of the earth and no matter who ever he has been with no one he loves like me . You are the strongest person I know and I’m going to make this right . I never questioned him just had tears falling down my face listening and just let him get it out for over 30 mins . But I knew at that moment he cheated for a long time and regretted it . And it may not have been the right choice but I let it go and his actions followed as he promised they would . Redating his wife . Always checking in and letting me know where he was . Inviting me everywhere with him . Declining invites with the guys for poker night . Even one day gave me to passcode to his phone . I didn’t ask for it . And I never even felt the need to look at it since then . The husband I had for so long waited for finally was there . We had so many talks . The random bomb drop was just that . Like a time bomb buried that was randomly stepped on by a spiteful person that he created . Had it gone off 9 months ago I would have said out the door you go and stay out . I know the number one rule is never try to understand what they are thinking but he has said I’m embarrassed and just can’t even think right . I shouldn’t be married to anyone . You didn’t deserve any of this . He is just a train wreck . He called me earlier I am away with kids . He had texted me earlier wasn’t a question so no answer was needs . Was a make sure you are taking care of yourself I am worried . The call was how are the kids . Gave a few short answers nicely . Didn’t rush off phone but I hung up pleasantly. With in 5 mins he called back and you could just hear it . He doesn’t want to move out . I didn’t tell him he had to since he came clean .
This is starting to sound like your decision making is being influenced by your temporary emotions.
I know you’re in an incredibly hard spot. I don’t envy your position, you must feel torn between demanding to be treated well by him, but also caring deeply for someone you love.
Personally, I think you should avoid this man. You’re going to end up heart broken over and over again if you let your emotions control your decision making.
He has proven time and time again that he can apologise and say what you want to hear when he’s broken/lonely/regretful, but then he’ll still walk away and discard you if it suits him.
Nothing is permanent in his life and brain. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has drinking or drug related addiction issues given these wild swings away and back to you.
About time you put your own mental health first. You’ll always be there if one day he gets it together, but he doesn’t have it together and from what I’m reading, he’s unlikely to ever become stable again.
You and your kids need certainty, stability and calm. Time to draw a line under this, go dark, live separately and place yourself first.
As I envision myself if your shoes, it hurts to read through your update and Kind18's response. I don't know what the right thing to do is in your predicament. I do know that your sitch is hard and I empathize.
The only thing that comes to my mind is what if....I know what if??...what if H is hovering just above rock bottom and you keep on saving him? Some will brace themselves and not let themselves hit.
Mostly I lean towards agreeing with Kind18...it may be the soft spot in me (for your situation) that is questioning. We need to remove the emotional part from our responses. In other words, remove the soft spot.
H needs to feel the loss and suffer the consequences to his decision(s). Let H list out his plans to make things right with you. Don't get excited when he tells you what you want to hear. Instead, respond with, "That's a good start." and go dim.
Sending you lots of hugs and prayers.
H:49 W:49 M:26; T:32 D21; S23 BD1: Feb 2023 (I think it was a BD) BD2: Sept 2023 Moved out: Dec 2023
It’s very frustrating the entire thing . I had explained over the last few months what I needed and wanted to feel secure again . He did them easily . During the process I was very kind and said do this and he did . And oddly continues to do them without me even asking or being chatty and flat out ignoring them . Sending me he’s where abouts and I’m not even around or asking nor do I care at this present moment. I will never blame anyone but him . Though it’s very striking that all this came about a few days before a family trip that was planned 2 years ago by unsigned letter . He involved himself with OW so now these are his consequences . I did speak with him a little last night briefly and a train wreck of I can’t believe I did this to my family . I don’t even know what rock bottom would be or expected changes . He’s been doing them for few months . He can’t apologize anymore . I can’t even listen to it and told him to stop . The only time he brings up moving out is when he says I should not be married to anyone because I hurt you and everything . I get what kind18 is going with cut him off because he has a history of this and it will happen again too . When he’s in need he leans hard on me and uses my kindness . Were those changes he’s been making going to stick anyway ??? He very well will need to feel this one at his core .
At what point do you just move forward? H did not move out. I guess when push came to shove and he was given an empty house and told to take whatever he wanted a dose of reality hit pretty fast . I don’t even know where to begin . He has been pouring his soul out last few days about things I never knew . I listen . Do not know what else to do . He gave me password to phone for a third time . I remembered it from months ago didn’t need it nor do I want it . I’ve not brought up R talk he does . He said something randomly about his friend who really hit rock bottom years ago with drinking . My only response was it’s ok to ask for help . Sometimes we all just help . He starting bawling .
At what point do you just move forward? H did not move out. I guess when push came to shove and he was given an empty house and told to take whatever he wanted a dose of reality hit pretty fast . I don’t even know where to begin . He has been pouring his soul out last few days about things I never knew . I listen . Do not know what else to do . He gave me password to phone for a third time . I remembered it from months ago didn’t need it nor do I want it . I’ve not brought up R talk he does . He said something randomly about his friend who really hit rock bottom years ago with drinking . My only response was it’s ok to ask for help . Sometimes we all just help . He starting bawling .
I think the first thing YOU need to do is breathe. You are currently on your own emotional rollercoaster ride - which is okay, we've all been there.
In a moment of emotional calmness - go back and read the advice given to you on this board. From there - decide on what are few things you can do to take care of yourself. Currently - you are coming to us asking questions... but then not responding and asking more questions. Again - this is normal however won't be helpful for your healing or well being. We cannot tell you what to do - only give thoughts on how to provide enough emotional stability for you to decide what is best for you.
I personally do not think you can take care of YOURSELF as long as you are "there" for your H is all of his chaos. He's taking up too much air in the room, there is no oxygen for yourself!
But I also think this has been your pattern so perhaps you taking care of yourself might feel "wrong", "selfish", "guilty". Taking care of yourself might make you afraid that it will push your husband away, make him angry, and the most fearful thing - end your marriage.
This is all false. The best chance any of us have, married or not, to be happy in this world and to show up in all of our relationships to the best of our ability - is to take care of ourselves FIRST.
Mentally, Emotionally, physically.... it really is true what they say on every airplane ride.
"Put your own oxygen mask on first... before helping others".
So what does putting on your oxygen mask look like to Caligirl?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
You keep moving forward in your life. Live your life. Do hobbies. Read a book. Go places. Have fun. All those GAL activities. Moving on, deciding upon major life changes need not be undertaken today.
It is clear H is under a lot of turmoil. A portion of that is self inflicted. Guilt, shame, regret, etc. will need to be felt and worked through, as well as all the other pressures and stresses and such.
You are correct H needs to feel this right to his core. He needs to hit rock bottom.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I don’t even know what rock bottom would be or expected changes .
A MLCer’s rock bottom is a choice. A time when one decides to stop their decent. A time of God-fearing remorse. Deep dark depression. Utter inability to continue as they are. And not sure of how or where or what to do next. One is exhausted of blaming and loathing others and themselves. The fight is gone from them. Rock bottom is hit, when the only way left is up.
As you can see, rock bottom is rather bleak. Crisis folks do not run towards it, and do everything in their power to avoid such. Rock bottom will be as large and as grave as the transgression. The bigger the transgression the bigger and harder the fall.
We LBS have a rock bottom as well. Our’s is more grief driven. And change driven. We’ll fight and struggle, until eventually hitting bottom when we decide. Then we start the difficult upward efforts to betterment.
Interestingly, the choice, the hitting the bottom, is mostly unwittingly. Grief is a journey towards emotional understanding. A crisis is an emotionally driven journey. Emotions do not lend themselves to the intellectual path, to knowing, to logically deciding. No, this choice is more a belief and faith kind of a thing. Intellect, emotions, convictions, tenets, all converging and altering one’s trajectory.
It’s a rather profound time. Most LBS testify to the incredible journey they were forced on to. Incredible gains from such a painful and unwanted path. Yet, they’d not give up the lessons they’ve learned. It’s that profound.
H has back out of his plan to move out. I agree with you, H likely got quite a jolt of reality facing an empty house. Do realize H is still emotionally driven. His 180 may not last, and he might well feel like moving out again. Don’t fret it. Leave him be. Focus on you.
So, H is remaining in the home. Let look at a few logistical kind of things. Which will look into that which really matters - you and your well-being.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
how do you react to him coming bed not for sex but just to hold you or vice versa ????
As was stated, don’t. No cake eating.
What are your current sleeping arrangements? I suspect H is still in the master bedroom. I’d tell/move him to a spare room. He was all planning on moving out. He is going to need time and space to sort out his confusion. I think a cooling down period will be helpful. (For you too.) In fact, I’d not be surprised if he wants separate rooms. Folks in crisis are really under extreme pressures and want to hide away.
Figure out your boundaries towards disrespectful behaviour from H and hold him accountable. People will treat you as you let them. H will not like boundaries and will test them. Perfectly normal by the way. Let him crash into your boundaries. Be rock solid. MLCers are like teenagers and need to grow up.
Meals. Laundry. And such are other areas where you may move forward in a more separate manner for the time being. The path somewhat is derived by H’s temperament. Besides, he may very well choose to do his own thing. Time will tell.
Focus on you. Give H lots of time and space. GAL! Keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi CaliG. Like you, I found myself needing to re-boot my efforts to DB. What you're going through is unfair. Like others, my advice is to focus on 1) your well-being and 2) the well-being of your kids. I encourage you to go back and read (from Cadet's welcome post DnJ shared), Sandi's rules. Pivot to acting "as if" you're moving on with your life, with or without your H. You can and will be OK if you shift to working on the only person you can control in this situation: you. Make yourself less available for H to do or say what he's doing. Great job responding to texts with minimal responses and only when a text truly merits a response. Given your H tons of space. Put all questions about your M on hold - he's nowhere near in a place to have a credible discussion with you about your relationship.
I suspect we all feel the temptation to give in when our wayward or walkaway spouses want to re-engage with us in some way (sex, cuddling, availability for providing empathy, etc.). Part of our hearts wants them back. We think it may be easier and so their seemingly quick improvements further tempt us to jump back in. But, as so many experiences on this board reflect, these improvements are fleeting mirages and often not sustained. Dive back into the DB books. Watch some MWD videos on YouTube. Think of 1-2 180s you can pull that will make your S take notice. For example, putting your foot down about the sleeping arrangements or attempts to still access you for support - communicate that given all this behavior, you're "closed" for business as a wife for now. If you had a BD, I'd say he fired you from your role as W. Maybe this is more like a sabbatical or leave of absence to focus on your health and sanity.
Keep us posted on your progress. I'm especially interested to hear in your next update 1-2 things you're doing for the 100% purpose of feeling better about yourself and worth.
Thank you both. I took a couple days just to breathe and let the dust settle from this. I needed that to clear my head. You are absolutely right I am by nature a care taker and always put myself last out of fear of others. Oxygen mask much needed. To the point of exhaustion.
To answer the question: H does not want separate bedrooms, I do not have a spare bedroom. I am also not a huge fan of the kids seeing a parent on the couch and super protective that way. Farthest thing from what he wants and communicated this week is being banished to the couch. And yes I understand that this is this week.
I have communicated minimally and many times am trying to balance a deer in head lights look. One thing he said very clearly was you were the first person who just gave me space and allowed me to sort through the jumbled mess in my head. I did respond to that and said I deserve a spouse who is committed to being here. If you choose to leave I will not stop you but I will not help you either.
Financially I do not need him he knows this. The home is solely mine, purchased prior to marriage. Does it make life better sure but I would be fine alone. What I have really been pondering is do I have this in me for another go around?
The rock bottom is just tough. I have never seen this man cry the way he has cried over the last few months but then did change into a better person. When he speaks he does mention the plans he had on leaving months and years back but says I put that to rest and committed to what I wanted in my life.
Not to think for him or even defend his actions but the B drop was also a B drop on him where everything he did and stopped doing was dropped at the same moment. So more questions he said he’s here because this is where he wants to be and that he loves me. Felt like he lost me many years ago and was just starting to get me back. I didn’t say much because doing nothing is doing something.
Now I feel like he’s a little hawk watching my every move and I don’t like it. I’m very independent and have strong good healthy friendships but I can’t even talk on the phone without him just walking by. And I’m not leaving my home to talk to my friends and family. He did this not me nor do my children need to see me leaving frequently.
Last edited by DnJ; 09/02/2402:35 PM. Reason: Added paragraphs/spacing for clarity.
1-2 things I have implemented are taking care of my overall appearance. Even at my age I am still quite attractive but tend to fall into mom gear for clothes . Feels nice to wear better clothing and not leggings . 180s I have learned to be quiet . Real quiet . I’m a chatty person still balancing the deer in headlights vs quiet when approached but getting there .
On the H front . Still being a hawk on me and trying every opportunity to attempt to talk . R talk but mainly about him and what he needs to do . He asked me what he needs to do to fix this . Didn’t really say much besides that’s for you to figure out not me . He started with the I need help with learning how to deal with things not the way I have been for years . Actions speak louder than words . Time will tell with a follow through .
I agree. It does feel good to break out the better clothing. Sounds like your day to day attire has shifted a bit. Good for you.
Thanks for sharing about having no spare bedroom. That does limit options somewhat. And I too do not think having Dad sleeping on the couch is a good long term path. It is good that he does not want to be banished to the couch.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I have communicated minimally and many times am trying to balance a deer in head lights look. One thing he said very clearly was you were the first person who just gave me space and allowed me to sort through the jumbled mess in my head. I did respond to that and said I deserve a spouse who is committed to being here. If you choose to leave I will not stop you but I will not help you either.
I see your 180, your efforts on being quiet. And the finding the balancing of deer in the headlights vs quiet. If I may offer a suggestion, and I may be off base here so do let me know, it’s not about being quiet, I think you are working on how to listen, validate, and not give your point of view when he opens up.
In the above, you are correct in what you stated. You do deserve a committed spouse. However, H is not ready, nor got his mess sorted out enough to hear it or absorb it. That is just a lot of pressure on him.
Now, you said it. Good. It’s ok for him to hear it. And you placed the ball in his court. Once is enough. Let it go. H’s path is slow. And pressure will make it slower, or worse derail it.
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One thing he said very clearly was you were the first person who just gave me space and allowed me to sort through the jumbled mess in my head.
A suggested response: You’re welcome.
You could add how overwhelming it must be to have such feelings swimming about, or other folks being demanding of him. Or not. Silence is ok too. Letting H lead the way, at his pace, and his direction.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
he said he’s here because this is where he wants to be and that he loves me. Felt like he lost me many years ago and was just starting to get me back. I didn’t say much because doing nothing is doing something.
Yep, you need not do anything. Just acknowledge and go about your day.
It looks like you are in a good place financially. Sole ownership of the house is fortunate.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
What I have really been pondering is do I have this in me for another go around?
Luckily, you don’t have to answer that today. Do you? Doing nothing is doing something.
It does sound like H is/has making/made positive progress. Albeit slow. You’ve seen him be a better person. It takes time.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I feel like he’s a little hawk watching my every move and I don’t like it. … I can’t even talk on the phone without him just walking by.
That does sound irritating.
I suspect H has bouts of guilt, shame, regret, and such. Is underfoot due to his worry and wonder if he can be forgiven or even deserving of it. Worried he is being judged. And kind of lost on how to go forward.
H needs to feel the loss. Needs to decide to make significant personal inner changes. Like you said, words vs actions. Time will tell.
Live and love your life. Focus on you. Let time work for and with you. It is a gift.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
You nailed a lot of it ! Had a great weekend . Lots of time with the kids which are really just my loves and keep me grounded . I started to balance a bit better just listening , hearing and not just sitting there . H continues to spend all his free time home can see he’s trying to be extra caring .He had been doing this anyway prior to B drop because A ended few months ago . He has started going to counseling for just him - virtually . Didn’t tell me he started while I was away but I’m ok with that .I have made it clear I’m not going to marriage counseling anytime soon. Agreed he needs a safe person to speak without pressure of some of it being shared with me for now .He has expressed shame ,guilt but mainly the one thing his fear of me leaving not today but in 6 months or a year or me running off having an A . Now wouldn’t that be something ! But not my thing a bit more grounded currently. H stated there are so many times I was just going to come clean over the last few months but you’re so strong I figured you would just boot me to the curb . He hit me with the I’m going to do whatever this takes you deserve better . The one boundary I have been making is I respect honesty and not dishonesty if something is bothering you speak up . This also goes for me I did turn a blind eye to what I knew was going on .I just don’t know how much of a loss he needs because it was quite the jolt when I left and said take whatever you want I’ll replace it . H does attempt to ask me questions I keep answers on the brief side as much as I can and move along . I am always so grateful for this group because it brings me back to the basics sometimes . Just learning to listen and hear is huge for me . I tend to ignore and move along .
Just adding on some more thoughts I have been processing through . Learning to take time and just work through them . I’m still being hawked at home so a nice break today to have H out of the house working . Starting to really look deep into the post others have written mainly about MLC and depression and loathing . As H continues to just pour a lot out on this end it’s kinda sad to hear how dark he felt for so long , how jealous he was of friendships, accomplishments , bonds or how I handled life . Odd thing was said H stated a started looking at you differently a few months ago , what I wanted in my life it was the first time my head felt on straight and not fogged up in years. I loved my wife and was working on giving us that marriage we both wanted . I wanted to leave because I figured there was no coming back from this one . I validate and say that must have been very hard to go through . So here I sit just trucking along trying to continue to smell the roses and carrying on happily . Plan on spending some time gardening today and just enjoying the sunlight .
I don’t know I fully realized until recently how hard this would be again to do . H continues to follow me around when home . Telling me he loves me to the point of nausea. Complimenting me . This has been going on for months but more of an uptick of it now . Randomly other night I’m assuming it was middle of night . H says I really love you more than anything and I’m sick that I hurt you this bad. I responded I know because I didn’t know what to say . I’m still working on getting better at my hearing skills and validating . Feels good to not be so chatty and just listening because that little voice really wanted to just give it to him but I didn’t and for that I’m proud. But also paying more attention to actions a bit more . New clothes were definitely noticed but I don’t really care H noticed ,feels good just to dress nicer. I’m struggle when I read about people changing and growing for themselves as I have been for many years content and very happy with my path ,with who I am and how I manage my life . The more I look back at the last two years of me saying nothing about H and his habits and A ,maybe I was unintentionally DB and not even realizing it. I continued on with life . Continued to do things I loved and built a stronger network around me with solid life long relationships . Ignored his craziness to the best of my ability. The deeper I dive in there’s not much I would change except standing up for myself a little bit more . But I also didn’t take it lying down either . Over the last year I have said multiple times I deserve someone who wants to be with me and build a life . If that’s not you then go but don’t string me along and throw me bread crumbs . At some point I’m going to have to talk to H because I can only validate for so long and move along . I have been asked countless times by H to just talk about me .I respond with I need a lot more time and some space .
I don’t know I fully realized until recently how hard this would be again to do . H continues to follow me around when home . Telling me he loves me to the point of nausea. Complimenting me . This has been going on for months but more of an uptick of it now . Randomly other night I’m assuming it was middle of night . H says I really love you more than anything and I’m sick that I hurt you this bad. I responded I know because I didn’t know what to say . I’m still working on getting better at my hearing skills and validating . Feels good to not be so chatty and just listening because that little voice really wanted to just give it to him but I didn’t and for that I’m proud. But also paying more attention to actions a bit more . New clothes were definitely noticed but I don’t really care H noticed ,feels good just to dress nicer. I’m struggle when I read about people changing and growing for themselves as I have been for many years content and very happy with my path ,with who I am and how I manage my life . The more I look back at the last two years of me saying nothing about H and his habits and A ,maybe I was unintentionally DB and not even realizing it. I continued on with life . Continued to do things I loved and built a stronger network around me with solid life long relationships . Ignored his craziness to the best of my ability. The deeper I dive in there’s not much I would change except standing up for myself a little bit more . But I also didn’t take it lying down either . Over the last year I have said multiple times I deserve someone who wants to be with me and build a life . If that’s not you then go but don’t string me along and throw me bread crumbs . At some point I’m going to have to talk to H because I can only validate for so long and move along . I have been asked countless times by H to just talk about me .I respond with I need a lot more time and some space .
I'm not sure why you are allowing all of this verbal spew. Words mean nothing without actions.
Listening and Validating is one thing... but this isn't what's happening here. Your H can't "handle" what he did/does - so he alleviates that guilt by apologizing over and OVER. It doesn't mean anything until there is consistent actions behind it. It doesn't mean anything until YOU FEEL DIFFERENT.
Why not set a boundary on a few of these things? Like following you around or saying "I love you" all the time.
You have asked for space and he's not giving it to you. How can YOU enforce that boundary? You can't control him. If he won't give you space.. it's up to YOU to end the conversation. It's up to YOU to walk out of the room.
It's up to YOU to prioritize your needs above his needs. Being "understanding" w/o boundaries has helped get you here. It does no good doing the same thing and expecting different results.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
Thank you Valseka19. Needed that one . I have given a few boundaries . Example I do not want to hear you are sorry anymore . H has stuck to that one . Another one was if you are honest I’m not going to raise my voice . Which he saw a complete different side of me when he was denying cheating . I’m one of those people sometimes they gotta know you are not a fool either .It’s very odd for someone who ran a muck for 18 months he has this weird fear of me or something . Example of the I love you I am getting . H comes home from work last few months earlier than he had been while A was going on . I’m cooking dinner . Kids got to eat . I do too . Walks in says hello . I say hi , continue cooking . Then it’s the I’m really glad to be here and home . I love you . I usually continue cooking . Last night I made a plate and went outside to eat alone . Everyone followed . Yes I’m that mom they all follow . So H comes out small talk how was my day . I respond good . Then he starts talking about his day . Kids standing around chatting about school and their day . Can’t exactly just get up and walk away or tell him I want space with the kids there . I also am not just going to get up and go sit inside either . I’m happy outside with my kids and even when they go and run off up the hill I’m not missing those moments of just watching them enjoy life because he wants to spew . Suggestions ? On a scale of 1-10. I’m at a 2 with feeling different . Just time and consistency for me is huge .
Thank you Valseka19. Needed that one . I have given a few boundaries . Example I do not want to hear you are sorry anymore . H has stuck to that one . Another one was if you are honest I’m not going to raise my voice . Which he saw a complete different side of me when he was denying cheating . I’m one of those people sometimes they gotta know you are not a fool either .It’s very odd for someone who ran a muck for 18 months he has this weird fear of me or something . Example of the I love you I am getting . H comes home from work last few months earlier than he had been while A was going on . I’m cooking dinner . Kids got to eat . I do too . Walks in says hello . I say hi , continue cooking . Then it’s the I’m really glad to be here and home . I love you . I usually continue cooking . Last night I made a plate and went outside to eat alone . Everyone followed . Yes I’m that mom they all follow . So H comes out small talk how was my day . I respond good . Then he starts talking about his day . Kids standing around chatting about school and their day . Can’t exactly just get up and walk away or tell him I want space with the kids there . I also am not just going to get up and go sit inside either . I’m happy outside with my kids and even when they go and run off up the hill I’m not missing those moments of just watching them enjoy life because he wants to spew . Suggestions ? On a scale of 1-10. I’m at a 2 with feeling different . Just time and consistency for me is huge .
I have suggestions - but it is not gonna feel comfortable for you. However I feel like you will see how seriously "sorry" he is. And if he is at all interested in making amends. As they say - the proof is in the pudding.
"H - I have asked for space and time. I understand that this may be very broad so here is HOW i am asking for space.
1. Please refrain from telling me that you love me. 2. Let's please keep our conversations to about the kids. 3. Last night when I went to eat outside to eat alone - it would be great if you could give me that space 4. Although i completely understand how difficult it is to "live" with your actions, I am not the appropriate the person to talk to about this. Please find someone else as I do not wish to hear how "sick" you feel. 5. "Please sleep in a different room at night"
If you don't want to "miss the moment" then maybe try to not be a spectator with the kids. Run up the hill with them and leave your husband on the porch. Or if not possible - don't watch in the same area. If the kids can't hear you can say. "I'm focused on the kids and don't want to speak rightnow"
In some ways I can understand you not wanting to upset your kids... but you have to ask yourself "What am I showing them". If you don't stand up for yourself... then your kids won't learn to stand up for themselves. And that is a painful way to live a life.
Overall - You are just too available for him. It's a comfortable place for you even though any reader can see how painful/confusing being "available" is for you.
Take ALL of your energy previously used on H and turn it towards you. Stay in the uncomfortable, don't be afraid to rock the boat. I know it "feels" like there is much to lose - but the truth is that it is already gone. There is freedom to now be the person you were destined to be.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
Over the last year I have said multiple times I deserve someone who wants to be with me and build a life . If that’s not you then go but don’t string me along and throw me bread crumbs.
True... but that someone is actually YOU. Make sure YOU aren't throwing yourself breadcrumbs. Make sure YOU aren't only words but actions too.
One step at a time. You got this.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
1. Stop telling /texting me everywhere you are and checking in ( been having an uptick of this for months , it’s annoying ) 2. I do not wish to talk about our R for quite awhile if I’m outside you can always come play with kids but leave me be 3. I need time and space allow me this
H responded ok you deserve that and I will do that for you . H arrived home from work earlier than he has in few years . Not for me but to take the kids out for a few hours . Which was much appreciated. Kids enjoyed this very much . H has always been very active with kids , never been a huge issue to begin with .
Oh the boundaries being tested this week . I requested to not talk R until I’m ready . Didn’t mean for that one to strike a cord with H but it did . So be it . Random message from H about something within R. Along the lines of I don’t want you going through this alone . I’m here and will listen . Didn’t go over well with me . H was a bit taken back when I didn’t bite but he brought it up later again casually .So I said not mean but direct -I asked you not to bring anything up right now and give me space and you broke that . H responded I do not want you ignoring anything that is bothering you or just walking around holding things in until you want to end this. My response I was very proud of. I’m not holding anything in nor will I . I’m processing through everything at my own pace and time allow me this time .I want an equal spouse and will not settle for a relationship that I turned a blind eye to ever again . H took it like a champ and said he was sorry and when I’m ready he will just listen .
Actions speak louder than words . I have continued to do the things I love . Spend a lot of time with the kids always my biggest source of joy . Been enjoying shopping for me here or there . Building my friendships outside of my family with my small group I have . On the H action front H is spending an enormous amount of time home like he has been for the last few months but since BD noticeably even more . Much appreciated to have him keep helping out . I was drowning for many years . Continues to not be on his phone at all and puts it in clear view -odd but nothing to do about that one , which was a huge thing for a long time during A. But the one action that seems a bit different in the last few days I notice is he has the odd sense of calm and smiles when he comes home . Even to just say hello when he walks in . Just a tad refreshing actually.
It’s been 2 weeks since I put down some boundaries . I took some time to get my head a bit stronger and really look at the type of marriage I have had the last few years . The more I looked and when I say I looked . I went back through two years of text messages between me and H. I am taking zero responsibility for any of this. It was actually shocking to see it all play out . The amount of messages I received about having a great day with H and how much he loved me then 3 days later a complete switch to him being “ missing “ “cold” “distant “ mind blowing . Full blown A brain . My response was always the same when you invest time in your marriage you see the result . When you choose to not spend time . You also see the result . There is one that has been just stuck in my mind from Nov that I sent . “ This is a prison you have created for me . I have to choose giving up half my time with my children to save myself from you . You do just enough that I won’t make you leave and play on my weakness “ every word of this is so true .
It’s been 5 weeks since BD. 4 months that H has planted himself home and changed his ways . I ve let go of the time he said he’s moving out after BD because he is not going anywhere even if he’s thought it was a knee jerk reaction to getting “ caught “ 2 months after he ended it . He is here to stay unless I file for divorce and end it . He’s weak and a shadow of who I married .
I decided to actually sit down and speak to him . My silence on this is slowly killing him but also slowly building me . Could care less about his slow death as he brought that on himself . It may have not been in the right divorce busting style but I started with if you love your A partner so much just go . I am not interested in co habitation in a half marriage or half effort . I will not continue to be a support system to your craziness or your source of comfort during hard times . I will co parent with you . You will not step foot in my home after you leave and will allow me the space to heal from all you have done .
H silence was deafening. After a few minutes H did speak up . I did not cheat on you for love . I did it because I am not proud to say but out of jealousy and weakness . You have everything . The better job . The higher income . The children love you more . It’s like I live in your shadow. And rather than being your support I wanted to watch you fail and hurt you. And you don’t fail and still are not. Every friendship you have you keep at just that . I thought the worst of you because those were thoughts I had myself of me . She is going to keep improving and not need or want me . I did the worst thing I could have ever done and rather than speaking up it ate me alive until I loathed you and tried to put on a happy front while cheating .I’ve learned while doing counseling none of this is you . It’s all me . I need to learn that it’s fine to speak up . That is fine my children go to mom . She is their comfort . Just because my wife does not tell me everyday I look nice does not mean she doesn’t love me . And is not a reason to look elsewhere for that . My wife shows me she loves me in many different ways . My counselor was actually shocked I had an affair on someone I still was “sleeping” with you 2-3 nights a week . For all of it I am wrong and will do whatever it takes to make you feel secure again and love you the way you deserve . I’m not going anywhere . Whatever you need or want access to please tell me . I’ll show you . I’ll give it to you . I don’t love A partner and never did . It was a void I filled that you didn’t make . I did in my head .
I didn’t give too much of a response besides I need time and a lot of it .
It’s been 2 weeks since I put down some boundaries . I took some time to get my head a bit stronger and really look at the type of marriage I have had the last few years . The more I looked and when I say I looked . I went back through two years of text messages between me and H. I am taking zero responsibility for any of this. It was actually shocking to see it all play out . The amount of messages I received about having a great day with H and how much he loved me then 3 days later a complete switch to him being “ missing “ “cold” “distant “ mind blowing . Full blown A brain . My response was always the same when you invest time in your marriage you see the result . When you choose to not spend time . You also see the result . There is one that has been just stuck in my mind from Nov that I sent . “ This is a prison you have created for me . I have to choose giving up half my time with my children to save myself from you . You do just enough that I won’t make you leave and play on my weakness “ every word of this is so true .
It’s been 5 weeks since BD. 4 months that H has planted himself home and changed his ways . I ve let go of the time he said he’s moving out after BD because he is not going anywhere even if he’s thought it was a knee jerk reaction to getting “ caught “ 2 months after he ended it . He is here to stay unless I file for divorce and end it . He’s weak and a shadow of who I married .
I decided to actually sit down and speak to him . My silence on this is slowly killing him but also slowly building me . Could care less about his slow death as he brought that on himself . It may have not been in the right divorce busting style but I started with if you love your A partner so much just go . I am not interested in co habitation in a half marriage or half effort . I will not continue to be a support system to your craziness or your source of comfort during hard times . I will co parent with you . You will not step foot in my home after you leave and will allow me the space to heal from all you have done .
H silence was deafening. After a few minutes H did speak up . I did not cheat on you for love . I did it because I am not proud to say but out of jealousy and weakness . You have everything . The better job . The higher income . The children love you more . It’s like I live in your shadow. And rather than being your support I wanted to watch you fail and hurt you. And you don’t fail and still are not. Every friendship you have you keep at just that . I thought the worst of you because those were thoughts I had myself of me . She is going to keep improving and not need or want me . I did the worst thing I could have ever done and rather than speaking up it ate me alive until I loathed you and tried to put on a happy front while cheating .I’ve learned while doing counseling none of this is you . It’s all me . I need to learn that it’s fine to speak up . That is fine my children go to mom . She is their comfort . Just because my wife does not tell me everyday I look nice does not mean she doesn’t love me . And is not a reason to look elsewhere for that . My wife shows me she loves me in many different ways . My counselor was actually shocked I had an affair on someone I still was “sleeping” with you 2-3 nights a week . For all of it I am wrong and will do whatever it takes to make you feel secure again and love you the way you deserve . I’m not going anywhere . Whatever you need or want access to please tell me . I’ll show you . I’ll give it to you . I don’t love A partner and never did . It was a void I filled that you didn’t make . I did in my head .
I didn’t give too much of a response besides I need time and a lot of it .
I actually didn’t respond because I didn’t believe most of what he said . You don’t loath or dislike someone that much and continue to sleep with them as much as we did . That sounds more like an addiction . I’m slowly coming to terms with he is going to do this again . Maybe not now . But he will .
I actually didn’t respond because I didn’t believe most of what he said . You don’t loath or dislike someone that much and continue to sleep with them as much as we did . That sounds more like an addiction . I’m slowly coming to terms with he is going to do this again . Maybe not now . But he will .
Your on the right track.
Believe actions not words and at this point I have no idea what action you would believe. Definitely not his words.
Sounds like H’s counsellor is facilitating him looking inward a bit. It will be interesting to see how much of H’s “insights” stick. Actions vs words. (One positive action is H continuing therapy.)
Be kind and cordial, and continue on your path.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I am reminded of several sayings here. Just going from memory...
- You didn't talk your way into this, you won't talk your way out. - It takes consistent actions over time to be believed
There are several good lists in this forum of what it takes for a wayward spouse to return. Actions. Verified by former wayward spouses. I'll try and find them later if you haven't seen them yet.
Here is one:
Originally Posted by sandi2
It's easier, for me, to list some things the WW will need to do in order to reconcile, honestly and completely, with her H. If you see something that needs to be added, feel free. ................. Keep in mind, these things will not all come about at one time. Neither will she be able to know without someone guiding her. It is really important she has help or coaching from an unbiased source who is pro-marriage and is familiar with piecing after an affair.
Thank you for the resource . H has been touching on many of the items on Sandis list . H is still very consistent. I just can’t even organize my thoughts of where a real starting point would be. Anything I throw at him he just does or anticipates and makes sure it’s not an issue . I find the hardest struggle for me is the insanity H went through in order begin to come to this place of change or peace . It was very destructive on me . I’m not the same person and have not been for a very long time now . I got very used to being alone a lot . Doing everything for me and the kids. Struggling to just hold all together for the family unit. H is really trying . I can see it and feel it whether I want to or not . He’s happy home . He can do and say all the right things but I’m never going to look at this man the same . It’s not even the affair . It’s the mental game he played for years on me . The countless times I asked for help . The times I was just being swallowed by quick sand and he got up and left . It turns my stomach to see how content he is home .
Caligirl, I was thinking a couple other things even before your reply...
Like the advice to the LBS -
your changes have to be for YOU, or they are not genuine and will not stick.
This would apply to your H. Are they being made for you? or for HIM and they will stick whether you are there or not?
... and in organizing my dozens of open DB tabs I found a reply and discussion from the perspective of a person who was in the fog. It may lend some perspective.
Originally Posted by Wonka replying to TSquared2
IF she wants back in, these are the questions I want answered:
What has changed that brought about this desire?
In my experience, it was a slow and gradual realization that my chit was mine to own and it was all on me all a long. As I've regaled in my previous threads, I came out of the fog and the picture was almost Claritin clear to me. Same thing occurred to Raine's and rH's husbands when they slowly shifted their feet back into their marital home. This process comes in dribbles. Usually doesn't happen in a fell swoop.
The desire also comes back ever so gradually. This isn't The Notebook movie you're viewing starring you and your W. Sorry to put a damper on this scenario in your head, buddy.
This is the MLCer mind at work. This is something you need to be mindful.
After I posted I realized that my phrasing could be confusing. Revised *** This would apply to your H. Are the changes he is making, being made for you? or is he making them for himself, to be a better man, and they will stick whether you are there or not? *** g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23 DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W moves out 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
Always good to read back on some older threads. Not all stiches are the same but they all have so many of the same qualities to them . I think for myself I made changes a long time ago . Even within the last few years I would say most of my growth happened and stuck . The GAL I enjoy is traveling with my kids and my friends . I did a lot of this alone with them and if I’m being honest the trips I took alone without H were the ones I enjoyed the most. The chaos and tone he would bring was very off putting . I became very independent and just continued on with what I wanted to do and brought me happiness .I can look back and really only see the one thing I would change . I allowed myself to be comfortable and ignore being treating so poorly by my spouse and allowing bread crumbs and cake eating. But I do not know if I would even change that because it also taught me what I want and expect from H now . Reflection is a useful tool for me . I take quite a bit of time throughout my day. I am happy with my life and who I am . I feel like I went on the journey to find out who I am a long time ago . So either I am going to allow H to begin to repair or I am going to just move on alone . But no decision needs to be made today .
I really read over the post of questions that they wanted answered . For me it’s not as many . I did decide to ask H a few :
What are you doing or plan on doing in order for me to begin to trust you again ?
H - this is a tough one . You do not ask to look at my phone . You do not ask where I am . You ask me nothing. You do not want location put on my phone . So I try to give you as much information in small doses as I can . You haven’t even asked me not to see my friends but I’m taking a big step back from that too . I do my best to come home on time . You asked for consistent behavior and I know it will take time . I talk to my counselor about ways to improve myself and gain trust . Sometimes it’s hard because it’s not like you are walking around crying. You are just quiet so I let you be quiet and know I am just home if you need anything .
I did get hit with a return question from H. What makes you think I can’t do this ? My response was simple, maybe a bit defensive but simple . I never said u couldn’t then I asked the next question .
Why do you want to repair this marriage ?
H- I never want to live like that again . It was awful . The guilt ate me alive . You have no idea how much better I feel not living like that or knowing I never what to live like that again . It’s not only for us I am doing this . My children deserve a whole family . They learn from me how an H should treat a W. I’m embarrassed of what I have taught them . I also want to teach them you learn from your mistakes and show you are apologetic by new behavior.
Now he’s either got a really good counselor, been given some very powerful drugs or just full of it until I trust him again .
I don't post too often these days, but I saw your thread and wanted to post to you. I am so sorry at you have returned.
Some of these crisis people come back to the relationship too soon and go back into crisis mode at a later time. When they do this, it creates even more heartache for the family and trust is even more difficult to earn when they finally want to return and repair the damage that they created.
Your h reminds me of a teen who had done something wrong and feels very guilty for what he's done. He's scared of what the future holds for him and he wants to know that "mom" is okay and willing to allow him to remain in the home and yes, forgive him. He's afraid that you have moved on and basically are going through the motions each and every day. He doesn't understand why you aren't reacting, i.e., crying, etc. In his mind, he doesn't realize just how much you have grown during this crisis. You may look the same, but you have learned to be more independent. He is looking for the woman he left behind and he doesn't realize that the changes that you made for you are permanent and you will not be going back to the way you were years ago.
He doesn't understand that trust has to be earned. It is not handed out like a coupon. Actions speak louder than words. Those actions need to be consistent.
He also doesn't realize that you do not want to discuss every little thing right now. You need time to process and heal. He needs to understand that you are not ready. He needs to accept your decision, i.e., if you aren't ready to discuss things and leave it be. It will take some time for that wall you have built around your heart to come down. It sure doesn't happen with a flip of the switch. The damage these crisis people create takes a lot of time to recover from.
He is saying all of the right things, but I get the feeling that he is in panic mode and will say anything and/or do anything to keep you in his life. I may be wrong on that assumption, but he is really trying to alleviate his guilt for what he has done to you and your family.
You have every right to question his actions/words. Caligirl, stay the course. You will know, in time, if his actions will match up with his words. For now, let him be. This man has a lot of internal work to do on himself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Thank you for the response . The one thing I learned with this go around was this is not a quick fix for him and it may never be fixable for me . I try not to dwell on that and just keep doing things I enjoy doing . It is also a big adjustment for me having another parent in the home for the majority of the time after work now . I am very accustomed to how the household runs and I know it may sound a little cheesy but the vibe in the home . I set the tone for years . I am by far the calmer parent of the two of us . More a watcher and nurturer. It’s not that it’s a bad thing H is home more it’s just a change for everyone . The kids have begun asking what time H is coming home because they do enjoy the playfulness he brings . So I just roll with it for now . Last week H came home a lot earlier from work than his usual last few months . Kids were off playing with their friends . Usual stuff . He looked baffled and asked this is what the house is like in the evenings , you are alone a lot . I just said yes this is what the kids do and how the household runs after school . Kids play . Sometimes I go . Sometimes I start cooking . He looked utterly confused . I wanted to say news flash buddy you got a wife and kids but I just moved along . The guilt gets me on and off with that one . I don’t speak about it with H . But it’s a real reality that I may face that I’m just not in it for the long haul . But again . I don’t dwell and really do try to move along and keep things light . One day I’ll figure it out but not today .
It’s not a far stretch what you said about H not recognizing the person he left behind years ago . I barely recognize the person I was 5 years ago . Even if you take my marriage out of the last 5 years . Major growth spurts in parenting style , my own education , financial independence and just overall values and beliefs was huge and as you say there’s no going back . H said something interesting 2 weeks ago when I threw out a couple questions . H said I never want to live like that again . Well guess what that makes two of us .
Time will tell with this one . Actions are still the same . Counseling for him . He’s home . Active parent . He has been giving me some more emotional space which is a change and needed . Not pressuring me with the I’m sorry anymore or to talk R.
Thanks for taking the time . I pop on every few days and read others posts as well . Sometimes I just want to reach out and hug all of them .
I got a little roped into a conversation with H regarding finances. Small background . I make quite a bit more money than H. Within the last 5 years this was a change . H was the bread winner but with schooling and promotions this has changed. We always had our own accounts plus a joint . We each contributed to joint on our pay days . I manage and always have paying this bills . Over the last 2 years H had an extra job that brought in extra income . I never monitored it or really even took note . Looking back this is how he funded the A. He quit the job back in May since he planted himself home and from what I remember I pretty much knew that’s when he ended A.
So this week his transmission went on his car . Since BD I have placed no money in joint accounts or minimal if he had to run to grab stuff for our children . Obviously as the one making much more money I know the car needs to be fixed . He has always maintained the status quo of contributing to the household and still has . I told H get the car fixed and I’ll move the money over . I got hit with I don’t like not knowing where all “our” money is . Not sure I responded correctly but at this point im giving a tad bit of wiggle room . My response “ you can know where the money is when I have access to all your personal accounts “. I must say for a minute it went exactly as I thought he said no im not giving you those. I said ok and walked away . H followed me and said I’ll print out the last 5 months of records right now but im embarrassed of the 18 months before and don’t want you to see all the hotels and money I spent . If I give you the password you will look back . It’s bad . Really bad . I gave you the most amount of grief about traveling with the kids and your friends while I was hiding money and being irresponsible . Kudos for honesty but oh boy .
I left it be right there . I needed to process that one .
You did the right thing. You put the ball back into his court and if he wants to be completely transparent with you, he will give you the password. He isn't thinking that you already have connected the dots of many of his activities. Yes, he should be embarrassed about how much money he has spent foolishly when he could have been contributing more to the family.
Continue to process what he said. I wouldn't say another word about it unless he brings it up again. He needs to understand that you are more than willing to assist in repairing his car, but he needs to be transparent as well.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
My response “ you can know where the money is when I have access to all your personal accounts “. I must say for a minute it went exactly as I thought he said no im not giving you those. I said ok and walked away .
Well done.
I’m much impressed with how you just said ok, and walked away. Perfect! No fighting. No arguing. Just you controlling you.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
I’m much impressed with how you just said ok, and walked away. Perfect! No fighting. No arguing. Just you controlling you.
D
Me too.
And you have required what is required....
Everything I have ever read, here or elsewhere, says eventually complete transparency is required. Even if you never go look...the accountability it offers is required.
Embarrassing? of course. Shameful? of course. but you cannot have trust without accountability and transparency offered.
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23 DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W moves out 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
If I’m being truly honest even if or when he decides to give me the bank password I’m still not giving him access to my income . Those days are long gone and may never return . I already know the hotel meet up location and have copies of the receipts . His A partner was so kind to send me those in the “anonymous “ letter . Insert sarcasm . H car got fixed . I sent over the money .He did attempt to touch on it again a day later . Shut that right down . Co-horting finances is just not even happening .
On a more fun note . “We” meaning us an entire family had a large wedding to attend on my side . My sister made a comment regarding H about how happy he looks and she hasn’t seen him like that in years . My father asked me how I was doing with everything . I said I’m just here for now haven’t made up my mind on anything yet . Got to love a dads love for his daughter . Dads response you are here for now until he does this again and now you are much more prepared for the exit . Touché
Thoughts for this week on my end . Guilt is heavy on my head and heart .
Home life has been so calm with kids and H . H is still doing the same consistent behavior . Counseling , being home and not pressuring me into any R talk.
On my end . I’m just doing my thing still . Spending a lot of time with the kids . That’s my GAL. We go everywhere . On occasion spending time out with my girlfriends for a quick bite or catch up . Decorating for holidays which is almost stress relief for me . Must I add retail therapy . I truly find joy in taking care of others . It took me a long time to feel as though this was ok . For years everyone had told me worry about you . Over time I realized this was me and learned to embrace it . Oddly enough I resemble more of the parent my father is the older I get . The planner and have joy from just sitting back and taking in the view of what you planned . I don’t have any childhood trauma . Grew up in a normal household with 2 loving parents who still spend every minute together . My father struggles the most out of the family I told because he never was like this nor even thought of it . Very strong supportive of kick him to the curb , you didn’t deserve any of this and will be in the same position again . Leave and do not look back .
Here comes the guilt . I’ve been noticing how happy my children are having two active parents in the household . They ask now everyday what time is daddy coming home and I’m able to give them a solid answer and he’s there on time . Mostly though I have just recently started to lean them H way a little more . Example would be : I’m cooking and they would normally walk past my H to ask me for help or most nights he wouldn’t even be there . Routine was always kids just go to mom . But now I started saying daddy’s right over there , moms cooking see if daddy can help . H smiles and always helps them . 6 months ago if he was home it would be a reason why he couldn’t help or would tell them to wait . Insert the guilt - I don’t know I can keep going like this . I am deathly scared to ask him to leave for fear of the fall out with the kids . They are just so darn happy the last few months . On the other hand I’m deathly scared to put myself back into a marriage even a baby step in where I had a non existent spouse emotionally . I just do not see myself ever trusting this man again . The things that for short times overwhelm my thoughts are the conversations where I said I know you are cheating and have been for a long time . Do not throw it in my face . I’m not following you around nor do I have the time or want to . I know for a fact those conversations were repeated -hence why the letter came months later because A partner knew I wasn’t looking for it and didn’t really pay too much mind to it . So it was a get even when H ended it or maybe a last ditch effort to get H to leave in their grand scheme of things . The more I read about A trauma the more I start to realize . Healing from it is not an easy road . But also deep down there’s a big part of my heart that knows I may forgive him . I may love him . But he has the capabilities of doing this and doing it again . Is that someone I really want to spent the next 50 years with in sacrifice of my children being happy .
I understand what you are going through. It's not easy to trust someone who has hurt you so deeply. You can forgive (at some point), but you won't forget. Trust isn't just handed over, it needs to be earned.
You have decide what is best for you physically, mentally and emotionally. I know you are thinking about this situation 24/7 because he is right under the same roof. We do not judge here. As we point out, even if they want to return, we, the lbs, ultimately are the ones that will decide whether to try and work things out or move on.
Here's a thought, have you tried resetting the relationship? Start out as friends, have a date night, do something together and then include the kids into the activities? Sometimes, they expect us to sweep the crisis under the rug and sometimes when they return home, we are looking for things to get back to normal and neither party is emotionally/mentally ready for that. Sometimes, we just need to leave them be and just focus on ourselves. After all, we are way ahead of them when it comes to healing and we have learned how to live on our own and be independent and self-sufficient. They don't understand that we can't go back to being the people that they walked away from. That the nightmare was just that a horrible dream that you wake up from and continue on with your day. They still are thinking like teenagers and think we should just wipe the slate clean...not happening. We, the lbs, have to re-evaluate our lives and what we want/need to make us happy and fulfilled with our lives.
Give yourself a break. You've dealt with a lot and it's going to take some time for the muddy waters to clear up so that you can see where you are going.
Continue posting...you need this safe place to lay out your thoughts.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Anyone who knows the real me knows I just have such a sweet spot for the kids . Not even just my own . My nieces and nephews , fun aunt . Kids run when they see me coming and I run to them . Such a source of joy for me . Watching my kids world just fall back in place is a very strong pull . The calmness and peace they have right now is just how their lives need to be .
I may take you up on doing a reset . I did one for a few months after I knew A ended . We have never been a love less couple and we were getting back into a good place best we had been in a few years . A lot of up and down from him prior to May but not much since except few days after letter came from A partner . H does on occasion talk to me about his counseling after the house is quiet .I listen for some of it . Try not to get too involved . That’s just a deep mess right there . The parts about living a double life almost and why he felt the need to do it . Utter madness when I hear it . Small doses . At this point I don’t even want to see the bank account prior to May . I’ve heard enough .
Was odd last night . H had a meeting a little later than normal . I don’t really question much . I never have and it’s just not in me to be a hawk wife. H came home said hello like he usually does . Played with kids , as typical men do scarfed down dinner . I stayed put . I guess he sometimes has just as good of a read on me as I do him . He just looked at me and said “you can trust this today “. I didn’t say anything back and nodded . I didn’t know what to say because really for some reason I just had a tough day . I wanted to blurt out I want a divorce you killed any dream I had for this family . But I let it pass . H has it written all over him that he’s here and doesn’t plan on going anywhere . Just as he had his A written all over him too . I do give him credit he keeps pushing on with the new status quo while I’m hanging in the mud some days .
I decided to test the waters emotionally for me with H. Oh boy this is way different than the few months I did a reset back in late spring . I tried to keep it light so we I asked H if he wanted to go this town 45 minutes away . They have live music on Sunday and some nice outdoor dining and shopping . H jumped on the invite . Ran he ran up in shower and took off like a bandit to go vacuum his car so it was spotless , took kids with him while I got dressed . Came back with flowers . Insert - over kill .
The drive was just awkward. I’m noticeably more quiet . This is hard to change . I’ve learned to not engage with H nearly as much because for years it was painful to talk on deaf ears . This not only goes with him but was a big life change last few years . You cause me pain or no good to my life I only engage when I have to but emotionally since BD he gets little reaction from me .
The date - once we walked around and had a glass of wine it was a lot easier . We had a lot of fun . Did some dancing . Shopping . Food was phenomenal.
Then he let me have it . He has been somewhat reserved last few weeks with R talk . Well here it came over dinner . H - I’m just so sorry . I know you don’t want to hear it again . I can’t even believe you are still here . I promise to be here and never do anything like that again . You have no idea how many times I wanted to just tell you . I couldn’t . I thought you would leave . I hid everything and tried to put on a show but you saw through it . No one would ever tolerate or be as strong as you are . I mean it when I say I really love you .
My response - stop saying you are sorry ! I get it you are sorry . Im here and I do love you , but these last few years have changed the dynamic of how I want to live and what type of spouse I want . You are doing really good , really good ….. Keep doing what you are doing and more of it . It’s not easy on this side of the table . You see a strong person but it takes work to get to this point . This is not an easy fix and will take time . I left it there because he agreed.
Went home . Spent the evening with the kids . Status quo for him . Though now he’s been super clingy and chatty .
Your name is very near and dear to my heart. I call my D Caligirl. That's not her name but it is what I often call her.
In reading through your thread, it is great to see the tables turned. Just like we read. Eventually, the LBS has the choice. It's a hard choice to make after all you've had to endure, do, feel, strengthen. Lots of sweat and tears. It's nice to hear that he's trying. And, while it may be a day late and $1 short, he's now awake and remorseful. I love the strength you bring to the relationship. You know what you deserve. You know your worth. You know what you will and won't tolerate. I'm so happy for you. You'll make the right decision. For you and for your kids.
hugs
H:49 W:49 M:26; T:32 D21; S23 BD1: Feb 2023 (I think it was a BD) BD2: Sept 2023 Moved out: Dec 2023
So post date last week H has been upkicking his efforts to work on R. Little things . Sitting together doing normal things after kids settle down . Watch a movie, go for a stroll or just sit together on the back hill . It’s going somewhat ok I would say but I’m such a closed book . H asked me the other night why I do not ask him alot of questions and to just ask . I threw a few out there …. The main one being again what is so different now ? I just can’t wrap my head around this change last few months . It’s off putting the way someone can just crash and burn and then see the light . He did open up a bit with some new things . No matter how hard he ran there was always a part of him looking back for me .
It is difficult learning to trust again. Finding trust again. Feeling trust again.
It’s very common to wall up one’s heart against all the pain. It takes purposeful effort to keep one’s heart protected, and yet still soft and squishy. To not allow one’s heart to harden.
A hardening to the possibilities. A hardening to hope.
It takes time. Even an ‘act as if’ decision/choice. It’s counterintuitive. To open up to maybe getting hurt. Yet, maybe something far better.
A bit of a beginner’s mind is required. To see more what is presently before you, rather than behind you. That’s not to discard or disregard that which occurred, no sweeping under the rug, just embracing the opportunity. Slowly discovering how genuine and sincere H’s positive efforts truly are. While discovering how to reconcile what did happen.
The windshield is much bigger than the rear view mirror. Yet, what one focuses on will appear largest.
For what it’s worth, I think you’re doing fine.
Hope you have a great day.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Thank you I need someone once in awhile telling me I’m doing ok . I think what is hard for me the most is when we are all doing things together I feel ok . Kids happy , H happy I’m genuinely happy .When I’m alone or have time for myself I feel this pull of “ I could just end this marriage , I didn’t deserve any of this and eventually be ok alone “. It’s sad sometimes at night H will be sleeping and I’m awake just up . He looks so peaceful like his world is coming together and I’m over there just thinking how am I going to do this the rest of my life . Almost as if I’m the one living the double life . Eventually I calm myself and just have a little faith that in time maybe I will feel better.
Had a few good days at home and out and about . Enjoyed an evening with one of the kids alone . My GAL is my kids and when I’m older will be my grandkids . Went to ride some roller coasters . Had a ton of 1:1 fun .
My struggle this week could be validating but not approving . Could use some advice .
Example :
H : I’m really just happy and content . I like how I can talk to you now and how close I feel to you with communication .
Me: I was not and will not be close with someone or listen to them while they were cheating . That was your choice not to be close to your W.
Yes it just flew out my mouth ! It wasn’t a mean tone or anything like that . Just was very direct almost like an unspoken boundary I was stating . H just shook his head and kinda took it .
Love the roller coasters! The wilder the better... Except I usually can't do them anymore. A health incident in my 20s left me with motion sickness issues. I could ride maybe one or two, but will be left with a migraine for the next couple of days straight.
Doctors never did figure out what caused it. I was left without much balance for about 18 months after onset. Had to stop riding bikes and motorcycles for about two years. Ever since ... well ... I take about half my balance from visual or touch cues. I drag a finger along banisters for vertical orientation on stairs!
More seriously -
Sometimes a truth dart is just that. Maybe it was the right time and needed.
It WAS an unspoken boundary. Now it is spoken and clear and he knows exactly where it is. It may not have followed the formula "when you" "I feel" but the "if you" and "I will" following is pretty clear.
I think this can be combined with validating. And your boundary statement was not of a form condemning him or disapproving of him per say... It was about YOU
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23 DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W moves out 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
Sometimes, they need a truth dart to let them know how you feel. He should be aware of the fact that you aren't going to sweep the entire incident under the rug. You can't sweep something like this away. At some point, everything will need to be discussed and out in the open if you and your h are going to have a good foundation to rebuild your marriage on, i.e., especially the trust factor.
Don't beat yourself up. Truth darts can be healthy. You stated your thoughts, he knows what you think and now he needs time to digest what you have stated.
Keep moving forward. You are doing great. Reconnecting/reconciling is difficult when there has been a huge elephant in the room. Be gentle with yourself.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
I do not really know what else even needs to be talked about with H . I have a good idea of where his head was at and what went on . I also openly call BS if he even tries to shift blame in the slightest no wiggle room . In last few weeks there definitely is a noticeable change when he speaks . That confusion clearing up and taking responsibility. He has a more protective tone I would say . More he thinks about how I would feel before himself . I don’t think I have seen that in well over a decade . I did express some concern to him that I do not feel he knows how to manage a normal relationship that doesn’t have super highs and very low lows . He seeks these relationships whether friends or AP because he thrives off of the chaos . It is very noticeable to him that I don’t get on that rollercoaster over the last 4-5 years and just stay my pace . H is well aware I’m not jumping back on the rollercoaster ever again . The one topic that he has been talking about with his counselor and a lot more now with me is the guilt . The feeling he would have leaving and running to AP after spending days at home happy . How he would walk around with knots in his stomach . The relief he feels not living like that and just feeling whole again , peace. Wasn’t a truth dart but I do remind him that there was another person (me) who was on the receiving end of the fall out when he would run off and that I got very strong with just doing for me and the children . It’s not easy to trust. Sometimes when I speak to him it is just hard . I can see even if my words are in a kind tone the words just hurt . The reality of what he did and pain he caused . I can see and hear him just breathe and usually he looks like he is about to ball crying . Makes it hard for someone who has always had this soft side (me) to communicate . He doesn’t tell me not to talk quite the opposite it still goes against my grain.
On a lighter note I agreed to go away for a long weekend with H . He planned it . Is really just excited to spend some away time with me . I agreed to go and just have some fun snow tubing and hanging in a cabin he booked .
Enjoy the time away. The change of scenery will be good for both of you.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
