Really don't know how to put this all together without writing a novel.
First week of July my wife asked for separation/divorce. Had a lawyer.
After a couple weeks there was no movement. We had another talk and she was impressed with how I was handling the situation. She expected different. I convinced her to stop paying for the lawyer because we make the same money. Owe nothing outside of the mortgage. And have little savings outside of our pension.
She also agreed to hold off on me buying her out.
She did insist that she is still moving out.
10 days ago she decided to tell our kids what is happening. Kids were destroyed (12 year old twins). I expected her to leave shortly after but she has not.
A few days ago she presented me with a trial separation agreement and said she will leave this Saturday (2 days from now). She has not revisited the conversation.
I have convinced her to go to marriage counseling.
She, the other day also had an open conversation with me that she has been thinking and she is realizing that she has been blaming me for many issues that really have to do with her. But still has not pulled back from moving out.
10 years ago she had an affair. We had many years after that were great. I am over it. During this time we learned that she has severe postpartum depression.
The last few years haven't been great. I have been giving her space, which may have been the wrong approach.
Ultimately, it seems like she is trying to find herself. Her relationship with our kids is good not great. It is often compared toy relationship with them.
I'm sure this post is confusing and leaving out details. Please let me know where to expand.
Honestly, so very confused as to why she is not moving forward. (I don't want her to).
So sorry you find yourself here . She had an affair 10 years ago she very well may be tangled up in one again . I’m here for a second round recently . This is a great group of supportive members . Read all the resources they provide . I read them multiple times . The one point I always follow from this group is do not take the bait . My H also was adamant on telling the children he’s moving out . He’s also second guessing now or no progress but who knows . They speak in such absolutes .Also the she’s been thinking and blaming . Same convo . Laundry list of everything I did wrong one day to it’s me not you . They just gotta go through it . One of the hardest things I find is how to respond and learning what to respond without coming off mean . Continue to give lots of space .
Welcome to the boards. I’m sorry you found yourself in this situation.
Below, I’ll paste a copy of Cadet’s welcome thread for your reference. There are many links to a trove of useful information.
Have you read Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis? I highly recommend it.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I totally agree with Wonka. Do keep the book, this website, other DB sources, close to your vest. W is not on team Crmn at the present moment.
There are many kind and compassionate posters here with much hard-earned wisdom. A lot of the advice and suggestion you will receive will be counterintuitive (at first). It will sound wrong. It will seem like the incorrect way of behaving. We are programmed to react and grab and run after, when things are being unwillingly pulled away from us. One of everyone’s first and biggest battles is getting a handle on themselves.
Detachment is the single best thing you can do for yourself. Detachment is when words and behaviours from your W don’t uncontrollably drag your emotions around. It takes time. So be patient and gentle on yourself.
W appears very serious. A trial separation agreement, and her moving out in two days. Therefore, some of that counterintuitive important suggestions/advice for you:
Do not sign anything! Get a lawyer! I know you and her make similar income. However, joint assets, custody, pension, and so on. There are plenty of items that can have far reaching ramifications. Have legal guidance.
Speaking with a L doesn’t mean you are wanting a divorce. It is simply gathering information. Gathering your rights and entitlements. What can be waived, what cannot. How custody would work. What would/could happen with the house. And so on.
None of that need be acted upon. It is being fore-armed. Being prepared. W’s already dropped one bomb.
Time and space. Give W plenty of both.
W is upset, angry, mad, sad, unhappy, and such. And, to her, you are target number one of why. Right or not, she has painted a target on you. It’s how she feels. And she will pull together all kinds of past things, heck even make up things, to justify her choice(s). Do not feed on her narrative. Detach. Go dim/dark.
Dim/dark is the level of communication with her. This is not a magical tactic, as there are no magic answers. Dim/dark is for you. For your metal and emotional health and well-being. Limit conversing with W.
Also, employ the 24-48 rule. Unless an emergency, and I mean a real emergency, give yourself 24-48 hours before responding to W’s texts, calls, inquiries, etc. Two days for your emotions to settle so you can respond more logically and rationally. Even to seek advice before responding.
Focus on you and the twins. Get a life (GAL). Those truly are worthy. This is not a sprint, this is a marathon.
Be patient. You’ve got the gift of time. Use it wisely.
W needs to burn through her feelings. She feels a narrative that’s got some new shinny life. She needs to feel the loss before her emotions may change. That takes time. That takes space. You focus on you, GAL, live, and move forward. Leave her to her path. Drop the rope, or be dragged.
Marriage counselling. W likely agreed to it so she can utilize it as reasoning for her decision. I realize you have talked her into it. If you have no appointments yet, I’d not push. Let her take the lead.
I know, it feels wrong. Do realize, pressure will just push her away. Time and space are your allies.
I’ll stop here for today. Do keep posting. It really does/will help.
I look forward to conversing with you.
D
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Have a lawyer review the trial separation agreement. She definitely did. I also negotiated a separation agreement with my ex very early on. And even after two years in court, that initial agreement was pretty much identical to the final agreement. It's key to lay a foundation for your future. If you can, I would also recommend that you keep the marital residence and she move out. I did that. It was a great decision.
Really don't know how to put this all together without writing a novel.
Write away! Look at my posts... I try and keep it short but end up writing short stories. It ends up being a form of journaling for me. ... where I know people here understand.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
First week of July my wife asked for separation/divorce. Had a lawyer.
She has been detaching / planning for a while.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
A few days ago she presented me with a trial separation agreement and said she will leave this Saturday (2 days from now). She has not revisited the conversation.
It is written for HER interests. What are yours?
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
I have convinced her to go to marriage counseling.
So far as I know, this only works when BOTH parties are in it to make it work. If she is not, it won't.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
But still has not pulled back from moving out.
She made up her mind/feelings and screwed up courage to do it. It won't be that easy to change the momentum.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
10 years ago she had an affair. We had many years after that were great. I am over it. During this time we learned that she has severe postpartum depression.
Did you work THROUGH all the issues that led up to an affair? or are you just "over it" and put it behind you ... leaving the underlying issues to fester?
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
Honestly, so very confused as to why she is not moving forward. (I don't want her to).
It is scary, difficult, and confusing to the WAS also. You as plan b (are you OK with being plan b?) makes the transition easier for her. Possibly cake eating...
And so, work on yourself … because -
Originally Posted by Valeska19
What LBSs seem to not understand is that their WAS also grieve the loss of the relationship. It may look a little different but they too go through their own little emotional rollercoaster ride. Some weeks they may be sweet and text more, other weeks - they may be mad as dirt and spitting fire.
It can be very hard to grasp the idea that the WAS can miss their spouse... and still move forward with the divorce. Because of this.. the LBS will create false hope. They see positives that may not really be there. Their guard comes down and their changes are challenged. And if the changes aren't for them... this is when they go back to their old selves.
This is why we say things like "believe nothing they say and half of what they do" or "don't backtrack on your hard earned changes”
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23 DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W moves out 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
I am definitely on guard. I have been avoiding speaking about the situation as much as possible.
In regards to the counselling it seems she is on board. It does seem to make her think about herself and us a bit more than before.
I guess the parts that I'm having most trouble with are the following:
1. She went from full divorce with lawyers and buying her out of the house to no lawyer and let's not do anything with the house. I look at this as a positive, but maybe I shouldn't be. Surely it's better than full steam ahead?
2. The fact that she told the kids 2 weeks ago and is still here is making me upset for obvious reasons. If you are going to put them through that then you need to be ready no follow through no? I have taken them aside to let them know that Mom might still be leaving and that she is just working out some stuff. A reminder she has stated that the house she has is ready at any time. (No idea how she is paying for it).
3. Then there are the little, normally inconsequential statements in a normal scenario. For example last night she started talking about our streaming subscriptions and that we should consider the Netflix with ads tier. I responded sure and also made another suggestion and her response was that it needs to be a system the kids and I can use without having to come get you. WTF? Are you leaving or not? Cause if you are leaving the streaming services at my house should mean nothing to you. I'm sure this point is nothing - but still a strange direction for the conversation.
I empathize with how confusing this all is. Your marriage is going along, then kaboom. Pleading, begging, counselling, etc all to no avail. Realize it’s only sudden to you, W has likely been planning her exit for a while.
We all require a certain level of understanding, of rationalizing our situation before we can/will let go and detach. This takes time. And it’s a confusion time.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
1. She went from full divorce with lawyers and buying her out of the house to no lawyer and let's not do anything with the house. I look at this as a positive, but maybe I shouldn't be. Surely it's better than full steam ahead?
It’s really hard to know which would be better. Full steam ahead, may have had her feel consequences for her choices sooner, feel the loss of you and family and such. A slow pace, her sticking around, being still involved, allows W to see your self improvements more. See you moving forward and living and loving your life.
Do realize any improvements to you, any changes, make them for you! That way those positive changes will be permanent. W will tend to see any/all positive changes as an attempt to manipulate her back in to the relationship. Thus, you aren’t doing them for her, do for you.
This leads to a some guidelines and advice:
Do not manipulate W’s path. Like the above, which is better? Her leaving or staying? None of us can see all ends, so it is impossible to know for sure. Hence, just respond to her choice/path. Allow her to journey as she must.
It’s a matter of control. What do you control? Only three things. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions. That’s it. You cannot control W’s path. And attempts to do so usually end up pushing the spouse away.
As to understanding why W changed her direction and speed. Perhaps, her L told her how much she’d likely lose enacting things as she was going to. Or perhaps something else. It matters not. She is having second thoughts, for whatever reason that may be. You only need to respond, not steer.
To that end, leave the heavy-lifting to W.
To be clear, if you need financial security and/or protection, get it! Otherwise, leave the heavy-lifting to the spouse who wants out. You don’t place boulders on her path, yet you don’t pave her road in gold either. She wants out, let her figure it out. You only control you. How you respond.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
2. The fact that she told the kids 2 weeks ago and is still here is making me upset for obvious reasons. If you are going to put them through that then you need to be ready no follow through no? I have taken them aside to let them know that Mom might still be leaving and that she is just working out some stuff. A reminder she has stated that the house she has is ready at any time. (No idea how she is paying for it).
How she plans on bankrolling her new life and lifestyle is a question/concern. Do read her proposed agreement carefully, and have your L review it. Child support, mortgage, alimony, are all considerations which us LBS can be bamboozled on. Especially in the highly emotional state of freshly bomb dropped, and we’ve not been planning for months and months. An emotionally detached legal expert is an excellent pair of eyes to run things by.
Originally Posted by Crmnsrnn
3. Then there are the little, normally inconsequential statements in a normal scenario. For example last night she started talking about our streaming subscriptions and that we should consider the Netflix with ads tier. I responded sure and also made another suggestion and her response was that it needs to be a system the kids and I can use without having to come get you. WTF? Are you leaving or not? Cause if you are leaving the streaming services at my house should mean nothing to you. I'm sure this point is nothing - but still a strange direction for the conversation.
Yes, stuff like this is crazy-making. W is acting and walking around like normal. And she’s stated she wants out, is leaving, etc.
Believe nothing they say, and only half of what they do.
Look to her actions, more than her words. W’s emotions are all over the place too. Sad, angry, unhappy, excited, eager, etc. Focus on you. Let go. Go dim.
As Caligirl brought up. Affair. It is likely W is seeing someone. Most LBS would and do swear there is no one, and end up discovering an AP. Very very few leaving spouse are going on their own solo.
It is staggering how many spouses are embroiled in an affair. Martial problems never get better by bring a third person into the mix. Do realize, an affair means nothing. It is a band-aid, a symptom. It is indicative of a deep problem within W. Which has very little to do with you. Regardless of what W may or may not say.
Be it an emotional affair (EA), a physical affair (PA), or none, time will tell.
Hang in there man. Focus on you and the kids. Keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Women who agree to go to marriage counselling on the request of their husband, while actively taking steps towards separation and divorce, are not going with a view to save their marriage.
If she comes to you and says “I want to work on saving this, let’s go to counselling” - that’s a different story.
But in your case, she’s going to help cement her decision. She wants to get the counsellor to reinforce her decision to leave. And if the counsellor doesn’t give her what she wants, then she knows she can just stop going and tell her family and friends “I even tried marriage counseling, I exhausted all options.”
That’s why a wayward/walkaway spouse normally agrees to marriage counselling. It’s a win:win for them.
It’s also why veterans on this site caution people over forcing marriage counselling after a bomb drop.
Both of you should seek out IC, that’s far more likely to be successful.
As someone who went to marriage counselling sessions with 2 different counsellors in a 6 month period. I can tell you definitively, if you were the one that initiated it, it will not work, they will either tune out the counsellor if they get called out for their behaviour or they will manipulate the counsellor to make it seem like it was a both people problem. In either circumstance they will avoid actually doing the work and will see counselling as a "I tried everything i could" way to make it seem like they actually tried. My ex left our marital home during first counsellor sessions and drove to her lovers house during our 2nd when we were trying to reconcile and living together and i was home. She even continued with the marriage counselor as her solo therapist, and would apologize for things and ask me to go out with her for coffee only to ask her lover immediately after. Marriage counselling and reconciliation only works if they are wanting it, otherwise you are just giving yourself false hope
