It’s very frustrating the entire thing . I had explained over the last few months what I needed and wanted to feel secure again . He did them easily . During the process I was very kind and said do this and he did . And oddly continues to do them without me even asking or being chatty and flat out ignoring them . Sending me he’s where abouts and I’m not even around or asking nor do I care at this present moment. I will never blame anyone but him . Though it’s very striking that all this came about a few days before a family trip that was planned 2 years ago by unsigned letter . He involved himself with OW so now these are his consequences . I did speak with him a little last night briefly and a train wreck of I can’t believe I did this to my family . I don’t even know what rock bottom would be or expected changes . He’s been doing them for few months . He can’t apologize anymore . I can’t even listen to it and told him to stop . The only time he brings up moving out is when he says I should not be married to anyone because I hurt you and everything . I get what kind18 is going with cut him off because he has a history of this and it will happen again too . When he’s in need he leans hard on me and uses my kindness . Were those changes he’s been making going to stick anyway ??? He very well will need to feel this one at his core .
At what point do you just move forward? H did not move out. I guess when push came to shove and he was given an empty house and told to take whatever he wanted a dose of reality hit pretty fast . I don’t even know where to begin . He has been pouring his soul out last few days about things I never knew . I listen . Do not know what else to do . He gave me password to phone for a third time . I remembered it from months ago didn’t need it nor do I want it . I’ve not brought up R talk he does . He said something randomly about his friend who really hit rock bottom years ago with drinking . My only response was it’s ok to ask for help . Sometimes we all just help . He starting bawling .
At what point do you just move forward? H did not move out. I guess when push came to shove and he was given an empty house and told to take whatever he wanted a dose of reality hit pretty fast . I don’t even know where to begin . He has been pouring his soul out last few days about things I never knew . I listen . Do not know what else to do . He gave me password to phone for a third time . I remembered it from months ago didn’t need it nor do I want it . I’ve not brought up R talk he does . He said something randomly about his friend who really hit rock bottom years ago with drinking . My only response was it’s ok to ask for help . Sometimes we all just help . He starting bawling .
I think the first thing YOU need to do is breathe. You are currently on your own emotional rollercoaster ride - which is okay, we've all been there.
In a moment of emotional calmness - go back and read the advice given to you on this board. From there - decide on what are few things you can do to take care of yourself. Currently - you are coming to us asking questions... but then not responding and asking more questions. Again - this is normal however won't be helpful for your healing or well being. We cannot tell you what to do - only give thoughts on how to provide enough emotional stability for you to decide what is best for you.
I personally do not think you can take care of YOURSELF as long as you are "there" for your H is all of his chaos. He's taking up too much air in the room, there is no oxygen for yourself!
But I also think this has been your pattern so perhaps you taking care of yourself might feel "wrong", "selfish", "guilty". Taking care of yourself might make you afraid that it will push your husband away, make him angry, and the most fearful thing - end your marriage.
This is all false. The best chance any of us have, married or not, to be happy in this world and to show up in all of our relationships to the best of our ability - is to take care of ourselves FIRST.
Mentally, Emotionally, physically.... it really is true what they say on every airplane ride.
"Put your own oxygen mask on first... before helping others".
So what does putting on your oxygen mask look like to Caligirl?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
You keep moving forward in your life. Live your life. Do hobbies. Read a book. Go places. Have fun. All those GAL activities. Moving on, deciding upon major life changes need not be undertaken today.
It is clear H is under a lot of turmoil. A portion of that is self inflicted. Guilt, shame, regret, etc. will need to be felt and worked through, as well as all the other pressures and stresses and such.
You are correct H needs to feel this right to his core. He needs to hit rock bottom.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I don’t even know what rock bottom would be or expected changes .
A MLCer’s rock bottom is a choice. A time when one decides to stop their decent. A time of God-fearing remorse. Deep dark depression. Utter inability to continue as they are. And not sure of how or where or what to do next. One is exhausted of blaming and loathing others and themselves. The fight is gone from them. Rock bottom is hit, when the only way left is up.
As you can see, rock bottom is rather bleak. Crisis folks do not run towards it, and do everything in their power to avoid such. Rock bottom will be as large and as grave as the transgression. The bigger the transgression the bigger and harder the fall.
We LBS have a rock bottom as well. Our’s is more grief driven. And change driven. We’ll fight and struggle, until eventually hitting bottom when we decide. Then we start the difficult upward efforts to betterment.
Interestingly, the choice, the hitting the bottom, is mostly unwittingly. Grief is a journey towards emotional understanding. A crisis is an emotionally driven journey. Emotions do not lend themselves to the intellectual path, to knowing, to logically deciding. No, this choice is more a belief and faith kind of a thing. Intellect, emotions, convictions, tenets, all converging and altering one’s trajectory.
It’s a rather profound time. Most LBS testify to the incredible journey they were forced on to. Incredible gains from such a painful and unwanted path. Yet, they’d not give up the lessons they’ve learned. It’s that profound.
H has back out of his plan to move out. I agree with you, H likely got quite a jolt of reality facing an empty house. Do realize H is still emotionally driven. His 180 may not last, and he might well feel like moving out again. Don’t fret it. Leave him be. Focus on you.
So, H is remaining in the home. Let look at a few logistical kind of things. Which will look into that which really matters - you and your well-being.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
how do you react to him coming bed not for sex but just to hold you or vice versa ????
As was stated, don’t. No cake eating.
What are your current sleeping arrangements? I suspect H is still in the master bedroom. I’d tell/move him to a spare room. He was all planning on moving out. He is going to need time and space to sort out his confusion. I think a cooling down period will be helpful. (For you too.) In fact, I’d not be surprised if he wants separate rooms. Folks in crisis are really under extreme pressures and want to hide away.
Figure out your boundaries towards disrespectful behaviour from H and hold him accountable. People will treat you as you let them. H will not like boundaries and will test them. Perfectly normal by the way. Let him crash into your boundaries. Be rock solid. MLCers are like teenagers and need to grow up.
Meals. Laundry. And such are other areas where you may move forward in a more separate manner for the time being. The path somewhat is derived by H’s temperament. Besides, he may very well choose to do his own thing. Time will tell.
Focus on you. Give H lots of time and space. GAL! Keep moving forward.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
Hi CaliG. Like you, I found myself needing to re-boot my efforts to DB. What you're going through is unfair. Like others, my advice is to focus on 1) your well-being and 2) the well-being of your kids. I encourage you to go back and read (from Cadet's welcome post DnJ shared), Sandi's rules. Pivot to acting "as if" you're moving on with your life, with or without your H. You can and will be OK if you shift to working on the only person you can control in this situation: you. Make yourself less available for H to do or say what he's doing. Great job responding to texts with minimal responses and only when a text truly merits a response. Given your H tons of space. Put all questions about your M on hold - he's nowhere near in a place to have a credible discussion with you about your relationship.
I suspect we all feel the temptation to give in when our wayward or walkaway spouses want to re-engage with us in some way (sex, cuddling, availability for providing empathy, etc.). Part of our hearts wants them back. We think it may be easier and so their seemingly quick improvements further tempt us to jump back in. But, as so many experiences on this board reflect, these improvements are fleeting mirages and often not sustained. Dive back into the DB books. Watch some MWD videos on YouTube. Think of 1-2 180s you can pull that will make your S take notice. For example, putting your foot down about the sleeping arrangements or attempts to still access you for support - communicate that given all this behavior, you're "closed" for business as a wife for now. If you had a BD, I'd say he fired you from your role as W. Maybe this is more like a sabbatical or leave of absence to focus on your health and sanity.
Keep us posted on your progress. I'm especially interested to hear in your next update 1-2 things you're doing for the 100% purpose of feeling better about yourself and worth.
Thank you both. I took a couple days just to breathe and let the dust settle from this. I needed that to clear my head. You are absolutely right I am by nature a care taker and always put myself last out of fear of others. Oxygen mask much needed. To the point of exhaustion.
To answer the question: H does not want separate bedrooms, I do not have a spare bedroom. I am also not a huge fan of the kids seeing a parent on the couch and super protective that way. Farthest thing from what he wants and communicated this week is being banished to the couch. And yes I understand that this is this week.
I have communicated minimally and many times am trying to balance a deer in head lights look. One thing he said very clearly was you were the first person who just gave me space and allowed me to sort through the jumbled mess in my head. I did respond to that and said I deserve a spouse who is committed to being here. If you choose to leave I will not stop you but I will not help you either.
Financially I do not need him he knows this. The home is solely mine, purchased prior to marriage. Does it make life better sure but I would be fine alone. What I have really been pondering is do I have this in me for another go around?
The rock bottom is just tough. I have never seen this man cry the way he has cried over the last few months but then did change into a better person. When he speaks he does mention the plans he had on leaving months and years back but says I put that to rest and committed to what I wanted in my life.
Not to think for him or even defend his actions but the B drop was also a B drop on him where everything he did and stopped doing was dropped at the same moment. So more questions he said he’s here because this is where he wants to be and that he loves me. Felt like he lost me many years ago and was just starting to get me back. I didn’t say much because doing nothing is doing something.
Now I feel like he’s a little hawk watching my every move and I don’t like it. I’m very independent and have strong good healthy friendships but I can’t even talk on the phone without him just walking by. And I’m not leaving my home to talk to my friends and family. He did this not me nor do my children need to see me leaving frequently.
Last edited by DnJ; 09/02/2402:35 PM. Reason: Added paragraphs/spacing for clarity.
1-2 things I have implemented are taking care of my overall appearance. Even at my age I am still quite attractive but tend to fall into mom gear for clothes . Feels nice to wear better clothing and not leggings . 180s I have learned to be quiet . Real quiet . I’m a chatty person still balancing the deer in headlights vs quiet when approached but getting there .
On the H front . Still being a hawk on me and trying every opportunity to attempt to talk . R talk but mainly about him and what he needs to do . He asked me what he needs to do to fix this . Didn’t really say much besides that’s for you to figure out not me . He started with the I need help with learning how to deal with things not the way I have been for years . Actions speak louder than words . Time will tell with a follow through .
I agree. It does feel good to break out the better clothing. Sounds like your day to day attire has shifted a bit. Good for you.
Thanks for sharing about having no spare bedroom. That does limit options somewhat. And I too do not think having Dad sleeping on the couch is a good long term path. It is good that he does not want to be banished to the couch.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I have communicated minimally and many times am trying to balance a deer in head lights look. One thing he said very clearly was you were the first person who just gave me space and allowed me to sort through the jumbled mess in my head. I did respond to that and said I deserve a spouse who is committed to being here. If you choose to leave I will not stop you but I will not help you either.
I see your 180, your efforts on being quiet. And the finding the balancing of deer in the headlights vs quiet. If I may offer a suggestion, and I may be off base here so do let me know, it’s not about being quiet, I think you are working on how to listen, validate, and not give your point of view when he opens up.
In the above, you are correct in what you stated. You do deserve a committed spouse. However, H is not ready, nor got his mess sorted out enough to hear it or absorb it. That is just a lot of pressure on him.
Now, you said it. Good. It’s ok for him to hear it. And you placed the ball in his court. Once is enough. Let it go. H’s path is slow. And pressure will make it slower, or worse derail it.
Quote
One thing he said very clearly was you were the first person who just gave me space and allowed me to sort through the jumbled mess in my head.
A suggested response: You’re welcome.
You could add how overwhelming it must be to have such feelings swimming about, or other folks being demanding of him. Or not. Silence is ok too. Letting H lead the way, at his pace, and his direction.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
he said he’s here because this is where he wants to be and that he loves me. Felt like he lost me many years ago and was just starting to get me back. I didn’t say much because doing nothing is doing something.
Yep, you need not do anything. Just acknowledge and go about your day.
It looks like you are in a good place financially. Sole ownership of the house is fortunate.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
What I have really been pondering is do I have this in me for another go around?
Luckily, you don’t have to answer that today. Do you? Doing nothing is doing something.
It does sound like H is/has making/made positive progress. Albeit slow. You’ve seen him be a better person. It takes time.
Originally Posted by Caligirl
I feel like he’s a little hawk watching my every move and I don’t like it. … I can’t even talk on the phone without him just walking by.
That does sound irritating.
I suspect H has bouts of guilt, shame, regret, and such. Is underfoot due to his worry and wonder if he can be forgiven or even deserving of it. Worried he is being judged. And kind of lost on how to go forward.
H needs to feel the loss. Needs to decide to make significant personal inner changes. Like you said, words vs actions. Time will tell.
Live and love your life. Focus on you. Let time work for and with you. It is a gift.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
You nailed a lot of it ! Had a great weekend . Lots of time with the kids which are really just my loves and keep me grounded . I started to balance a bit better just listening , hearing and not just sitting there . H continues to spend all his free time home can see he’s trying to be extra caring .He had been doing this anyway prior to B drop because A ended few months ago . He has started going to counseling for just him - virtually . Didn’t tell me he started while I was away but I’m ok with that .I have made it clear I’m not going to marriage counseling anytime soon. Agreed he needs a safe person to speak without pressure of some of it being shared with me for now .He has expressed shame ,guilt but mainly the one thing his fear of me leaving not today but in 6 months or a year or me running off having an A . Now wouldn’t that be something ! But not my thing a bit more grounded currently. H stated there are so many times I was just going to come clean over the last few months but you’re so strong I figured you would just boot me to the curb . He hit me with the I’m going to do whatever this takes you deserve better . The one boundary I have been making is I respect honesty and not dishonesty if something is bothering you speak up . This also goes for me I did turn a blind eye to what I knew was going on .I just don’t know how much of a loss he needs because it was quite the jolt when I left and said take whatever you want I’ll replace it . H does attempt to ask me questions I keep answers on the brief side as much as I can and move along . I am always so grateful for this group because it brings me back to the basics sometimes . Just learning to listen and hear is huge for me . I tend to ignore and move along .
Just adding on some more thoughts I have been processing through . Learning to take time and just work through them . I’m still being hawked at home so a nice break today to have H out of the house working . Starting to really look deep into the post others have written mainly about MLC and depression and loathing . As H continues to just pour a lot out on this end it’s kinda sad to hear how dark he felt for so long , how jealous he was of friendships, accomplishments , bonds or how I handled life . Odd thing was said H stated a started looking at you differently a few months ago , what I wanted in my life it was the first time my head felt on straight and not fogged up in years. I loved my wife and was working on giving us that marriage we both wanted . I wanted to leave because I figured there was no coming back from this one . I validate and say that must have been very hard to go through . So here I sit just trucking along trying to continue to smell the roses and carrying on happily . Plan on spending some time gardening today and just enjoying the sunlight .
