Rumspringa

[MamaG]

My eye caught the same sentence DnJ highlights. "am I wired to feel rejection." I'm actually impressed that he has such awareness and a strong enough thought to capture in a notebook.
Either way, his coping mechanisms are less than welcomed and I understand your feelings. I empathize, as this certainly confirms MLC in case you were uncertain.

Based on all I've read, confronting him about these findings wouldn't help any. He'll likely deny/lie and it'll somehow be addressed as your fault.

MG

[grok]

I have no idea how to address any of this with him.

Just pack up H’s notebooks, along with other things of his. When/if he wants some of his belonging, or you decide to get some of his stuff out of the house and into his apartment, give him the boxes.

This reminds me of some advice I see repeated in older threads…when the question was “what do I do now that I found out XXXX was going on?”

The answer in the form of questions-
Snooping can inform you as to what is / they think is going on, but.

Does knowing change what you should be doing? i.e. GAL, detach, etc…

Does knowing change what you would require of him?

The answer almost always seems to be that it doesn’t change either one.

The snooping does let you know where they are at in exchange for larger injury to your heart and soul.

g

[RegretfulLA]

Thank you all. This was certainly the most unwelcome news, but on the other hand, I think I really needed this slap in the face. I realize that I still was carrying around some hope that H and I would reconcile and that things would be like they were at the beginning of our marriage. Now that I have had a good glimpse inside his head, I see that this is foolish.

But there's more to tell.

First of all...

After I checked in here yesterday with this bombshell I continued to look for other notebooks and I found one with some stuff in there. It contained 2 passages of considerable note. One was him working out a note/letter that he was writing to someone. Didn't say who he was writing to, but I knew exactly who it was because he referenced by name this woman's girlfriend coming back into the picture, and I was familiar with the players in that story. He was trying to figure out how to tell her that now that the girlfriend is back, he feels like she doesn't have enough time for him and it upsets him. That's he's low priority. And that he would hate to give up "their friendship benefits" or something like that - and they should not "make plans" any more.

Unfortunately, the woman he was writing the letter to has the same name as the woman he referenced in the other notebook re: affair. I thought she was a random that he had met on that site, but no. This woman is someone he worked with, someone who I understood to be gay. In fact, when I first read the affair diary entry, which contained a name, it I wondered if it could be that woman, but no, I thought, she's gay. He mentioned that she was someone who slept with "dozens of men and women" (including him! Yippee!) This, combined with the other letter, all but confirms her identity. And also, the breakup letter was written BEFORE the diary entry. So who knows how long this has been going on. I've also now realized that the BDSM/Polyamory books that I discovered (the very first clue in this whole saga) were in RESPONSE to the affair with this woman.

Having all of those pieces fall into place was a sick realization. Didn't sleep too well last night.

The second thing -
There was one entry about his mother. He rarely reflects upon his mom but I think she is at the root of his problems, having abandoned the family when he was a young teen. Anyway, in this particular post he said that he felt like she broke up with him and his sense of abandonment was very, very, very high.

He also said that he felt like he was disappointing everyone, including our dogs.

Also, kind of unfortunately, I already had this plan with him to help me move a heavy piece of furniture from my office to my house. So I had to face him today fresh off the confirmation that he's a liar and a cheater with me feeling hurt but of course wanting his attention/approval. I wanted to ask him SO BADLY how long this has been going on, and I wanted to prove I knew all about everything. But I didn't. What I said was, at some point, I would like to know the truth from you. He said, the truth is that we're on a trial separation. The truth is that I was unhappy in our marriage. I said, "I know we're on a trial separation. I think you know what I mean when I am asking you to tell me the truth." No accusations, no big zingers.

A couple other realizations:

• He's beyond broken - it's very sad - wish I could help him but how can I when he's so afraid of rejection? Everything I would say to help would get turned around into a rejection. As you say, DnJ, I didn't break him and I can't fix him.
• In the act of trying to fix himself, he broke our marriage. I actually said this to him. He said maybe I was right.
• The information I read in the notebooks was information that I didn't want but that I needed so I could have the firepower to move forward.
• For better or for worse, I still love him. I want to hate him, but I love him which makes this extra difficult. I did NOT say that to him.
• Regardless of the fact that I love him, it's not healthy for me to be married to him anymore and now I have to grieve the end of the marriage.
• I can relate this well to the 5 stages of grief: Denial (what I was in for the last 3 years), Anger (when he dropped bomb and continued more destructive behavior), Bargaining (where I have been since he walked out - hopeful that we could continue), Depression (where i am now for sure), Acceptance (where I hope to end up)

I started asking around for names of lawyers today. It is time to at least get some info. To take the first step.

And to address the comments:

The answer in the form of questions-
Snooping can inform you as to what is / they think is going on, but.

Does knowing change what you should be doing? i.e. GAL, detach, etc…

Does knowing change what you would require of him?

The answer almost always seems to be that it doesn’t change either one.

The snooping does let you know where they are at in exchange for larger injury to your heart and soul.

Actually, I do think that knowing changes what I should be doing; e.g., going to L. And reading all about his inner turmoil has made me feel pretty sorry for him. So while I would not excuse all of his bad behavior, I realize that he's not capable of being a good husband and it's not really his fault or his choice. He can't be emotionally supportive or vulnerable in any way. Knowing has snapped me out of any hope that this is repairable. I need to give up on that foolish fantasy once and for all.

I am thinking of trying that exercise where you write a letter to the person to get your thoughts and feelings out but you never send it. As a young woman I used to write these letters all the time to help me get closure (back when we actually wrote letters).

[Caligirl]

RegretfulLA,

It is always interesting to hear other stitches. One part of yours that sticks out to me is the entry about his mother to go back and write about that as an adult . I recently found out my H s parents didn’t abandon him but they left him with family for an extended period . He also has a minimal relationship with his father that he in the last few weeks has begun to really open up about . I find I don’t use this as an excuse for cheating but I find the correlation rather high .

I didn’t mean to but I did chuckle at the dog guilt your wrote about . Same thing over here . I remember 5 years ago H moved out for a period of time . He would come pick up the kids and run crazy with the dog . To almost ease his mind that he abandoned the dog .

Your thoughts about you love him but it’s not healthy hit my heart today . Same emotions over here .

Put the notebooks away . Stop looking . You have seen and been through enough . You have a good idea of how deep he is in. H is in la la land thinking this is a trial separation . Just remember it takes 2 people to end a trial . You may be far gone emotionally and healed if or when he wants to end the trial. I’m finding on my end H wants to go back to the way things were many many years ago . Unfortunately whether we like to admit it or not we will never be the same as we once were . We also come out of this changed with different wants , needs or views on how we want our marriage to look and feel .

[RegretfulLA]

I’m finding on my end H wants to go back to the way things were many many years ago . Unfortunately whether we like to admit it or not we will never be the same as we once were . We also come out of this changed with different wants , needs or views on how we want our marriage to look and feel .

Key thought here... I found I was clinging to the hope that we could indeed return to the way things once were... but that was before kids, before cancer, before losing jobs and taking on massive debt, before hurts and injustices and just LIFE. It is not possible. The R itself is living and breathing - and just like we can't go back in time and be our 30 year old selves again, neither can a relationship. When we hope, we imagine the way we want things to be, not the way they actually are.

It is amazing how much my mindset has changed over the last few days. I went from unsure and maybe even a little bit hopeful to definitely in the D camp. Sometimes you just have to know when to call it.

Over the last 2 days I've shared my story with a few close friends and one friend who isn't so close but who's H up and left. That friend got D and she's with someone new and very happy. It was good to talk to someone on the other side. None of these friends are in H's circle. Knowing I have so much support around is really comforting. I am lucky!

My plan now is to start interviewing L's and get my ducks in a row and start preparing for D. I am not going to say anything about this to H or to tip my hand with regards to what I know. That is all for me to use when the time comes. I am trying to stay a few steps ahead here. The notebooks are safe at my office. He can't get them and I can't open them up in the middle of the night either in a moment of weakness.

I have also decided that it's not fair that H gets to lie to me about his transgressions. Why do I have to bear the brunt of the pain while he gets to spare himself by lying to me? (although, I suspect that the lies are causing him tremendous guilt which explains his eagerness to help me). I'll also say, that regardless of the big, big, big, big, big, big mistake that H has made, if he had taken one of the opportunities that I gave him to come clean, I might see some hope in the situation. But, given that he cheated AND lied, and continues to do so, I do not see how this is repairable.

So, given that I have made this decision - am I allowed to still post here? This isn't exactly DB'ing, but it is taking back my power and finally acting in my own best interest.

[RegretfulLA]

Ok I'm back.
I'm going over some of MY old journals now (password protected!!)

A lot went on in 2012 and 2019 that I had forgotten about, but the long and the short of it is, I really felt rejected and not listened to in this M. And so, when the opportunity arose, I found solace in the company of other men (2010-2012). Not PA. 1 EA and one revenge thing which turned into sexting. H in all his insecurity made it into a capital offense and threatened D and emailed my parents and told the world that I cheated on him and that is how I came to the DB community.

Anyway, I thought I would give you all a laugh.

A list of my problems, according to H

Psychological problems
Narcissist
Sociopath
Asperger’s syndrome
Needs therapy
Needs “help”
“Sick”
Needs antidepressants
Compartmentalizer
Lunatic

Animals
Sewer rat
Shrew
Dinosaur
Albatross

Character flaws
Unfaithful
Untrustworthy
Hypocrite
Devious
Sneaky
Suspicious
Passive aggressive
Controlling, Control freak
Evil

Personality Defects
Lack of empathy
Self absorbed
Defective
Mean/Not Nice
Insensitive
Deeply envious
Cheap
Negative
“Glass half empty”
The most annoying person in the world

Competency shortcomings
Incompetent
Bad mother
No social skills
Can’t hold a job

Physical problems
Hearing problem/Deaf
Blind

General slurs
No class
Loser/ Loser friends
A baby
Disgusting
Garbage
Hates men
Pathetic
Broken
Worthless
“Sour old bag”

If this is the person he married, what does that say about HIM?

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

It is amazing how much my mindset has changed over the last few days. I went from unsure and maybe even a little bit hopeful to definitely in the D camp. Sometimes you just have to know when to call it.

Only you will know when you have done all you can.

A mindset change of two days sounds emotion-driven. Let the feelings settle and consider/ensure your decision again through the lens of logic. You have time, nothing major need happen right away.

My plan now is to start interviewing L's and get my ducks in a row and start preparing for D.

It’s a good idea to gain information and insight into the process and your rights and responsibilities.

So, given that I have made this decision - am I allowed to still post here? This isn't exactly DB'ing, but it is taking back my power and finally acting in my own best interest.

Yes, you can post.

DBing is not a guarantee. One who embraces it will save themselves, and give themselves the best chance at saving their marriage. However, it takes two to make a relationship. You only control your half of that.

In some cases divorce is not the end of the story. The “old” marriage is dead, regardless of a piece of paper or not, and if the couple is going to go forward a new relationship is going to be needed.

D

[RegretfulLA]

In some cases divorce is not the end of the story. The “old” marriage is dead, regardless of a piece of paper or not, and if the couple is going to go forward a new relationship is going to be needed.

I love that.

I feel like H crossed a line that cannot be uncrossed. It was the lying more than the cheating. I can understand cheating but i cannot understand lying.

H’s birthday is Saturday. I sent him a book about healing the inner child with a note that I hoped this would bring him peace. I am not sure what his therapist is doing but it’s not working very well.

I was not planning on doing anything for him but after some intense 4 am journaling this is what i decided was needed. You are right, DnJ - H is on his own sad path. And i think the healthiest thing for me to do is leave him.

[RegretfulLA]

H received and was appreciative of the book and said he'd read it. Before he moved out he was not open at all to any sort of self help in the form of a book - at least not any book that I could offer.

Finding myself incredibly angry and spitting venom into my set of locked One Note documents. I guess it's just how I have to process this. I have to go to work, leave this bottled up all day and then I come home and need to release all the thoughts that have built up during the day.

I am sleeping better at least.

One thing - I had a business trip this week and H came to my/our house to watch my dogs while I was gone. Yesterday he left the house at noon and texted me to ask if dogs should be in or out because he was going to be gone all day and not back until late. The neighbor brought the dogs in and he never made it back here until 10 am the next day.

I asked him to take care of my dogs and he left them alone for 22 hours.

Denies that the reason he went back to his own house had anything to do with the plans he made all day/night.

I came home from business trip and spoke to him as he was here with my dogs. I'm really too upset to want to see him or talk to him but yet I still find myself really wanting his approval. I've always sought his approval and he made a habit of withholding it, which made me want it more. It's even worse now that he's been with someone else.

At least he is making it easy for me to follow through with my resolve to D.

My work for me now is to figure out why I put up with so much rejection from him. Why it took something completely shocking and jarring to allow me to see our negative patterns of relating. And why I STILL want his approval, despite all that has happened.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

Sorry about your dogs. Glad your neighbour brought them back inside.

Crisis folks have the attention span of a gnat. Their memories are like a sieve, except for anything we do or say that can be used against us, then it’s like a steel trap.

They become rather irresponsible as well, flaking on kinds of important things. They miss appointments, birthdays, work, and so on.

These folks have broken empathy chips. Remember their path is emotionally driven. Their feelings are cranked right to eleven. They have no bandwidth for anyone or anything else.

Depression is ever present for them. And their perception of time is quite odd. Brooding, sitting alone, and of course running - hours, days, weeks pass by.

MLCers will flake on responsibilities. Most become terrible parents (and pet sitters). The best you can do is to not count on them for really important stuff. Heck, any stuff. Find another way.


I’m glad you found a safe and healthy release for the perfectly normal anger you are feeling.

Physical activity is also quite good at purging the venom we feel. Sweating it out. Run, punch the heck out of a punch bag, dig a garden, stack firewood, etc. I found cutting firewood - the operating of dangerous implements - best left to calmer times. Do more manual labor than skill-based labor during angry times. Less injuries, less breaking things.

My work for me now is to figure out why I put up with so much rejection from him. Why it took something completely shocking and jarring to allow me to see our negative patterns of relating. And why I STILL want his approval, despite all that has happened.

Good valid inner work to dig into.

Figuring out why will take time. However, you know and see the what. What you’ve being putting up with. And what you’re still looking for.

When you feel yourself looking for his approval - big red stop sign. Let go. Detach. Act as if.

Your approval is paramount. Not his. Discover your convictions. And…

Strengthen that which serves. Craft that which you aspire to. Discard/alter that which no longer serves.

You are the most important person in this equation. Your standards and tenets matter most.

D