Rumspringa

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

Congratulations on son enrolled in college!

Being an empty nester takes a bit to get used to. Yes, lots of peace and quiet. And freedom.

It is great to declutter and organize.

Glad the dropping son off went well. Nice to see H being supportive.

Hope you’re having a great weekend.

D

[RegretfulLA]

Thank you D! Yesterday 3 friends stopped by... each unrelated to the other... one dropping stuff off, one picking stuff up and one for a walk. Friends call to check in. The boys are both doing great. Feeling like my life is quite full.

Just between us, part of my organizing glee is that I get to throw away some of the stuff that H has been keeping around like empty pill bottles and other garbage like that. Nothing of value, I'm not trying to be vindictive. Makes me feel like I'm regaining control and I go to bed happy.

He ordered something in the mail and I didn't bother to tell him about it... seems he has forgotten he ordered it so it will sit here for the next month until he comes to watch my dogs while I am on a business trip.

[RegretfulLA]

Hi Y'all,
Just a quick check in and a few updates.

First - I am doing great! Still making a lot of progress clearing out junk. Not having H around makes me feel "unburdened". It is nice not to have to worry about him, what he is doing, what he thinks, what he's going to think, what he's going to do, what he's going to say. So freeing.

I never realized how much his negativity was affecting me. I was trying to push it off to one side, but it was still there. I feel like I'm winning here.

Second - H has come around for the past 2 weeks to get his mail. I wasn't home either time, but he contacted me before coming. Both times he brought the trash barrels to the street before leaving which I thought was considerate. I think he must miss being here and he misses our dogs too.

He texted me a book he has been reading called "Wired for Love: How Understanding your Partner's Brain and Attachment Style Can Help You Defuse Conflict and Build a Secure Relationship." (I'm not recommending the book - i'm just telling you). This is significant because I have never known H to read ANY books about relationships - EVER. The books he reads are philosophy books which aren't helpful at all. This one is written by an actual psychologist!

I also know he has been going to therapy because he sent me the bills. Ha ha.

Also, the fact that H texted me either meant he wanted me to know he was reading it and/or he wants me to read it - he said "This is a good read."

It's a step in the right direction. One step of many, but you have to start somewhere.

[RegretfulLA]

Checking in. I feel like I've lost a bit of momentum over the last week or 2.

Life has calmed down a little bit. I haven't had as many plans and I haven't had that much to look forward to. Next on the list is going to visit S18 at college, and then Thanksgiving, which I'm excited about, though not sure if H will turn up or not.

I haven't really been talking to H, but I did have to call upon him to help me move some furniture from my office to my home. That's coming up later this week. He agreed to do it without hesitation. (He didn't take out the trash this week - oh well!) He texted me this morning - he is at a conference in Las Vegas and his start up company is a featured partner in the booth of a well-known large company. Unusual as normally he posts stuff like that in the family chat, but, ok. That was nice. He was clearly pretty excited about it.

Something sad happened in my life last week as well. I had recently been spending a lot of time with this gay man at work - I called him my Gay Boyfriend. We would eat lunch together, go to events together and even did a couple things on the weekends. It was a nice relationship and of course, no pressure or awkwardness because he's gay. I have actually known him a long time but we only became closer this year.

Anyway - one day last week I tried to instant message him through our work system and his name wasn't coming up, so I went down to his desk and it had been completely cleaned out. To say I was shocked was an understatement. I couldn't imagine that he had been fired, but quitting so abruptly also made no sense. On Thursday everything was fine, he was let go on Friday and I didn't find out until Tuesday. When I contacted him he was, I don't know, weird. And like, rushed, or something. Said he was having a lot of family drama and needed to go back home to his family (across the country). Didn't admit to being fired. Said he quit and that didn't sit right with me at all. Being lied to felt like a violation, but I think it was self protective. I could see right then that things between us had changed.

Well - I've been thinking about this a lot. Gay Boyfriend was a good term. He pumped me up, he told me I looked nice, he listened, he was supportive, he liked to go places, etc. And I didn't realize how attached I'd gotten. I was really using him as a surrogate for a real boyfriend at a time when I don't want an actual boyfriend. Now he's disappeared into thin air, so it FEELS like a rejection even though I know none of this has anything to do with me. I reached out to him today to see how his mom was doing (because he said she'd been in a car accident) and I got no reply. Hopefully that doesn't mean something terrible has happened, but I hope he's just licking his wounds and feels embarrassed.

I bring all of this up in such detail because I'm surprised at how deeply affected I was. It was all so abrupt and unexpected - like a death. I feel like I'm grieving the loss of the friendship. In fact one day I felt so sad that when I was texting H for some procedural item I asked him how he was doing. Felt the need to connect. He actually asked me how I was doing too. I don't know, maybe that opened something up. Honestly, I feel sadder about Gay BF than I did when H walked out. That says something. With H it was a slow slide but I have to say I never felt sad... I just felt angry and resentful.

[RegretfulLA]

Now he's disappeared into thin air, so it FEELS like a rejection even though I know none of this has anything to do with me.

I meant to say - it feels like rejection and abandonment - kind of a repeat of what has just happened with H leaving. I know this is not true or even rational, it's purely emotional. Sometimes our heart wins out over our head, which is part of why I feel so crappy about it.

(@DnJ please tell me how to edit, I didn't see an option to change my post)

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

There is a ten minute window to edit after initial posting. During this time an <edit> button - next to the <like>, <reply>, and <quote> buttons - is available.

If the editing window has elapsed, a follow up post to further/clarify information works well. (Which I think is the case here. )

Moderators can edit/delete without time limit. If you have a required edit or deletion (example too much personal information) just let me know and I will look after it. Usually, just create a post within your thread with the requested changes, I’ll make the changes and delete the requesting post.

There is also a sticky thread “Notifications / Contacting a Moderator” in each forum as well. This can also be utilized. It is more meant as a work around for the nonfunctional notifications/reporting.


Your work colleague’s sudden departure would be a shock. And yes, rejection and abandonment would be felt, given his aftermath behaviour.

It sounds like GBF was fired (you mentioned he was let go) and he lied about it. Likely him trying to save face. His reactions have nothing to do with you. Sudden firing is usually a disciplinary response, more than from a performance issue. Culpable vs non-culpable.

You’ve reached out (across country). For now, grieve the friendship and work relationship. (((Hugs)))

D

[RegretfulLA]

Ok, this thread is about to get pretty interesting.

Just to cover off on the Gay BF topic,

It sounds like GBF was fired (you mentioned he was let go) and he lied about it. Likely him trying to save face. His reactions have nothing to do with you. Sudden firing is usually a disciplinary response, more than from a performance issue. Culpable vs non-culpable.

I heard from a friend that he was making inappropriate comments (in a joking way... but still wrong) and that's likely what happened - he was fired for sexual harassment. I did hear from him, but of course now he's gone and I won't see him again for a long time (if ever again, honestly).

But the real reason I am back tonight is that while I was cleaning up I found some notebooks of H's.

Not that any of this comes as a shock, but it seems that H was pretty deeply infatuated with a woman who worked for him at his old job (2017-2021). He really struggled with it and I believe THAT was the onset of the MLC. Around 2019 things between us were terrible but they got better during the pandemic. No idea of the real timing of any of this dalliance, but I will say now I really understand why he hated that job - because it was painful to be around this woman that he "loved". (I had no idea about this BTW)

Some highlights:
- Lots of thoughts about how attracted he was to her in every way - young, hot, beautiful, fun, so amazing, whatever
- They had a zoom meeting every day that he really looked forward to
- He was desperately infatuated with her, but it seems that a line was never crossed
- That he felt extremely jealous when she told him about her dates
- He was aware of the personal and professional risks
- He spent a lot of time contemplating why he couldn't be free to pursue this woman and then he chided himself about even thinking he had a chance with her. But he mentioned that it boosted his ego to spend time with this young wonderful woman "who made him so happy"
- He fancied that rejection turned him on - he "enjoyed the torture"
- He reflected on his shame and insecurity but he never did reflect on why he is that way.
- Acknowledged that his shame and insecurity affected our marriage.

(As an aside, the notebook was funny in ways - first of all, he has the worst handwriting of all time and I could barely read a lot of it, but second of all there would be these outpourings followed by run of the mill work stuff followed by more outpourings.)

There was not much mention of me in it... not surprising. I went through a very similar deep infatuation myself many years ago (except I was not the person's boss). H was the last thing I was thinking about. And, not for nothing, that guy also vanished and moved across the world though I knew that was coming and could at least get some closure.

But there was one mention of me. He said:
"I'm such a fool. A fool? For wanting to really connect in a loving way with a beautiful young woman... that's what life is about. Life is about chasing ephemeral ice cream when you have a sustainable healthy meal to eat? What if you just went for love with Regretful? So dangerous... is it that Regretful doesn't love me or is that I am wired to experience Regretful as not loving me? Am I wired to feel rejection?

Ugh, this is so sad. I feel really bad for him.

So that was notebook #1.

Notebook #2 - there wasn't much in it, but there was one passage where he's talking about some woman and her sharing her fantasies with him and it's definitely clear they were sleeping together - and this was obviously before he moved out because he left the notebook here. Even though when I directly questioned him, he denied cheating. So now he's cheating AND lying.

Now... how do I feel about this?

Numb.

Annoyed.

Annoyed that I have to probably get a D.

Feeling like he's a total lost cause.

Feeling extremely betrayed.

Feeling super sorry for him.

Not very surprised.

Angry.

Disappointed.

Shut out.

Disrespected.

Emotionally exhausted and bereft. Nothing left to feel.

Etc.

And, I have to see him tomorrow, he's helping me with something that I can't do by myself. I have no idea how to address any of this with him - if I should say anything or just keep these aces up my sleeve. Especially the cheating one. My thought is to hold onto this and not give my hand away just yet. Sorry for all the poker references.

[RegretfulLA]

Sorry one more thing
He met the woman on an app called FEELD which "includes people who identify with a variety of sexual identities and desires, including polyamory, consensual non-monogamy and kink."

UGH - no judgement here - but NOT FOR ME!

UGH UGH UGH UGH UGH

I think the Universe is telling me it's time to move on.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

I’d keep this knowledge to yourself. No point confronting H. Even if you decided to divorce, a more amicable H would be better to negotiate with.

His notebooks truly illustrate how broken he is. Remember, you didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him. H needs to do a lot of inner work, likely with the help and guidance of a good counselor. And of course, H need to be ready to actually reach out and do said work.

Am I wired to feel rejection?

There is plenty of sad stuff within H’s notebook. However, this snippet speaks to that underlying, unreconciled, past trauma. Just imagine the neglect, torment, etc, during his early childhood informative years to foster such a self loathing and belief that he is unlovable and to always be rejected.

Such are the seeds of crisis and torment and turmoil. Now, in the waning of his life, so much feels unfulfilled, so much comes bubbling to the surface, so much will no longer remain silent. Such a lost soul.


I do empathize with your feelings. Let them go. Work through them, and let go. Take no actions based upon them. Base your course upon rational reason.

D

[DnJ]

I have no idea how to address any of this with him.

Just pack up H’s notebooks, along with other things of his. When/if he wants some of his belonging, or you decide to get some of his stuff out of the house and into his apartment, give him the boxes.