Rumspringa

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

It’s perfectly normal to doubt and question things. Especially around Christmas, Birthdays, and other special events. These times stir plenty of emotions within.

I'm not even sure I want him to come back now.

You don’t have to answer this yet. It’s ok to be in limbo.

Embrace limbo. Embrace uncertainty. Embrace possibilities.

Next week we are going to a nice dinner for S21's big birthday. Half of me is looking forward to it and half of me is dreading it... I am so on edge around H. At Thanksgiving I had to have a few glasses of wine just to act normally and I will probably have to do same at this dinner. He makes me very nervous now. Not because I am afraid of him, it's just that things are so tenuous. I don't know what he is thinking and I don't know where I stand.

Doing nothing is doing something.

You need not do anything. Nor make any decisions.

You can stand still and still move forward.


“looking forward to it”
“dreading it”
“I am so on edge around H”
“He makes me very nervous now”

I get it. Your feelings are valid and true. And your’s!

H does not make you nervous. H does not put you on edge. He is not that powerful! You make you feel. You control you.

Like I said, it’s perfectly normal to have doubts and questions.

“I don't know what he is thinking and I don't know where I stand.”

Don’t muddy the water. What H thinks or feels is irrelevant. Where and why and how you stand is up to you! It’s not based upon H’s thoughts or reactions or feelings. Focus on you. Live/love your life.

During our M I frequently felt left out because I was the only female here. The boys would talk sports and bro out a lot. My H has been a good father and has spent a lot of time doing guy stuff with them but he sacrificed being a good H. The boys always came first. Anyway, I sensed that bro energy coming up again and now, having been away from it, I realize how much it upsets me and how I don't want to be around it. It wasn't too bad tonight but at least now I'm aware. If we ever get to counseling this is something to be brought up. It made me resentful and probably not much fun to be around.

I can see how you’d feel left out. Lots of parents default to putting their kids first. This obviously places their spouse second or even further down this priory list if one is focusing on job, friends, whatever.

Certainly kids and employment and such are important. Yet, so too is one’s spouse. That’s one of the big marital problems, priorities. Eventually kids leave and one is left looking across the breakfast table at a stranger.

Communication, well the lack thereof, is a leading root cause of many problems. And yes, lots of guys do not communicate well. Especially their feelings.

Man/woman, husband/wife, each has a different lexicon. Of course, everyone has different experiences and vocabulary. It’s just there is a gender difference. Caring partners need to learn the other’s. I think men do a poorer job in this area. Especially the first time around.

If we ever get to counseling this is something to be brought up.

Yes, the neglect and such needs to be bought up. However, you need not wait until if/when H comes along. You can dig into your feelings on your own.

The bro energy. Deep down you likely wouldn’t want that bond to evaporate. My XW destroyed the bond with her kids. Tossed them away like used clothes. I saw the hurt and watched them suffer. (She actually speaks about and treats OM’s son like her own. In front of her own four kids!)

Seven years have passed. My kids are doing well. Very well. XW/Mom, hasn’t really progressed. She’s still a “teenager”. She’s no where close to the once loving wonderful Mom she used to be. It’s utterly amazing, both the incredible strength and incredible fragility of the human mind.

We all start standing for our marriage. It’s our default position. We then start healing and questioning. We then shift to standing for ourselves. Standing for our convictions and values. Oddly letting go the needing to save the marriage. Counterintuitively, good solid DB progress.

Dig deep my girl. Find your foundation. That on which you stand upon. Be a stanchion. Be better, not bitter.

Be your best you.

D

[Valeska19]

Today H came over to watch college football with the boys. He showed up at 9 am with bagels (as I predicted - he likes bagels). Made himself right at home. They watched football, they watched soccer - and he stayed here for 5 hours. 5 hours!! Took a little nap on the couch. Asked if he could have some leftover pie (I obliged). The boys could have easily gone to his apartment but of course he wanted to be here at home.

Help me understand WHY you would allow this. Who cares if H is more comfortable at home? He made his choice when he chose someone else. PLUS it makes you uncomfortable with all the bro talk. Let them do it somewhere else.

I sat there on the couch with him until he was ready to leave. No pressure, no R talk, but I'm glad he's feeling comfortable to at least spend time here.

Again WHY are you happy about this? You're comfortable with the fact he is comfortable being part of your live but not being an active participant?

Our trial separation was intended to be 6 months - he signed a 6 month lease - so that would be ending in February unless he chooses to extend. We are halfway through now. We will have to have a conversation at some point in the next 3 months. I was planning to ask him to meet with our marriage counselor and then bring up his affair - basically just saying, "I'm aware that you have been having an affair for several years and I know who your AP is."

Again Why?? You put too much in his court.

From the bleacher seats - he has made little or no attempt to come back to you. His still in his affair. So you have your answers. Allowing him to have ANY part of your home whilst in the midst of affair is cake-eating and not loving to you or him.

What do people think of that approach? I have greatly benefitted from the time and space he has given me and I don't feel the need to rip his head off. Or, should I continue to hold onto that information? Obviously he's not moving back here (if he so chooses) if he wants to continue with AP, so if moving home is his intention, we have to discuss it and set boundaries. Things were so bad for the last year. He treated me horribly and I'm not willing to go through that again.

I think you need to ask YOURSELF the hard questions about why you keep putting up with this behavior. You say you're not willing to go through that again so what boundaries are you will to put on yourself to uphold that? Because as much as the problem is your H... you also allow it in your life.

He's not really treating you any differently so why have a conversation at all other than to say you are done waiting (if you truly are).

I understand how difficult it is to surrender to the truth. Especially when there is confusion on their end. They reject you and then get surprised when you tell them "Okay... I accept your rejection so I'm going to move on". And then all h3ll breaks loose.

But that is where your freedom will lie. Keep working at it. Keep detaching. Continue to ask yourself how you can push the detachment further.

[RegretfulLA]

Happy Holidays all. I hope that you all are having peaceful and relaxing days during this festive season.

Time for me to check in here. @Valeska - thank you for the 2x4's. That was about a month ago now. Prior to Thanksgiving he had not spent any time at the house so I was seeing the time and conversations as some sort of positive movement. I think it was very weakly positive but not indicative of anything other than he misses the comfort of home. After the boys went back to college I did not see him and I kind of came to my senses. I was allowing him to be here because I wanted to be with him. It was only in hindsight that I could see that he hadn't really changed at all.

Detachment has been tricky because of the kids. Also, H DOES NOT KNOW that I am aware of his affair. My grander plan has been to keep things on amicable terms so that if and when we do D, I have a better chance of prevailing. I would go no contact but that's very challenging in our specific situation. I have been doing "smart contact" as much as possible.

Anyway. I have continued to re-evaluate the situation and my own feelings. We have had a lot of family events lately - our son's 21st birthday, a baby naming, a visit from out of town relatives on H's side and of course Christmas and Hanukkah (we celebrate both). H was included in my family's events and I was included in his family's events. H declined one invitation but I can't say I blame him as that particular event can be a bit painful.

It's been a slow journey of acceptance for me but I am starting to understand more fully that H is not capable of the type of change that would be warranted. I have been doing a lot of research into attachment styles - he is the classic dismissive avoidant which includes withdrawing, shutting down, withholding and not being able to be vulnerable. I'm not even truly sure he's in MLC. Understanding these behaviors has been really helpful for me and while there's help available, it's incumbent on him to want to do the work to heal his attachment style.

I watched a great video that talked about the number of people who start out at the beginning of the year all fired up to get fit and lose weight. Most of those people don't follow through and they WANT to change. So imagine how hard it is for someone who is resistant to changing to even take that first step. Not impossible, but not probable either.

I have a lot of empathy for my H and his choices. Back in 2022, he lost his job and we didn't get a big chunk of money that we were counting on. Big ego blow there. Cue affair partner - nothing like an AP to soothe the ego. Then, in Summer 2023 his grandmother died and his mother got sick, and his aunt (who was like a surrogate mom) showed her true colors in a very negative way. This set of events went right to his core mother wound. But since he's dismissive avoidant, he couldn't share any of these feelings with me and had to find a lower stakes partner (hello AP). Needless to say it was all extremely triggering and if he is in MLC, this is what really launched it.

None of this excuses his horrible behavior, his dismissiveness, his withdrawal, his treating me like I don't exist, his lying or his cheating. These were all coping strategies to resolve the cognitive dissonance in his head. I don't forgive his behavior, but at least I understand it a little better, which helps me to have empathy for him.

I had really been clinging to the idea of the 6 month trial separation. At first, I just took it at face value. This is a 6 month separation, so of course, I thought he would be back in 6 months and then we'd start working on everything. I don't see him realistically coming back here in 2 more months, nor would I want him to, and I realize that it's probably best if we go our separate ways. I just can't justify it any more. It's clear that he has treated me horribly in every way and has made only a very small effort to correct it.

Therefore - I'm working hard to be in the mindset of "I will hold space for you, but I will not put my life on hold for you." And secondly - "He is not good enough for me." And so - any big conversation will be to communicate THAT. Basically, "I'm done waiting." Trying to get comfortable with the shift in our relationship and to get comfortable with focusing on ME for a change. Accepting that I am deserving of actual love. I don't even know what that's like. I have been with him for 25 years and haven't lived life as a single person since 1998. It's a big shift, going from mom and wife to single person, and I need to work on figuring out what makes ME happy.