Hey, JoshSco. I'm not familiar with Perel, so I just read up on her. It's hard to tell how credible her work is from a quick skim. That said, trying to figure out why your W sent you these podcasts or her general motivations right now is what you may have heard referred to in this forum as going down a "cheeseless tunnel." Imagine yourself running around like a rat in a maze where there may be no reward to find. It may be that she's trying to take the temperature of your relationship, probably to make sure she's still got you on a short leash. Or, it may be that she's hoping to use Perel's approach as a means to excuse her behavior, reconcile, or who knows what.
As you may guess by now, this wouldn't be something I'd suggest you do, at least for now, if you don't mind. Listen to the podcast if you'd like...or don't. If you do, see what you can take away for yourself to put into practice. What do you hear that helps YOU over the marriage for now? It is just too soon (based on my personal experience and from reading tons of similar situations on this board) to expect some kind of epiphany on her part around reconciliation.
Also, you want to make yourself as much of a mystery to her as possible for now. If she asks what you thought about the podcasts, keep your answers as brief as possible. Perhaps say "I hope to get to that at some point," or "I'm still processing what I heard". The fewer words (and the more they don't promote more conversation for now) the better.
Research Perel if you'd like. See what reviews on her reflect. What are the pros and cons of her approach? If you know any therapists, ask for their opinion or consult one through an employee assistant program you may have at work. My bottom line recommendation is that, if you do it, do it for your self-improvement.
Thanks D, NotebookLM is a little different as it only considers the sources you load into it. Below is its full response based on the following prompt I asked it: How do I respond to the following text from someone I am trying to detach from: "It may be the meds but I'm incredibly emotional today (I mean moreso than usual.)"
Responding With Detachment
The sources provide helpful advice on how to respond to someone you are trying to detach from, particularly when they are attempting to elicit an emotional response. The most important point to remember is to maintain emotional boundaries and avoid getting drawn back into the cycle of dependence.
The text you received is a clear example of how someone might try to engage your emotions. By stating they are "incredibly emotional" and "more so than usual," the person is hoping to evoke sympathy or concern.
Falling back into old patterns of fixing, rescuing, or enabling will only perpetuate the unhealthy dynamic. Detachment requires you to prioritize your well-being and resist the urge to control or change the other person's emotions. Here are some possible responses that prioritize detachment:
Acknowledge their statement without engaging emotionally: "I hear that you're having a tough day." This validates their feelings without taking on responsibility for them.
Redirect the conversation: "I hope you find some ways to feel better. I'm busy right now." This establishes a boundary and avoids getting pulled into a lengthy discussion.
Limit your interaction: If you feel overwhelmed, it's okay to disengage entirely. You don't owe anyone an explanation for prioritizing your own emotional health. Remember, detachment is a process. It takes time and effort to break free from unhealthy patterns of relating. Be patient with yourself and continue to work on establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries. The sources emphasize that you deserve healthy relationships, and detachment can be a path toward achieving that.
Also, one of the cooler things NotebookLM does is create a two-person podcast on anything you upload to it. I uploaded 3 months of texts between my W and I and it produced a 25 minute podcast analyzing our relationship. It was pretty wild.
Josh, I am really happy you have joined community here. I hope we can be kind and supportive and that you come out the other side strong and well.
My W has sent me lots of links and memes etc of various relationship stuff. Mostly, I take it with a grain of salt and don’t try to figure out what she is meaning when she sends them. It could mean any of a million things depending on her emotional state at the time.
I really like perel. I think she in insightful and can be helpful when couples want to connect and form healthy R.
I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, except this:
Don't mistake your relationship being better now as a sign she is changing her mind on the separation. When my XW bombdropped me, i practiced the last resort techniques, and for about 6 weeks, aside from not having sex, our relationship was awesome. When she had the next divorce conversation, I was a bit surprised, and told her things have been good, she's been happier, etc. That's when she said something along the lines of 'yeah, i'm happy now because this weight's been lifted off my shoulders and we're finally moving towards divorce.'
As others have said, try to refrain from having sex with her.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Here's the latest. I know everyone said to refrain from sex but part of having quite a bit of it the last month or so is that it's part of my 180. She's always wanted more but my libido sucked. I went on testosterone replacement therapy right when we first started couple's therapy and before she decided we needed to separate and I feel 25 years younger in just about all facets of life: libido, energy, mental health, less inflammation, making gains at the gym that I haven't in years. Pretty amazing and wish I had gone on it when she first suggested it a year ago. Other than the sex though, I think I've been doing a good job disconnecting and we're moving forward with the apartment rental which we will rotate using on a weekly basis while our 3 daughters stay at the house as well as the separation mediator to help us figure out the expenses during the 3-month trial separation (and whatever comes after that). I just got the email below and wondering if/how I should respond. Thanks as usual for all the great support!
From W:
So how we got here is so nuanced, which I guess in any relationship it is. Sometimes I don't even know where to start. So many layers, so many reasons. Like anything, it's hardly black and white, or one reason specifically, it's a multitude. Not that that will give any clarity for you but hopefully this can allow you to understand more of the scope of where I'm coming from. When we married you were a stable and loving presence in my life and for that I will always be grateful. I was a mess when we met. I hadn't really been on my own, had no idea who I was. You have always been a man who honors commitment and is extremely loyal and created a safe haven. I've always respected you so much for that. Despite my apprehensions, I was also hopeful that it would get better for both of us. For the beginning years of our kids, you were present, helpful, stable, loving. Somewhere around when the kids became more independent though it shifted especially the last few years. You sat in the basement and removed yourself most nights. You helped with rides and sports but were rarely present otherwise. We rarely hung out and I felt disconnected and emotionally neglected. In addition to handling my own emotions I had to handle all of the girls as well. On top of that for most of our marriage the drinking was an issue. Countless times I expressed how uncomfortable it made me, how triggering it was. You disregarded me most times, often placing the blame back on me....it's my issue, my problems with my dad. Again leaving me emotionally abandoned and dealing with past trauma on my own. It almost felt like a form of emotional abuse. Blame the victim for their feelings. You wouldn't go to therapy, everything was my issue, not yours. When I got to the point 8 years ago that was a huge part of it. I knew I didn't love you (or love you anymore) and that that emotional abandonment was a huge part of it. I learned to take care of the kids myself, especially emotionally as well as physically. To some degree I wonder how much I ever felt that emotionally connected, given a huge part of our relationship in the beginning involved alcohol. All of these doubts and misgivings were coming to fruition. I I had to do a huge amount of soul searching for how I really felt and what I needed. All the while I was doing this solo. When you traveled it was a source of relief because it was one less persons emotions to handle. You either grow and evolve with someone in a marriage or you don't. You've always maintained (or previously did) that you had already gone through that growth. Maybe the age was a factor? However, the truth is you never stop growing. I just didn't have anyone to emotionally or spiritually grow with.
I've been growing and evolving for a very long time on my own and I've come to the point where I can't go back. I've compartmentalized for 8 years learning to be self-sufficient and ride this journey solo. For me now the only option is forward. My heart has been so broken for so long that it has it's learning to heal on its own (and I have a lot more healing to do). To go back is denying how far I've come and what I really need for myself in the future. Lately you've been incredible, you've stepped up as dad in so many ways. You tried to fix our marriage. You've been an incredible partner with kids, it's like a 180 and they notice too. We will always be partners to some degree because we are co-parents. I don't regret any of the 15 years married we shared. We have 3 beautiful amazing girls. (Seriously, I think we're doing an darn good job) We balance them well. We've had incredible times together, creating amazing memories (which we will continue to do!). Lately I feel incredibly blessed that I have you as a co-parent to be their dad. We are so lucky. Truth is, this is an absolutely terrifying next chapter but I've denied myself and my feelings for far too long. Drumming up the courage for this has been taking everything of me but I know it's right. Things will change, and it will be hard for all of us but I know it will be okay. When we met one of the things you always said was you loved my optimism but the truth is you bring just as much. I don't know if this even covers all of everything that I've been feeling but this is just some of everything I've been processing.
Here are some things I would like to say but I'm not sure they are helpful:
1) some type of validation of her feelings 2) telling her that I don't agree with calling it quits as I think our relationship going forward is likely to be a lot better than it ever been has but I can only control me so I've learned to accept it and am moving on
The entire thing is about her. Her feelings, her thoughts, what she wants, what she needs, etc, etc. The only times she really mentions you is telling you what you did wrong.
Not one time did she say anything about your wants or needs, what's best for the children, etc.
Obviously all this makes sense, since she's writing it from her point of view, and trying to explain where she's at.
The point I"m trying to make is, in all her years of 'soul searching', 'healing', etc, did it ever cross her mind to say "what can I do to improve/save our marriage?" From what I just read, the answer is 'no'. She also stated that she hasn't loved you for the last 8 years. So that means for 8 years, she's been emotionally unavailable, and probably putting little effort into the marriage.
Obviously you've made mistakes and you're not perfect. Nobody is. But you've essentially been living in a lie for a long time. The person you thought you were with didn't exist. For 8 years she's been planning an exit.
How should you reply? I don't know. The experts here can provide help with that. I'd just recommend not to get into a 'back and forth' with her about who did what. I also wouldn't apologize for your past mistakes. I'm sure you already did that, and it served no purpose. If it were me, I'd probably just write something like "thank you for the detailed explanation".
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
Here are some things I would like to say but I'm not sure they are helpful:
1) some type of validation of her feelings 2) telling her that I don't agree with calling it quits as I think our relationship going forward is likely to be a lot better than it ever been has but I can only control me so I've learned to accept it and am moving on
Again, why say anything? She didn't ask you any questions.
Validation is good, but it's tricky. It's even trickier to pull off over an email or text, because it can come across as scripted and insincere.
She already knows you don't agree with calling it quits. No need to repeat it.
Saying you're 'moving on' isn't wise. Words are meaningless. You need to show you're moving on through actions, not words.
Married: 15yrs Ages: Me 49, W 44 Kids: S12 BD: around 4/14
