Much of this email is boilerplate "reasons" (excuses?) for leaving a marriage. "I've outgrown you" is a classic. Much according to script.
Originally Posted by JoshSco
When you traveled it was a source of relief because it was one less persons emotions to handle.
Your emotions are yours to handle...why is she taking responsibility to manage them?
Originally Posted by Terapin
The point I"m trying to make is, in all her years of 'soul searching', 'healing', etc, did it ever cross her mind to say "what can I do to improve/save our marriage?" From what I just read, the answer is 'no'.
Feels like female solipsism. Google is your friend here. She directly says it's about herself and her feelings. I ran smack into a version in my XW. She said I was distant and didn't make her feel XXXXXX over the last years but OM did. Few to no actions by her over the years to address what she now claims to be marriage ending lack of attention. Not a single word of things she wasn't doing for me. It is/was all about her.
My view was different...but it takes two.
Originally Posted by @GiaMMacool on X
If a woman shouldn’t leave her husband when he becomes unsuccessful, sick or old.
A man shouldn’t leave when his wife becomes fat, sick or old.
Neither of you should run away.
That’s what “til death due you part” means.
You stick it out together, regardless of what’s changed.
g
H:54 W:50 D19, D17, S12 ILYBINILWY 3/23 DB1 4/23, rescinded 5/23 DB2 6/23 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM") Legal Mediation 1-5 & W moves out 8/23 – 3/24 Settlement 5/24, Court 9/11/24 <-, D 9/16/24
So how we got here is so nuanced, which I guess in any relationship it is. Sometimes I don't even know where to start. So many layers, so many reasons. Like anything, it's hardly black and white, or one reason specifically, it's a multitude. Not that that will give any clarity for you but hopefully this can allow you to understand more of the scope of where I'm coming from. When we married you were a stable and loving presence in my life and for that I will always be grateful. I was a mess when we met. I hadn't really been on my own, had no idea who I was. You have always been a man who honors commitment and is extremely loyal and created a safe haven. I've always respected you so much for that. Despite my apprehensions, I was also hopeful that it would get better for both of us. For the beginning years of our kids, you were present, helpful, stable, loving. Somewhere around when the kids became more independent though it shifted especially the last few years. You sat in the basement and removed yourself most nights. You helped with rides and sports but were rarely present otherwise. We rarely hung out and I felt disconnected and emotionally neglected. In addition to handling my own emotions I had to handle all of the girls as well. On top of that for most of our marriage the drinking was an issue. Countless times I expressed how uncomfortable it made me, how triggering it was. You disregarded me most times, often placing the blame back on me....it's my issue, my problems with my dad. Again leaving me emotionally abandoned and dealing with past trauma on my own. It almost felt like a form of emotional abuse. Blame the victim for their feelings. You wouldn't go to therapy, everything was my issue, not yours. When I got to the point 8 years ago that was a huge part of it. I knew I didn't love you (or love you anymore) and that that emotional abandonment was a huge part of it. I learned to take care of the kids myself, especially emotionally as well as physically. To some degree I wonder how much I ever felt that emotionally connected, given a huge part of our relationship in the beginning involved alcohol. All of these doubts and misgivings were coming to fruition. I I had to do a huge amount of soul searching for how I really felt and what I needed. All the while I was doing this solo. When you traveled it was a source of relief because it was one less persons emotions to handle. You either grow and evolve with someone in a marriage or you don't. You've always maintained (or previously did) that you had already gone through that growth. Maybe the age was a factor? However, the truth is you never stop growing. I just didn't have anyone to emotionally or spiritually grow with.
I've been growing and evolving for a very long time on my own and I've come to the point where I can't go back. I've compartmentalized for 8 years learning to be self-sufficient and ride this journey solo. For me now the only option is forward. My heart has been so broken for so long that it has it's learning to heal on its own (and I have a lot more healing to do). To go back is denying how far I've come and what I really need for myself in the future. Lately you've been incredible, you've stepped up as dad in so many ways. You tried to fix our marriage. You've been an incredible partner with kids, it's like a 180 and they notice too. We will always be partners to some degree because we are co-parents. I don't regret any of the 15 years married we shared. We have 3 beautiful amazing girls. (Seriously, I think we're doing an darn good job) We balance them well. We've had incredible times together, creating amazing memories (which we will continue to do!). Lately I feel incredibly blessed that I have you as a co-parent to be their dad. We are so lucky. Truth is, this is an absolutely terrifying next chapter but I've denied myself and my feelings for far too long. Drumming up the courage for this has been taking everything of me but I know it's right. Things will change, and it will be hard for all of us but I know it will be okay. When we met one of the things you always said was you loved my optimism but the truth is you bring just as much. I don't know if this even covers all of everything that I've been feeling but this is just some of everything I've been processing.
XX W
How did you feel reading that ?
Do you feel that there is any truth in her words ???
As for a response....
I would say....
Thank you for sharing
Any words from you that she perceives as contradictory, will only invalidate her feelings.
Ill be completely honest. I would have killed for even a fraction of this type of response, rather than all the blame and lack of self awareness, that being said all you can do is validate the feelings but not contradict anything. Im sure a lot of this email is a rewritten version of actual events and a type of recency bias but in the end you have to keep doing whats best for yourself and maybe everything else will fall into place one way or snother. Theres still a high likelihood of an affair as an affair makes its easier to compare a short term fling and exaggerate the differences, so keep this in mind
And NOT by text.....wait until in person and ONLY IF SHE BRINGS UP THE TOPIC.
Do not focus on what you can't change (your W). Focus on the things that you can change. Take a good hard look at your behaviors, the way you interact with other, your beliefs, your thought process, the words you use, the tone, inflections, facial expressions, body language ect.
Decide if any of them need changes. Work on making positive changes from this day forward. You have been given a great gift, even if you can't see it right now.
Learn about attraction and seduction and understand the difference.
Personally, I would make EVERY future bedroom encounter a pleasant surprise for her. She thinks she knows you, prove her wrong. Be different. Make her question her choices.
STFU. Listen. The fewer words you use, the better.
"What is best for my kids is best for me" Amor Fati Link to quotes: https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2879712
Here's the latest. I know everyone said to refrain from sex but part of having quite a bit of it the last month or so is that it's part of my 180. She's always wanted more but my libido sucked. I went on testosterone replacement therapy right when we first started couple's therapy and before she decided we needed to separate and I feel 25 years younger in just about all facets of life: libido, energy, mental health, less inflammation, making gains at the gym that I haven't in years. Pretty amazing and wish I had gone on it when she first suggested it a year ago. Other than the sex though, I think I've been doing a good job disconnecting and we're moving forward with the apartment rental which we will rotate using on a weekly basis while our 3 daughters stay at the house as well as the separation mediator to help us figure out the expenses during the 3-month trial separation (and whatever comes after that). I just got the email below and wondering if/how I should respond. Thanks as usual for all the great support!
From W:
So how we got here is so nuanced, which I guess in any relationship it is. Sometimes I don't even know where to start. So many layers, so many reasons. Like anything, it's hardly black and white, or one reason specifically, it's a multitude. Not that that will give any clarity for you but hopefully this can allow you to understand more of the scope of where I'm coming from. When we married you were a stable and loving presence in my life and for that I will always be grateful. I was a mess when we met. I hadn't really been on my own, had no idea who I was. You have always been a man who honors commitment and is extremely loyal and created a safe haven. I've always respected you so much for that. Despite my apprehensions, I was also hopeful that it would get better for both of us. For the beginning years of our kids, you were present, helpful, stable, loving. Somewhere around when the kids became more independent though it shifted especially the last few years. You sat in the basement and removed yourself most nights. You helped with rides and sports but were rarely present otherwise. We rarely hung out and I felt disconnected and emotionally neglected. In addition to handling my own emotions I had to handle all of the girls as well. On top of that for most of our marriage the drinking was an issue. Countless times I expressed how uncomfortable it made me, how triggering it was. You disregarded me most times, often placing the blame back on me....it's my issue, my problems with my dad. Again leaving me emotionally abandoned and dealing with past trauma on my own. It almost felt like a form of emotional abuse. Blame the victim for their feelings. You wouldn't go to therapy, everything was my issue, not yours. When I got to the point 8 years ago that was a huge part of it. I knew I didn't love you (or love you anymore) and that that emotional abandonment was a huge part of it. I learned to take care of the kids myself, especially emotionally as well as physically. To some degree I wonder how much I ever felt that emotionally connected, given a huge part of our relationship in the beginning involved alcohol. All of these doubts and misgivings were coming to fruition. I I had to do a huge amount of soul searching for how I really felt and what I needed. All the while I was doing this solo. When you traveled it was a source of relief because it was one less persons emotions to handle. You either grow and evolve with someone in a marriage or you don't. You've always maintained (or previously did) that you had already gone through that growth. Maybe the age was a factor? However, the truth is you never stop growing. I just didn't have anyone to emotionally or spiritually grow with.
I've been growing and evolving for a very long time on my own and I've come to the point where I can't go back. I've compartmentalized for 8 years learning to be self-sufficient and ride this journey solo. For me now the only option is forward. My heart has been so broken for so long that it has it's learning to heal on its own (and I have a lot more healing to do). To go back is denying how far I've come and what I really need for myself in the future. Lately you've been incredible, you've stepped up as dad in so many ways. You tried to fix our marriage. You've been an incredible partner with kids, it's like a 180 and they notice too. We will always be partners to some degree because we are co-parents. I don't regret any of the 15 years married we shared. We have 3 beautiful amazing girls. (Seriously, I think we're doing an darn good job) We balance them well. We've had incredible times together, creating amazing memories (which we will continue to do!). Lately I feel incredibly blessed that I have you as a co-parent to be their dad. We are so lucky. Truth is, this is an absolutely terrifying next chapter but I've denied myself and my feelings for far too long. Drumming up the courage for this has been taking everything of me but I know it's right. Things will change, and it will be hard for all of us but I know it will be okay. When we met one of the things you always said was you loved my optimism but the truth is you bring just as much. I don't know if this even covers all of everything that I've been feeling but this is just some of everything I've been processing.
XX W
100%… without a shadow of a doubt… she’s involved with someone else.
Imagine you were happily married to a good man. Things went slowly downhill and you started to feel disconnected. Then, after years, this man suddenly pulls up his socks and starts doing all the right things.
Wouldn’t you be happy? Wouldn’t you be overjoyed?
I received a letter like this and was perplexed that when things were supposedly better, she still wanted out. Turns out she was banging one of the Dad’s from youngest son’s soccer team.
This letter reads EXACTLY like someone wanting to make their affair someone else’s fault. “Yes you’ve changed, yes you were a wonderful husband, but because you did xyz it’s permanently damaged me and so I have to divorce you.”
This is actually someone trying to make themselves feel better for THEIR decision and choices by making it your fault. What she’s wanting is you to validate her choice with something like “I can see how what I did has made you feel that way.” Then she gets a guilt free divorce.
This is why you should have stopped having sex with her. This is how it has played out in her mind: 1. Life is sh*t 2. Told him I want a divorce 3. Life has been great since that day.
Of course she’s going to continue down this path, it’s been giving her great results so far!
How to reply - TBH, I don’t think there’s a good way to reply to that. I think I’d just ignore it.
Please stop being mr nice guy, please stop sleeping with her. I’d move stuff out of the main bedroom, tell her you don’t want this but you respect her decision, and ask her when she’s moving out.
Confirmed her affair so I moved out of the house to our beach house about 75 minutes away. Her affair had gone quiet and I thought if I was having sex with her, she wouldn't be having it with someone else. That may or may not be true but I'm guessing she's having sex with other guy since I left about 2 weeks ago. I have this guy's number and want to text him screen shots of my texts with her confirming that we were having lots of sex as a way of throwing a wrench into their exciting new relationship. I'm sure that's a terrible idea though?
Have you got that STD test yet? I doubt he’s the first. You need to protect yourself! Run, don’t walk to your nearest doctor and get a barrage of tests for everything.
If the opportunity comes up, move back into the house and tell her to move out or throw her stuff on the kerb. She’s the one choosing to break this family, she should move out - not you.
Are there kids involved?
100% don’t contact him or her. It would be counter intuitive to DB principles and common sense.
Yes, 3 daughters, 10, 13, and 15. She's a stay at home mom and the primary caregiver which is why I moved out. We rented an apartment for 3 months starting January 1st 8 mins from the primary house and the plan was to take weekly turns living in it so the kids can stay in the house.
She's still lying to me even though we're separated. Asked me if I could take the kids to the beach house on New Year's Eve because she might want to get together with some high school friends. We haven't gone out on NYE in years as neither one of us has wanted to. My guess is she's going out with OM and wants the house so they have a place to sleep together which makes me sick that she would do it in the marital bed. But since I'm moving back Jan 1st when she moves to the apartment and I need to bring a bunch of stuff back, I don't have room for all 3 kids and my stuff.
Hurts that kids think it was a mutual separation but from everything I've read, it does them no good to tell them the truth. That said, my 15 year old came across our text chain and knows what's up. I'm sure she'll tell her sisters when they get older. My 12 year old asked me if I could come home for an hour Christmas morning just to do presents and breakfast but I told her it was just too painful to be around mom so soon after the separation.
