W slept in D13's top bunk last night but neither D13 or W slept well and W didn't set alarm so D13 was running late this morning. W wanted me to drive her to school but it's the opposite direction of where I need to go to get to work and I needed to get in early to make up for my week with the kids when I was going in late and leaving early (folks at work are aware of what's going on and supportive). So I just said this is your week and left.
D13 doesn't understand why I'm not "letting mom sleep in her bed" and W doesn't seem to have my back which is not surprising. So she said she's sleeping in our bed tonight regardless if I'm there or not. It's a king size bed so we can keep our distance but I know I won't sleep if she's there (last night was the worst sleep I've had in a while and I think it's just because she was in the house). I'm ok with being uncomfortable as you all suggest but I also think it might be better for the kids if I stay at the beach house the next two nights and come back on Saturday for kiddo's activities. I have plans in the city Saturday night and can use points to stay at a hotel near my plans as well. Work from beach house Friday/Monday and come back Tuesday evening after work.
No no no!
I’m sorry, but you’re letting her walk all over you.
You made a stance that you’d sleep in your bed, and now you’re rolling over. You’re teaching her that you’ll say the tough things, but when push comes to shove, you’re going to let her walk all over you.
I get that you’ll say “but this is hard for my daughter”, but that’s your wife’s problem.
Not at the flat, at the beach house. I'll sleep better, she'll have to deal with the kids without me, and I'm happy down here without her 4 feet from me. I'm increasingly comfortable moving on from her.
I'm guessing DB's aren't going to like this but came across a philosophy about love, marriage, and divorce that has really had a positive impact on my healing process. I'm not great at putting emotions into words but it goes something like this:
-marriage in its current modern form is a social contract that was really created to pass on wealth from generation to generation over the past few hundred years
-as such, love gets put into a box that consists of ownership
-when you put love into a box of ownership, it can destroy the love; not always, but sometimes
-the ultimate love is unconditional; if you say I love you but only under the condition that you are by my side, that is not only unconditional but it's actually a massive condition
-the fear of divorce comes from a philosophy of scarcity of love
-when you change that philosophy from one of scarcity to one of abundance, that fear dissipates, and you can love unconditionally even if the one you love has chosen another path
Again, I don't expect a lot of agreement on this forum and feel free to chip away at this but it's been hugely healing for me!
"when you change that philosophy from one of scarcity to one of abundance, that fear dissipates, and you can love unconditionally even if the one you love has chosen another path."
this really helped me get to a better place mentally. When I realized that, regardless of WW's actions, I was going to be ok, I allowed myself to become the man I wanted to be. The love for her was still there and always would be, but I also learned that I NEEDED to LOVE myself, too.
When I started to adopt that mindset and put more love into myself, that was when WW started to drift back. I had to get to a place in my mind where I knew I that I was going to be ok, no matter what WW decided to do. By the time the A came out and I was able to confront her, I was doing it from a place of love for both myself and her.
It happened to work out that we stayed together, and I'm thankful for that, but I know I would've been ok if it had gone the other way, too, because I loved myself and her enough to let her go. I STILL know that to be true, and I navigate my life from that place.
It's not something that happens overnight, though.
btw, how do you all copy parts of messages in call-out boxes in your replies? I was hoping my reply to Caligirl about the sex comment was going to do that but feeling a bit like a dinosaur on this technology!
I'm guessing DB's aren't going to like this but came across a philosophy about love, marriage, and divorce that has really had a positive impact on my healing process.
I am glad it has resonated with you and had a positive impact upon your healing.
Originally Posted by JoshSco
marriage in its current modern form is a social contract that was really created to pass on wealth from generation to generation over the past few hundred years
Oddly, the current modern marriage does not follow the hundreds of year tradition. Modern marriage is about love.
So, you’ve got the love. Why marry?
Marrying for love is no better than marrying for power, or money, or status, or whatever.
If you have the love, why do you need to get married? Traditionally, “old” traditionally, passing on wealth, property, etc.
The modern age, a better “reason” to marry. Respect. You respect the other person. Their values. So you marry. Combine resources and therefore can do more than either can do separately. The marriage being more than the sum of each.
Respect needs to be at the heart of a marriage, or relationship. Not love.
Love is the icing on the cake. It’s not the cake.
A relationship with respect and trust being the foundation, that love will flourish and will be unconditional.
Unfortunately most do not move into marriage due to mutual deep respect for one another. They do it for love, infatuation. (Lots of pressures from hallmark and diamond sellers. It’s everywhere. ) Then starts ownership, scarcity, fear, and such.
Abundance, living such a tenet, requires little to maintain. It is you. It is how and who you are. Which will be reflected in one’s actions.
However, discovering and achieving such does require purposeful effort. And time. Our modern world is quick to blame and hold grudges. And it does not display forgiveness often. Folks’ default usually follows the scarcity/fear path. And a big old dose of self entitlement. Definitely not the best ingredients for a relationship.
Yet, people do grow and evolve. Lots of hope in that.
Anyhow, just a few thoughts.
D
Feelings are fleeting. Be better, not bitter. Love the person, forgive the sin.
So not moving to the apartment on my week when we had initially agreed I would and staying in the house/bed caused my W to file. Her lawyer is already coming at me hard like I told her she would but we are still going to try to use a mediator to make it less contentious.
She didn't file because you refused to move to the apartment. I hope you know that nothing you did or didn't do contributes to that. You set a boundary for yourself.
She was ready to file. She is just using your boundary as an excuse to absolve her of her own guilt; it makes her feel better to know that "you" caused this, not HER own actions.
These are the mental gymnastics WWs play with themselves to keep them from seeing the truth.
gaslighting is a REAL thing here. The scariest part is that they do it to themselves as much as to us.
She didn't file because you refused to move to the apartment. I hope you know that nothing you did or didn't do contributes to that. You set a boundary for yourself.
She was ready to file. She is just using your boundary as an excuse to absolve her of her own guilt; it makes her feel better to know that "you" caused this, not HER own actions.
These are the mental gymnastics WWs play with themselves to keep them from seeing the truth.
gaslighting is a REAL thing here. The scariest part is that they do it to themselves as much as to us.
One thousand percent this Josh. We’re all rooting for you.
What I’m seeing here is a man who, over the life of this marriage, has been trained into taking the blame for his wife’s actions. What you did was an ENTIRELY REASONABLE thing to do. You decided you wanted to stay in your bed, you decided if she wanted to leave the marriage then she could leave the master bedroom and house.
You set a tough, but ultimately reasonable and fair boundary - she didn’t like it, so her retaliatory response was COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE and over the top.
What she is doing is basic manipulation and gaslighting. Women like your wife who have to start feeling the consequences of their own decisions (ie sleep in a different bed) will push back extremely hard. They will deflect, blame, massively ramp up and bring in others (like a lawyer) to hide behind. I guarantee she’s telling her friends and family “I had to file because he wouldn’t even let me sleep in my own bed, and I was just out of options.” This is the modern divorce woman 101. 100% victim, 0% accountability.
Don’t take it to heart. Don’t get upset. Don’t take the blame. This was going to happen anyway. Without a shadow of a doubt, no matter what you’d done, said or how hard you’d bent over to her demands and wishes, she still would have done this. Remember, she’s a cheat and a liar and she wants out of this inconvenient marriage that’s getting in her way.
At various points along this journey, things are going to suck. Hard. You can not change another person’s decisions, values, behaviour or thoughts.
The funny thing is, you’re more likely to save this marriage one day because of this - while she might hate you right now, and she’ll never admit this, she probably has a bit of respect for you because you finally stood up to her.
I reckon I’d email the lawyer back, saying “I’m disappointed your client has decided to engage a lawyer. Your client wishes to end this marriage, however supported divorce mediation is my preference over lawyers. I hope your client realises that every time a lawyer gets involved, money will be taken from the education and future of our children and placed into a lawyers’ pockets.”
I expect your wife will keep hiding behind her lawyer, because she knows she’s in the wrong and she wants a shield between her choices and her outcomes. Her avoidance of accountability will continue to worsen over the next 3-6 months, so expect things to temporarily get worse before they get better.
) Then starts ownership, scarcity, fear, and such.