Navigating this stuff is super hard. I think you’re doing well in that you’re not getting frazzled by her. There’s going to be lots more of her making this difficult because she’s not getting the easy, no blame divorce she wants. You can expect more of this.
I do want to pull you up on something though:
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This is your separation W. This is your divorce. This is your blowing up the family.
This is not helpful. Earlier in your thread I talked about how trying to get a woman to take responsibility and accountability for her decision was a cheeseless tunnel. When they’re in affair mode, they will rebut this heavily. It will make her angry and will really stoke antagonism.
You really need to take a step back and ask what it’s going to achieve. She’s being a disloyal POS at the moment, and deep down she knows it. So she is pouring heaps of energy into making sure others don’t know it’s her fault. Every time you jab her with “Well this is your decision” you’re lessening your chances of an eventual reconciliation or a peaceful divorce for your kids.
You need to let it go.
She’s not going to own choosing to have an affair for at least 3-5 years, if ever. Keep popping that pimple at your own peril.
You’re better off thinking about the following:
1. Show through actions, not words. Getting involved in lengthy tit-for-tat message exchanges makes you appear weak because you’re trying desperately to justify your stance. You just say “I’m going to do XYZ” and then you do it, no arguing, no getting drawn into discussion. A good phrase to remember is “I’ve said all I need to say.” If she sees you say you’re going to do something and then just do it, she’ll see your consistency and she’ll stop thinking she can control and manipulate you. She will believe ACTIONS NOT WORDS.
2. To avoid the confrontational “you chose this”, always just speak about yourself. For example, rather than saying “you chose this”, say “I’m staying in my bed at my house because I don’t want to leave this marriage.” “I’m not agreeing to that because I don’t want to.” “I’ve realised the nesting arrangement is not working for me and I will be sleeping in my own bed.” I - I - I statements, never YOU - YOU - YOU.
I’m a bit concerned that under all these exchanges is a deep-seated desire for you to get acknowledgement that this is her fault. You really need to get past that, because it ain’t going to happen.
Be a strong, decisive, consistent and unwavering man. Build a 10 foot brick wall around you and your kids which doesn’t include your wife, and every time something comes up - ask yourself if this problem is inside your brick wall or outside. Her problems or thoughts or feelings or wishes are no longer your problem.
Regarding the marriage counsellor/co-parenting counsellor, if you’re not prepared to negotiate on things, then it seems a waste of time. This is how it’s going down if you go:
Her: He agreed to nesting and now he’s refusing to leave the house You: You’re the one leaving the marriage, not me Her: You’re making bad decisions for your children, we need to put them first You: No, you made the ultimate bad decision for our whole family
You need to break the cycle. Change the narrative. Flip the script.
You say you’re worried she’s going to try and get the counsellor on her side. How about calling the counsellor before the appointment and telling them you want to meet separately initially? Don’t message your wife asking her to meet separately, or threatening “I’ll only go if we can meet with counsellor separately” because that’s weak and submissive. Ring the counsellor, tell them you want to meet separately and make it happen.
I just emailed the therapist to let her know that the nesting/rotating apartment thing doesn't work for me and I will be staying in the house and sleeping in the bed so we should think about co-parenting solutions within that context. Will let you know how it goes.
Ok, that wasn't as bad as I feared. Stayed unemotional and stood my ground. We didn't come to any agreement so I don't know what W is going to do. She said she would stay in the apartment were it not for the legal ramifications in the event I decide that I want full custody. I don't and she knows that but there's no trust between us so I get her concern on that. Onward!
Ok, that wasn't as bad as I feared. Stayed unemotional and stood my ground. We didn't come to any agreement so I don't know what W is going to do. She said she would stay in the apartment were it not for the legal ramifications in the event I decide that I want full custody. I don't and she knows that but there's no trust between us so I get her concern on that. Onward!
I forget how old your kids are but couldn't she just take one of the girls bedroom and they sleep in the same bedroom. Not ideal but in the end - it wouldn't hurt them too much emotionally.
I'm not saying you should suggest this to your wife... only to say that there are options... it is just not the one she wanted.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
3 girls, 10, 13, and 15. She's going to try staying in D13s room on the top bunk. I suggested if that doesn't work to think more creatively with d10 sleeping with d15, d13 in d11s bed and her in D13s bed and she said stop patronizing her, if it doesn't work, she's sleeping in our bed. The use of the word "our" hurt but I wished her a good night and told her that I hoped her cold was continuing to improve.
Your guy's collective advice and support have been so helpful. Here's tonight, love hearing what I'm doing right and wrong.
W: D10 is having a really hard time with me not being there in the evenings just cried for half an hour. (Yes my fault I know) I’ll try sleeping top bunk. Maybe apartment weekends. It’ll be better once more activities. I’d like more space for us But I can’t do that unless I know you’re agreeing to my primary custody and 2/3.
Me: That must be tough for u, thanks for trying the bunk and would think of creative solutions if that doesn't work (e.g. D10 sleeps with D15, u in D13's bed, D13 in D10's bed). It's fortunate they are all girls. Your weeks will still b your weeks regarding the kids. I haven't figured out what I want regarding custody. Still processing that with therapist.
W: Stop being patronizing. I’m so over it. Making the girls shift isn’t really fair either.
W: The most stable thing for the girls and custody is not to shift weekly to different homes. Think of how hard that is with school. Research it, it’s much more stable for them to have one place during school days. Your therapist doesn’t necessarily put kids first she puts yours first remember? That’s settled then. I can’t use apartment at night which is a waste of money and is going to suck for you too. If I don’t like creative solutions I’m back in our bed.
Me: Ok have a good night, hope ur cold is continuing to improve.
W: Whether or not I chose this, you forget how complicit you were in the unraveling. You’ve completely exonerated yourself from any responsibility.
W: You’d rather I stay unhappy (which means you don’t or ever really loved me) and in a house with someone I don’t love for the sake to make yourself happy. THAT is selfish.
W: It’s unfair that you won’t move out or move beds period. Having me sleep on a bunk and do what I do as a primary caregiver is unfair. It makes me a nanny. D13 mentioned today that you not moving seems unfair and neither will having me sleep somewhere else. Explain that to them. Talk about also instilling patriarchy for them.
Not going to respond to any of that tonight.....or ever.
No response is a response. I've inherited the deer in headlights stare and somehow it works. Silence or as I've been taught ... I drink STFU smoothies.
You're doing well. Stay strong.
H:49 W:49 M:26; T:32 D21; S23 BD1: Feb 2023 (I think it was a BD) BD2: Sept 2023 Moved out: Dec 2023
just cried for half an hour. (Yes my fault I know) I’ll try sleeping top bunk. Maybe apartment weekends. It’ll be better once more activities. I’d like more space for us But I can’t do that unless I know you’re agreeing to my primary custody and 2/3.