So I went to IC again, I was hoping to talk more about me but ended up talking mostly about the sitch. T thinks I am doing really well, more secure and grounded than I feel I am. I feel like I'm anxious but I suppose my actions don't seem that way even if my feelings do sometimes.
I'm feeling more detached all the time. Really starting to accept that W is a different person now from the woman I married or even the woman of 2 years ago. The more I read about depression, the more it seems that is a big part of what we're dealing with. That knowledge doesn't solve anything, it helps me find a bit of compassion though.
T is trying to convince me to attempt to connect with W and I will. T also suggests MC but I'll play that as it comes without pushing too hard for it.
I've been listening to some Chris Voss interviews and podcasts to try to sharpen up my communication and listening skills. Not only have I had to become an amateur psychologist and relationship guru this last while, now I need to train as a hostage negotiator. All just to have a conversation with my own wife!
I really got on making my changes really quickly - before BD even. Finding NMMNG and similar books and working through the exercises unlocked some things in my mind that had been holding me back. This was a huge shift for me, and I got control of one really big issue in my life.
I'm feeling good about the future. Letting go of the fear we all feel when we lose control of we thought was our world, our future.
My GAL progress stalled a bit this week though. I need to get back to that over the next few days -some home improvements I want to work on.
W is away on a girls night this weekend so I will have lots of time to have fun with the kids.
I just asked her how she was feeling and listened and validated as she talked about a different childhood issue from those she mentioned before, about how she's a people pleaser, only ever did anything in her life to please other, me her mum etc.
How she feels emotionally detached from the relationship. How she wouldnt mind if i said i liked someone else (in other words she wants permission to be with someone else). I should have said how I wouldn't do that because of my marriage vows and because I'm faithful but instead I reminded her jokingly how she used to talk about cutting my b0lls off if I cheated. W said she been looking at old photos trying to get feelings back. I said I think love comes from doing loving things.
I said I worried a bit about her health. She said she doesn't feel depressed but I don't think everyone who is deprssed recognises it do they?
All in all, interesting to hear her perspective on things. I mostly listened, validated, didn't react. Thanked her for the talk.
I did ask if she had given up on the idea of keeping the family together. I know this is a high pressure question. She paused a long while and didn't give a negative but nowhere near a strong positive either.
She knows we can't continue like this at least so there is a small bit of self awareness there but still so wrapped up in herself and her own thoughts and feelings.
It's a pity. She might not be capable of coming back to the marriage in the way that I need. But all good information.
Thanks for the replies. I get it on the feelings being 'right now'. I know they can change. I've seen it first hand. I suppose what I was trying to figure out is how much I'm being taken for a ride or is W in a genuine struggle. Maybe you'll say what does it matter. She seems genuine. I think manipulation would seem a lot more 'sweet'.
I sense a bit of waywardness in W still and I'm mindful of Sandi's warning about getting stuck in a dead marriage roommate situation post A. Hence my grenade.
I think for me 180s are no longer being a nice guy pushover and also being more emotionally available.
Yes feelings take time to change and I know I'm not being as patient as the advice here. I've been pulling back for a while and it doesn't seem to work. Do what works? Making connection does I think. Even though she wants to avoid talking, checking in with her seems a way to get her to open up and see that i am approachable and she can feel seen or understood. I heard enough so I can put the grenades away for a while.
Another 180 for me is not jumping in to fix or show off what i know or have a better idea (Caught myself too late doing it again tonight). Guys like this kind of talk - Ladies don't. So I'm trying to hang back more in these types of conversations.
Communication skills. This is one I probably overlooked because I'm fairly clear, direct and precise in how I talk. If anything im a bit quiet, and because I know I'm quiet, I also thought I was a good listener but I'm realising that's not true. Getting better at listening and talking in such a way that people want to open up more, thats a real skill and a new one I need to learn.
And then women typically aren't clear and direct when talking about what they want and need. It's more subtle hints and riddles. My wife probably already told me everything I ever needed to know, I just didn't know how to tune in properly, read between the lines and tease out the crucial information.
Doing “what works” shouldn’t be your goal. Nothing will work as far as changing W’s course until she is ready to change on her own. Detachment will “work” if/when she decides she wants to be with you. I made the same mistake with my W, looking for her reactions instead of doing what was best for me. GAL, detach, and stop the R talks. I promise you will be better off.I also know how hard that advice is to follow. Hang in there.
Dynamic, we are doing our best to be straight up and confront you out of care and respect and because this is what this place is for. we have experienced it and have benefited from members telling us the truth.
we are not you nor in your shoes. we do however have hope for you that you can do this. its hard really hard.
Yes, there is a fair possibility I'm being stupid. Don't worry, not blaming myself, just coming to terms with the fact that i have lots to learn.
I'm quite analytical. Maybe too much so. I make an effort to understand the 'why' behind the rules so I can decide why some rules or advice conflicts with advice from other sources and which to use and when. I'm going to make mistakes. But I don't feel this was too bad.
It's hard. The most difficult and painful thing I've ever been through.
Trying to walk the tightropes of detachment, GAL, being a confident attractive man who wouldn't put up with being disrespected or having his time wasted. Being assertive and confident and fun but stable and consistent. Validate, listen and create emotional safety but don't be the gay best friend.
All while sharing a house with W and parenting 3 young kids together. There's a reason it takes 2 people to do this and to choose this as a good time to want to walk out of the family makes the mind boggle.
I can see why patience and working on myself is the advice. Everyday I get more detached, more confident that I'll be OK no matter what. Less afraid of whatever happens. That has to be attractive.
I do see there is a mindset shift I haven't fully made - letting go and having no expectations.
After the last conversation with W I've realised she isn't really capable of helping me right now. She is dealing well with day to day stuff of parenting and work but emotionally she is so wrapped up in herself, and is still burying her head in the sand I feel.
There's no empathy for me, she is still so cold and distant.
One of the things that I can't get used to, even after months, is the lengths she will go to to avoid the slightest touch as we pass each other in the house.
I know I just have to work on my own healing and detach (with love). She's cake eating and there isn't much I can really do about it other than GAL, concentrate on myself and don't be so available to her.
I'm currently reading The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F**k by Mark Manson. It's quite timely to be reading this now. It also gives one perspective on how our WS's get into the predicament they are in. We all have only so many f**ks to give and if we spend them on stuff that doesn't matter, we don't have enough left for the real things that will make us happy.
Our WS's get into comparing themselves and their lives with what they see in movies, novels, social media or whatever and get caught up with the idea they are missing out. They spend all their time chasing a hit to convince themselves that they are happy based on these messed up metrics of what happiness should look like.
Instead we should embrace the pain of an imperfect life. Drill down into who we truly are and what we truly value. Find the problems to solve that will get us closer to those values, these are good problems to have. Then we start caring less about all the other stuff that doesn't matter. Why give ourselves problems that don't get us closer to what we value?
For me, this means a further step back from Ws drama, more concentration on myself and kids for the next while. Drill down into my own values. Lean into the pain, use it to drill down into my own core values. Less giving a f**k about anything else.
I'm doing well. Reading, listening to audiobooks, running, hitting the gym. Loving time with my kids. I started to help out with coaching my son's soccer team this week.
Trying to connect more with friends. Trying not to talk about my sitch so that has been stopping me connecting a bit because i know friends will ask. But I have to do it for me. I don't have to tell everything that is going on.
Consuming some youtube material that I saw recommended on here by Ready2change that is helping me reset my mindset and preconceptions about women and relationships.
Detachment rolls on. Really trying to dig in to my inner values and what I want in life. Here's what I have so far...
Friends - when we first moved in to the house I really expected we'd have friends and family over a lot more but this hasn't happened. Partly due to the busyness of young family, partly due to me not being proactive enough.
Music - I used to go to a lot of gigs and played instruments. I gave up a lot of this for family. I now have 2 gigs in the calendar for this year, hopefully more to follow.
Sex, intimacy, connection, commitment. I want this (I know - how can I still want this?). I know I do need to rebalance how I approach this. Keeping more of my own, separate life? And how to negotiate trust and commitment is going to be difficult. I don't know where I will end up on this front.
Travel - Something I used to love but since getting married and having kids our travel has been more local. Work gives me some opportunities to do this. I will look for individual and family opportunities to travel more widely.
I'm listening to The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer on audiobook. I finished it once through and will go through again. I would recommend this for any LBS to help with the mindset shifts we need to make.
W is going to take the kids to dinner at a family member this weekend. I'm invited but I'm going to phone ahead and make my apologies. The thought of 3 hrs in the car with W doesn't really appeal to me right now. I get the feeling W doesn't want me to go and a small part of me would go and be my super charming self just to annoy her but that would be petty. I have lots of 'me stuff' to work on instead...
How does one apologise, and make it clear that it is my personal choice not to attend without letting them know that it's because of difficulties in the marriage?
Also, what about inviting friends over to the house while living with a miserable, shut down wife? I expect she'd put on her 'outgoing, friendly personality' that everyone else but me sees and get on with it. I just don't know if this is seen as pressure (she always wants to be the perfect hostess), and why should I care?
I'm realising how my time is my most precious and valuable asset...
I'm also celebrating a personal milestone so I'll take myself out for a steak dinner this weekend!
Last edited by DnJ; 01/30/2505:37 PM. Reason: Corrected typo.
