A return new comer

[Dynamiq]

Hi, I see a lot of similarities in our situations and I think you are wrestling with some of the same issues I am.

I've been diving into a lot of audiobooks and podcasts like you, attachment styles, relationships, parenting and like you, I have found that gaining an understanding doesn't really solve anything. We can still only control ourselves.

But on the flipside of that, how do we get what we want in a relationship without communicating it. Open communication is the most basic expectation in a relationship and I think you are right not to expect anything less. I think my biggest issue with DBing is the turning away from direct, assertive communication and instead giving space - it still feels so counter intuitive at this stage.

A huge issue I'm struggling with is the balance between what is best for the kids. On one the hand stability of not moving from home and having access to both parents against the damage of growing up in a family with poor relational/family dynamics.

I see you have been through both situations and are choosing to try for your relationship to work. After listening to a good audiobook (Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters) I am just about leaning towards the same - giving it more time.

You talk about attachment styles - is this something you have discussed with your H? Is he aware of the concept or of his own attachment style?

"Many of us come here because we are so lost and sometimes just unable to process what has been or is going on in our marriages."
- I feel this - the last few weeks I have really been coming to terms with a lot of things that just are not what I thought they were... It shakes up our world. But in some ways it opens our eyes to things we were wrong about.

[Valeska19]

I took a long hard look at myself the last few weeks and realized it is not my job to fix someone else , help them learn how to be a partner and/or a better parent . But I deserve someone who is my equal and who has good intentions.

Many of the audiobooks mirror much of what is said on here . You can control only one person . Yourself . You can control how you react or not react . I think for me hearing this rather than reading it was more beneficial. Stuck just a bit more with some examples that I was able to hear .

Girl...preach. I read the letting go poem daily.

I think most people who come here only want to save their marriage... often very scared and often wanting to do it at the expense of themselves. And when it's not a quick fix - poof... gone.

Sometimes different avenues hit at different times. I'm happy to hear you have different areas to grab support from. It's oh so important..

Yesterday H asked me what was wrong . I made it about 30 seconds before his true self came out . Didn’t even get through the entire sentence . H left in a fit of rage . So be it . It is not my job to chase him , speak to him or encourage him to talk to his counselor . H was radio silent all day . I don’t care where he was . I did my own thing . Spent time with kids. Caught up of school work and vegged out on some more audiobooks .

I took a different path today . I am no longer just go to take this non sense laying down . A few swift lines of a deserve a partner who is able and willing to discuss how I am feeling .

So he responded with a phone call . He said go ahead you talk I will just listen . It lasted less than 2 minutes before he began yelling and carrying on . So I hung up . I again reiterated I will not speak to someone who yells and can not listen for less than 60 seconds before becoming irate.

Good for you for many reasons.

Reason 1.

You two are trying to make a marriage work so this is a different step than others on this board. The only way for you to see if he is serious and willing to do the work is for you to express your needs and wants and then WATCH to see how he responds.

6 months later - he's still responding the same way. Like a man-child. Is he doing any individual therapy to address his tantrums?

Reason 2.
Boundaries are needed to make a marriage work. I'm glad you set some. It may take a hot minute for him to stop bulldozing through them or pressing up against them... but remember... by sticking to them... you are teaching him how you are going to treated in this relationship. It's up to him to make that change.

Now looking back I probably shouldn’t have answered the second phone call and just let that one be but I did .(fail on my part ) I got a bit further but ultimately the call ended with him sobbing and saying he is never good enough . Went on about it’s his fault he doesn’t know how to handle emotions . Apparently, all the women in his life have had all of the same complaints. He even threw in his affair partner complaints about him . Well that was just fun to hear about ! Ha !

I glad you did... for reason 3.

I personally think him sobbing is more a defense mechanism or manipulation tactic. What I mean by this is that he uses "his pain" to take the focus off the issue (him acting like a fool- aka YOU) and puts it back on hs trauma (AKA him). And now you are completely off topic and not addressing the issue at hand. There are some good books out there to help address how to keep it on topic in a loving way. Sometimes this "self pity" response is subconscious and automatic so awareness can do wonders.

However if STILL persists on using his shame spiral - I would then shut it down. You are not his therapist and so far he's not willing to address the issues surrounding his "self worth"issues. Again this can be done in a loving way using "I" statements.

Either way through all of his non sense and carrying on . I did get out some points that I know were heard . He is very well aware my reason for staying in the marriage - the kids . And he is also very well aware that I have very limited room in my life for him and don’t wish to continue a marriage with someone who disrespects myself or our marriage . So for now and until I see some solid progress with having open communication. Everything is off the table : don’t kiss me , don’t try to jump in bed with me and definitely do not think I’m going out on superficial dates . And by progress I mean some serious substantial effort into allowing your hurt spouse to speak openly more than once a month . If he chooses not to do this so be it . I will continue to spend time and doing things with the people who respect me and enjoy my company.

I'm glad you did this... AND this is where I'm going to challenge you. Now that you have said what you wanted or needed. Now that you have laid your boundaries. Step way back. When he violates them - remind him. Otherwise - you are beating a dead horse because you have said this to him many times. Less words. More actions.

I know I may have broke half the DB rules during that last 24 hrs but it was quite empowering to feel as though I’m taking control back of my life and what I deserve . Glow up in progress !

Not from these bleacher seats.

Good job.

[Caligirl]

Dynamiq and Valseka

Yes turning away from direct communication is hard . I probably tend to more like you whether at home or with work . I can be direct but not in a mean way . I did some traveling for work during the pandemic . I remember being told by the hospital I was at you are ridiculously confident but never mean .

Attachment styles can be a tough topic . I always come up as anxious preoccupied. Though it’s only from one category my marriage . I’m not like that with the rest of my life . I can call my parents on any given day and never feel like I can’t communicate or fear of abandonment . I openly talk with my children and friends . This attachment style now is a direct reflection of being in a toxic relationship for many years . I’ve turned into someone who does not communicate due to H reactions or him leaving for days or weeks at a time . Or just flat out ignoring me or blocking me .

H is well aware he is a fearful avoidant. Runs for his life .

We did the love language thing as well . What I learned from it really came to light over the last few weeks . Everything whether it be a book , an exercise or some type of improving communication both parties have to be willing to make changes . I’ll give you an example : H love language is physical touch and words of affirmation . Whether I mean it or not for a bit there I would throw out some confidence boosting words . You look great in that shirt . You did a really good job with cooking dinner . A little extra touch here or there . He ate it up .

So let’s go to mine : quality time . Big fail . I started getting messages or let’s say kind words such as . Thanks for food shopping . Thank you for grabbing the kids after school . I did get one let’s go on a date . If you want to know how that went it turned into him not planning anything and throwing it on my lap to figure out what we were doing .

What I learned from this is he is incapable of looking at someone else’s needs or what makes them feel secure in a relationship over his own . It took me many months possibly years looking back to come to terms with the things he is doing or trying to do unknowingly are to make him feel better and lessen his guilt . Not to improve how I feel . Hence his temper tantrums every time I communicate and his response of pity me I’m never enough .

Is my home currently toxic for my children . No . I don’t engage in anything with him around the children that could turn into any type of tantrum from him . That was solely improved by me and me only . I just took all that garbage completely out of my home .

If people or spouses are unwilling or incapable of making change that falls solely on them . For now and for the near future . H has a completely checked out wife who won’t engage with him unless it’s an absolute necessity for the children . I’m not mean but I’m also not available . He walks in a room . I walk out . If it’s not a question . No answer . If he chooses not to face what he has done do this marriage so be it . My life is not spinning or spiraling from his non sense and unwillingness to address his demons . Serious substantial effort needs to be made .

[Dynamiq]

Yeah the attachment stuff is new to me. But in the early parts of our relationship the way I described it in my head was that I was the more secure one and W was more insecure. I now think I fall on the nice guy, anxious side although my IC says I am handling all this in quite a secure way.

I think dealing with a spouse going through a personal crisis, especially while children are in the picture, is enough to tip anyone towards anxious so don't be feeling too bad about that.

My wife appears to be Dismissive Avoidant from what I can see but I haven't discussed and don't think she is aware.

The problem I find is the path to healing and being more secure is expressing needs, communicating assertively, stating boundaries, all of which is a bit counter to DB and also in my case, (possibly in yours too?) more than our spouse can handle while in a crisis.

I really get what you say about looking back over the years and now seeing things we were blind to at the time, the unaddressed issues in the relationship or areas where we shrunk ourselves without even realising it.

Great job on keeping a peaceful home for the children. You're obviously prioritising them. I feel for you.

[Caligirl]

Dynamiq

I found a bit of peace when I came terms with it’s not that they can’t handle it while in crisis . Specifically they were never made to handle it . We always picked up the pieces for them and in my case his first wife and mother did the same . Excuses and never real accountability for hurt they caused . Lately I’ve shifted very far away from that . Whether the marriage survives or not . I’m just not sweeping anything under the rug to spare H feelings . I am far from cruel . Just direct . I deserve this . I’m not tolerating that . It’s not even a discussion. It’s extremely sad to watch from the outside . Like just watching a building burn to the ground but you know it has to .

Women want strong men . You can be nice but also strong . There’s a line there . I can tell you looking at the emotional mess H is it’s not portraying strong . It’s pretty pitiful to see someone who self destructs. Stay strong .