I am sorry I missed you this weekend. I don't normally get on-line during that time but I wish I could have been there for you. I am so happy that others were there to offer support and advice.
You do sound different Deb, angrier and more determined. I think that this is a step in the right direction for you. You are going to need anger to get you through this.
I still think that your h does not want to "go" anywhere but I guess now that I can see that that includes giving up ow. You are going to have to force a choice here because it is obvious that leaving it up to him is not going to work for you.
Taking a stand at this point may just get you the respect you deserve. Do not be afraid Deb. You have nothing to lose...only more of the same bull that you have been dealing with for a long time now.
Wow. I've often said I don't belong on DivorceBusting because I would not stand to be treated this way. That said, Deb, please LOVE YOURSELF first. Respect yourself FIRST.
IMHO, you need to do the "tough love" thing with Mr. Head up his Ass. What that amounts to is telling him that he is free to go to her. That you both agreed to marry each other of your own free will and you won't hold him back against his will.
Of course, he won't leave because he can have his cake and eat it too. I do think you need to dissappear for a few days with NO explaination. Will your son be OK with his dad alone?
Wow. I've often said I don't belong on DivorceBusting because I would not stand to be treated this way. That said, Deb, please LOVE YOURSELF first. Respect yourself FIRST.
IMHO, you need to do the "tough love" thing with Mr. Head up his Ass. What that amounts to is telling him that he is free to go to her. That you both agreed to marry each other of your own free will and you won't hold him back against his will.
Of course, he won't leave because he can have his cake and eat it too. I do think you need to dissappear for a few days with NO explaination. Will your son be OK with his dad alone?
thanks all of you, for your support and suggestions. Ellie, I will reread that chapter, I was thinking this weekend I needed to do it. Except I may have to go buy a new book, I think maybe H has abscounded with mine.
So, to recap and I guess lay out my plans here. Needless to day it was an interesting weekend. I'm still blown away by I am determined. I've thought and thought about how I might have handled this differently, and I still think I've done what had to be done to have any chance. We had grown so distant that there was really no M to save when the A began. So, we shall see what happens now.
After I left from posting on Saturday, I went home trying to sort out what to do before H got home. I put the copies I'd made of the emails I'd found into an envelope from work and laid them out. I'm certain he was at her place that morning.
When he came in, he came to hug me. I hugged him back, and said quietly and lovingly, no tears (I am proud of myself there..I've pretty much been able to avoid that all weekend, just a few, very few, trickles) "you need to go" he caught his breath and asked what..I repeated my statement. his eyes teared up, and I told him that I had found out more about the situation, that I absolutely can not live with it as it is any more, and I can't live with the sneaking and lies. That if he is not able to cut it off and leave cut off, then he needs to go. i am finished with living with this.
He got defensive and angry, as always. Said it was pretty well over, on the just friends level now.....I told him to drop the BS because I knew better, that I have it in black and white all the hot sweet emails from her on our anniversary one week before. The hot sweet emails from him to her, those about meeting before work, thanking him for all the time they've been spending together and how it makes her feel more secure in their love, from the email on our anniversary.
H got really POd, claimed he didnt know what I was talking about . I told him to quit lying, I have it in black and white. Then he went into a tirade about did I think I was helping anything by snooping and reading all that stuff.
Then I did fib...I told him I didnt have to, that information shows up at work, that I've told him everyone knows.....then he got really pissy, said he didnt believe it and he wanted to see it...so I gave the copies of the emails. He got more angry, went into a tirade about only a few people had access to be able to get that, and he was going to see that their heads rolled. I said, "for what, exposing you guy's violation of company email policy/" and he continued to rant and rave about how he was "going to get some people" and I'd better come clean about how I got those are I'd no longer be the innocent victim because I'd be taking a lot of people down with me???????????????? I just stayed calm, looked him in the eye and told him I didn't know who they came from. He was furious absolutely furious. I don't think he will say a word to anybody about this, because the emails are against company policy enough to get them fired, and people who would have access actually are charged with doing "spot checks" of monitoring. So I don't think there's one damned thing he can do, I'll bluff with that hand as long as I can, I wont let anyone else go down if it comes to that. H was so mad, he actually got out the phone book and called the MIS person...luckily she didnt answer.
I repeated that I can no longer live with this. That either "it" ends or we end. that i don't want us to end, but that the pain of living with the lies and deceit and sneaking is just more than I can handle. That if he needs/choses to be with her, then I need to build a life that brings me joy, that it's his choice to be with her or me, but the choice is "or".
We had a lot of discussion. H kind of started to spill his guts. highlights: Theyve been back together since november; I kinda suspected that; she was the one who broke it off and she then called him up bawling and screaming that she couldnt live with outhim; he worries about her -- she has high blood pressure, migraines, etc.; she has no one else to help her with stuff; Damn, she has him doing chores for her that I don't even ask because I don't want him to be all "pissy" about the imposition...; he had told her he didnt think he could "do it", meaning get a divorce, and she throws fits. He feels incredibly guilty...I told him that I would look at the sitch a lot differently if she had not known he was married, had been married for a long time, had 2 kids....h agreed that yes, she knew. he said "for the record, she's the one who took it to this level, I didnt resist, but it was her initiation. I told him that's what I'd always believed.
Evidently they have helacious fights, she holds grudges on then "pounces" on him when he doesnt suspect there's anything wrong, that the fights they have make our discussion at time look like a normal conversation. That she is undependable, she will change plans at the drop of a hat and that makes him crazy.
I told him the choice was his, but he had to make it, and he had to make it soon, and he had to stick by it. That if I end it, I won't be screaming for him to come back as she did, if I say I am finished I will be finished. h said I couldnt know how i'd respond....I told him yes, I do, I've had a LOT of time to consider this...then he said "I suppose so"...I asked him when he would be able to let me know what his choice was, and he said "tomorrow", then he said no, I've decided, I'm staying. I asked if he realized that means that he is done with her, and he said yes. I told him that I need concrete evidence that he has ended it and I need to know when, and that if he can't do it, I need to know that as well. he swore he would tell me. I told him that if it "fires up" again, I am done.
I wanted to make sure I'd made myself clear, and I brought it up again later...H said "I get it...it ends or we are done, and if it starts again we are done"...yep, that's right...
we talked about where we went wrong, not keeping a balance between focus on the kids and work and chores and still making time for "us"...and how important that would be in the future.
H is angry that I'm not romantic enough, and weight is an issue. we discussed those issues.
H said how hard it is to cut it off, and he needs some time to do it, he wants to do it "well". I asked how he will do it, he said he guessed by phone...then he talked about wanting to go to say good bye to ow's D before she leaves for the summer. I asked if that means he has to go there, don't know what he said but I'm sure that's what it means.told him I'm sure that will make it harder. I asked what he thinks he needs for time, and he said "1st of June" ....told him that is what I will plan on then, that he will have ended it and have let me know it was ended and how he did it by then. any evidence after that that it's fired back up means I am going to take action to end our M...
H talked about that it was terribly painful to end it, but he cant even conceive of the pain of ending our M or us being apart, that it makes no sense at this point in our lives. he wants his little boy (duh, you dummy) our home, he loves me, blah blah blah.
That this is hell and something to NEVER get involved in, that it is a miracle we are still together. I asked if that is what he would tell some one else comptemplating an A, and he said "YES!" he said it has been hell, and that he has been avoiding making a decision, thinking that if he could just keep everybody happy and "that down there" to minimum that he could manage, but that it was killing him and was not going to work. That he has prayed and prayed to be shown the way and maybe this is is. that it is "almost a relief"... That really raised a question mark in my mind. For so long I have wondered about him leaving stuff where it's so nearly obvious. I mean, his breifcase where I knew the latest emails would be was on the floor in our bedroom, sitting right in front of MY chest of drawers, leaning against it so I would have to move it to get into the bottom drawer. IF he DIDN'T want me to find it, wouldnt you think he would have kept it with him? I know he has had it set up so he would know when I got in it....he had the zippers arranged just so, and other items inside. guess he doesnt realize that one obsessive-compulsive is as tuned into details as the next.
so, the deal is...he is to end it by June 1, he is to let me know HOW he is going to end it, and WHEN he has done so. ANY contact after that that I verify will mean that I begin proceedings to file for separation. I have concerns that he could just go to a higher level of sneaking, but we shall see.
I've been thinking of what I need to do. Saturday when I got home, I was thinking of money, what could I get my hands on...I packed up some antique glass ware that is pretty valuable, I used to collect it when we seemed to be more financially stable. and the crystal we got for wedding gifts, It was expensive 30 years ago. It would take time to sell, but all of that is worth something to collectors. I loaded it into the back of my minivan, and it's still there. I put cheap glass ware in it's place, H doesnt usually pay attention to such stuff, but I noticed him yesterday evening wiping the dust off the rear window to look in the van. Interesting.
Yesterday evening H was going for a walk when I pulled in the drive from running errands. I commented to him that I'd been thinking about us and our situation, and that I really was not pleased with the prospect of us being apart. He said "I don't intend for us to", and kissed me. so, we shall see. I am hopefull, but very guardedly so. So, this week, I need to work on what I need to do to get my ducks in order: -open a checking account (i figured out where to get enough to at least open it); -set up counseling appt. w/priest -call several atty's to see about a consult -make some calls to see what I could do to get rid of my overloaded credit card situation, which adds to the problems. -start updating my resume -PRAY -work out 3X
Don't know what else to do. Havent heard from H this morning by email.
I am not quite sure what he needs 2 weeks for? I don't think he should have any weeks. He can write a letter to the D, and personally, I think he should end it with OB (other b*tch) with you there as well. In person...because you both see her on a daily basis, and you need to have a united front.
He has been lying all this time, I am not sure how you'll be able to trust him. IF this is going to work, he should have his computer in the living room area where you can see it. Nothing hidden. You both should switch jobs - maybe move out of the area. I am glad that you are still planning to see attorney, etc. to get all of your ducks in order. He has shown that he has lied consistently all along.
He needs to prove to you that your marriage is worth it. And I'd get tested for any diseases - he's been f***ing both of you at the same time. You need to think about that - he's had sex with her, told her he loves her, he screwed you out of a good anniversary possibly to be with her. She probably knows a heck of a lot more about you then you'd like. He is obviously adept about going behind your back.
You are going to have to tell him now what you will accept. I sure as hell wouldn't accept two weeks. If its two weeks, it could be 3 weeks, 3 months, etc. He needs to make his decision right now. Maybe a couple of days to pack up anything she's given him to give it back. A note to the D. I'd give that. To delete all emails from his computer. But not more.
I'd personally let him know that you were keeping all of your options open right now - he needs to prove it is over. I am not sure how he can completely do that, since he could always go to the library and such and use the internet there. But you do need to be firm - you have a great backbone now, and you have to do what is right for you.
Deb - I think you handled that conversation with H magnificently. Classy, lovingly detached, calm - a DB masterpiece!
Now - how about asking for some concrete proof that he has broken it off? A letter that you read and see him send? A letter that says in no uncertain terms that he loves his wife and wants to stay with her and wants NO CONTACT from her in the future?
Then - I know money is tight, but plan a weekend away for you and H alone. He is giving something up, you have to give him the romance and the fun to replace it.
Morning Deb. Sorry you had such a tough weekend. I dont know what to think about what happened. Seems too easy if you know what I mean. Once again he got caught, once again he swears he will end it. What will be different this time? Have you thought thru exactly what he needs to do to PROVE it is all over? Just saying he did it is not going to be enough this time. He had done that already what, 3 0r 4 times? What is he planning on doing differently when she pulls the guilt trips on him? What he is going to do this time to make sure she understands she needs to move on? What will proof postive be for you. I have to agree with dfb, I think you should do it together so she can see you are a united front and no more secrets. Whether it is by phone or in person. I also agree that he doenst need two more weeks. Why? so he can have sex with her ....? more times before he ends it. I also agree he can write her D a letter, your son needs him more. I also agree that he needs to spend some time cleaning out all the crap he has from her, the computer, get rid of all the phone cards...no more Saturday working for awhile maybe get him a new cell phone number. NO more photos or books or coffee mugs or clothing. Nothing.
I absolutely think you are doing the right thing by getting your financials in order, getting your own accounts, etc. You should also be tested, remember the little gift she gave you before?
If he means what he says, he needs to take care of it now, not tomorrow or 2 weeks from now. No more or no Deb.
You have said that you told him that the emails are coming to you from someone at work, right? So he believes that everyone there knows. Can you at this point now get HR involved so they can help you both make this break, that is what they are there for, regardless of his pride.
