Got a call an hour ago from D15 who is with W and D10 at W's friends house about 1 hour drive away.
D15: Hey Daddy, can you come and get me. I want to go home.
Me: Are you ok?
D15: I just want to be home. I'm not feeling well.
Me: Did you talk to mom about this?
D15: Yes, she doesn't want me to go home tonite.
Me: Let me talk to her
D15: She isn't here, she went to get dinner with (friend)
Me: OK, when she gets back you talk to her about this and then have her call me. I'll drive in that direction anyway since I'm going out so I'll be closer if you decide you are still coming home.
D15: OK
---
15 minutes Later...W calls me on cell
W: I heard you were coming to get D15
Me: Yeah, she called me and I told her to talk to you and I would drive that way so if you both decide it's what you want to do I'll be part of the way there
W: Well I wish you had called me first to talk about it
Me: She told me you had talked, and I told her to clear it with you when you got back
W: Well next time there is a problem please call me before you do anything. As a friend and Co-Parent of our kids that's what I need you to do. That way they don't have to be caught in the middle between us.
Me: Uh, she wasn't in the middle. I told her to CLEAR IT WITH YOU WHEN YOU GOT BACK. I only drove in the direction of where you are because I figured she wouldn't be talked out of if and that way I'd be at least 15 minutes closer.
W: Well, I talked to her and we're going to have our dinner, play some games and then I'll come home with her.
Me: What about D10? And your friend? You won't be able to spend time with her.
W: Well that's ok. D10 will stay there and they'll have fun.
Me: I am part way there, I can come and get her
W: No, I told you I would bring her home. It's ok!
Me: ok, I am just trying to be flexible.
W: Ok, well I'll see you in a while. Bye.
All I could think about was that it was MORE important for her to be in charge than it was for D15 to get emotional support from HER FATHER. She never once talked about D15's feelings.
I drove back home and lost it big time. Nobody home so I just yelled and pounded the bed. I have this little book of photos she made up for fathers day where she labeled some with lines like 'I love you because you are you!' and 'I want to grow old with you'. All I could do was yell and pound the bed and throw pillows. What a LOSER. She was never there for me when I needed help. She complained or 'tried to help' or whetever but she was NEVER there.
Now she's all 'in love' with a guy who is beyond loser - two time divorcee, smokes 2 packs a day, has all kinds of other problems in his life, takes his Girlfriend of 3 years to a retreat to 'work on relationship' and meets W there and they are now soulmates and lovers. Comes back and dumps GF. W dumps me and pursues him. Now he's going to 'move out west' so he can start a new life, and be with her of course. At 39 years old? What kind of man acts this way?
She can have him. She scored a winner there. But, but, it's LOVE! She is so f'ing heartless right now. Maybe this is what I need to help me detach. I really hate her right now. As far as I can see she ain't ever coming back and I don't want her to unless she CHANGES and GROWS UP.
If she says anything to me I am going to point out that D15 wouldn't be all upset if YOU weren't screwing some loser and destroying our family for him. Oh, wait, sorry, she is FINDING HER PATH IN LIFE. Right.
But what will I really do? I'll DB of course. Because that's what we do, we eat s**t from them because we hope they will see that they should be in the family with us. Aren't we special.
Wow, Frank, it sucks to be the grown up all the time, doesn't it? It's pretty sad that W took this event so personally--but that's the immaturity coming through. Is she in MLC? At any rate, you did well to take out your frustration at home and away from her.
And a suggestion: quit looking at cards, pictures, etc., that bring on misery and anger. Just put them away for a while.
Quote: I quite drinking and it has brought me a lot of clarity. I reccomend it.
Yep, me too. Been over two months and I don['t miss it!
Quote: Wow, Frank, it sucks to be the grown up all the time, doesn't it? It's pretty sad that W took this event so personally--but that's the immaturity coming through. Is she in MLC? At any rate, you did well to take out your frustration at home and away from her.
And a suggestion: quit looking at cards, pictures, etc., that bring on misery and anger. Just put them away for a while.
Yes, it does suck being grown up. I never knew this person lived inside my wife. I always thought she was a kind and loving person with a huge heart. Now she is a bratty teenager in love and annoyed when she is not getting what she wants. Snide, Snotty, cold. Occasionally I see a glimpse of her real self but I think she reserves that for OM to see.
Like I said: EVERYONE I know can see he is a giant step DOWN from me, except her.
I'm so sorry. It does suck to be a grown up! I'm thinking about quitting. After all, my H is almost 50 and he's NEVER been one. If he can get away with it, why not me
Oh, yeah, now I remember why I won't do that......because I am a person of integrity and so are you!
Wondering why you didn't just call W yourself after speaking with your D? Wouldn't that have taken D our of the middle? You could have left it with your D that you needed to speak with W first. I know it's hard when your kids are reaching out for help. Remember your D is really hurting right now.
Another dynamic that I see at work here is this. I don't have any daughters but my experience with friends is that teenage girls get really pissed off when their moms try to behave like teenagers. (Dressing young, flirting w the high schoolers that stop over, tuning in to the "kids" music, etc) I think you get my drift. This pisses off teenage girls even when there is no marital strife going on. I've never experienced this just observed from the outside. Don't know if it helps you at all.
Also, I agree with putting away the pictures, mementos, etc. You're torturing yourself and stirring up feelings you shouldn't be dealing with right now.
Hang in there!
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
Also, I agree with putting away the pictures, mementos, etc. You're torturing yourself and stirring up feelings you shouldn't be dealing with right now.
Agreed. I had boxed up every picture of my ex and put them away a long time ago. Yesterday, cleaning up some around the house, came across a few more. You stare at the face in the picture and something deep inside you gets tormented. I added them to the box. Perhaps mark the box, "Do Not Open Until You're 80" or perhaps even, "Do Not Open Ever."
Quote: You stare at the face in the picture and something deep inside you gets tormented.
Yeah, And they look at pictures and nothing inside them gets tormented because they were 'suffering' during that time, yet oddly smiling too.
I guess we get 'roles' put upon us in our lives whether we like them or not. My role has been 'stability'. Even when I was depressed and drinking we had a stable life, home, financials.
And now, while my W pursues OM who we know is a loser, and we go to counseling where counselor's goal is to reawaken the love and caring in our marriage within W without making HER think that, my role is to be present and be 'stability'.
Right now though I don't want to talk to W any more. Like TJ, I am going to respond lovingly and enthusiastically but only when she approaches me. She can get all her needs fulfilled by OM via IM or Phone. Too bad he's so far away. But hey, when he moves closer that will prove his love for her right? Or... will it prove his needyness?
Maybe that's what she needs right now - someone who will do anything she asks and can be controlled. Someone who WANTS her to fix him and is EASY to fix.
I'll probably hurt like this for another month, then again when he finally flys to see her or she flys to see him for another weekend romp. But I'm not going to expose myself to her any more unless she invites me. Maybe then she'll get a clue that I really WILL be gone some day, if she cares anyway. It's so pathetic that she has told me I should 'be dating'. Unbelievable that she could be my wife 2 months ago and tell me to 'date' a week ago.
I keep coming back to the thought that someone who can do this to me, who had this personality living inside her, had to have been 'this way' for a long time. It just took the proper triggers to make it come out.
Why would I want to be with someone like that? Why be around her now? The hugs and friendlyness are just fake fronts to reduce her guilt for hurting me.
In any spare moments ALL she is thinking about is OM.
They are both weak, needy and emotionally dependent people who are getting their self worth from each other. She knows better. He doesn't. They certainly deserve each other. It's interesting that her Mom divorced her dad who was also a strong personality, and ended up with a man who is a much weaker personality. Now, her dad was a bit of a jerk at times and her mom is a flakey person so they really didn't belong together. But in our case I am not a jerk and I am a strong but not controlling person.
And, I am learning everything I need to know to be a better life partner with a woman. I think I am also going to be a pretty good catch too. I just need to get over W.
Will she be the one who catches me? Who knows. Doesn't seem likely right now.
Frank, I know what you mean...my sits is similar ("WAW is having affair") It is so hard for me to say...is this the girl I married...could I have been this far off of reading her? I can't believe I was so far off and better yet that she isn't smart enough to see how she is doing incredibly hateful things to me. They asay that they are aliens...but this is really weird...it's like it's not my wife.
Quote: I agree with the counselor... I think after the changes and the A&V have been established, it is time to slowly pull away.... the S needs to change and come with you or you will never have a good R anyway...
What I am struggling with is how much pull away vs. how much affection/support/affirmation.
Since I live with my W like TJ does, I will be
-- Spending time with my kids. This will also make her see I am a good father which is always a plus in a womans heart. -- Not specifically including her in anything I'm doing with kids unless it would be totally rude to exclude her. SHe can ask to join or just jump in if she wants to. Again, not mean or rude, just don't make an effort. -- When I'm not with the kids, I'll be in my room or in my office or out. If she wants to talk to me or spend any time with me she can ask me, I'll be very available and glad to spend time. Again, not rude, just not going to give of myself unless requested. Would you follow a 'friend' around the house and talk to them or do things for them all day? No. -- ALWAYS be as nice and loving and giving as I would normally be. I just won't initiate anything with her unless I have to. I will ALWAYS be glad to talk to her when she initiates with me. I will ALWAYS give affection / support / affirmation when I do talk to her of course. I just won't make an effort to talk to her.
Counselor said if she asks 'what's wrong' I should just say "I can't be happy every day in this situation. Today I'm just feeling a little sad, angry, and disgusted about my life so please give me some space'.
It's not a judgement just your emotional situation.
I did this last nite because I was SO ANGRY with her (read my thread). Last nite after our incident with D15 she came home and I was in my room reading. She comes in and says
W: Hey, D15 is upset a bit but ok now. SHe broke up with her boyfriend today.
Me: Well, that is certainly a life lesson for her.
W: Yeah, that plus everything else going on is too much for her.
Me: Yes, well she'll sort through it.
W pauses for a moment not saying anything...
Me: Well, good night then! (I look down at my book, she doesn't leave)
W: ok, well I'm sure it'll all be ok. Good night.
Me: Good night (back to my book).
---- This morning -----
I get up and go get my coffee. Normally I would sit in the kitchen and 'be available' to talk to W who will usually talk about something. This time I get coffee and go back to my room and get on my computer and read e-mails.
She comes upstairs after about 20 minutes and says to me:
W: Will you please do something with the Dog!?
Me: What's the problem?
W: He's taking all his chew toys and hiding them in the couch and chairs.
Me: Well, did you punish him?
W: I yelled at him but he keeps doing it
Me: Well spank him
W: I did, but you're better at disciplining him.
The conversation then turned to some other topic that I don't remember. I never did go deal with the dog and she didn't ask me to. So, why do you think she even brought it up? It's not like she EVER asks me to discipline the dog. I mean she NEVER does. Counselor says she just wanted contact to see if I was still there for her.
I was.
1/2 hour later, she comes in again. This time she has her exercise clothes on. We both walk 5 miles a day to help stay in shape. Never at the same time. She says
W: Want to go for a walk with me?
Me: Why, do you need to talk? (we only walk together to talk about things away from the kids, pretty rare these days)
W: No, you said it would be nice if we went for walks together, part of being friends.
Me: Oh, right. I'm sorry I forgot. I would love to go but I have an appointment in 1/2 hour and our walks are over an hour. But please ask me again some time!
She left for her walk, I left for my appt. This was actually pretty lucky since I would have then spent an hour talking with her which is what I DON'T want to do right now.
The rest of the day I saw her maybe 3 times, for less than 3-5 minutes each time and I was on my way somewhere else. To help 'explain' why I wasn't taking time to talk to her I told her I was in a rush and had a lot on my mind.
Shes' out of town with the kids till thursday which works great for plan 'B' here. She won't see me till then and I can build up my immunity to her so when she does come back I am still distant.
So, if I was a betting man I'd bet she is feeling a little rejected. After all since the first day she bombed me I have been DB'ing, understanding, validating, even talking to her about her affair in and 'understanding' manner.
I would expect she is telling OM how I have 'shut her out' or something. I bet he will say to her I am a 'butt head' but not to care because 'he loves her' and I don't matter. Actually, I would hope he DOES say that, it would help my cause.
But one thing is FOR SURE. She won't get support or validation from me unless SHE initiates contact with me. She may be getting all her 'love' from OM but is she getting stability, support and care for her and her children from him? I think not. Nor do I think he COULD or WOULD do that.
And yes, it hurts and I cried twice today. But I can't keep giving her energy and getting no results. I am feeding her the energy and stability she needs to feel safe while she still does what she is doing. It's time for her to feel less safe. I can't make her move out and have to take care of herself and feel what it's like to be alone, but I can make her feel what life without my stabilizing influence feels like.
Counselor says I will have to make her leave or do something BEFORE OM moves out here (if he really does) because otherwise she will be able to go live with him and not have to take care of herself.
Do I think these things I am doing will make her drop OM any time soon? Nope. But she can't "have her cake and eat it too". She cannot have her 'in love' feelings with OM and my 'stability without giving me love' at the same time. Nope. Sorry. Time's up.
I know I can do this. I also know it will cause some kind of shift in our relationship but I don't know what. Maybe she will just spend more time talking to OM on the phone or internet. But, if she ever loved me and valued my companionship and communications she will miss it now. A real person is much more interesting to talk to than someone on a phone.
Plus, I KNOW HER better than anybody. Better than OM for sure. Who can really understand her, her fears, her dreams her ambitions better than me? OM is no intellectual or emotional powerhouse here, his life is full of problems that I solved a long time ago. 'in love' isn't as good as 'real love'. What I have to offer is real, not a fantasy.
Something is going to happen soon. I hope it's something good. If not, then at least I am protecting my heart space from beng walked on any more.
Hi Frank - This is never an easy situation, and it is clear you have thought this through. I see no viable alternative than to save your 'energy' for those activities that you personally find rewarding. It will require planning, to be busy but not appear rude. And that's not such a bad thing, to plan ahead.
I'm glad you have never moved out of the family home. The opportunity to let the WAS see what will be missed is definitely far greater if you are in the same house.
Lots of support coming your way. Be consistent with the energy conservation. Slowly
Quote: I'm glad you have never moved out of the family home. The opportunity to let the WAS see what will be missed is definitely far greater if you are in the same house.
I don't understand this comment. How will she miss me if I am in the house?
