Frank, Very interesting indeed. I have started to do the same thing you are doing. On Wed. I went to my house to be with the kids. First thing I did was hand my W the miniIpod I got our D11 for Xmas. Told her I cold not register it and that she should do it. She had a look on her face, that pissed look she gets when things dont go her way. Then, instead of eating my dinner with her, I went into the playroom to watch movie and eat with S6. Then she came into the playroom and asked me a question, which I answered. She then says I seem angry about something and I say no, I answerd her question(of course I am angry you dumb bi((h, after what you have done and are doing, your da)) right I am angry, wake up!) By doing what we are doing they must react to us. They think we are angry. They have just acknowledged our 180. They are confused and curious as to what is up. Why? Well...we have started to take away control along with security. We are no longer as available and they want to know why. I have not spoken to my W since, and I will not call her. I will be nice but I have stopped pursuing her. If she wants something she will have to ask. For instance, the Xmas tree will need to be discarded. She will have to ask me or someone else to get rid of it, or do it herself. I am not offering to do it. If she does ask me, I will take care it. The bottom line is, as you have pointed out, our Ws need to see that we are not the source of their unhappyness. They own that themselves. They are responsible for their happiness or unhappyness, not us. The same goes for us too. From there we now get into neediness and so forth. You know the rest, I am sure. Keep doing what you are doing. Detaching lovingly is the key to either happiness together or happiness apart. Either way we will be happy. Happy New Year.
I think you handled that pretty well. I believe what is happening is that your W is becoming very uncomfortable with your detaching. I think this is normal and it is what should be happening. I would guess that she will become more confused and maybe in not so great a mood as you continue to detach. Stay the course. And I don't see anything wrong with repeating that you need space as you are hurting and need to adjust to this situation.
You can tell your W that some maniacal woman from the midwest sent out a voodoo curse to all WAS who ever cheated on their mates. No amount of light energy is gonna zap it. This is a serious curse which can only be lifted when WAS matures to age 6 (at the minimum)
You are doing a good job. Hang in there.
Have a very happy new year.
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
Quote: Keyster42: Detaching lovingly is the key to either happiness together or happiness apart. Either way we will be happy.
Yeah, THIS is what I need to hear. I slept maybe 3 hours last nite because I could tell I hit a nerve with her by challenging her perception of the 'affair' and the 'divorce'. I wish I had been thinking more because I COULD have pointed out to her that she came home in a loving mood and didn't say 'divorce' UNTIL she connected with OM on the phone and started to pursue him. If she thinks that the affair had nothing to do with asking for a divorce she is fooling herself. And for crying out loud we LIVE in the same house and we interact 'as if' all the time unless I take away my half of the energy. Then she get's pissy.
Quote: spitfire23: I would guess that she will become more confused and maybe in not so great a mood as you continue to detach.
I hope that's true. It will show me that she really does love me and doesn't want to lose me completely. That means there is an open door still.
As far as the 'voodoo doll', I know it's pretty weird that she would even THINK up something like that. In a different post I mentioned that OM sent her an e-mail Xmas eve while the family was out looking at xmas decorations in which he said 'I think Frank is sending me a lot of negative feelings because I am being overwhelmed by them'. W answered 'no, we were all together having fun, but I could FEEL your presence.'
Now, in my knowledge about what we say and do, when someone says something like what he said, it is a reflection on what HE feels about HIMSELF. i.e. he was feeling that I am threatening to him, and that he is doing something 'bad', thus the 'negative vibes'.
When W said 'I am being attacked psychically by GF' she is feeling that what she has done wasn't so great a thing and hurt GF so W feels threatened by that thought and feeling.
The biggest thing I HOPE came out of our conversation is that she is now thinking that MAYBE she DID give up on the marriage because of OM. I think that if she didn't meet him she would still have stayed, and with the changes I was making then we might have had a chance to get it right.
I am so proud of you!! When you first came on this board you were defeated and seemed to have given up on LIFE. I used to be so worried about you just a few weeks ago. Now you are like a completely different person.
You are handling this very well. I love the way you are challenging your wife's candycoated views of the marriage, divorce and the affair. Keep putting it out there like it IS. Maybe sooner or later she'll open her eyes.
As for the "psychic attack", you know I don't by into any of that stuff, but some people do and to them the power of suggestion is real. Those that dabble in that stuff are definitely under attack but it's not from a jealous woman. Personally, I think she just had gas.
You are doing very well. Keep up the brutal honesty. It will help to keep her from completely residing in fantasy land.
Still wondering what people think about that exchange. Is there really any hope with her or is she just 'done' and going to OM to get her 'dream' of a partner in business, a lover who isn't me?
Anyway, last nite she woke up from a bad dream in the middle of the nite yelling. I didn't get up but I though I heard her. She told me about it this morning.
In her dream D15 is older now and comes home all drunk and drugged up. W is trying to get he straightend out but D15 is telling her sho doesn't care or something, I didn't really get the whole story other than D15 was messed up. By the way, D15 is probably the strongest and most stable kid you'd ever meet.
W says she woke up yelling 'I don't want to be the mother of a teenager!'. She tells me she was very upset because she's afraid for D15. I tell her that she doesn't have to worry because she's not alone, I'm here too and I'll be with her as a parent. She starts to cry.
So, I just walk right over to her and hold her. I wouldn't have done this before but I felt it was needed. She holds me and crys a little. It's for real. Then D15 walks into the room and W lets go.
Just for reference, W WAS into drinking and drugs and sex when she was a teen. Her parents weren't there for her and she got into some bad sit's. She pulled herself out of it when she was 17. I know she fears our D15 will behave the same, but it ain't gonna happen. We are MUCH different parents and she is a much different kid.
The rest of today W has been pleasant, friendly, coordial but not making eye contact often, and if she does she isn't projecting any feelings.
I felt really good about this incident. I supported HER without needing anything. And I was fully present. I think in a way is was good that D15 came in to give it a reason to end so it didn't get awkward. And, W LET me support her. Now she is distant again.
Still trying to understand last nites talk. I still have it in my head that she is totally checked out of the Marriage, and is into the affair justifying it by saying she was leaving the marriage anyway. And OM keeps morphing into whatever she wants him to be. Now he's saying he's going to be her massage partner that she's always wanted.
Still hurts a lot. In my mind I see her with him, and me alone (well, with my kids). But the hurt she feels when we talk about our Marriage is real. I don't know exactly what the source of that hurt is.
I guess I should get some solace in the fact that she did say more than once that she didn't know what she was going to do with OM. But that may just be 'shall I go be with him' -vs- 'Will he come here and be my partner'.
I was hoping for a revelation to come to her, for her to become emotional about the loss of our marriage. But it's still the same as it was I guess. So, Back to detaching and letting go. I'm sad again.
I wish I could go back in time and change this. But I can't.
As was said by someone else 'Detaching lovingly is the key to either happiness together or happiness apart. Either way we will be happy." I miss her.
Quote: I was hoping for a revelation to come to her, for her to become emotional about the loss of our marriage. But it's still the same as it was I guess. So, Back to detaching and letting go. I'm sad again.
I wish I could go back in time and change this. But I can't.
As was said by someone else 'Detaching lovingly is the key to either happiness together or happiness apart. Either way we will be happy." I miss her.
Of course you miss her, Frank. And one day, she may have that revelation. In the meantime, keep detaching as best you can and live life for YOU. ou're sadnow for good reasons, but one day, as you pointed out, you will be happy again.
Quote: I was hoping for a revelation to come to her, for her to become emotional about the loss of our marriage. But it's still the same as it was I guess. So, Back to detaching and letting go. I'm sad again.
FD, Your's and my W are clones - alien clones. Going through the same thing. The EA/PA is killing me. I know you have read my sitch too. I have really grown and GLA'd/DB's I think pretty well. I need to start being brutally honest (and if the change arises at MC this week, I will). It is morally wrong. I HOPE someday she wakes up and says "what the heck am I doing?". The boys and me will be at church again tomorrow (as with every Sunday). She hasn't gone in probably a year. It's funny because we go to a Catholic church (W is, I'm Methodist). From time to time over the past couple weeks, she asks me about something she has done (not related to our R) "will I go to he|| for this?". Tought to bite my tongue.
I really think (and here is the hard part) that in a lot of ways you are right - the EA/PA is not the reason for divorce - but they use it as "leverage", a way of explaining away the foolish pride around admitting to you that they are wrong.
As you know in my sitch, I have a W that might be as much as 75% of the way back (or maybe not). However, she cannot get over the 25% because she would have to explain herself - to everyone - about the OM, etc. and she cannot do that. She needs to see this through, blah, blah. I plan on telling her in MC that I have "forgiven her completely for all that I know about and don't. That I love her unconditionally but need to move on with my life. She KNOWS and has seen how self confident I am these days. I can only hope that rattles the foundation she is on. I'll be patient for a little long, but based on response, it might be time to uptick the detachment. e.g. I think she still has the sense that she will be able to stay in the house she does.
Anyway, I think you had a good exchange. Keep it up - there seems to be a crack there that might be opening. I think you did a good job at self control. That is key in the face of this adversity!
Keep it up.
E
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
Frank, One other question - if you don't mind me asking. While going through this journey, do you still wear your wedding ring? There was a post a couple weeks ago on the Newcomer's forum to which I answered yes (because I still do). As another 180/GAL/LRT, I've been thinking of taking it off.
Thoughts anyone else? I really don't want to take it off. I feel like W is wearing me down...
E
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
I think it's personal choice...I continually caught me wife taking her ring off when she would go out (presume to see OM) so i took it and put in the safe deposit box (very valuable) and I continued wearing mine trying to make her feel guilty but part of my detaching...I have quit wearing mine.
Quote: Frank, One other question - if you don't mind me asking. While going through this journey, do you still wear your wedding ring?
Neither W or I have worn our rings for years. She is a massage therapist and stopped wearing it because she was afraid she might lose it. I work on electronics and took mine off to stick my hand in some equipment and never put it back on. Finger's too fat now.
Personally, I don't see the ring as a big deal. I prefer to be impeccable with my word, and my word is that I will be faithful.
