Quote: It's like, I supported her and made all the emotional investment, and did all the suffering and kept the houshold together while she let me suffer and withdrew from me, then someone ELSE get's her when she finally gets her act together.
Honey, if you think she's got her act together, then we seriously need to talk...and I mean seriously...
I want you to do me a huge favor...go stand in front of the mirror...what do you see? Hmmm...I see someone, a man, named FrankD who has HIS act together...think about it...you are there DBing your little heart out...your W still living in the house with you, your the sole support from what I can see for you family at this point emotionally while your wife is off playing high school love games with a man 3000k miles away. Personally I think Kismet needs to send her some of those freaking Snap Out of It Pills Express Mail.
Now look at things from om POV...he's got a woman STILL living with him. I think he is still very emotionally and I bet ya still very physically involved with too...Aw come one...think about it...your W is an illusion to him, a fantasy...that they can both take part it...oh paleez...
Okay...still looking in the mirror my friend...tell me what do YOU see now?
Your wife is teasing you...opening the door nakeed???? OH paleez again...she's toying with you...I have to wonder if this isn't all some sort of game on her part to get you to pay attention to her...what were you like before all this happened?? What was your life together like?
Okay you can leave the mirror now...but I want to know what you see when you look in it....I see a MAN!! A real man...not too many of you around...
Actually that's a little game I play with my H sometimes to try to get his attention...I don't blatenly flash him, but I'll sometimes leave the door open while I change so he can seek a peek if he wants, but I usually stay turned around as to leave a little to the imagination.
I feel your pain of betrayal. It hurts, but that old adage is true - time does heal the pain.
Long distance EA will eventually get old, furthermore so much anticipation of *the fantasy* will be created that actually meeting those expectations would be impossible.
Hang in there and keep supporting your kids b/c they need you now while their mommy is lost at sea chasing whales.
Quote: want you to do me a huge favor...go stand in front of the mirror...what do you see? Hmmm...I see someone, a man, named FrankD who has HIS act together...think about it...you are there DBing your little heart out
Frank, these guys (okay, gals) are right. I did this today - just stared. I really needed to do it. My W pulled a similar thing to me on the phone tonight which reminded me how sexy she is...it hurt....but you know what...I need not care right now. Similar to you, as I detach, I find that I am not looking at the person I thought I was months ago. She's in there, somewhere however. I'll admit I'm playing a little bit with fire as I 180 and "act as if" - which includes being flirtatious - but I know that although it'll burn sometimes, it's worth it! She seems to think that I was a loveless, passionless, wimp. Guess what, I'm not. And as her friend has said to me a couple times - you are the biggest (figurativly) man I have EVER seen. Only one in ten men would put up with the crap we are being put through. Same goes for all the ladies out there on the BB. GOD BLESS US!
I think too the walk was good. You need to be getting some of those thoughts in there. Reality time W.
Hang in there. We need to believe that the majority of couples that do reconcile eventually is because they use the DB'g techiques. We should all be proud of what we are doing.
E
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
WOW, I really needed this response! I feel like Sh*t tonite too after our family counseling session. I'll post later on that
Quote: I'm starting to get a little aggravated by her "flashing tendancies". She knows exactly what she's doing. If she does it again, I would immediately turn around and walk away. She can come out and get the phone when she puts her robe on!
Well, it's actually pretty rare that she does. I mean two times in maybe 3 weeks. I don't think it's intentional as she basically won't let me touch her or see her in general.
Quote: IMHO I still think your W is waffling. I still think there is hope here for you and your family.
Can you elaborate more on why you think that? I'm not feeling it. She is so 'matter of fact' on everything she says and does and has no doubts about divorce. I'm just so hurt and angry at her. I can cope with her when she is down but when she gets into this superficial 'up' mode where she is a 'funny happy person' it kills me and I get down, which doesn't help my DB'ing.
Quote: Okay you can leave the mirror now...but I want to know what you see when you look in it....I see a MAN!! A real man...not too many of you around...
Thanks, I know I really am a good man, I just feel like I did so much to damage our relationship and it'll never be good again. But I do know that I didn't do everything, she also contributed to it. It's only been 2 1/2 months since she bombed (Oct 22) so I guess my biggest problem is I am expecting too many changes from ME in that time. I'm trying to detach but it's coming across to her (as she said to me) as me being passive-aggressive. I am sure I will get better at it.
Quote:
Long distance EA will eventually get old, furthermore so much anticipation of *the fantasy* will be created that actually meeting those expectations would be impossible.
Hang in there and keep supporting your kids b/c they need you now while their mommy is lost at sea chasing whales.
God I hope so. but as little as a week ago she was calling him 'my love' in e-mails. Things like that make me feel like it's never gonna end. And he still says he's going to move out here sometime in the next year.
She hasn't talked about the whale thing in a while. Like I said in an older post, she is pretty much a 'normal' person all the time. If you met her you'd think she was your basic soccer mom type. Friendly and outgoing. It's these random weird beliefs that get me.
The biggest thing is that she seems to be getting more and more comfortable with being divorced. Part of that I think comes from the fact that she is living at home and hasn't really gotten hit by any big bills or stuff like that. So for her getting divorced means 'freedom'. Today in family counseling some stuff came up to challenge that which I will post later.
Thanks again everyone! I'm really in a personal emotional crisis here and I need the support. I know I write great, logical posts explaining stuff and helpful concepts as I am learning them, but right now I am torn up inside.
Saw counselor today for family therapy. Here are some highlights.
D15 was asked what she would like to happen. She said she wanted the divorce quickly so she could get it over with. Move into separate homes and start healing. She said she's tired of the interactions between W and I because she doesn't think we can be 'friends' as we live together.
C asks her 'ok, and if there are two households how do you see yourself living in that situation?'
D15 says, while looking at W: 'Mom, I don't want to hurt you but I think D10 and I should live with daddy. He's the most stable person in the house right now. You just aren't emotionally there for us, and you aren't a stable presence.' (whoa! D15 later told me she was afraid W would think I put her up to it but she had to say it)
W crys a little and asks why she thinks that, but today she has had a very good front up so it doesn't get through to her that much. D15 talks about some of the stuff that's happened in the past few days that I also observed and says she just doesn't want to be exposed to it any more.
C asks me what I would miss if we had two households. I say I would miss not having my girls around all the time. Asks W the same question, who suddenly starts to tear up and says she would miss not having them and the aloneness she would feel when they are gone with me. (What? Was she thinking this would be all fun?)
Then she asks W : how would you help to support yourself and the kids when you are in your own separate home? W says: Well, um I could get a job and try to make more money than I do now.
She asks me: What would you like W to do to help you to support two households? I say that she would be better suited to take care of the girls during the weekdays so I would do my best to keep them in a good home but it would be hard. She says: You think you'll have to work more hours or harder? Me: Yes but I know I can do it. C: But do you think you can hold yourself together while being under so much stress? Me: I don't know. I think so but it will be hard. But I will do it for my girls. C says: I know you will, for all THREE of the girls.
(gotta love her, she is basically showing W how much of a burden this is putting on me, yet I am willing to do anything to keep them safe and cared for, including HER)
Later when asked what I have to say to W, I say that I would like it if she would be aware that her mood seems to go up and down and it seems to be related to whether or not she is talking to OM on a regular basis because when she's down for a couple days but then IM's him her attitude suddenly goes way up and stays there. She says she had been down because of other things, processing some 'losses' in her life. Then she says she has hardly IM'd with him this week and give me a bad look.
Her comments about me are that she thinks I have suddenly become passive aggressive with her. I think she is interpreting my withdrawal in that way because I speak in short sentences and stay quiet or am not around. Too bad.
Overall the general theme of the discussion centered around D15 totally having no trust in W as far as her ability to be responsible for the kids and her total trust in me. It was also centered around how much life will change when we are apart. W had to see what she was looking forward to and how it would impact her and the girls.
She had to see that as a responsible father and man I was being forced to support two households and the amount of stress it puts on me. Basically there were no GOOD things discussed regarding us being divorced. All bad.
Later that evening D15 had a talk about things. She told me how she was afraid to say what she said but that she was pissed that W acts like she is all together and it comes across as so fake. I said she wasn't "genuine" and she liked that description. She then described the times over the weekend that I mentioned in previous posts and hw fake she was and how she really didn't want to be around her. Wow.
D15 went on to say how she has been having to rethink 'who she is' because she got most of her identity from W allthese years because while I was in my depression she really didn't know me. Now she says she used to think her intuitive abilities and her core strengths were from W but she sees me now as being much more like that then W EVER was. Yet W is always telling ME how much more grounded and spiritual SHE is and I am the one who is 'shut down'.
For me, this was a very interesting observation from D15. Mostly because I never think of myself as 'spiritually guided' but all my life I have had a knack for surviving through things that most other people would panic in. I also have a knack for seeing a situation and understanding what it means and how to fix it. I think some of my posts show that to me.
D15 basically says that W is just like any of her other teenage friends in that she behaves badly and is self centered. Wow.
Her biggest gripe though is that she wished W and I would be in the same emotional state at the same time. I was depressed for year, then W goes off and I get better. Why can't we both be 'better' at the same time. I couldn't explain that one to her other than to tell her that her mom put up with a lot from me so don't look down on her right now.
I didn't ask her any of this, she just started talking and said it all.
Today I also saw my Psychiatrist. See, in order to get anti depressants you have to see a psychiatrist because a regular doctor won't prescribe them. So I see this dr. every 3 months to get my prescriptions and talk for about 15 minutes. She doesn't usually talk much to me because she knows I have a couselor who is good.
I hadn't seen her since the bomb and told her what had been going on. She was surprised but then went of a long tirade about 'women who suddenly walk away from their life so they can be teenagers again!. She described W's actions and gave me some examples of other women she treats (no names of course) and told me 'It just amazes me how many women will just walk away from their H's in their mid to late 30's so they can find out what they think they missed while they were being a mother. They think the grass is greener on the other side, most end up having an affair and it's almost always with a guy who is a jerk! In her experience the majority come from strong stable marriages too. She said that she will have a woman in her office and talk to her about all the love and stability they are leaving behind and they just don't care, they gotta have whatever it is they think they are missing.
Most end in divorce, because the women piss off the men long enough and bad enough to where they just don't want to deal with them any more.
I told her about OM and his 'I will move out west this year' promise and she laughed and said " I doubt it!". So far everyone I know says that, except for ME.
Anyway, it's amazing to me that no matter where you look you find these stories of WAW's and they are all the same!
She told me that I shouldn't blame myself, that even though we had problems she would have done this anyway. The problems just make it easier for her to justify it. She said that all LBS's should let them go and focus on themselves and their families. And DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF because no matter what you did or think you did, it wasn't enought to cause this to happen, it was going to happen anyway.
Think my spelling may be off but did I see some of the BB'ers starting a 'calling club' of guys calling the ladies so that the WAH could wonder who was calling them?
Cool idea. Is there a group for ladies to call guys so we can mess with WAW's heads? You know leave vague messages? It's not like we have to actually talk as messages would be even BETTER.
because no matter what you did or think you did, it wasn't enought to cause this to happen, it was going to happen anyway.
I believe that. At first, when I started learning about meeting emotional needs and all, I saw where I wasn't on track. As time went on, I realized the possibility that perhaps some of her needs were a bit too much for anyone to meet on a long term basis, having to do more with her dealing with her own issues and coping abilities than being spoon fed them by someone else. Also, the knowledge that thinking "if only I had done this or that" is way too simplistic and does not rule out that things would have turned out the way they did, and the fact that many relationships have common problems as mine did, that need to be dealt with appropriately, but which she handled very inappropriately, all indicates that, yes, this was bound to happen sooner or later, no matter what I may or may not have done.
I think you should listen to the psychiatrist. H and I went to joint C with one therapist and I went individually to another T. Both of these professionals told me that what happened in my M had nothing to do with me. That this happened because of H's issues. I remember replying that even if that were true, it doesn't make it hurt any less.
It really isn't about us. It's something they need to work through. Can we make improvements in ourselves and our R? Sure. But, the underlying issue has to be dealt with by our WAS.
One of the reasons I see hope in your sitch is that your W continues to go to C with you and Ds. She has not closed off the idea of getting help. I think your therapist is pretty slick, too. W may think she is just working on being good friends and coparents but there is more going on than that.
Hang in there Frank.
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
