She said that all LBS's should let them go and focus on themselves and their families. And DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF because no matter what you did or think you did, it wasn't enought to cause this to happen, it was going to happen anyway.
Good for all of us to read, frank. I wanted to say I agree with spitfire, in that you have 2 huge pluses here: 1. Wife still lives at home 2. She attends counseling with you
Both are big positives. I know many of us wish we had the same situation. It's hard to DB when the spouse moves out.
You are doing a wonderful job, frank.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Quote: One of the reasons I see hope in your sitch is that your W continues to go to C with you and Ds. She has not closed off the idea of getting help. I think your therapist is pretty slick, too. W may think she is just working on being good friends and coparents but there is more going on than that.
Yes, there is. We had 'couples counseling' today. This was by far the most explosive session ever. W totally lost it, expressing the hurt she had been harboring for the past several years because I was depressed and drinking and she couldn't do anything about it. Lot's of yelling at me. It was very theraputic.
Counselor got to the root of things: W was too young and inexperienced in relationships to know what to do when I was down and out. She felt unloved by me because of my situation, but I felt unloved by her because of her lack of support. Catch-22 where both of us were emotionally lost.
I could go on but suffice it to say that she is hurt, and some of what she is doing is to run from that hurt. While she blames me for 99% of everything, she is hearing from me how I hurt, and how she didn't express herself to me so I would feel wanted.
She says that even today she has bad dreams where I get depressed and start drinking again. She won't ever believe me when I say I am better now (which I am) because she has heard it before. She just want's to learn how to stop hating me so she can move on.
Privately Counselor said to me that she will eventually have to re-examine the relationship we had and decide if she really doesn't want anything to do with it ever again. And, since we live in the same house she will see me not drink and be a good father for a year. C seemed very hopeful.
As far as my DB'ing, Counselor said I do need to detach and be less available so she can have her space and see how she feels without me. She said the anger yesterday regarding the walk we had together and my detachment, which W called me being passive-aggressive was her unhappy with me not being available to her.
She told us both to treat each other with reverance and love and drop all expectations that we will react in any way like we did in the past.
One more thing, which I want to say to all the men and women on the board. Counselor said that maybe 1 in 10, or less, husbands or wives will stick it out like we do, DB'ing and working on healing. Our S's DO see that. They expected us to cry, whine and leave with out tail between our legs. 'Good riddance' they say. Us working on the relationship shows them that we love them, even though they don't want to love us.
Quote: It really isn't about us. It's something they need to work through. Can we make improvements in ourselves and our R? Sure. But, the underlying issue has to be dealt with by our WAS.
It is far less about us. I've had similar conversations with my T and friends. This is something - and a pattern for my W (that was broken for 12 years) that she needs to work through. It just sucks that I need to be on the sideline watching. But, think of all the good we have done for ourselves (and your D's which I think it great - sounds like you are a great father).
There is a great deal of hope for your M - stay the course. Further, I still need your inspiration. I was at the house tonight and almost snooped. But I remembered my promise!
E
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
I'm going to reply to my own post. I think like AmyC with her husband, I am seeing why W is a WAW emotionally. Her affair really means nothing, it's just a way to hide the hurt as demonstrated by the counseling today.
I never truly understood the depth of the pain she was feeling. She never truly understood the hurt and lonelyness I was going through. Little by little we chip at it in counseling so we can each find some peace.
I told W that my primary goal in the counseling is to help her release her hurt and anger with me so at the very least her life without me won't have that baggage. Even though she felt she 'did everything she could' in our marriage, she was not stronger than I was, even in my depressed state, and didn't do anything she thought I wouldn't approve of. Of course, that meant she did nothing.
It seems like there is an infinite number of things that went wrong for us. It also seems insurmountable. Our counselor said that since she NEVER yelled at me and kept so much in that it's going to be a lot of time and effort to let it out. I witnessed her sob uncontrollably for 5 minutes and Counselor having to hold her to calm her down. I'll be sitting in a lot of sessions letting W cry and yell at me to heal the pain. But, it's necessary.
She holds it against me that I only changed myself after she said it was 'over' and is wary that it's not for real. But we all know that for men, it's ACTIONS that motivate us, not words or threats. Small comfort though.
The fact that she still 'has bad dreams that I am drinking again' tells a story. Why would she care if she doesn't need me. I guess because she doesn't want the kids to be let down by me. She can find a whole list of 'good' qualities in me and says I am a 'wonderful' man. But it's those few bad ones that she doesn't trust any more.
Regardless, she's been quiet tonite and seems a little down. I'm not suprised, both of our souls were bared today and they are damaged. I'm trying to be upbeat but I think I should just stay out of her way and give her space. Actually detaching and letting go will be easier now because I don't feel very worthy of her true self, whenever she lets that woman out again. She's a gentle soul who needs to be loved with reverence and softness. But she also needs to learn how to care for a man when he is UP and when he is DOWN.
I'm still not sure if this is a positive step towards fixing our relationship - she still says she wants a divorce. But Counselor said that she HAS to be re-evaluating the relationship and what SHE could have done differently and whether she DID want it to work. Maybe someday a door will open a crack. Maybe she still loves me.
As DB'ers we sometimes never get to see into the soul of our WAS to witness the hurt inside. I saw it today and I am so ashamed. AmyC, I understand how you feel now.
I hope everyone gets the chance to witness their own WAS's hurt first hand. I think if we all did that we'd have a better chance of rebuilding.
I know I'm a good man, I always was. After all I began DB'ing and I truly love my wife and family. I've endured an affair and been supportive as possible to my wife. I came to the plate and have been willing to admit my wrongs. Most men wouldn't. These past few months have been eye opening and I have a better relationship with my kids than I ever had in their whole lives. Before I hardly knew them.
It's amazing the things we do to hurt each other and we don't even know we're doing it. If we only took care of OURSELVES better we'd be able to love and care for others better.
I'll be alright, I always am. I'll keep DB'ing till I see no hope and then I'll STILL DB so I can keep a good relationship with my Ex.
I hope this helps others to understand their WAS's.
I spoke with a friend tonite and told him I just can't see why my wife would trust in our relationship to give it another chance. I know I wouldn't trust it either. I think she is checked out for good and eventually in a few months we'll have taken all the garbage out of our heads and at least have a shot at having normal lives on our own.
Kinda lucky my Dr gave me better anti depressants yesterday. Good timing since I would have been much more non functional today without them. But with me things seem to show up in my life when I need them. I guess I was supposed to feel all the pain the past 3 months. Now it's ok for me to be less hurting all the time.
Quote: the underlying issue has to be dealt with by our WAS.
Yes, and in this case it will make here able to move on to a healthier life. My responsibility is to be there to accept my role and help her forgive so she can move on.
Whatever is going to happen, my life will never be like it was ever again, which is a good thing.
W says she loves me and goes on a trip. Then falls for someone she meets in one day and is her soulmate.
She pursues him for weeks till she is able to go see him, then they sleep together and are 'in love'.
All this time she tells me that we were going to get divorced eventually. It's not because of him. Nope, not at all.
After 'in love' begins she treats me like I am just a friend with no regards to how I might feel. She becomes very superficial with the kids, who notice. She spends time calling, e-mailing and messenging with OM who is far away. He starts promising to see her, to move near her and other stupidity.
After a month of that she starts having problems sleeping and sudden mood swings. She is down for days, then up and happy. It's a daily rollercoaster.
Finally, we see our counselor together and the floodgates open. She is hurt, angry, sad, ashamed of how our marriage went. And it is all because of me and things I was doing during my depression and drinking days. She was 'trapped' with nowhere to go and wanted me to get better but finally gave up, then met OM which made her decide to actually divorce.
What a lot of change in 3 months. Up until the trip to see OM, she and I have a really good 'being friends' relationship. I can see her soul in her eyes still. I can feel her love sometimes. After OM she is emotionally gone.
Quote: So, IOW, she's pretty much following the WAS manual. Well, that makes her somewhat more predictable for your handling the sitch.
Yes, I can agree with that, she is 'classic' WAS except for one thing. The deep hurt she is experiencing that I caused by not taking care of her. That in itself makes it hard to believe she would ever want to be married to me. Especially since OM has none of that baggage. Regardless of how that relationship turns out, she wants to 'feel better' and OM does that for her. It's more an EA than a PA due to the distance but thats what she needs. Even if/when that ends she's going to look elsewhere for that feeling. And she'll keep OM going as long as she can so she CAN feel better. Even with all the negatives WE see in him, to her he's a safer choice than being with me.
I didn't know any of this was going on inside her the past few years. If I did, I know I would have done something about it, even given where I was emotionally. She was mine to care for and I failed her. Sure, I can come up with a hundred ways she failed me, but it doesn't change what I did and how it affected her.
I know I'm a good man, she wouldn't have married a scumbag. And I know I am a good dad, a strong person, a trustworthy and sympathetic soul. I am all those things when I keep myself in my heart space and strength and don't self medicate to run from that pain that overwhelmed me. I couldn't have had the level of success in my business life and the respect of everyone who comes in contact with me if I wasn't a good person. I've never screwed anybody, but I've been screwed in business. So, I have integrity.
I just don't feel like it matters any more what I do with her. I'm an anchor for all that is painful in her life and nothing that is pleasant. OM represents only pleasant feelings or, if any are bad, they are nothing compared to mine. How can I overcome that?
I've cried more the past 2 days than I have the whole 3 months. Guilt and loss. I guess it means I have a heart and soul still.
I'm kinda feeling like I can redeem myself in the eyes of God or whatever by letting her live her life with OM or whomever, propping up our financials and being a good dad to my kids. For the next year of living in the same house I can at least remove the worries of what will she do as a single mom from her and put together a plan for supporting two households till D10 is old enough to leave home. W deserves to be happy after all the stuff she lived through. Yeah, 90% of the time was 'good' but it's the wounds we inflict on others that they remember. I don't care about OM any more, if it makes her happy then that's what matters to me.
I will work on 'detached' and 'letting go', it's not like there is a choice. Maybe there still is some feeling for me inside her that isn't just hurt. That's what sucks the most. She says sh recognizes all the goodness and love she knows is the genuine me, but it's the years of hurt she has buried in herself that make her run away.
So DB'ing for me is pretty simple. Detach, Let Go and maybe by some miracle she will still love me enough to make it work for real this time but I won't count on it. Either way I love her enough to let her go and make her own life happier.
Isn't that why we are here? Because we do love them enough to do whatever it takes to be happy?
Quote: As DB'ers we sometimes never get to see into the soul of our WAS to witness the hurt inside. I saw it today and I am so ashamed. AmyC, I understand how you feel now.
I've been there--I know just what you mean. You sound better, Frank--clearer and more resolved.
Yes, I can agree with that, she is 'classic' WAS except for one thing. The deep hurt she is experiencing that I caused by not taking care of her. That in itself makes it hard to believe she would ever want to be married to me. Especially since OM has none of that baggage.
Mmm, that's not an exception. I found that in the index of the WAS manual, it's on page 196.
Correspondingly, pg. 196 of the LBS manual points out that virtually every reconciliation is between two people where one may have previously been hurt so much that they had broken the relationship. It goes on to point out that in time, same old issues she has and new ones OP brings to the table can create new bad history for her with him, yadda, yadda.
Time is needed for the WAS's wounds to heal and the emotional history to dissipate. This is also helped along by the LBS creating new positive moments in the interim, and that will also show consistency.
Either way I love her enough to let her go and make her own life happier. Isn't that why we are here? Because we do love them enough to do whatever it takes to be happy?
And your happiness too. And perchance maybe really their real happiness doesn't lay in being with someone else, but in making the primary relationship the best one ever. Who's to say? I'd think making yourself genuinely into the better option, regardless of if she wants it or not, is a way of working on both your own happiness (foremost), and hers.
