The slow walk home

[StrongNSassy]

So I will begin to block HIM out of my thoughts and see HER as someone to pity because she feels the only way she can be loved is to chase losers instead of FIGHTING for a man she KNOWS is a winner. She said so herself that I was wonderful, etc. I pity her for having to see her life as a series of 'spiritual experiments' that if she messes one up, she'll get it right in another life, or if she finds 'the one' from a past life she can be happy with them now, even if their current life is less than optimal. Pity her because she thinks that running away has always been the option when you have problems that you can't solve. Instead of reaching out to those who can help you, like I eventually did on my own. I am almost done blaming myself as I have seen her hurt first hand, but also seen that SHE DID NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL to deal with OUR (not just my) problems. It doesn't make me BLAME her but it does make me feel less guilty.

For some reason, I really like this Frank. It's a different viewpoint as opposed to blaming them or ourselves. Interesting perspective...

[SvenTheRed]

Yeah, she gave me the 'are you dating because if you are that would be great' line. I told her that wouldn't happen for a couple years because I know that I am not in an emotional place where I COULD be in a relationship. Of course, SHE is in that place isn't she? She couldn't be in a relationship with me, how could she have one that is healthy with someone else?

So I will begin to block HIM out of my thoughts and see HER as someone to pity because she feels the only way she can be loved is to chase losers instead of FIGHTING for a man she KNOWS is a winner. She said so herself that I was wonderful, etc.

I am almost done blaming myself as I have seen her hurt first hand, but also seen that SHE DID NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL to deal with OUR (not just my) problems. It doesn't make me BLAME her but it does make me feel less guilty.

Okay, again, way too many parallels. Don't even know where to start so I won't.

We're on the right path Frank. But I think you said it a couple times - look at how DEEP we have gone to understand ourselves. We have done RIGHT by ourselves and we have to constantly remind ourselves of that. It will ultimately draw our WAW's back to us - or maybe not. But think of how prepared we will be for whatever is next - when we are ready. We CONTROL that and can do it with CONFIDENCE. Check out HardHeads post on confidence and cowardice if you have not already. Think it speaks nicely to the sitch.

To close on something my W said today - and I lied to her, but okay.

The boys and me had a great weekend - you might have read in my post. W calls on her way to work this afternoon - I didn't answer - we were sledding and having fun. Anyway, first, she makes the comment that I am avoiding her....tee hee.

But in her message, she asks if I'll bring the boys by the restaurant thtat she works for dinner. That she misses them....having to work weekends and such and going to her "girlfriends" - a lie, but okay. I lie and tell her they miss her too - call it an A&V. (Boys have not brought up MOM all weekend - I kid you not. That's fathering!)

Anyway - stay the course Frank...

E

[frank_D]

WOW!
so how can we help our W escape reality for awhile and find the same excitement with us?

We ARE reality. A NEW reality. The OLD reality is gone now, along with the old hurts and behaviors. This is where she needs to find that excitement. How do we help her? Be exciting! If you can, get her to go do fun stuff with no expectations. What did you do when you were dating?

We shouldn't have to escape reality - reality should have fun built into it!

[Tim297181]

You are right we are in reality however harsh it may seem! Frank you have read my postings my question is do I outwardly be loving, affectionate, and caring when my W is distant and possibly thinking of the OM? Where is the line of pushing and what is showing love?

[frank_D]

do I outwardly be loving, affectionate, and caring when my W is distant and possibly thinking of the OM? Where is the line of pushing and what is showing love?

Well, I know in my sitch I prefer to pull back at those times because she sure isn't thinking about ME! I prefer to leave her in her own thoughts so she can process them.

I make myself less available by going to my room and reading, or go for a walk or something. It makes me feel better. If she comes and finds me to talk, then I'm nice but I stick to short answers or comments UNLESS I can see she has something about her feelings to talk about.

I want her to respect my space and boundaries too. When she calls OM she has violated them big time. She should not be able to call OM and then expect me to go 'hi hon, let's have a hug!' (unless for some reason she is hurting and needs one - that always trumps detachment for me).

Personally, I think youw W needs to think that you are becoming LESS interested in reconciling while she is talking to OM. Like I said, upset the balance on the see saw.

[frank_D]

Well hey,

W came home tonite about 7 pm from visting her %@^!%@ girlfriend overnite. GF was kind enough to give her a travel guide and map of Connecticut, where OM lives. This GF is a real loser who never liked me and is ecstatic that W is 'in love' regardless of how the kids or me feel or if it's Adultery.

Anyway, from the minute she got home W was a pain to talk to or deal with, very angry about something. I will GUESS it's because she can't go see OM because she can't afford it and he isn't coming here to see her for whatever reason. She probably talked about him at length with GF. Whatever.

So, she goes into D15's room to say hi and comes donwstairs all pissy and says D15 is being 'snippy' to her. I ask how is she, and W tells me 'just her attitude when I asked her to do something'.

I went to talk to D15 and she asked me if we could go for a drive and talk so I say OK. I tell W that we are going and she glares at me. Great.

D15 tells me al W did was tell her to do a bunch of things 'like she was acting like my mother, but she was talking to me like a teenager would and had NO respect for my opinions'. Ok, I'm sure D15 was also acting like a teenager and I told her to be respectful of her mother. She says 'How can I when it's so clear she doesn't want to BE MY MOTHER, she want's to be somewhere else and do something else. (D15 doesn't know about OM who lives far away). She want's to 'find herself'.

She says she would like it if we could just split up the household now, and W could go live by herself and do whatever she wants to do. She has had enough of W acting like she really doesn't want to be here any more. I kind of feel the same way, we'd be better off if she would get out. Go live with OM in CT and have a nice time.

She says it is so obvious that W has checkout out of our relationship and marriage and even her family. Now I know some of this is just teenager anger but she is pretty intuitive.

We talked about a lot of things that we'll have to deal with 'when' we divorce and I told her I wasn't going to be dating for a couple years. She said 'I don't worry about you Dad, I worry about MOM dating'. I didn't ask her what she meant but I think I know.

Earlier D10 had an emotional breakdown because she thought W wasn't coming home. I ended up taking her to the park for a couple hours and spent a lot of quality time with her. Told her Mom was not going to leave her, and neither was I. She felt a lot better and when W came home later she was a little clingy.

I told W about this later and she said 'why didn't you call me on my cell so I could tell her I was coming home?" I said 'D10 knows your number, if she wanted to talk to you she would have called you. This was about her worrying that some day you'll leave and never come back. She needed more than a phone call, and I spent time reassuring her and talking to her about all that's going on.

W: Well you should have called me. You would have wanted me to call you if this was about you.

Me: No, I would have wanted you to comfort her and help her through her feelings.

W: Well I want you to call me next time.

Me: ok.

She never asked me 'what did you talk about' or anything else. Just 'why didn't you call me'. All about her.

Man, this sucks having to deal with a 10 year old, a 15 year old teenager and a 37 year old teenager. It's all I can do to hold ME together when I see her friend helping her to see OM. D15 knows that 'friend' doesn't like me but has no idea about the rest. And it's so hard to not tell her that the reason W is down and unhappy is because she can't go see her boyfriend and it irks her. She thinks it's because of her anger at ME and that W doesn't want to be a mom any more.

Eventually she will find out about OM and W will be dead meat.

I really couldn't talk to W after the kids went to bed. Just didn't want to any more. I probably came off as a little angry but I did my best to be neutral. I'm sorry but I just don't like her because she is hurting my kids. If she was a NORMAL woman getting a divorce she would be more sensitive to their needs, but she is just as needy.

I am so tired today. The emotional stuff with the kids really weighs on me, but it also helps my detachment because it makes me a little angry at W and then I pity her. The only way she could do anything about our problems was to run away to someone else. Then I fixed every one of MY problems but she has now become the problem.

If space aliens have her, they are sure messing with us a lot.

I really wish she would go away. D15 would be fine with me and between her and I we could keep D10 feeling loved and happy. Maybe after she get's some real time with OM she would see that the grass is DEAD there. Oh, but wait, she CAN'T go live with OM, he still lives with his EX girlfriend he recently dumped because he can't afford to move out on his own. So he says.. Oops! But wait, he's going to MOVE WEST in less than a year! Woo Hoo! Is this love or is this love!?

ok, I'm being mean.

I have no idea how W will ever get me back if she ever decides to. I look at her as being a bit of as jerk and ridiculous. Oh, and don't forget slut or whore for sleeping with OM.

So, detachment here I come! Don't care, be aloof, no problem. She doesn't want to be here ANYWAY and the kids know it. The more I focus on THEM the better I feel about ME. And the worse I feel about her. She used to be a great mom, the best. Now she is barely there emotionally.

Oh, I meant to mention this because someone pointed it out to me the other day. W didn't ask for Separation and D in person, she called me from her cell phone and told me she changed her mind about 'working on things' and wanted a Divorce. Pretty cowardly.

[Keyster43]

Hey frank,
You have some golden opportunities here to turn things on their head. First is this comment;

Yeah, she gave me the 'are you dating because if you are that would be great' line. I told her that wouldn't happen for a couple years because I know that I am not in an emotional place where I COULD be in a relationship. Of course, SHE is in that place isn't she? She couldn't be in a relationship with me, how could she have one that is healthy with someone else?

Your W was fishing for info here and you gave her way more than she needed to know. You can still take what she said and use this to your advantage. What I would have done was to repeat what she said, showing her you listened, and then agreed with her. Now what you can do is bring up the topic again, agree that "yes I sholud start dating". Then, that very evening, get dressed up and go out. Tell her you are going out nothing more. It will drive her crazy. She said go out and date, so just do it.

As for this GF of your W's, try and figure out a way of using her to your advantage; this is going to take some thought. Your W was, or is, angry because she cant get to Conn. to see OM. Show her you empathize with her and show compassion, use the pity thing here to add sicerity. Tell her how sorry you are she cant go, do it with feeling, and its easier if you pity her. Then tell her if you could find a way for her to go you would. In fact actually get flight info and give it to her. Tell her to take all the time she needs with OM. Also, find out why OM cant make it to CA and work on this, but with compassion and feeling; pity her. Combined with the dating thing, she will go crazy. Remember, if she starts to argue, just agree and validate. Always have pity for her out of love. This will make it so much easier. Especially when you see how well this is going to work. Your goals are to 1) show her that you feel for her in her hour of need 2) you are so understanding and just want to help 3) you dont need her to be happy. Once she sees these things, the OM will toast. Ahhh...and another thing to start is to plant seeds of doubt in her mind about OM. Say things like "Hmmm...I wonder what he is doing tonight." Your W will answer and you say "Well if I was him I would be ______". Then turn around and go out on your little "date". Leave her to think about it. I guarantee this will drive her crazy. This will probably result in her becoming very snippy, but thats ok, thats what you want. Let it slide and dont get caught up in the moment. Just agree and validate. Look for opportunities to feel pity and console her in a loving way. She will eat it up. Go for it Frank .

AK

[grasshopper]

Frank,

I have just finished reading all 8 pages of this thread and I feel for you man. I am about a week in on my sitch (and I would LOVE you to comment on it)

My story thread 1

Update (and where I will continue to post)

You are doing all of us such a service by posting the way you do. I know for me personally, I have been lifted as high as I have been in days just from reading your accounts. It is one thing to have a notion that you are going through something similar to somebody else, quite another to have such detail to support that theory.
Thank you. As far as your situation, I am in the same boat as far as the roller-coaster of feeling that I love her and will suffer any pain to allow her to come back to me, to feeling that I hate her and she can have her OM and have a great life.
Difference with my sitch is that her OM is VERY local and I have actually run into them twice, once with the kids in tow (that time, I made sure once I saw them I quickly went the other direction in the car).
The added dimension to my problem is the proximity but from reading your accounts, I see that it may be no better to have the OM be long distance.
I hope you continue to progress and I hope you find a way to keep ahold of the kindness that you display here and the love that you obviously feel for your family, including your wife. She may not deserve it, or you may not deserve the woman she once was but if you make it through this, you will have a legacy of openness and caring that would be enviable to all but the coldest among us.
Power to you Frank and I really do hope your story ends well. You really deserve it.
I will continue to follow your story.

totallymessedup

[frank_D]

Your W was, or is, angry because she cant get to Conn. to see OM. Tell her how sorry you are she cant go, do it with feeling, and its easier if you pity her. Then tell her if you could find a way for her to go you would. In fact actually get flight info and give it to her. Tell her to take all the time she needs with OM. Also, find out why OM cant make it to CA and work on this, but with compassion and feeling; pity her. Ahhh...and another thing to start is to plant seeds of doubt in her mind about OM. Say things like "Hmmm...I wonder what he is doing tonight."

I did actually tell her how sorry I was that she was unhappy at xmas time because she couldn't be with OM. At first she thought I was mocking her, but when she realized I was being compassionate she cried a little and told me how torn up she was inside since she knew she should be happy to be here with the kids. I got some points for that one but it was fleeting.

As far as me finding a way for her to go, of course I could. So could she. She has access to ALL our money and has several thousand $$$ on her credit card. She cries poverty but her last trip was a mere $400 including the hotel SHE paid for. You'd think he would at least pay the hotel so all she has to pay is airfare. Yet, she doesn't go. Which brings us to the third thing: Why doesn't OM come here? Costs are the same and SHE could pay hotel costs at motel 6 ($49). I mean, if he is IN LOVE wouldn't he want to see her? This is the mystery to me. I dated a girl in college who graduated and moved to Ohio (I lived in NY) I still flew to see her every 2 weeks until it became clear that if I didn't move there we wouldn't last. I loved her but didn't move because it was too hard for me to leave my roots at that time, and she broke up with me.

So your comment on 'planting the seeds of doubt' would cause me more problems because she would think I am mocking her or being mean. Given her insecurities I would think that SHE is wondering on her own WHY he isn't trying really hard to see her. Although when she got back from her december trip she told me they would 'rarely' see each other because of their sitch's. So it is a tragic love affair, how dramatic.

This is all a crock, I would never have a 'relationship' like she is in. As a man, I would do whatever I had to do to scrimp and save $$ to get to my 'love of my life'. Wouldn't you?

I really think she is subconsciously waiting to see if he WILL do it rather than her going to see him.

On another side note regarding money, I told her this morning that she has to pay 1/2 the utilites from now on to live here since we are 'separated'. I'll post more on that conversation later.

[Tim297181]

"Upset the sea saw"?!
I just had a phone session with one of the DB's counsultation! It was great -- HIGHLY RECOMMEND the investmet!
But he said I should use the technique "Act as if" described in Michelle's book. I am not a good actor but you have to act as if the actions that your W is doing is not as big as an issue that you feel in the inside. When she calls the OM or is cold and distant let her do her thing and outwardly act different than your normal recation. For me that is remain positive and upbeat and try to keep a smile on my face. The councilor said that my W will feel the guilt and wants the normal reaction, and when she doesn't get it she will show interst as to why.
He also tried to help with "HOw to be more interesting" to my W. He said write down a life list as to all your goals and aspirations in life regardless of how crazy! Things tha get my juices flowing! Start doing them and tell your W after you accmplish one and see if she shows more interest! For me it maybe as simple as going to a YOga class or a dance class (no rythm and 2 left feet) or a little more extreme as a tatoo or a (foregie me) a nipple piercing!
Anyways the bottom line as everyone has said is going on with your life! For me I am still going to remain affectionate and loving towards my W, but try to spice up my own life that is a little more extreme and exciting for me and that may attract my wife!