Quote: But he said I should use the technique "Act as if" described in Michelle's book. I am not a good actor but you have to act as if the actions that your W is doing is not as big as an issue that you feel in the inside.
On page 219 in the 'after the last resort' they say a similar thing as I suggested except more drastic. "Tell them you've had enough. Tell them you are letting go until they can decide what they want." etc...
The suggestion I made was more gentle. Essentially Tell her to go and figure it out and you'll be waiting, or not.
You are at a standoff and changing the balance of power often breaks a standoff.
The DB coaches are but one of many opinions. You have to decide what YOU can do and what fits your situation. By all means DO follow them if you think it fits your sitch.
What I suggested had some results for ME - it made W have to consider that what she is doing is not going to keep me hanging forever. She did NOT go to OM and has had to resolve the conflict in her as to WHY she did not go. She is finally in therapy.
Do what works for YOU, but when you ask for OPINIONS don't take someones comments that YOU didn't agree with or understand and throw it back in the persons face as in "Upset the sea saw"?! as if they were stupid for saying it.
It's insulting. We are all here to help each other. BUT we are also responsible for listening to the opinions we get from others and deciding which one fits OUR situation. And for being respectful of those opinions.
I hope everything works out for you. The DB coaches are very good.
By the way, if anyone was wondering, you can send me e-mail at platinumweasel@yahoo.com if you have something to talk about that you want to remain private. Don't worry, I can take abuse too! My wife is a professional since the aliens got her!
You are doing all of us such a service by posting the way you do. I know for me personally, I have been lifted as high as I have been in days just from reading your accounts. It is one thing to have a notion that you are going through something similar to somebody else, quite another to have such detail to support that theory
Thanks for the support. I like to write as much as I can about my experiences so that others can compare theirs with me and hopefully give ME advice! I can always use it! But, as Tim pointed out today you DO have to gather a lot of opinions and apply the one that works for YOU. Every sitch is different.
Quote: This is all a crock, I would never have a 'relationship' like she is in. As a man, I would do whatever I had to do to scrimp and save $$ to get to my 'love of my life'. Wouldn't you?
Absofreakinglutely...so if you stand back and look at the BIG picture...does it appear to you that she is pursuing him...if he's not willing to make the next step to come see her, maybe he's just not into her (hmmm...seems like a good title for a book?).
You haven't convinced me yet that he hasn't given up his GF...so that means, you aren't convinced either, are you? If he was emotionally and physically available for your W as a potential SOUL MATE then come hell or high water that man would find a way to her...and I speak this from experience Frank...
When I was 21, I met a boy from Edmonton, Canada. I lived in LA at the time. We met on his last two days in LA. Something clicked obviously because the next summer my best friend and I flew up to Canada and spent the summer there with him and his best friend...he must have thought I was WORTH it because the following summer, even though he moved to Ontario to go to school...he drove all the way to LA to spend the summer with me...we talked about getting married that summer...but it was after he left I ended up meeting my exH....oh damn...there was my fork in the road, eh?
Sorry Frank! I never wanted you to feel that thought your opinion was wrong or I did not appreciate it! I am new to this message board thing, and trying to convey your feelings into a short message! I agree with everything you said! I do need to upset the balance and get the whole R off the sea saw. I truly believe what you did took strength and I am not sure if it would work in my situation (just yet).. I am going to try the "kill'em with kindness" approach and wait to see if she brings the OM up after a week or so. I know she is seeing him and is talking to him (I don't need to check the phones anymore) so I will wait it out and see what happens. If she is seeing him and talking to and comes clean with it after I have tried the "Act as if approach" I think I will have to take your advice Frank and try a more a direct approach to the OM and this ping pong ball effect! Sorry again Frank for any questions becasue your words have really helped me think things thru over a very tough few days!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Sassy thanks for your insight. Problem is I think OM is nuts.
Quote: Absofreakinglutely...so if you stand back and look at the BIG picture...does it appear to you that she is pursuing him...if he's not willing to make the next step to come see her, maybe he's just not into her
As usual I am my own devils advocate.... Orbitz says it's about $200 round trip. Maybe he HAS set up a visit but I don't get that impression so far. She hasn't erased out of her scheduler the week she marked out in mid february that he was supposed to come visit. But then, since she would have to make up a story about going to visit one of her friends, she would have told me by now if he WAS coming. Or maybe not.
In your example the guy came to spend the summer, well OM says he's going to 'MOVE WEST' as he put it sometime in the next year. Maybe he's saving up?
Quote: You haven't convinced me yet that he hasn't given up his GF...so that means, you aren't convinced either, are you? If he was emotionally and physically available for your W as a potential SOUL MATE then come hell or high water that man would find a way to her...and I speak this from experience Frank...
You know EVERYBODY tells me this. I'm the only one who thinks that maybe he is really this weird and is 'hanging on' to her because HE is needy. His (ex) GF was very needy too. It seems to me that he picks women who are needy and in vulnerable states because they are 'safer'.
In e-mails he talks like GF and he are finished and she is moving on now. Yeah, Yeah I know talk is cheap. I hate to get hopeful.
I saw a mutual friend of W and I who met OM in Hawaii and she said she felt that the depression W has been in is partly from the guilt of what she sees she is doing to the family, and partly because OM is not available to her and HE isn't making a big effort. She thinks it's not as important to him as it is to her.
Maybe like the guy from Canada he is just hanging on till he can afford to make 'the big move' out west? In your story it was over two summers, about 9 months of waiting...
STILL, the guy is 39. Unless he is a TOTAL loser with the women he must be going out looking for someone. Otherwise he's pretty bored and lonely.
The real question is when will the endorphins wear off on HER?
Actually we were both in college at the time, thus the delays in our visits...but our communication (phone, letters and cards only back in 1984) was very consistent.
Hard to speculate what he is thinking...I am sure we can all agree on that. However, if he was moving west, perhaps there would be something more you would be seeing from W as far as distancing herself from you more because her "knight" was coming out. One has to wonder (again speculate) if perhaps deep down she knows that this isn't going where she thought it might be. Again, speculation...
The fortunate thing for you and to your advantage is that despite what you may be feeling, your W is still living with you and is going to counseling.
What is it with this airfare from west coast to east coast being cheaper than I am paying to fly east. Sheesh...maybe I do need to move back home!!
W came to talk to me and said I was 'bad mouthing' her to D15. The reason: D15 told her I said that 'mom was upset you took the decorations off the tree the other day' when she was angry at W. I didn't say that exactly I ASKED her why she had taked the decorations off the tree because MOM had noticed and we were wondering what was up with D15 that would make her do that. So now W thinks that every time I go for a drive with D15 I am 'bad mouthing' her. I told her I am not. I told her I love you and the girls love you and I do everything I can when D15 is mad at you to remind her of what you went through with me and how hurt you are. I said there is no way I will bad mouth her to the kids because she is their mom and I don't want them angry at her.
So this is a DB problem since now D15's anger is coming across as if I am the source. So now she is really mad at me.
I told W today that since we are 'separated' that if she were on her own she would get about $2500 in child support and alimony from me. In our current household that would basically pay the mortgage. So, I said she should pay half the utilities and health insurance. That comes out to be about $700 a month for her. With her credit card bill and other bills she already has to pay since they are 'her things' she is looking at about $1,200 a month. She started to cry and wanted to drop her health insurance and stupid stuff like that. I told her no way, I'll pay for it because she needs to have insurance. I can't have her hurt and the kids thinking I didn't do anything for her. I hate doing this but I know I need to because she's supposed to see that being 'single' isn't a free ride. I actually pay for a lot more than what I put on the spreadsheet. I didn't put food on it at all.
So, now I am the bad guy. But this is her life. She chose it and has to live it. She won't know how it feels to be 'single' if she doesn't have to live in reality.
ok, spent time with D15, she tells me mom is not relating to her on various levels. Acting like a teenager, telling D15 'why do you hate me' and other stuff like that.
Later, I ask W what happened and she tells a different story. I tell her what D15 said and she says that is not true. D15 doesn't lie, but neither does W. A little later I talk to D15 before bedtime. I tell her of my conversation with W and how W says she did NOT say 'why do you hate me". D15 says very calmly "Dad, she said it. I don't need to make it up". Now what do I do? Is W psychotic or is D15 trying to rock the boat?
Couselor had said that she can't just say 'I want a divorce' and not have to live the consequences. Since she won't move out into her own apartment then she has to pay to live here in the house.
I am trying so hard to make sure it doesn't look like I'm trying to hurt her financially. I made a bunch of concessions AND told her that all our therapy costs should come out of the shared funds. She was grateful for that as she had no idea how she would pay for therapy for herself. WHEW! I was worried she wouldn't accept the money and skip therapy, which is the ONLY hope for us. Small miracles. I took over payment for one of her credit cards since the only balance on it was money we used to buy an Oboe for our D15 to play. Of course ALL my credit cards were used in some way to furnish the house but that doesn't count, does it.
She had looked at her budget and actually could afford to pay her share of the utilities. I'm paying EVERYTHING else, mortgage, taxes, food and just asking her to pay half the utilities. She knows she needs to find a job for real now as she can't even afford to live HERE in our home as a room mate.
As we're talking about sharing expenses and other stuff tonite. We get to the life insurance payout ($500,000) and she says I should make the kids the beneficiarys instead of her.
Me: I want to keep you as the life insurance beneficiary. I trust you implicitly to take care of the kids if anything ever happens to me. In my whole life I've never had any reason not to trust you. (Until now, but only with OM, not with kids and money.)
She suddenly starts to cry about that statement. I add that I'm trying to be fair, not mean, and to tell me what she thinks should be different or what may be unfair. she says she understands that this is what divorcing couples do. I say 'Yes, I'm only trying to move on with my life and this is one of the things we have to do'. She says "I understand"
Thens she says:
W: (crying) I wish I could get over the anger I have for you
Me: I know, I'm sorry for all the hurt I caused you.
W: Well I'm sorry too. I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.
A minute later she gets up and goes to her room still crying. I wait a minute and follow her.
Me: W, I'm so sorry for all the hurt. I wish I could change things. I wish I could go back in time and fix it.
W: I wish, I wish. I wish you had done something 5 years ago so I wouldn't have to go through this now.
Me: So do I, but I'm doing something NOW.
W: (still crying) Yes, but it's too late.
Me: It's never too late!
W: Yes, sometimes it is. It is.
She Closes her door while still crying. A few minutes later I hear her sobbing loudly in her room. I should be there to comfort her but she doesn't want me to. I can see the hurt, and behind hurt that deep is love that deep, at least I think so.
WHat do you all think about this exchange with her? Over for good? She seems pretty convinced it is too late.
One other note: The anti depressents my Psych gave me have been doing wonders. I feel a lot less anxiety and much more even keeled in all my interactions with her. It makes detaching and being aloof easier too since I am not hurting or anxious as much. I wish I had these earlier!
