frank, You may be able to take advantage of this incident. When she gets up act all happy, and you are, and ask how she is feeling, in a fun nice way; not in an angry nasty way. Then tell her how fortuante it was that you were there for her, how you helped her. Then say,"Once we are Ded you will need to be carefull with what you eat. Who knows who be there for you when that happens". Then excuse yourself and leave for a couple hours. Let her stew about this and see what happens. Hopefully she calls the OM or GF and relates the story to them. It doesnt matter, but this is an opportunity that you must take full advantage of.
Frank I don't know what the answer is but I will give you my 2 cents! I would act happy! She is expecting you to come down on her! I would try to make a joke of it in a way..not that it was funny but make light of the situation since this was a 1 time thing! Maybe say something about life being a little too short and I was glad I was there for you as you were for me in my tough times! I don't know if that helps or not? My W did a similar thing last week after we had a serious dinner to discuss the OM. She went out with her friends from school (all 10 to 15 yrs younger than her) she came home at 2:30 am and was just bombed! she then told me first thing in the morning that she "tried" to smoke a joint with her friend! My wife hates smoking with a passion, and never could inhale! She tried dope a couple times in university but nothing serious! I never made a big deal of it and made it more of a joke than anything! I still don't know why she did it! Just as why did your wife?
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
She and I sat on opposite ends of the couch. Occasionally she would laugh and I would look over at her and she would NOT look at me. Ok, I figure she is ignoring me but that's just not the way she is, even during this 'separation' we are in.
You "figured" she's ignoring you, but maybe you figure wrong by personalizing her being somewhat absorbed in following the movie.
W goes to her room, then comes back into the kitchen looking scared and a little weird. She says 'I don't feel good, I feel dizzy'. I ask her for more information, got a fever, stuff like that. She has her hand on her chest and says 'feel my heart'. I do, it's about 120 BPS. she says 'well, you know those 'magic brownies' we had in the freezer? I ate one of them about an hour ago... Ok, she's all messed up now and I'm wondering if there was anything besides pot in the brownies ...
Anyway, having had experience with pot and with alcohol, both of which will raise your heart rate when they peak, I told her to go lie down and she says 'I want to go to the hospital!'. I tell her that during my drinking period I would have these same symptoms, high heart rate, and it goes away after a few minutes.
I tried to hug her and she pulled away so I backed off.
So here I am, trying to understand WHY after a year or so of having these 'brownies' in the freezer and neither one of us cared to eat them that whole time, she decides she is going to eat one TODAY?
Tomorrow she will be racked with guilt. Oh joy. I will be ignoring the whole thing because it's nothing that needs to be discussed anyway. But she scared the Sh*t out of me when I first had no idea why her heart was beating so fast. And even afterwards when it calmed down. I wonder if she even could tell that I was caring for her. It did't seem like it.
Frank, she was frightened and wanted to get some medical attention, and you didn't help her. Yeah, you're right that pot can make your heart race - and she shouldn't be indulging in that for that reason - but here you are focusing on "WHY after a year or so of having these 'brownies' in the freezer and neither one of us cared to eat them that whole time, she decides she is going to eat one TODAY?" which is insignificant! What is significant is that you let her down when you minimized her request to be taken to the hospital. She pointed that out to you when she spoke of the times you were ill. She pointed out that she was expecting you to take care of her... meaning, she didn't feel you did. You felt you did, she didn't. Hugs wasn't what she needed from you at that moment.
If a message is not understood by the recipient, the message doesn't get across. You have to do it in the recipient's language. And here, the recipient was telling exactly how.
You wonder if she can tell you were caring for her? Wonder no more, to her, it doesn't look like it. That's probably why it doesn't seem like it.
I think an apology is in order, big time.
I remember one time my mom needed some medicine, and my dad refused to get it. I asked him why, and he said, "That $55 can grow to be a million". My jaw dropped.
Quote: NYSurvivor: What is significant is that you let her down when you minimized her request to be taken to the hospital. She pointed that out to you when she spoke of the times you were ill. She pointed out that she was expecting you to take care of her... meaning, she didn't feel you did. You felt you did, she didn't. Hugs wasn't what she needed from you at that moment.
Since I was the one who was there I looked at the situation and could clearly see it was NOT a medical emergency. She was high and being irrational. Taking her to an emergency room would have created complex LEGAL problems for no good reason. It would have required explaining to the kids why we were gong to the hospital at 9 at nite, and I'm sure scaring them. If I had felt it was an EMERGENCY you bet your A$$ I would have done something immediatly. She was HIGH. She needed to be calmed down and comforted because of her mental fears. In 10 minutes she was fine. I got her to lie down and left her while I put the kids to bed. She was grateful because she didn't want the kids to see her like this.
Quote: I remember one time my mom needed some medicine, and my dad refused to get it. I asked him why, and he said, "That $55 can grow to be a million". My jaw dropped.
I think you're projecting your own experience onto mine and judging me as if I was your dad doing this. I'm not.
Quote: Since I was the one who was there I looked at the situation and could clearly see it was NOT a medical emergency. She was high and being irrational. Taking her to an emergency room would have created complex LEGAL problems for no good reason.
You are very lucky then...because I'll share a story similar to what happened to your W...the night that my exH and I got married we were out partying (yes partying)...before we went out I had dinner with my boss and his wife. I got very, very and I mean very sick. Heart palpitations, sweating, dizziness...my exH thought perhaps that we had partied too much and was ALSO trying to get me to calm down...we DID end up in the emergency room that night...and believe it or not, I almost died...it was not related to the partying, although his fear was the legal issue too thus why he DIDN'T want to take me either..I had discovered that I actually had a bacterial reaction to shellfish.
If she scared the !@#$ out of you as you said...then what constitutes a medical emergency...to you? As you said your friend weighs 350lbs and this was not normal for her...it was a chance to be there for her, a chance to be a knight in shining armour...well thankfully she is okay.
She was fine after about an hour. Finally went to sleep at about 11 after thanking me several times for being there for her. She was still a bit high.
This morning she came into my room while I was still lying in bed and put her hand on my shoulder, thanking me for being there for her and apologizing for being stupid and eating the brownie.
I held her hand (and she let me!) and told her that I was glad to be there because she had been there for me for so many times over so many years. She went on to say that with all the things she's been dealing with lately that she just felt like she needed an 'escape' from her life and thought "well, we have these brownies so I might as well try one and just get happy and tired and nothing else". She had no idea it would affect her so dramatically.
She was so sorry I had to deal with her. I told her AGAIN that it was ok, she had been there for me while I was drinking and I was glad to be able to do the same for her.
She is definatly feeling a lot of guilt.
She went down to the kitchen to make some breakfast and I went down to get coffee and stuff. She said "I appreciate you not saying anything to humiliate me in front of the kids" and I replied "Of course not, I could never do that to you". She said "Yeah, last nite you said you wouldn't because you know how it feels. Did I do that to you when you were drinking?"
I said "No, what happened last nite was you said that I would probably never let you forget this, and that I must be happy now that I have something on you. And that was when I said to you that I would never do that because I know how it feels".
I told her that she would give me crap every morning after I drank and I always was sorry and feeling guilty, so I know how she would feel if I did that to her.
She went back to making her breakfast and I stood there for a few minutes and then it all started to hit me. She was in MY old role and I was in HER old role. I just felt this overwhelming pain in my heart and started to tear up. She saw me and reached to wipe a tear away.
So I told her that I was so scared last nite that she wouldn't be ok, even though my logical mind knew she would be. I said I never knew how she felt when SHE was watching ME hurt myself by drinking and how helpless you feel when someone you love is like that and you can't do anything for them except wait.
She started to apologize again for putting me through that and I pointed out that I used to apologize like that every day, and I felt bad just like she was feeling now.
But, until today I never really knew how SHE felt, how much it hurt her. It was the same as when she had her huge outburst of anger and hurt in our Counseling session last week, and how I NEVER knew until THEN how much I had hurt her. If I had only known it would have made me realize that it wasn't just ME I was hurting.
I told her that I couldn't see any way she could ever forgive me, and that if I had only known, things may have turned out differently. But by walking in her shoes today, and her in mine, I really understand how she felt all these years and maybe she understands how I felt every day.
She said that we can't really know if things would have turned out any differently. I said "Maybe not, but I am terrified about what would happen if I ever let myself get like that again. I will never let that happen to me ever again". I think she may have finally believed me, that I am permanently changed. Or at least she believes me a little bit more.
She didn't cry during all this although she looked like she might a couple times. I was bawling like a baby, I felt so much guilt and grief - for her suffering. And I apologized many times for it.
We didn't hug or touch each other in any way, which in a way is good because previously we had only hugged because she perceived me as 'needy'. I wasn't needy today, I was remorseful. We haven't hugged in about 2-3 weeks.
She seemed emotionally numb, and I didn't push it any more. She left to go back to her cooking and I went to my room to sob some more and process my feelings of the incredible hurt I now knew she had gotten from me over the years.
Sometimes we get a chance to walk in someone elses shoes, to see what they see. This was a gift for me, and I think for her because we both saw how the other experienced this part of our life.
She left about 1/2 hour later to go to work and she didn't make eye contact with me and kind of quietly said 'goodbye'.
My current impression is that she is going through SOMETHING that is making her scared and worried. Probably the issues surrounding her financial situation, where she has to come up with a way to pay 1/2 of our expenses to live here, and that she is not going to be able to live in the relative comfort she has been used to when she leaves to get her own place. Being 'independent' comes with a lot of pressures.
Because of her emotional numbness my pessimist side says that she's going to pull away from me again, not that she has gotten any closer. And her comment of "we don't know if things would have been any different" when I said I would have done something if I had known I was hurting her so, much made me feel like she has totally given up, has no faith and has moved on.
I think though that she is really just wrapped up in her own crap today and is focused on those feelings.
Since I was the one who was there I looked at the situation and could clearly see it was NOT a medical emergency.
You're a doctor? Then OK.
She was high and being irrational.
You're a psychiatrist too? Then OK.
I'd think having your heart racing at 120 and feeling dizzy is quite a rational basis for seeking medical attention.
Taking her to an emergency room would have created complex LEGAL problems for no good reason. It would have required explaining to the kids why we were gong to the hospital at 9 at nite, and I'm sure scaring them.
And a lawyer? Wow.
Having been a student of law myself, I think there was good legal reason to do as she asked, actually. Willful neglect comes to mind. Certainly her reasons were better than yours.
C'mon! Her heart's racing due to her ingestion of drugs. It's a frickin' medical condition. She ASKED to be taken to the hospital. What you gave aren't reasons you *don't* take someone to a hospital.
So, let me ask you... what time of the night is it OK to take someone to the hospital? And what does the legal status have to be?
If I had felt it was an EMERGENCY you bet your A$$ I would have done something immediately.
Ditto Sassy.
I think you're projecting your own experience onto mine and judging me as if I was your dad doing this. I'm not.
No, I posted that to show that I'm sensitive to what you did, which was minimize the reasonable concerns of their loved one's condition. Or didn't do, actually. I wasn't saying that experience between my parents was the same as yours or for the same reasons, though I see all the reasons in both events as being rationalizations.
"Judging" you? No. I think you're the one projecting here, Frank. No where in my post did I judge you. I didn't call you a bad boy. I pointed out how your wife views this episode and that it's important to honor that. If I'm "judging" anything at all, it's your call I'm judging, not you.
In fact, that comment alone suggests to me that you do feel, somewhere deep inside you, that you suspect you should've responded differently to her and feel a leeelte twinge about that... c'mon... don't hide behind pride, you're among friends here, Frank.
Whatever. Bottom line doesn't change for you, despite the rationalizations. W sees it as neglect. She told you so. I'm telling you so as an observer, and because I'm telling you the same thing basically that your wife told you, you're reacting in the same vein toward my response. Really think about this. If you neglected this, in her view, which she thought kinda important enough since it concerned her physical well-being, how do you think she'd consider you'd be in other less important aspects of your life together?
Quote: If she scared the !@#$ out of you as you said...then what constitutes a medical emergency...to you? As you said your friend weighs 350lbs and this was not normal for her...it was a chance to be there for her, a chance to be a knight in shining armour...well thankfully she is okay.
Ok, for those who are more interested in judging my reaction to the situation, here is my 'incident report':
She wasn't sweating, she wasn't falling down, she was walking around the house on her own, she didn't throw up, She said she felt 'a little dizzy', she drank a large glass of water I gave her with no problems, she didn't have a fever, she could see and describe any object I showed her, She wasn't having heart palpitations, her heart rate was just up. I GUESSED about 100-120 which is not anywhere near 'fatal'. After sitting 15 minutes with her she was back to normal heart rate and calmed down but was clearly high. I have felt the same way MANY times after drinking a lot of vodka in a short period of time. I used to wake up all the time in the middle of the night feeling just like that from drinking too much. I would get up and pace around until I calmed down.
It scared the crap out of me because I had not seen her drink or get high in 15 years. And she was being very dramatic and wouldn't sit down. I didn't take her to an emergency room because there was NO EMERGENCY and if I had taken her to placate her it, would have been simply a legal problem that wasn't necessary and it would have scared the kids. She was over reacting BECAUSE she was high. If I (who was not drunk or high but was clear headed and grounded) thought it WAS an emergency I would have taken her and not cared about the kids feelings or any legal issues! Do you think I'm here DB'ing because I want her to die???
I believe I said I had gotten a DUI a few years back. In California you HAVE to go to drug education classes. Since I am the type of person who absorbs knowledge I believe I know a LOT about the effects of various drugs on people. Especially alcohol and marijuana. Probably much more than I really wanted to know.
And while she was sitting I got on line (easy to do, there are 7 computers in our house in various rooms on a network and they are always on line) and looked up the negative side effects of THC to refresh my memory which are:
"Increased heart rate, depersonalization, disorientation and acute panic reactions or severe paranoia."
Sure sounded like her, and it matched my own experiences with these drugs. None of the symptoms she showed we excessive and I monitored her VERY closely to get a handle on things until I felt that she was going to be OK.
These posts of 'you should have done this!!!' 'And 'she could have died!!!' are not helpful, nor are they ACCURATE. They are judgemental, after the fact, opinions from people who simply were not there and did not experience the situation.
How do you think attacking my choices is helping?
I was SCARED because I had not seen HER this way in years. I was SCARED because for her to do something like this is very very UNLIKE her? I wasn't scared while I was IN the situation, I was scared after I knew she was going to be alright. I was SCARED because when she first told me,] she was panicing and her heart was beating fast, I did NOT KNOW she was on drugs at the time till she finaly told me and I knew what was going on.
The whole 'emergency' lasted 15 minutes. I checked on her every 1/2 hour or so in case she THREW UP so I could take care of her.
And as far as SHE was concerned this morning I WAS her knight in shining armor because I WAS calm and did NOT overreact. She was GLAD I called it right and she didn't have to be humiliated in front of the kids by going to the hospital and scaring them.
I can't believe I have to defend myself for being calm, examining the situation and not overreacting.
I didn't realize I was going to be judged
Please stop the attacks.
They're not attacks, Frank. Relax, bro. They're meaningful differences of opinion. You seem to be OK with posts when they're seemingly in alignment with you, be OK with them when they're not.
Speaking for myself, I won't be browbeaten to feel guilty or stupid, OK?
How do you think attacking my choices is helping? Did I have to shoot a video and post it so some of you could see that she was ok, just paranoid and messed up?
They're not "attacks". You're using theatrical language there. Pointing out where there seems to be a bad call may help you understand that viewpoint. It's defending yourself by offering excuses and not being open to being told these things is what doesn't help.
I didn't realize I was going to be judged or I would have given a complete report with the details as I am doing now.
OK, read it, I still maintain the same opinion.
If I (who was not drunk or high but was clear headed and grounded) thought it WAS an emergency I would have taken her and not cared about the kids feelings or any legal issues! Do you think I'm here DB'ing because I want her to die???
Beats me, hopefully not. What if her heart racing then triggered something else, let's say she may have a preexisting condition you're both not aware of, some heart disease for example, and she went into some kind of cardiac arrest... or she may have then have done something that would've increased the risk of overloading her cardiovascular system... who knows? Would the results of that have frightened the kids less?
I'm not going to go into circles with you about this, I've posted a couple of questions you didn't answer. Experience has shown me that when people dodge logical questions that arise from their responses to continue instead to throw more stuff out, then it's pointless to continue.
I GUESSED about 100-120 which is not anywhere near 'fatal'.
Even Doctors use instruments to determine heart rates rather than guessing. And what about her blood pressure? That goes up too, you know.
The whole 'emergency' lasted 15 minutes.
What does time have to do with it? People can drop dead on the spot. The effects of pot can last several hours in the system. A user's risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after ingestion.
And as far as SHE was concerned this morning I WAS her knight in shining armor because I WAS calm and did NOT overreact. She was GLAD I called it right and she didn't have to be humiliated in front of the kids by going to the hospital and scaring them.
I can tell from your other posts that being "right" is important to you.
I'm going out on a limb here, OK? Just a hunch, yet, I'd say, that's what you think is happening.
Let's all just be happy she's OK. I'm moving on. Stay away from those brownies!!
Quote: I can tell from your other posts that being "right" is important to you.
I'm going out on a limb here, OK? Just a hunch, yet, I'd say, that's what you think is happening.
Let's all just be happy she's OK. I'm moving on. Stay away from those brownies!!
Yes, you're right. I'm such a fool. In ALL my posts over the past 3 months I have been only focused on being 'right'. In fact being 'right' is all that matters to me. I guess I learned nothing useful by this experience except that I should not trust my instincts or experiences when in any situation involving drugs. Luckily I only live 4 blocks from the hospital so there's a good chance nobody will die because of my stupidity.
By the way, does anyone have any comments to my W's reactions and feelings this morning? I kinda would like some feedback on that.
