Quote: Are we enabling our WAS because of our strength of commitment and high pain tolerance?
I know personally I am different person because of this, and I have found a strength I never thought I had. I can see it in Frank, TMU, and many of the others who have posted and we should be proud of that!
I don't think we are 'enabling' them. They would do what they are going to do anyway. We are just buffering the effects on us and our kids and them of course. We COULD go batsh*t like most people and start mean awful divorce proceedings but all that would accomplish is a lot of hate, hurt and animosity. They would still do what they are going to do - just be bitter with us too.
By doing what we are, we are able to influence the outcome and stop a lot of unneccesary hurt from happening.
Today after the Kayak trip of yesterday WAW was distant in the morning. But in the late afternoon / evening she was warming up to me and just seemed happy I was around. Nothing special, a few touches from her here and there. Very different than other actions lately.
At one point she came up behind me and put her hand on my shoulder, then leaned over my shoulder to read a grocery list I was writing. Way different than anything lately.
I made a fire, got soe smiles then left the room to 'detach'. When I came in from my office I had done a bunch of things that were because of a mistake I had made earlier. She was lying on the couch and asked mne whats wrong. I said "I made a mistake (this is rare inthe work I do that I make mistakes)". She smiles, to say that "it's ok, even YOU make mistakes (a running joke with us) Then she reaches out and holds my hand. Keeps talking about me 'fixing it like I always do'. She talked about something else but I don't remember because I was enjoyning her holding my hand!
Anyway, I let go and left the room politely.
A little later we wer talking about D15 and her friends at school whose parents are getting divorces. She is the only one whose parents don't fight. So W says "I'll be she will complain tomorrow to her friends that her parents get along!" I was thinking that her making that point was her recognizing that we DO get along better than we have in a long time. Pretty interesting.
Not sure what is going on with OM, but it seems to be less of an infatuation.
Then she reaches out and holds my hand. Keeps talking about me 'fixing it like I always do'. She talked about something else but I don't remember because I was enjoyning her holding my hand!
WOW...that is huge baby step Frank..."fix it like you always do" I would love it if she was thinking that had double meaning which it sounds like it does...good for you...maybe I'm being too optimistic but sounds like a nice baby step.
God, I love good news around here! Frank, I love that you are able to take that hand holding and kindness from your W for what it was, in the moment and then dispense of it. I don't mean that you didn't appreciate or remember it, just that you seem not to have attached any particular meaning to it, and just let it happen. Like Tim with his W wearing her wedding rings the last couple days, it could be taken as this monumental sign, worthy of monumental consideration, but to do that would be to fall back into the OLD way of mind reading and expecting. Great news from you, and I really hope we hear more.
D15 gets up all emotional, doesn't want to goto school to 'face the world'. W comes and gets me to 'talk to her'. So I do.
Her issue: She spent the past 2 days with her boyfriends family going to Disneyland and had a lot of fun. She says "How come other peoples families get along so well and stay together? Why do I have to be in the one that gets divorced"
I say "We are getting along pretty well, it could be a lot worse"
D15: Yeah, but we're getting divorced. Why does it have to be us?
Me: Well I hate it too, but this is the way our life has turned out and you have to do the best you can with what you have.
D15: Well, I just can't go to school to face everybody. A lot of people don't believe we are getting divorced because we all still live together and you and Mom don't fight.
Me: Well, we could fight but it wouldn't make it any better.
While we're talking, W comes upstairs and into the room to get into the conversation. I politely ask her to leave us alone for a few more minutes and she leaves, although a bit ticked off. I'm in the middle of basically trying to let D15 understand that I empathize with her, I don't like this either, but this is the way it is.
W would just start telling her she has 'no choice' and better get going to school. I don't need that because D15 needs to know I understand her feelings, but won't tolerate this behavior and disrepect towards her mother, who OBVIOUSLY can't handle this herself or she wouldn't have come and gotten ME.
So, after and ultimatum from me D15 gets ready for school, I take her. When I get back W is upset because I didn't "let her support me so we could show a united front". I explain to her that right then we were into a topic and I was handling it well. And, I said what this family really needs is some male testosterone injected into it so that there is a feeling of security and I need to do that - alone.
She's like "Well that's what I am trying to do also! We need to show a united front"
I say "Yes, I see you are and I agree we need to always be united. Right now a strong father figure who wasn't going to contradict mom was needed and that's what I did. I'm sorry if you felt slighted because that wasn't my intention".
I'm starting to get a little annoyed and I'm sure it's showing. I say "It's not our kids fault that they have to go through this divorce because their PARENTS can't get their act together. She sees her friends having a great time and their family getting along and wonders why WE can't be a family like that"
W says: "Well she should have been with us yesterday, we got along so well, it was great!"
I want to say "are you stupid or something? Just getting along 'great' isn't what it's all about. It's about YOU deciding that since you were incapable of being there for the family and I when we REALLY needed you that when you found some OM to chase, you could give a crap about the family and us and you have this attitude of 'Why, if we just get along it will be just dandy! And I can still have my way!"
She gave up on ME when I needed her. She gave up on FAMILY. And now she expects everyone to just go along and be happy that we all 'get along so well'.
Fortunatly, I am not stupid enough to say this. I just stand there and think. I didn't know if I SHOULD tell her she is the one f*ing it up for everyone or not. Db'ing says no, so I said nothing. But I wanted to.
A few minutes later she says "She'll probably grow up and put a sign on her that says ' Mom you ruined my life'. Then she added "You f'ing HO!".
Regardless, the cold "Well we should make sure she doesn't try to get between us" crap with no discussion about how she might actually be FEELING sucks. And the 'Well we get along great!" crap helps her justify Divorce since it will be a 'grand old time for all of us because we are so cool!"
I know, it's just her selfishness showing. One day good, one day bad. Today will be business as usual. I need to remember that OM is still her main emotional focus, and getting what she wants is also. Baby steps get clouded by the crap steps.
I just want to slap her and say "Do you not see what both our actions have done to this famliy? I fyou REALLY hated me and REALLY hated this you'd be out of here, but you're not. Part of it is because, quite frankly, you can't support yourself. But if you really wanted out, you'd find a way."
Anyway, I'm venting. I have counselor meeting today so I'll have plenty of time to complain there.
Sorry to read your sitch Frank, we all can empathize. The baby steps build us up so much and the backwards slide kills all of that in a single instant. Under the circumstances, you are handling yourself and the situation extremely well. Reading your posting has talked me down off the ledge of bringing up OM talk to W because of a slight backslide in my situation. I was contemplating a good old fashioned R and OM talk when I got home (even thought about writing the letter), but seeing you recount your situation has made me realize that I need to be strong. For that, I thank you.
Hopefully thinks will look up for you today.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: She gave up on ME when I needed her. She gave up on FAMILY. And now she expects everyone to just go along and be happy that we all 'get along so well'.
Yes, yes, yes. Amen brother Frank! I see my wife taking that approach too and it is one of the hardest things to bear without laying it all out to her. It's also one of the hardest things about DBing. It's almost like we have to take blame not only for what is clearly our part of the bad marriage, but theirs too by way of our silence. It really sucks. As usual, I'll be thinking of you and hope you soon have 2 good days for every bad one...
The baby steps build us up so much and the backwards slide kills all of that in a single instant
Yes, you're right that one backslide can wipe out a bunch of positives. I look at backslides as bringing one back to square one and resetting the clock to zero.
Getting built up by seeing baby steps suggests that the thing to do instead is to observe baby steps without attaching hopes or expectations to them, as well as learning how to control yourself so as not to get into backslides that discourage them.
Its a hard lesson to learn, but a valuable one nonetheless.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
