Holy cow, you two are obviously two very strong-willed people who have a personality conflict going on. You're both right, okay? You're just not expressing yourselves in a way that the other one can hear (or wants to hear).
Frank, you know I've been on your side since the beginning of this, so I hope that you will take this in the spirit that it's intended. I've read over NYS's last thread, and I can see why he's focusing on what may be your W's conflict avoidance. Actually, his discussion of it on his thread has brought me some clarity about my own situation. Anyone (myself included) who enables and/or denies addiction is avoiding conflict: conflict with others and inner conflict. I did this and now I recognize it. I denied that it was a problem b/c I didn't want to face it. I didn't want to bring up what I knew would be a huge issue with major fallout. I have never thought of myself as a conflict avoider, but when it comes to major emotional issues, I've discovered that I am. Yes, I'll send back that overcooked steak; I'll call Nestle to complain that my popsicles were melted; I'll tell H to get off his butt and help me with the raking. But I never told him to stop drinking until he got arrested. I never told him how much it hurt me.
I think what NYS is saying is that your wife, as a conflict avoider, is still avoiding conflict with you. She may well *feel* trapped, even if she isn't. She's trapped within her own emotions (guilt, sadness, love), even though you've opened the cage door.
I don't know if this is making sense to you; it makes sense to me! Please ask if you want clarification.
Nic
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
Quote: I denied that it was a problem b/c I didn't want to face it. I didn't want to bring up what I knew would be a huge issue with major fallout. I have never thought of myself as a conflict avoider, but when it comes to major emotional issues, I've discovered that I am. Yes, I'll send back that overcooked steak; I'll call Nestle to complain that my popsicles were melted; I'll tell H to get off his butt and help me with the raking. But I never told him to stop drinking until he got arrested. I never told him how much it hurt me.
I think what NYS is saying is that your wife, as a conflict avoider, is still avoiding conflict with you. She may well *feel* trapped, even if she isn't. She's trapped within her own emotions (guilt, sadness, love), even though you've opened the cage door.
I don't know if this is making sense to you; it makes sense to me! Please ask if you want clarification.
Yes, every one to their rooms!!!...Nicole has translated from Venus to Mars language (for those of you who have read the book!)...Jumping up and down here...Nicole you hit it on the nail in Venetian...couldn't have translated it better.
FWIW, I am THE Mistress of Conflict Avoidance, probably the main reason why I became a WAW, didn't see it then but the more I learn about myself now, I can see it plain and clear...but I am trying...and really it is hard...it takes a partner who you can trust and who will work through it with you, with love, patience, respect for your feelings. Of course the key is to not lose the respect and still acknowledge the feelings of the person you are CAing with...it definitely takes work on both partners. I think the more and more I even explore this and learn about it, most of the women (except GF Tina) that I have known through my life have been CAs. It's probably something to do with girls playing with Barbies and boys playing with Army men and stuff for all I know.
Okay, back to work for me...and Nicole how in hell did you ask him to rake the leaves...sheesh, Spanky wouldn't even take out the trash unless I already was out there doing it.
Quote: Nothing happened. It's what it's always been. You're not "hearing" her. Remember, she "avoids" rather than "asserts"... which means she puts on a mask, has not presented you with the true reality; has told you what she thinks you want to hear in order to 'keep the peace'. But she can't take it any more, she feels trapped, and that's what I think you're seeing.
Ok, if she feels 'trapped' then why would she tell me over and over that she is SURE she doesn't want to be married, that she can't believe she stayed in the marriage while she was so hurt? How is that 'what I want to hear'? How does that 'keep the peace'? I'm not understanding you.
Quote: I think what NYS is saying is that your wife, as a conflict avoider, is still avoiding conflict with you. She may well *feel* trapped, even if she isn't. She's trapped within her own emotions (guilt, sadness, love), even though you've opened the cage door.
I don't know if this is making sense to you; it makes sense to me! Please ask if you want clarification.
OK, I understand Amy. She may feel trapped because she can't be with OM and have her 'teaching partner' because she has to stay with the family till the girls grow up.
Well, OM called her today while she was at home. She talked to him for an hour. When I walked into the house she went outside. A few minutes later she came back in and I heard her saying goodbye. She said 'Have a good rest of your day!'. She knew I was in the house though.
She seemed happier but not ecstatic like she used to be when they talked after days of not talking. But happy. Sigh.
Afterwards she talked to me about a couple things.
1) Thanked me for being supportive last nite when she was down.
2) Talked about us taking the kids to Disney World over spring break since we didn't get to go thanksgiving due to divorce starting.
3) Talked about going to a spa for a weekend with her girlfriend in feb or march.
4) Talked about 'getting started' with her new massage business and how broke she is.
Overall it was blah. She was neutral but not distant. Made eye contact with me and really was 'present' in the conversation.
She had to go to see counselor for individual session. Said she was ready to go 'and let her make me cry'.
While she was gone, I broke my snoop rule and looked at her email. It was disappointing. I'll post some excerpts from the last 2-3 weeks.
Jan 3 ---
She writes her girlfriend --------------------------- that she hasn't heard from OM in 2-3 days and it's NEW YEARS. To quote her 'no e-mails or phone calls, what a jerk. Then I turned on my computer and I got an IM from him but I didn't respond because I was so hurt mostly because I felt if he had a clue about love he would not treat me like this. And that given that he is not dead he really doesn't care for me as much as I care for him. Which puts me in a very distasteful position.
She continues: Next time I check my e-mail he has sent me a letter with all his troubles. He can't live with (ex GF) anymore because one of them will kill the other so he may move out and live with his mom. He says he has been so busy with his business and (gf) and stuff that is why he has not been able to contact me but he thinks of me all the time.
I do not believe him, He is hiding something and talks vaguely about details. Why should he hide something from me?
Then he adds that I am always probing with questions about what he is like and he has only one question for me: "What does W want"? So I responded to his e-mail with heart felt answers and told him that I don't think he cares for me as much as I care for him as well as who I am and where I'm going in life.
He has yet to respond. Oh he did send me some love notes he found on the internet, how impersonal. Then I chatted with him on IM for 15 minutes not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling but not a 'heay leave me alone feeling' either.
This sucks, what have I gotten myself into?
W
--------- Tuesday Jan 10th (the day we talk about finances) she writes to OM ------------ OM, (not 'my love' or anything, just his name)
I have been busy facing the music of my life, I hope your life is bringing you some happiness in the current of change.
I have been faced with the harsh reality of my financial situation. (she describes issues related to our talk about her paying half of expenses) With all this going on I do not see how I will be able to take time off to see you in Feb, you know how it is when you start a new job they don't want you to take time off. Plus it feels like I need need that time to pull my strength out and become the woman I am...
I hope you know how much I wanted to see you and how hard this is for me to say don't come. My heart is a mess and I need time to repair it. WHat we have I really don't know how to explain, or what to do with it. I hope you will still want me to talk about your life and let me be a friend to you. And perhaps to get to know you better.
I'll always love you... (W)
------ Wed Jan 11 -- Well hello there. I was noticig the weatheris getting better where you live. I was wondering how you are doing. I am alright, busy, but that's a good thing. I think about you all the time. Take care of your wonderful self. Love, W -----Thursday Jan 12 he replies to her letters. Talks about how busy he has been, computer problems, etc.
Says 'Boy i sure do miss you. Talking to you today reminded me of how much'
He Writes 5 paragraphs describing the past few days and all the events he had to deal with. The says 'I know you don't believe me but I think about you very very very very often. LIke I told you today I was going to write you no matter what but you were on line! Cause in the back of my mind I was thinking that while I was getting all this together, and one part of my life was getting straightened out, another more dear part was wilting.
You have been the only thing keeping me from throwing in the towel. I want to make money so I can leave this rat hole....
- He goes on to tell her all the reasons he hasn't been able to write. How he thinks of her 7,628,378 times a day.
He says 'I do love you and thank you for your patience. It will pay off in the end. (or the beginning). All my love... OM
---- friday jan 13th She writes him ---- doesn't start with any greeting, like 'Dear OM' or something, just writes....
Oh how glad I am that you kept your promise and wrote to me, thank you. It sounds like you're needed by everyone in your life. Your cup must be empty. I'll send you love to help fill it. (she says other supportive things you would tell a friend who is stressed out). I am a huge believer in living for today because tomorrow never comes. I hope you live for today and make it all that it can be and be happy with what it is. Right now I am being happy in my misery knowing that I am growing and changing as I continue on my lifes path. Grateful for the pain knowing I will appreciate the sweetness of life all the more when it comes. I love you , W.
--- Friday jan 13th he writes her a short note, says 'love you' at the end. She replies thanking him and saying he brightened her day.
--- Saturday jan 14th she writes him
Hello there,
I had an 'aha' moment yesterday (she goes on to talk about how SHE should be teaching massage and why isn't she doing it?) Then she tells him about the brownies and how she got messed up. no details. Ends with hope you had a good day, I was thinking of you. Love, W
-- jan 14th same day she writes him I have a question, surprised? Of course you are. Are you attracted to me? I know you love me, Just wondering about this. Love
jan 17th, (Last nite) she talks to me about her life and how she is down and the 'empty' spot that was filled by the 'relationship' but that's over now.
--- today, Wed Jan 18th He sends her e-mail.
Yes I am attracted to you. I was not at first , In fact I really didn't register you... Until I saw the pain in your eyes and it affected me...well you know how it affected me.
He talks about how hard it has been setting up his business, how the 'payoff' will give him lot's of freedom to do what he wants to do. Then he says "I'm not trying to give any false hopes, but when I get out there (if you still wish me to be there), I will have enough knowledge and resources so we can do the lomi massage business! I am looking forward to that. I desparately need a lifestyle change. However one thing at a time...
I am getting more free time again so I can write... more to come later
I am in love with you, OM
-- she got this in the morning. Around noon he called her. they talked for an hour and she cheered up.
Impressions? Looks like it's still active. She's still 'in love' and he's saying he wants to be with her. So he really is a massage teacher. Her kind of guy. If he is successful then he can afford to do what he has been saying he will do. move out here and start a business with her.
It was too good to be true. Sigh.
She just got back from counselor, she's seems to be in a good mood.
Quote: Nicole how in hell did you ask him to rake the leaves...sheesh, Spanky wouldn't even take out the trash unless I already was out there doing it.
I didn't say he DID it!
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
Ya think you left out the IMPORTANT part there??? Sheesh!!! Tease!!! I thought you had solved the million dollar question there...oh well...back to the books...
