Run with me through rows of Speeding Cars

[believing_isaiah43]

Thank you so much RB and Muddle, and I wish I had read your stuff before he got home, but I ran out of time to get back online. Muddle is actually right, it wasn't what I thought at all (long fat story) but after finding that myspace acct, I searched for some other stuff and found him registered at youtube searching for/watching some videos that were NOT at all outright p*rn or anything, just weird/odd. I didn't hardly care about the CONTENT, just that it was so SECRETIVE, you know?

Felt just like a throwback to the computer weirdness that was going on during the A (secretive/undercover stuff -ish) So THAT was the big elephant in the room last night that I pointed out. Not as lovingly as I would've liked - b/c I wanted to sit on my emotions for a day, but just couldn't in this instance.

He is horrified/ashamed/embarassed etc that I found that out, never told anyone in his whole life. I am just kind of astounded that he's so upset about this thing - the content is NO big deal. But he said he would rather die than for anyone else to know. If I bring it up in MC he will walk out, never go again. If I tell the pastor, he'll quit going to church. If people know, he'll move away. He doesn't want to speak of it ever again, and will quit right this minute just so he never has to talk about it.

Logic was futile in this part of the discussion, needless to say.

I realize this is raw reaction from someone just confronted with an issue he is embarassed about.

But also, b/c he never feels safe with me, he is really afraid that I'll throw it in his face (as with details from the A) when I'm upset, or if I try to D him at some point I'll bring it up. And that this 'thing' is not about me, but I keep making it all about me and how it affects me. All roads point to how things affect/hurt me, not him. And his point there is valid, I am sad to admit. Again, my relationship toolbox is sorely lacking here.

We were up quite late talking, yelling, talking again. Finally to bed after 3am. Had nightmares and an upset stomach when I woke up today. Have no idea where to go next. I did wake him up briefly to tell him that I love him and, apparently, there's nothing he's going to be able to do to make me stop. (dammit)

I'm curious that if this whole scenario was reversed, what his reaction(s) would be about it (and if he had a S who would NOT talk about it; he will pin me to the wall until I talk about something that bothers me and this is a HUGE double standard). I feel like someone shot me and I'm bleeding out.

I wanted to pop in and thank you both enormously for posting in my time of need. RB, I did pray, quite a lot before and after he was home.

What happens next is still up in the air. Waiting for the dust to settle here (again) and see what we're looking at.

[MuddleThrough]

Glad to hear it wasn't as bad as what you first expected. In reading your post, what stood out the most was his shame. You didn't really get into the content, and I don't think you need to, but it seems to me that he doesn't feel safe enough with you to share this part of himself that he's exploring. I wonder if this is truly because he is ashamed of it within himself or if it has everything to do with the relationship.

I wonder if the content of this is something that you can change your perspective on - going far out of your way to avoid being the parent catching the child doing something wrong. Maybe even let on that there's something about it that makes you appreciate him. That you admire him, even if this doesn't appeal to you. I think he's fishing for this sort of attention online and if you can give it to him, so much the better.

Just some thoughts. Hang in there - hope the dust settles soon.

[RBinBR]

He is horrified/ashamed/embarassed etc that I found that out, never told anyone in his whole life. I am just kind of astounded that he's so upset about this thing - the content is NO big deal. But he said he would rather die than for anyone else to know. If I bring it up in MC he will walk out, never go again. If I tell the pastor, he'll quit going to church. If people know, he'll move away. He doesn't want to speak of it ever again, and will quit right this minute just so he never has to talk about it.

So, your H has a secret obsession with something that is shameful or at least socially embarrassing. Of course, you should recognize that "quitting" doesn't address his root issues (whatever those are) ... and that his attempt to quit without help will inevitably fail if this is a true obsession/addiction., which I suspect it is.

The shame thing is HUGE in terms of understanding why the A happened, because this [whatever] makes him feel worthless and has robbed him of his self-respect. It is now THE CRITICAL ISSUE to address in counseling, and he needs to do it somehow.

I hope you didn't agree last night when he asked you to never discuss it with him again. The key thing now, though, is for him to feel safe with you, to know that you won't hurt him. I strongly suggest that you go way out of your way to do something special for him in the next day or so. Thing about his preferred love language and do something to feed that love in an extraordinary way.

BI, I think last night may have been a "tipping point" (if you don't mind a recent cliche) in your sitch. This is your big chance to repair your M.

[believing_isaiah43]

I have been in the bed today (a) avoiding the world and (b) because I go to work tonight in an hour. I cannot thank you five thousand times over for your input. Muddle, I did not/will not post the actual thing he's watching only b/c I promised him I would not mention it to anyone (which includes this BB, IMO) and I agree it doesn't really matter what it is, just that it is a cause of shame to him. I told him that everyone has their little black box of what they consider shameful/secret. And that one man's box is another man's put-it-in-the-front-yard-with-a-spotlight-and-sign up. That really struck me in this instance.

Gotta go to work. Will be checking in again asap. Many thanks.

[believing_isaiah43]

Well, I was put on call at work so I'm back online, after a Weepfest with H. I did all the weeping of course, the big snotface kind. ugh. We are in a bad place, and will be re-evaluating our M in October (2 months) to see what has happened and where we will go from here.

Here's why:
Let me tell you about H's FOO: he grew up with a father who defaulted to the mother in everything, wasn't much of a strong H in any way. His mom, probably out of lack of an R with her H, was all up in my H's life as a child ("ate him alive" H puts it) - she still does, wants to know about every little thing going on in his life. If you put your toe in, she will eat you all the way up your leg, KWIM? H became somewhat of a surrogate spouse, as far as communication goes. So H grows up feeling completely watched, poked, prodded and analyzed. Big hot button for him.

So here we are, married and having our recent issues (A) and he gives me access to his emails, shares more about his day, etc. but when I actually read his email, have an issue, check his iTunes to see what he's listening to, discover something like I did last night that embarasses/shames him, whatever... all this is like his mother eating him alive and guilting him into whatever behavior she was trying to get out of him.

And that's the paradox. As a wife post-A, I have access to his life. As the man that he is, giving that access and being analyzed by me is torturous to him and makes him withdraw further from me. Enter the crazy cycle: he feels poked/prodded and withdraws further, I want him closer and wonder why he's far off and pursue him. YUCK.

He has really pulled away the last few weeks (simultaneously when he started to watch these videos), somewhat in response to me all up in his sh!t (I think), and as a way to have something 'all his own' that no one knows about since the rest of his world is an open book (to me, and to a larger degree the community that knows of his A and job loss).

He is already getting further away from me and feeling less motivation to actually move toward me. Then I find this 'shameful' thing and he is really far off now. It's all come to a head.

The main point for H is that he has made efforts since January and changed how he relates to me, and has shared more of his thoughts and daily life in the last six months than he has in the last five years (true). That he has acted in a more loving way toward me since this has happened than when he actually 'loved' me. Possibly true, but I am so hung up on the words and feelings. Perhaps to my detriment. Every time he tells the kids ILY, it makes my heart ache.

I have not changed in the ways that matter most to him, especially the fact that I will not let go of my 'death grip' on him, and surrender control of our sitch, I keep trying to get a handle on everything, manipulate feelings/outcomes. And this has really put him at the end of the road - well 'almost' at the end of the road, he says.

I honestly don't know at this point if we can be turned around. He is so tired of putting up with me, and I can't blame him. I have no good idea of the boundaries between trying to be close to him, and totally avoiding him/leaving him alone. I have no sense of middle ground here. He tells me repeatedly that's not what he is talking about (the leaving him alone part), but that I don't even go a whole 24 hours without trying to control some portion of the situation, bringing up something about the A, etc that puts us backwards in the R. And that I won't just 'lose control' and be.

I cried a bloody Great Lake tonight, said that the last thing I wanted is to lose him or our M. I would try from now for two solid months to see if we could make any forward movement in this M and it was the most important thing in my life and I would try to figure out the balance, and I would need his help. I also told him I had no idea if we were too far gone for him to emotionally turn back toward me, and he agreed that he didn't know.

The fear and loneliness that statement triggered inside of me, I cannot even tell you.

I told him that I didn't force him into marrying me, and I could not force him to stay. If he indeed needed to leave to find happiness, that he was free to go. That I wanted him and loved him, but I didn't need him to be happy (don't know how much water that held, as I was crying in blind fear the whole time).

I validated and all that, but was so terrified and crying the entire time. I'm now upstairs in bed and left him on the sofa watching tv. I asked if he wanted to watch a movie but he didn't really want to do anything with me, so I left. So painful, I cannot even tell you. I'll be surprised if he doesn't sleep on the sofa tonight. He went to the sofa last night, and I managed to convince him to return to bed. It's lonely without him, and it's also lonely being near him. I don't know which is worse.

I am in desperate need of prayer here. I feel like I'm drowning, and am gasping for air. I really don't know how to give him 'space' when it's not avoiding him, or living 'separate' lives, which we did pre-A and it sucked. But he repeatedly says that he can't move toward me at all when I won't back off and let him. At this point, I do not trust that he'll move toward me anyway. And also how to 'let go', 'give up control' and feel safe. I feel very unsafe right now and so does he -with me.

I'm up here in my little bed with my little laptop. I feel rejected, unwanted and alone. I just wanted him to hold my hand or give me a hug, and he could barely look at me. I want to lay down and never wake up.

I imagine you'll see lots more venting/ranting (disguised as journaling?) from me here in the near future, as I am going to have to put all my crazy-a$$ emotions somewhere, and I can't bring up the A or anything in that realm with H for the next 2 months. I trust it will get easier to do, as it has improved somewhat over the last few months, just not enough, b/c when we argue OUT it comes. Or I'm having nightmares - it always goes somewhere. I dreamed H and I stayed married last night, but he was having sex outside the marriage and withheld it from me. Had a little posse of women he used to meet that need. What FUN these dreams are. Really helping my PMA. not.

If you guys would just pop in and virtually hold my hand, since H will not be, I would appreciate it. It's hard not to be the one to cut and run here, as I always do from anything painful. It's my first reaction. He has really shut down this time, and I'm scared out of my mind. It's like sitting next to a stranger in ways. A stranger who doesn't really want to engage in your conversation b/c he's tired of it.

[RBinBR]

{{{{{{BI}}}}}

BI, I hate to smack you when you're down, but you need to get a grip on yourself. All the crying, the desperation, the self-hatred that I see in you right now is NOT DB at all.

You need to pull back big time RIGHT NOW. Stop being so needy, and stop asking him to do stuff with you. Give him space and let him miss you a little. GAL and get out of the house.

C'mon, BI, you can do this!

[MuddleThrough]

Sorry for your pain. I wonder if you can give him the responsibility of figuring out and doing the trying to actually make this work. It seems that because you have been doing the trying, and it pushes him away, this not only puts the pressure on him but leaves you feeling VERY rejected. If you can agree that he will take the lead on this and do only what he is comfortable with so that you're not pushing him away than perhaps you can make some genuine progress.

In these situations where not on is the spouse a cheater but they are running away, there's not really an obvious path towards recovery. We, as LBSs, feel that all measures should be taken by the WAS to make us feel more secure and deal with the complex emotional issues we're faced with. The trouble is that unless the WAS has had a complete perspective shift, is entirely dedicated to the relationship at this point and is no longer looking to the LBS to prove to them they are worth the WAS staying, then is could very well create another situation for the WAS to run away from.

I agree with RB - take a step away and GAL. Take the pressure away, enjoy what you have when you have it. STOP doing all the work on the R and continue to work on yourself. I think a part of your difficulty with the boundary between being close and being distant has to do with WHAT you are looking for in you interaction with him. Think about what you are trying to gain out of every interaction and if you are going into it with the intention of making you feel better, don't say anything. For example, if you are looking for security in confirmation that the A is over, recognize that you are feeling insecure in yourself, not just the relationship, and see how you can change your thoughts to address this. Clearly this pressure on him is making him bolt, and that's the last thing you want. Same goes for checking his email. I wouldn't do it. I would decide to either trust him or not. I know it's a big risk, but if you keep looking for proof or confirmation where are YOU in the R? You end up playing the role of parent, or victim, neither the role of a good S.

Hang in there.

[RBinBR]

BI,

I think you've read this before, but I find that reading it periodically is a big benefit.

http://www.coping.org/control/detach.htm

[believing_isaiah43]

Dang, you guys ROCK. Thanks so much for your insight. Through much prayer and thinking, I had come to much the same conclusion as your suggestions to just let go and see if he'll miss me. I will write more later, I promise, but I was called into work at 1am this morning and have had only one hour sleep before church all day. I was on the verge of tears in church and then here comes this verse on the big screen (it was in a different context/teaching, but OMGosh, God just hit me in the head with it):

2 Corinthians 8:10 (Msg):
So here's what I think: The best thing you can do right now is to finish what you started last year and not let those good intentions grow stale. Your heart's been in the right place all along. You've got what it takes to finish it up, so go to it. Once the commitment is clear, you do what you can, not what you can't. The heart regulates the hands.

Ya'll. God is flat-out amazing when he gets your attention.