In some, if not most, troubled relationships, it's not that the other person can't or doesn't want to fulfill your needs, they just don't know how to identify and properly nurture those needs.
For example, you might like to be held, that is what fulfills your biggest need, being held. So if you show your W you love her by holding her, you are showing her "in your way" that you love her. Her idea, or way, of being shown your love might be talking (HER biggest need). So what have you done? You've shown her your love in a way that you would want love to be shown to you. You have disregarded her biggest need in the process, which is talking.
There are also different modes of communicating. Some people like to hear and be told things, some people like to be shown (visibly or through actions), while others prefer that they "feel" things.
So, between identifying the needs and communicating your love based on those needs, could it be possible that you and your wife need to learn more about each other?
If your W has doubts, chances are you aren't doing the best job of meeting her needs either. This is just a case of poor listening and poor communication. Don't tell me it's her fault, because it takes two, ALWAYS.
Greg
JJ
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I don’t know if I’m sensing this right, but there seems to be an “I need this R fixed and I need it fixed NOW” approach that’s not too helpful. It makes sense as far as avoiding pain, but not much sense if you want to keep this marriage. It seems you’re trying to skip the pain (as well as being reactive to your wife’s behavior) with your thoughts about dating (because your wife “has been and will probably do even more”). Blues, if your quick fix doesn’t work and you decide to move onto someone else, it seems you’re avoiding working through this. Escaping into another R could simply offer a repeat of the same painful issues you have now.
I encourage you to slow down, focus less on “reacting” to your wife, and thoughtfully consider the DB or DR (Step Number 5) concepts!! You have my support, Laurie C
JJ
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Okay Blues Man... Treesa's here now so watch out! I have FredGs 2x4 with me too.
Man you are not singing the blues... you are whining them! The others here have been good about pulling your story out of you but you are STILL singing the same tune poor me poor me I love hershe doesn't wnat me never will. Old news TBM... try a new tune.
Bottom line I think - the two of you just didn't WORK at the marriage. You were not babies when you were married... you were about the average age... mid to late 20s. And she's now of the mind as are many out there that if it doesn't work you throw it away and get another one. Consumable marriage. Don't fix the oven, buy a new one. Same deal. Make her see the benefits of fixing the oven Blues.
So... here's my two cents worth... (I even found some real American pennies here!) First of all - you have got to STOP OBSESSING!!!! You are sooooo focussed on her you are NOT living. Are you trying to get her to see your changes? It won't work. Fohgetaboutit! Make the changes because you want to make them for you not for her. Whether your R survives this or not, as someone else has already pointed out the changes you make for you will help you in the next go around or in the new and improved R. Otherwise you WILL screw it up again! Guaranteed!
Second - you are NEVER going to get the "old R" back. and Frankly seeing where you are now... do You WANT the old one?? You need a new R.
Thirdly - what kind of C are you seeing? Is it a pro marriage C or a "I'll help you facilitate your D" type C. Ask now before it's too late. And it's NOT too late.
Be mysterious - I always say - in a wacky kind of way... not in the cliched predictable - I'll get me a new LF kind of way... If you always wear blue shirts...go out and get an orange one. May I suggest you change gyms to NOT be at the same one as her. Do stuff that she doesn't THINK is the Bluesman... Be creative.
Get a hobby.... take the dog on new routes. When she calls and wants to see the dog tell her you'll be "busy" and ask her to suggest another time. Don't jump to her tune!
Re-arrange the furniture, get some flowers on the table for YOU NOT her! Get some new CDS, paint the kitchen do weird stuff around the house you've never done before and never never let her see you sweat.
Keep dark, no calls, NOTHING!!! And maybe she'll get curious and maybe seh won't You need in this dark period to have your own life.
The thing, I believe, that keeps WAS from coming back is pride. They have pride and do not want to ask to come back. Imagine what that costs to say... I really blew it, I hurt you I realized I made a mistake and can we start again. Most people can't do it and they will find a very subtle way to do this rather than the in-your-face approach. Right now your attitude won't allow her to take that approach. You have to step back. Watch and let her come to you and let her know you are open to trying something new!
And most important ... stop singing the blues and find some kiddie happy music man to get some PMA. Because right now... I don't see you have any. ( that was my major kick in your butt!)
Patience is the key. Time is your friend if you learn how to build that relationship too. This is critical.
Keep posting.
Tree who also had her butt kicked when she started this process.
JJ
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Hi. I read your comment that in the past your husband was away for four months and when you set limits, he came begging. People tend to behave in patterns. Ten weeks is too soon for you to do something bold. You need to wait longer. After you give him some time to sort through his feelings, you can be more demanding as you were in the past. But don't do it now if you think you might want to get back together. And if you didn't, why would you be here?
About feeling repulsed. It's a good way to protect yourself from feeling hurt and rejected by his actions. If you focus on feeling repulsed, then you don't have to focus on the pain of his being gone. And the truth is, his behavior has been less than flattering. so you would have good reason to feel judgmental. But for now, make sure you have fought for your marriage so that if he does return, you can insist that he makes positive changes before you invest in him again. Take one step at a time. Now's not a good time to throw in the towel. Hang in there.
Read, post and stay connected. Michele
JJ
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One thing my counselor said to me long ago that I wished I had listened to was to think of your spouse at this time in your marriage as a little, frail bird in your hand.
You want the bird to sit in your hand, you want it to trust you...so let it sit there quietly and when it feels safe, then maybe you can gently stroke it, not pet it, with your finger...
When it trusts you some more, then maybe you can pet it...And when it really feels comfortable, it will let you feed it...
Get the idea? patience...be calm, be still and let the bird sit in your hand or else you might crush it or force it to fly away.
Jtois
JJ
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Quote: I've been trying the LRT for about 2 wks. now.....
That's not long enough to get much results, let alone to be "going out of (your) mind".
Quote: My H is very sensative to things & now I hope the LRT doesn't backfire for me now that I've stop acting like I care about him & stopped all the persueing....
If he's very sensitive, be very careful you don't appear to be manipulating him, attempting to control him...
Quote: Even been going out with friends a couple of times.
To this I have to be very careful not to sound sarcastic, but is this "few times" a pattern of behavior that shows H that you are likely to move on? Or is it running away while looking over your shoulder to see if he's following, and if he isn't you stop running, and wait to see if he will come. But he doesn't so, you go back to ask why not. And of course, that's not pursuit.... is it?
Quote: Has the LRT backfired for anyone? I so need some advise ASAP! Going out of my mind.
The LRT -- LAST RESORT technique -- is just that... the LAST RESORT. You use it when you've accepted that he's not coming back but you are unwilling to file for divorce. Actually, among some councellors, filing for divorce yourself is a form of LRT. I mention that to show you how serious and powerful and dangerous a technique it is. You use it when you have accepted that he's not coming back. You are letting him go. You are moving on with your life and finding a new one, because you accept your old one is over, and the old patterns of your old relationship don't work. A NEW life, not out with friends "a couple of times". If he decides to join you in your new life, you and he will do so with a renewed level of respect, both with a renewed level of self worth, and a renewed commitment to each other to be together and share your renewed selves. No emotional blackmail, no dependency.
Can it backfire???? YOU BET. If you enter into it without the full sincerity of moving on, while leaving the door open for him to join you, but instead attempt to manipulate him into seeing your having fun but getting upset because he's not joining you, and then going back and asking and wondering and whining.... YES it will backfire.
LRT is your final letting go, your final act of self respect while still in the relationship, making your own life and moving on, but not closing the door to him. If he joins you, fantastic. If not, you know you will be fine without him, you will make a life, and you will be fantastic.
Yes, it can backfire if you are not strong enough to pull it off. It is the LAST RESORT, and it is the essense of self power, self knowledge, and self respect. It is the epitome of DB (in my opinion).
I, myself, have never been strong enough to pull it off. I believe if I was, and if I could, I'd have my W back. Hmmm... Something for me to think about.
z
JJ
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Believe me, I know the pain you are feeling. You will find many here do, which is what makes it the best place to be when you are in this situation!
Do you have The Divorce Remedy (or Divorce Busting)? If not, please go buy it today and start reading. It has worked for me, and I see it working all over this board in so many ways.
First and foremost, remember that you can only change and control yourself. Take a long, hard look at who you are and compare it to who you want to be. Compliment yourself on those things which match or are close! And start working on changing those things which are not.
Treat your wife as your best friend, who is going through a difficult time of questioning what she wants out of life and whether she is on the right path. Don't apply pressure. Give her compassion. Listen to what she says she wants and needs from you and do what you can to give her those things, even if it's space and time.
If she needs to explore whether there is a chance for her in the EA, there is really nothing you can do to change that. It's a decision she has to make for herself - and if it's not going to work out (and most don't), that's something she's going to have to learn for herself. Trying to rush that process will only backfire.
You need to take care of yourself. Discover what your needs are, what your bounderies are, what you want and how to get that. When you read the book, really pay attention to goal-setting and writing down what steps to take to get there. Keep track of what gives you positive results and what doesn't. And don't forget the rest of your life - have fun when you can, spend time with friends, take care of yourself.
Above all, remember that this is going to take time. You will need lots of patience. But you have a chance here to really grow, and that's priceless.
Keep us updated! pbutterfly
JJ
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I've found that the hardest part of "showing" her the changes is my perception of how the changes should affect our relationship. I find myself wanting to say, "Look at me. Look at what I've become. I can be the man you wanted all along. Why can't you see that." She can see it. Believe me, she notices. It makes her mad. It makes her mad because these changes didn't happen until way long after she wanted them to happen. She feels like I didn't think she was worth it until I had to do without her. Trying to get her to notice only makes her madder. But, believe me, she notices.
Once it kicks in that the changes are for real (and this is the hard part - it takes TIME), she may begin to trust that the relationship will go in the direction she wanted to begin with. Always keep in mind that these changes must be for you, not for her. If she thinks that they are temporary, an attempt to appease her until things are smooth again, we're just back where we started, waiting for this to happen all over again. We want our spouses back, but we also must want these changes for ourselves. That, or we must choose between our spouses and what we used to be. We can't have both.
I have made changes because I came to the realization that the way I treated my wife was not conducive to a healthy relationship. These changes are permanent, whether she returns or not. I have become a better person and do not wish to be the man I was before. Yes, I hope that these changes will help to save my marriage, but they are permanent in any event.
JJ
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No contact can be better than contact depending on your timing.
DO NOT contact your SO when you need affirmation. This will show and will push him away. Also, it is more likely than not you will not get it, which will ruin your PMA.
DO NOT contact your SO when you are looking for signs of progress. This will come across to him as you being needy and will push him away. Again, it is also more likely than not you will not get what you are looking for.
DO NOT contact your SO when you are in a bad, sad, or crummy mood. This will usually result in a bad encounter, which will push him away.
DO contact your SO when you have something that needs to be addressed. However, don't make up things just as an excuse to contact him. When you do contact him, make sure you are mentally prepared with good PMA.
DO contact your SO when you are in a good mood. This will often shine through in the contact and will leave him with a good impression.
DO be the first to end contact with your SO.
DO read your SO's mood when you contact him. If after a few comments, the contact is not going well, end it. If Your SO volunteers information, listen and validate to show him good rapport.
EVERY contact with your SO should be an opportunity to win him back. Do not fall prey to your present emotional needs, which can result in contact that pushes him away. Keep your ultimate goal in mind. Use contact to draw him closer!
Hope that helped.
JJ
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I will give you the advice Michele gave to me......every person is a package deal. He is a whole package....his emotional baggage, his situation, his character, his physical status, everything. And so are you. So decide if you really want this whole package.
Then......
TAke care of yourself and your self esteem. Only do that...do nothing otherwise. Watch his actions (not his words). Be loving, kind, gentle...don't pursue him.
Give it a few weeks. If you hear nothing...test the waters.
ADd a lot of fun to your life....and joy.....it makes you happy and very attractive. Take very good care of yourself.
I'm counting on you
JJ
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