OT, I am not trying to get you off this by saying I already did everything you say...but I did just about that. I DID answer her in the PAST, SEVERAL times when she would bring up this idea of somehow drinking her problems away was better than perscription medication. I gave her the list of pros and cons. Maybe not as extensive as yours but the gist was the same. She ALWAYS takes such things as me acting like her father, as if ANYTHING I tell her from a position of "I know this and you don't" is somehow condescending. Maybe I come across that way, dunno. She says I do. I am trying in that respect. This time I would have just been repeating myself and I didn't want to do that. I am tried of saying what the difference between anti-depressants and her current depressant of choice is beyond the obvious that one is taken under medical supervision and the other, well, not.
I have also expressed my frustration at her not getting help, and in this specific case, I left the topic by saying "I am not going to bug you about this. You say you know what you need to do and you now have the tools to do it. It frustrates me that you aren't going to do it. I don't know what else I can do to encourage you. It's up to you now."
I was VERY careful not to be confrontational because that would have done no good. Been there, done that for 10 years and here we are. She accepted what I had to say and still managed to say "I know I need to do it..."
For some reason, she's hinted that her brother who died was into pills of some sort, she's DEAD set against any kind of drugs to help her problems and the more I say about it, the harder her position seems to get. All I can hope for is that she keeps going in the direction she's going in now and that eventually she gets to see someone who can dispell some of the urban myths (as I think most of her info is) that are preventing her from really improving her life.
As it stands, I THINK this will happen but not as quickly as I'd like. Oh well, I am used to being patient and I will do it now too.
That all said, I will take your advice and once again, in a "good" way, try to address at least the doctor's apointment issue with her today if not the meds too. We'll see where that goes.
Wonderful lists OT! Often when people are first "diagnosed" as needing anti-depressants there is a feeling of failure and weakness, "Oh, if I was a stronger person I wouldn't need these pills" that is natural. There's also the fear of being dependent on them (funny, they never worry about being "dependent" on alcohol, do they!) and see anti-depressants as some kind of "happy" pill. They aren't, they balance certain chemicals in the brain, that's it.You may not have enough of one or too much of another. They don't get you high! It's just like taking pills for diabetes or any other medical illness. It's also worth noting that the first week or so your W may feel fatigued and that is normal. Her body will need time to adjust to this new chemical intrusion. She also may need to try different ones before finding the one that works for her. I know a number of people who use anti-depressants and put off doing so for years. They now can't believe they put off making their lives so much better for so long due to pride. GH, I'm sure she's feeling very dejected right now. I know you see the pills as a help in your sitch (and they may very well be) but she is seeing herself as weak and a failure. So, just be aware of this when you encourage her to follow through. Be as patient as you can be here and, yes, maybe validating her feelings right now might be a good move.
Quote: I have also expressed my frustration at her not getting help, and in this specific case, I left the topic by saying "I am not going to bug you about this. You say you know what you need to do and you now have the tools to do it. It frustrates me that you aren't going to do it. I don't know what else I can do to encourage you. It's up to you now."
BRAVO!!!
Now, for an alternative approach to the question she asked, how about: "Honey, I'm wondering what you think are the differences between taking antidepressants to treat an anxiety disorder and using alcohol to cope?" That is, make HER answer the question.
This feeling of being a failure is EXACTLY what my W describes. I forgot to use that in my posts, but she says that all the time. She feels that going the drug route is the "looser" route, but somehow the alcohol route (also a drug mind you) is somehow much better...oh, yea, I remember, because with alcohol she can stop whenever she wants...um...never heard THAT before.
I am VERY sensitive to her feelings about this and have actually changed my approach because of it. I am trying VERY hard to validate her fears while at the same time trying to encourage her to get over them and do what she can to help herself. I have said things like "I know it's easy for me to say 'go get the drugs' because it's not me having to take them. It must be scary to think about doing that. All I can say is that if a doctor told me there was some way I could stop some pain I was feeling, I hope I would at least give it a try. Why not just do that? Give it a try and if it turns out to be a bad experience, then do something else. In any event, I know you're scared and I understand."
She responds to these kinds of things but still doesn't do anything.
I will keep trying with the encouragement of you and OT.
Quote: Now, for an alternative approach to the question she asked, how about: "Honey, I'm wondering what you think are the differences between taking antidepressants to treat an anxiety disorder and using alcohol to cope?" That is, make HER answer the question.
I haven't really asked her that directly but she's volunteered her opinion never-the-less. She's said the difference is that one is something she can do or not do and the other, well, is something "looser-ish", scary and addictive. She is TOTALLY convinced that she can quit drinking any time she wants to. These are either words of truth or words of addiction. The bottom line is that there is SO much more to it but the stigma I talked about with Whatis is really the main problem here. Somehow she thinks as soon as she takes a pill there will be some kind of sign that will appear on her forehead designating her a "weak looser housewife addicted to anti-depressants" whereas since nobody but me knows about her drinking habits, that is the more preferable route. I think even if everyone knew that she drank the way she sometimes does, she would still consider that the more "socially acceptable" way to "treat" this condition she has.
OT, I WILL try. I will not give up on this because she is SO close to getting REAL help for the first time since I have known her. She is SO close to sleeping through the night and not being afraid of being in the house alone. She is SO close to not being depressed and giving herself a chance to live a MUCH less stressful life.
Sounds good, GH but maybe just try to validate her feelings. We guys love to bring in the intellectual stuff and fix things. When you say "if the doctor told me..." it kind of reinforces her feelings of being a loser cuz once again she's wrong. I know that's not the intent (and I do it too!) but just a point for you to ponder. Lots and lots of people go through what she is, it's common so she's not alone. I guess, as you said, in her mind having a drink is a choice she makes whereas medication is a necessity. In our society it is much more acceptable to have a few drinks to unwind than to have to, God forbid,take medication for depression. Stigma talks loud. Hang in GH, you're on her side and that will talk even louder in the end.
(1) Challenge her on this addiction business, she is playing a tired old FALSE tape in her mind. One can certainly stop using antidepressants, though it is advisable to taper off of them. Once one becomes an alcoholic, stopping is much more difficult than that.
(2) Her answer is a cop out. Push more, -- "I agree that it is scary to try something new. But what difference do you think it would make to how you feel, to your health, to your children, to your functioning -- how do you think using alcohol versus using antidepressants to cope would affect YOUR LIFE?"
BTW, at some point you need to get back to figuring out what YOUR boundary is on this.... Personally, I would not stay with someone who would not try to get help for a debilitating condition that hurt me and my children and chose instead to engage in selfish, destructive behavior to avoid the pain.
Quote: BTW, at some point you need to get back to figuring out what YOUR boundary is on this.... Personally, I would not stay with someone who would not try to get help for a debilitating condition that hurt me and my children and chose instead to engage in selfish, destructive behavior to avoid the pain.
Well, this is NOT to say it's right, but she has not really changed much since the day I met her in most of the things I talk about. Does that make me destructive to have married her, and had kids with her? Maybe. Maybe I wanted to save her, I don't know, but I do know that I am a LONG way from my boundary in terms of these things. I don't plan on living this way forever, but I do plan on living the way I am personally living, with all that i have learned over the past year, and I am willing to see if that makes a difference in our overall sitch. If not, and that is clear to me, then it's time to think about other outcomes. I KNOW I can't fix her. I am just trying to fix myself and then live the best I can. I hope she chooses to do the same and if my leading by example can help, then I will certainly do it.
As for your #1, like I said, anytime I try to present her with info like this, she puts up her wall. It's part of how our relationship has gone thus far and something that I want to change but for now it's not.
The fact about #2 is that she doesn't know and in terms of #1 & #2, that's why I want her to see a doctor and really get the facts about all this. Coming from someone else, I think it may sink in. Coming from me, it's just more of the same "anti-drinking/drugs" stuff from me she's heard a million times throughout our marriage.
Quote: The fact about #2 is that she doesn't know ...
Oh come on, yes she does. She isn't stupid. But, she may be afraid or avoiding what the difference looks like. The point is to get her to really think about the question FOR HERSELF, rather than dismissing it in an offhand manner by appealing to one of oft-played empty pieces of rhetoric.
"Honey, I'm not real sure what the REAL differences would be once you were passed understandable fears about trying somethijng new. What do YOU think the differences would be in terms of your life, happiness, and relationships if you coped for awhile using antidepressants versus using alcohol during that time?"
Notice, I did not say ABusing.... Tempting though it is, that is just piling on judgment.
BTW, is it really fair to your W not to let her know that in the long-term it is a dealbreaker for her not to try to work on her issues in a more productive manner than using alcohol. You are setting yourself up to be a WAS yourself -- not telling her what your boundaries are but preparing mentally in the distant future to leave if she violates them.
This was in todays daily e-mail from the 'makingherhappy' website, which I encourage all men to subscribe to:
"A woman knows, instinctively, without ever being told, as a result of biological development through the ages, that if a man can't stand up TO her, he cannot stand up FOR her."
