More Nuggets of Widsom from the Veterans!

[Jamesjohn]

From tielbeagle

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Imsad, you won't want to hear this but you have to "show" her what she's asking for, talking about it won't do. It takes time for them to see you've changed and to see that the changes are gonna stick. I was M 19 years at time of bomb, that was 18 months ago. Luckily I found DR the next day and started applying the techniques. My H didn't expect me to be upbeat and positive and happy around him, after all, my negativity and bitchy-ness is what got me into trouble in the first place. He told me he felt guilty because I was being nice to him. He also accused me of doing it out of desperation so don't be taken too aback if you get that too. I just told him that I didn't like the way I had become either, and it was the truth. I just needed to hit rock bottom after I got the "wake up call" of him telling me he didn't love me anymore and wanted a D.

And acting as if you are happy and upbeat and positive is very hard when you feel like you're dying inside but you must!!! Your W needs to see and experience the man she fell in love with again. And THIS you need to show her. Don't talk about it. Just do it.

My H and I are still together, he no longer wants his blasted D. My H 'thought' that he was done, had himself convinced but I knew he wasn't as done as he wanted to be. We are still recovering, it's been 18 months, and a long road full of ups and downs. He still isn't wearing his ring or telling me ILY like he used to do all the time for many years. Those are my next 2 goals. In the meantime I still show him that I'm not the same person anymore. He is being cautious. After all, I did treat him wrong for 19 years. That's a long time.

Good luck to you. Listen to the folks here, they know what they're talking about! Read DR and read it again. Don't give it to your W to read. She won't be interested and will view it as pursuing, and that doesn't work. Show her you are still the man she fell in love with, that 'he' is still "in there". Lisa

[Jamesjohn]

From sage

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One of the things that I've found from my own sitch is that early on, my responses to H's thoughts/expressions were so negative and controlling that he no longer tells me what he thinks (leading to the "loss of self").

So much of it was driven by my own insecurity -- for example, if H. felt insecure or upset about something and mentioned it -- I'd get so caught up in my own crap that I'd respond badly, essentially encouraging him to hid his feelings from me. For example:

H. wow, my boss really yelled at me today ("I need support here")

Me: He yelled at you? Are you going to get fired ("Oh God, I've always been worried about our finances. We're going to be broke)

H: Well, I didn't do what he was mad about and I...("Why did she assume that I did something wrong?")

Me: Yah, but, does he know that? ("Arrgh. Did he defend himself? We're going to the poorhouse")

H. Um, never mind.

You get my drift. Unfortunately, so do I but a bit late! What I'm finding now is that if I just listen (and it's not always easy! Just screwed it up royally yesterday!) and manage my own stuff, H. is lots more forthcoming. I think that not being able to express fear, wants, etc. is a big part of "losing" yourself.

Sage

[Jamesjohn]

From KAW

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I've been sticking to my goals and done very good at following through with them but I'm not seeing any real changes in her. I know she sees the changes I've made but I really don't think it matters to her. Guess it's time to go back and try something else.

PATIENCE! ... my dear fellow.

Basically, it has taken a period of months, if not years, of a steady downhill trend for the M to reach the state it is in now, allowing for your W to draw the conclusion that the trend can not be broken. Oh, like a stock market graph, you're change seem like some peaks, but she feels they are not going to stop the eventual crash.

What you are trying to accomplish is to change the momentum of the direction your M has taken ... to get it back on track of making it better ... so there is going to be a lot of inertia to overcome. While she has noticed your changes, she isn't convinced that the will stay ... that they are permanent. So you are not going to see a difference in her yet.

When will you see a change? When she is convinced that these changes for the better are here to stay. The downward trend has been bucked and she sees it is possible for things to remain better.

Just as important as it is to make changes for the better, is to keep doing them. When you find what works, do more of it and the only tool you have to demonstrate that these changes are for real and are here to stay is time ... a lot of time. She is going to have to feel that the good days outnumber the bad ones and it will remain that way. So you are going to have to learn to have lotsa patience ... patience ... patience ...

Think of your changes like steering an oceanliner, it takes a long time at the wheel before turning that boat around.

Somewhere in there could be the theme of your next thread?...

Of course, this doesn't mean you don't have to try something else. Finding the 180's that work is mostly trial and error, trying something new and finding it works is like bring new excitement back in the R. In striving to make things better you should always keep an eye open to new 180's to do. Its a life-long process, but never forsake the changes that you have made that do work bring you closer...

'til later,
KAW

[Jamesjohn]

From calystra

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It sounds like you're just coasting along right now and not actively DB'ing...

When is the last time you scrubbed through your goal list? (Have you even made a goal list?) It sounds like right now you're wandering about a little lost without direction or any idea of where to go next - This is exactly why we need goals! If you don't know where you're going, how are you supposed to know how to get there?

I know how hard it is to come up with your goals or revise your old goal list if it's not working for you but it's something you have to do... so just sit down and start thinking. Commit yourself to getting back on the DB bus.

One thing you might want to try is acting "as if". It's funny because during DB, I never really understood this concept and how to apply it to my sitch but now I think I'm getting the hang of it. Start doing things and reacting to things in a way that your W doesn't expect.

For example (on my thread), H and I had an argument and I came home with flowers - which I've never done. He expected an argument when I got home but instead he got something different. Another example - last week we argued while he was on his way home from work and when he got home, I had a nice dinner waiting for him. Again, he was expecting a moody wife but didn't get one.

Are there any ways you can apply this sort of thing to your interactions with your W? Show her you're a different person and trying to change.

[Jamesjohn]

From carolkh

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Dear Blues, my H left me suddenly after 19 yrs marriage (young EA involved)...at the time he "hated me intensely and wanted a divorce." One month later, he was "confused and didn't know WHAT he wanted."

We had a very strange separation...got along better than when we were together. After about 6 months we even started having nookie every so often. BUT, he was very adamant about he didn't want me getting "IDEAS" that we were getting back together just because we were having sex.

I found DB and this website as soon as my H left, and implemented the DB strategies. Also, one of my main goals at first was to become "friends" again...which we did. BUT, we were still "in limbo" and things were just progressing SO slowly (Michele reminded me in individual counselling that we were on my H's timetable).

Fast forward 16 months (and lots of patience by me, the queen of "want it now"). I am tired of the limbo, and implement some rather radical DB type strategies....main one being, making my H feel like he doesn't really "have" me.

My H suddenly wakes up; begs ME to get back with him (crying, pleading, telling me we have SUCH a history, etc). I made him wait 2 months of him pursuing me like crazy just to cement his love for me so we would not have this problem AGAIN. Then I told him he could give his 30 day notice at his apt, and move back in.

He has been home now for 5 months and things are WONDERFUL. I have the marriage I always wanted (we had a pretty bad marriage for around the last 15 yrs). Believe me I am doing all I can to keep it that way too; and my H is really making an effort. When he wanted back with me, he said he would do ANYTHING to get me back, and he did.

But he had to want it really badly...you just cannot force them into it...when he was telling me stuff that I had told him a yr before (trying to convince me to let him back), I would say, "I told you that last yr" and he would say, "but I was not ready to hear it then." He also said it was like he had been in a fog for 2 yrs.

Thought you might like some encouragement in knowing that there ARE success stories...but many times it takes quite awhile. I never thought I could have such infinite patience, but I did, and it was worth it!

Carol

[Jamesjohn]

From jamie
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Talked to wife some more and I think she has some unresolved issues from our past that she just can't get over. I did ask her if she wanted a D or wanted to work things out and she said she is willing to try, I just at this point don't know how hard she is willing to try. At this point I'm trying to get her to at least read DB's book and hope that maybe she will have a different attitude and be willing to look at unresolved issuses in a different perspective as she is a intraverted type of person and holds her feelings in.

With what you have described I say without any qualification: TRY with your W. I would not ask her again whether she really wants to try and just view the next few months as an opportunity to do as much as you can to show her that, with respect to your pieces of the puzzle, you are one caring, understanding man who wants his family back together. Let her see all of the things that you've done for yourself during your separation. Let her witness the changes at home. Continue to give her as much space as necessary and work on your marriage for your sake, but also and, not less significantly, for your children's sake.

She is obviously still on the defensive and uncertain as to how optimistic she will allow herself to be, but try to remember what it was that clicked between the two of you when things were good in your relationship. You have a great opportunity here to potentially pull your marriage back together. Read DB again and any other books that have helped you remain commited to saving your marriage during these difficult times. I can honestly tell you that, as strange as this may sound, some of the most difficult times to exercise some restraint on what you say and how you react to your W will be when, as now, you begin to receive some encouraging signs. You suddenly want more and more and more yesterday and you find that, upon reflection, sometimes their total disinterest was easier to endure!

Think of something you can use in your mind to have you slow your thoughts down and not be too demanding re. your W while she explores the possibilities with you. Whenever you're tempted to initiate any relationship conversation make a pact with yourself that you'll wait 48 hours and see how you feel then. I guarantee that most often the trigger two days earlier just doesn't seem like such a big deal and a premature conversation with a spouse who is not ready for it can be avoided.

So, again, I say go for the opportunity to potentially save your marriage and your family. Best wishes to you--Jamie

[Jamesjohn]

From ILM
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Brenda,
you're making the same mistake most of us made at some point (I personally was an expert in doing it):
you're expecting a certain reaction at a certain time.

Now, consider this:

a)what if his time frame is different? What if the seeds you planted need more time to germinate than you planned? What if the process is slower, and in two months, when your deadline comes and you do what you want, you disrupt an otherwise successive process, happening slowly in his soul?

b)you're looking for something that has a particular shape, something you already defined. What if it comes in a different shape -- will you be able to recognize it and not reject?
If you're so focused on the deadline and on getting the response you expect, don't you think it's an attempt to control the situation and his actions, including the process of his inner growth? Why do you think he should surrender to this control? Would you like to be controlled in some important for you process, when you need to understand something very important and not to make a mistake? Would you like to be hurried or pressured?

[Jamesjohn]

From Michele, Re: I did it. I sent a "Dobson" letter to Husband
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Dear Brenda,

I am glad that you wrote the letter and it helped you to feel better. I do however, want to clear up a misunderstanding that you and many other DB'ers sometimes have. DBing means doing what works. In my book and my seminars I teach people how to be more systematic- to approach their spouses in ways that work rather than shoot from the hip. I also teach couples to switch gears if what they're doing isn't working, even if they think it should work. So when you say that Dbing didn't work in your situation so you wrote a letter, what you're really saying is that you watched the results you were getting and decided to try something new. That's DBing, even if the letter isn't something I propose in my book.

It's important to keep trying new things when your are hitting dead ends. You did that, and that's good. I'm not surprised though that the letter prompted little response from your h. Usually, not always, spouses who are questioning their commitment KNOW that you are committed to working things out. They really don't need to be told. However, once in a while, setting limits is a real 180. When it is, it can have a very positive effect. It's possible that your h is a slow learner and he will come around yet, but it's hard to tell.

One thing for sure, if you back down now, he will never believe a word you say. So don't do it.

Be patient. I'm glad the letter helped YOU feel better about yourself. That is extremely important. Good for you.
Michele

[Jamesjohn]

From sithlord8

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STOP CHASING!! I speak from my own personal experience on this one... my sitch is relatively new, but the harder I pushed the harder she stayed away. When I quit calling and get my resolve in line she calls and we've had a few 'good' talks due to this. Nothing major, but quit pushing. Stop trying to 'force' your wife into doing what you want. You need to take a long hard look at yourself and see what is in you that's good and bad and work on you regardless of what your wife is doing. Go out with your friends. Start having fun on your own, and act 'as if' you don't care what she is doing... don't question her about what she's doing, don't follow her, just do your own thing. I know that it's hard, I'm having a hard time with it, but I know that when I've actually been doing this that she's beginning to wonder, why I'm not acting like my old self and it really lightens things up...just my $0.02... mike

[Jamesjohn]

From Janey2

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You see, whenever you ask her what she has been doing, she maybe feels you are trying to "control" her. This is what my H felt. My H did keep saying he wanted "space". In the end I got the message and stopped asking him what he had done or what he was going to do--this kind of thing.

Instead of asking her what she has been doing, what about telling her what you have been doing? This means you may have to start doing something new so that you have something to talk to her about.

She is really telling you what is wrong. You have to listen. You are smothering her and she wants you to leave her "alone". Eventually, if you can keep cool and not ask her, she will probably volunteer information. You cannot keep on as you are, you are driving her away.

The other thing: you have to learn not to argue. Bite your tongue. It is possible. Lots of ideas to try. Then if something works, do it again.

If you think about it, you will see that what you are doing isn't working. Michele says to try something different. When you find something that works, do it again!!

It doesn't matter if you think it is "right" or not!!