Saving Pack through D, Pack_19 part V

[Pack_19]

hi DnJ,

Thanks a lot for your reply. I can see many of the points you raise, specially the importance of forgiving actions and not people, I never meant to imply any kind of moral superiority here. I was a very deficient man myself when DB came and I had made mistakes both in how I treated xW and how I treated myself.

The price of forgiveness is paid by the person who is forgiving, I mean it in the sense of accepting what has happened and not expecting any kind of compensation, retaliation, explanation... simply moving on with the certainty that those were things you were bound to experience and taking the learning from them. On that sense, I think forgiveness is a hard subject in that, as you very well say, it is a muscle we dont often train or exercise.

Regarding your point of forgiving the actions and separating them from the person, I am trying to. I just cannot find any action or attitude in xW inviting me to see her on a new light were I can just be kind to her. Maybe I need to be the bigger person here, I will think about it and work to make it happen.

Agree on the recovery side of this, I probably meant this is something that will come with us for years to come. You go through hell, touch the flames many times, and then use that pain to look inside and change/improve the things that were wrong in the first place. I would not change the man I have become for 20 chances to make my M work anew. That is how powerful the message in this board is.

Thanks a lot D, I will follow up with a post on something I wanted to share!

((hugs)) Pack

[Pack_19]

hi all,

I hope you are all great and continue to improve others' lives. There is something I wanted to share, to collect support and let go of frustration.

With our new divorce settlement I pushed for us to exchange custody Mondays at school. However, when I wanted to implement it, I talk to the school director and she told me they did not have lockers to hold S9 and S5 books. So I thought, I dont want to make them carry bags with clothes and books every Monday, it is fine if we continue to do it Sundays.

Few days ago I got an email from xW where she stated that we were going to start exchanging Mondays and there was no need to exchange clothes anymore. I had no uniforms for school, so I took a couple of days to reply and explain to her that I thought it was unnecessary to buy more clothes (after all, I end up paying for most of them and I am being 100% honest here) and had discussed it with school.

She proceeded to send me a mail that seemed to have been redacted by a lawyer. She said we were going to go down this path, as stated in our D settlement and she told me I was not putting kids first, I was asking them about her private life (meaning OMs I guess), I was avoiding communication with her and poisoning their minds to think they are a lower priority to her. Then she told me to stop this fight and move on.

I had to pull all my strength and rediscovered confidence to firstly dismiss any thoughts that she was right and I was indeed hurting my children and secondly to not reply and bite the bait for a fight. I wrote back and told her my concern was that I did not have uniforms but I would buy more and I told her all I cared about her life was her role as my children mother.

I no longer think about her life or getting her back, never ever have I intended our children to get in between and I honestly have all my focus on them being happy. S9 is really clever and perceptive, he is in between all of this and I dont know how I can do things better. I could be kind, but she is still going to throw these bombs at me whenever she wants, I refuse to show her something different than a new and strong man that knows his principles and has strong boundaries.

Yesterday we exchanged the kids after a visit, she made a comment about S5 clothes and I replied something dry because xW has lost 2 pairs of beach flip flops I bought this year for S5 (I said, ok then they are lost, I am sure I dont have them and I sent them to you during summer holidays) and said goodbye. 2 mins later she sent me a message telling me to not disrespect her in front of the kids. All I could think of was that poisoned email accusing me of all that BS. I guess I did not handle the situation well. BUt at least I have had the emotional stability to think what I want to write and do.

Today I purchased a bunch of uniform clothes for both S9 and S5. I refuse to give her the power to tumble the new self respect I have. I will have all I need for my children at home and be grateful we dont have to see each other every sunday.

On the rest of points. Pack and the kids are the centre of my life. After the crossfit competition I went to, I got so much motivation to improve that I have smashed all my PRs and my friends keep telling me how much I am improving. I am getting stronger and have abs showing out!! hahahahaha I have started building a business with a good friend based on all the cloud usage knowledge I have developed professionally and I am about to read The rationale male. I am still working on active listening and my R with the kids.

Oh and I recently met a woman who drives me crazy. She is only 27 and when I told her about the kids I think I made her freak out a bit. Things are going great in person, but she has asked me to slow down because she has a different emotional pace. I have fears that my personal situation might be too much, but I am working on thoughts that I am a seriously valuable man and I can be the most attractive person with all my life circumstances. Maybe you can offer me some guidance on how to meet someone younger and move things slowly when you have kids.

I have had a small step back, but on the positive side, it is much smaller and I didnt buy into the drama. I keep working, I keep improving, I keep saving Pack after D. Thank you all, I cannot wait to hear your opinions and suggestions.

[Card29]

To be clear, it’s not that we accept disrespectful behaviour, we just more shrug and move on. After all, we can only control ourselves. And with growth, detachment, understanding, empathy, compassion, and forgiveness; behaviours and words which once cut to the bone, no longer sting.

I'm in my second DB process. D#1 was 9 years ago, and I was lucky to find this message board. In hindsight, the most shocking thing was how little I cared when I eventually confirmed OM. I suspected it for the first few months. It was my biggest fear in life. Left by your W for OM. The insecurity that can drum up in a man is unreal. But months after BD, I had a light bulb moment. I'd cried and agonized enough. In one split second, I was suddenly over W. I never had a moment of hesitation to move on with my life at that point. A few weeks later, OM was confirmed to me. First by xW's best friend, then by xW. A confessional of sorts. It had the emotional impact of finding out she bought a new pair of shoes. I truly did not care. It was almost nice to confirm my suspicions.

Everyone has their own journey. Pack, maybe you will need to live with that boundary for a long time or forever. But don't give up on the idea of permanently forgiving it. I can't even give advice for how to get there, because I just did. You can't just "forgive" and be done with something that personally destructive. You have to truly feel it. But if you ever wrestle with the idea of fully forgiving, try to be pro-forgiveness for your own sake. It's an unbelievable weight off of your shoulders if you can truly let go.

Congrats on all of your progress. It sounds like your story is one for the DB history books, even with the story still being written.

Also, I, too, miss Sandi. She was there for me in 2014. I'm so glad much of her wisdom is pinned at the top of the board.

[Pack_19]

Hi all,

I can't believe it has been over a year since I last posted. DB continues to be part of my daily routine. While others might listen to music at home, I still listen to my audio with the golden tips I’ve gathered from all of you, especially Sandi, Steve, and LH. It helps me reinforce the image in my head of the man I want to be and the idea that there is only one way ahead.

Where can I begin? xW and I maintain a business-like relationship around the kids and finances, and that’s all. Whenever I drop off or pick up the kids, I focus on them and the fun things they did with their mom. I ALWAYS leave first and look her in the eyes when she has something to share. I have learned to love and respect the man I am becoming, and that attitude comes naturally.

A few months ago, the kids came home talking about mom's friend, how they visited him, and what they did with him. I stayed strong, remembering Gekko’s comment about being the one and only man, such a powerful presence that all others fade in comparison. I am reaching a place where hearing about OMs does not affect my peace; I never thought I’d be able to say that.

Today marks the last month I have to pay alimony, and that has driven me to seek support here again. We’ve often said that I cannot feel guilty for what she offers or doesn't offer the kids when they’re with her. We’ve also said that no matter how much I pay her, it wouldn’t change the fact that she is free to spend it however she wants. I am working on reframing my thoughts: I will always give my children what they need—that is all I can do. Her financial situation is no longer my concern. It has been five years since BD, and she left me at home. LH once said not to become bitter over money, not to be that man, and I keep that thought in mind. Yet here I am, still wondering if this makes me selfish...

I have many thoughts about the sacrifices I made to be close to S11 and S6. They truly are the best part of my life, which shows in every trip, party, weekend outing, and bedtime reading session. However, I feel like I have distanced myself from the ambitious young man I was in my 20s who wanted to live in a large metropolitan city and have an amazing career. Starting a business from Spain in cloud artificial intelligence is proving challenging, and balancing it with my full-time job is consuming my days. But I see it as the only way to reconnect with that part of me.

Recently, I read *The Rational Male* and am now reading *Meditations* by Marcus Aurelius. I’m not sure how much of the theory in the former is true, but the idea that a man reaches his peak attractiveness in his early 30s (due to various aspects of life aligning) stuck with me. I remind myself that these are the best times of Pack as a man, and that makes me feel strong and confident. I’ve been on many dates and continue learning about relationship dynamics, but I’m learning to be happy in my own shoes, as no woman has truly clicked on all levels for me. My sister got married two months ago. When I saw the pictures of me there, hugging S11 and S6, looking fit (daily CrossFit paying off), it all clicked. This is how my family looks now. I don’t regret anything I did with xW; everything I did was with the best intentions, given the limited knowledge and experience I had.

The new home will be ready in about a year, and the kids are thrilled about getting their own rooms and a place for all their toys. This month, I got my A license to ride any motorbike and keep improving my personal bests in CrossFit and running. GAL, GAL, GAL like a madman! Last November, I traveled to Disneyland Paris with the kids, my parents, and my sister. Probably the best money spent in years—what an amazing time we had. I can't wait to enjoy Christmas with them.

I keep moving forward, I keep improving, and I’m not done yet.

My PIES:

P - Gain 5kg of muscle, improve my marathon PB (sub 3:30), practice my sexual kung-fu, and continue to dress with my own style.
I - Build my own business, learn more about investments, improve my motorbike riding and car racing skills, and understand relationship dynamics.
E - Improve active listening and empathy, focus on the happiness from what I have, forgive xW, and detach.
S - Learn about oriental religion, talk to God and my family more often, and spend more time in nature.

Posting here always feels incredible. I will review newcomers’ posts. If there’s someone you think I could listen to and help, please let me know. I can’t wait to hear from you all.

Thanks for giving me some of your time again.
Pack

[DnJ]

Good Morning Pack

I’m glad you dropped in. It’s good to hear from you.

I am reaching a place where hearing about OMs does not affect my peace; I never thought I’d be able to say that.

Well done!

Pretty sweet, isn’t it?

Today marks the last month I have to pay alimony

Yay! The extra funds will be welcomed I’m sure.

and that has driven me to seek support here again.

Let’s have a look.

We’ve often said that I cannot feel guilty for what she offers or doesn't offer the kids when they’re with her. We’ve also said that no matter how much I pay her, it wouldn’t change the fact that she is free to spend it however she wants. I am working on reframing my thoughts: I will always give my children what they need—that is all I can do. Her financial situation is no longer my concern. It has been five years since BD, and she left me at home. LH once said not to become bitter over money, not to be that man, and I keep that thought in mind. Yet here I am, still wondering if this makes me selfish...

Yes, reframing/controlling your thoughts will alter/clarify things. In that vein, a few underpinnings you should consider:

- “I cannot feel guilty for what she offers or doesn't offer the kids when they’re with her.”

You can feel however you feel. For you do and will. Stating you cannot, when you can or do, leads to confusion and not accepting of said feelings. And it is hard to move forward with such.

I am not culpable, nor responsible, for what she offers or doesn’t offer the kids when they’re with her.

That statement is accurate and correct. You can feel all kinds of things. Acknowledge them. Let them go. In the end, you control you. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions. Not XW or her action/inaction.

- “no matter how much I pay her, it wouldn’t change the fact that she is free to spend it however she wants.”

Sort of. She is free to spend alimony however she wishes to. Child support is supposed to be allocated to the children and their expenses. She is not completely free to do whatever she wishes with those funds. That being said, policing that would be a nightmare. And not your job.


Yes, her financial situation is no longer your concern. Or responsibility. Or Problem. It’s not. So you don’t need to fix it. (Yay!)


“Yet here I am, still wondering if this makes me selfish...”

I guess you have some feelings of being selfish. Remember, feelings do not equate to facts. Such feelings are likely stirred up due to this being the last month of alimony.

Rationalizing, looking at the facts of things, helps quell and understand the emotions and their triggers. The what and why of your feelings.

You were married for five years, and paid the requisite alimony due to the duration of the marriage.

I am suspecting XW’s financial picture is less robust than your’s. You’re building a house, making a home, with bedrooms for the kids. Starting a business. Living and loving life. You’ve worked hard to get here. No need to feel guilty or selfish about your efforts, nor the dividends now being paid out from those efforts and hard work.

Or, if XW’s financial picture is brighter than your’s. That’s ok. Let it go.

Either way, alimony is complete. Just child support - and maybe with 50/50 custody there is none, or minimal.

I have many thoughts about the sacrifices I made to be close to S11 and S6. They truly are the best part of my life, which shows in every trip, party, weekend outing, and bedtime reading session. However, I feel like I have distanced myself from the ambitious young man I was in my 20s who wanted to live in a large metropolitan city and have an amazing career. Starting a business from Spain in cloud artificial intelligence is proving challenging, and balancing it with my full-time job is consuming my days. But I see it as the only way to reconnect with that part of me.

Everyone makes sacrifices. Oftentimes, those sacrifices are made unwittingly and unknowingly.

People sacrifice their financial future to go on a trip they can’t really afford, purchase a car, or whatever. Some folks made life sacrifices by not attending class back in high school. Some sacrifice their time with family for their career. And on and on.

We cannot have it all! That’s the big lie. Yet, people run around, live their lives, like they can have it all.

Unwittingly and unknowingly. People ignore and defer the cost for immediate gratification. Yet, the bill comes due. It always does.

You see your sacrifices. The cost. The reason why. The choice. It truly is sacrificing one thing for another.

The luckily few, see this. See the cost and choice. The wise few make the choice. It’s within your control. Ah, accountability. If there ever was a bane of modern society. lol. Being accountable. Owning your actions and choices. Even those you made unwittingly.

Anyhow, you see this. And with that vision, sacrifice becomes investment. You choose to invest in something, rather than sacrifice something. Yes, it’s a bit of semantics, and yet more. When one accepts they cannot have it all, they can choose to invest in what they truly need and/or desire.

Kids and their futures for example. What are you willing to sacrifice for such an investment? What is a sensible sacrifice? Fully realizing that your financial success has a factor upon their future too.

Of course, your most precious resource is time. One of my life-long tenets was/is, “when given a choice between time and money, always choose time”.

One of my best, well one I am most proud of, investments/sacrifices was paying off my mortgage. I could see the writing on the wall from my employer, and the pressures they could, and were, exerting upon their staff. Forcing them to move.

I (and XW) purposefully chose to forgo a few years (seven actually) of vacation and get the mortgage paid off. And out from under the heal of my employer’s boot. We still had vacations, just more local is all.

After those years, with the extra monthly funds, the street was much easier. The extra years of said monies funding many vacations, trips, kids activities, and their future schooling. And yes, I/we did manage to remain in our house, even with all the shenanigans from my employer. I did have to commute for over two decades however. Sacrifice/investment. There is always a cost. I made mine with purpose.

Anyhow, just some musings of a single Dad of four grown successful kids. (With my first Grandkids on the way. And twins!! Gosh, Grandpa DnJ.)

Have a great day.

D