MLC Hubby wants to move out

[RegretfulLA]

Last night we told S18 and S20 that H would be moving out. Actually, I made H tell them and made sure they understood that this is H's decision. Of course they were sad and a little surprised... it's got to be devastating news for them, even if nothing is permanent at the moment. Of course we made sure to tell them that we love them and that this has nothing to do with them, and they can talk to us at any time.

H says he's found a place to live and is closing in on buying a used car. I have drafted a pretty detailed separation agreement. I am not a lawyer but have worked so closely with lawyers throughout my career that I think I did a decent job just laying out some terms to protect us both. Probably not legally binding but at least it will be an agreement in writing that I can use if I ever need to.

After we told them I went for a walk and when I came back I told H that I just hoped that he could be happy. He has said that living in this house is "making him" unhappy but I honestly do not think that I am the cause of his unhappiness/depression. No. I KNOW that I am not the cause of his unhappiness. He is unhappy and depressed because he has issues going back his childhood that he has never resolved. In true MLC fashion, H has said that he no longer can live here, and he needs some "space" to figure things out. He even admitted that he was having an MLC.

Thinking back, I think this most recent episode was triggered by some financial/work stuff that slowly transpired between 2021/2022. I think I mentioned this but H worked for a company that went public in 2021 and by the time we were able to sell our stock in 2022 it was almost worthless, and he had been laid off to boot (as the company was trying to save itself by cutting executives). He had a senior role there and if things had been different we'd have plenty of money. Instead we are penny pinching and watching every dime. Anyway, H was kind of devastated by all of this and went into a funk. It took him almost a year to find a new job, but he ended up starting his own company, which re-energized him. It's been about a year with the new company and it's going well, but he's still not happy.

Over the years I have been the target/perceived cause of his problems - he has never realized or accepted that I'm actually here to support him. He treats me like an enemy. He has very serious Mommy issues and I think he wants a Mommy - not a mother, but a Mommy. I'm really domestic and I cook and like to be around the house but I'm not a coddler. Not with my own children and certainly not with him. H has perceived that I've never been happy with HIM because "I'm always telling him to do something differently." I am not sure how he expects me to communicate my wants and needs if I don't tell him. It's so immature. I have very serious doubts that he can overcome his low self esteem issues, especially if he is not getting the right help.

He did say that he was seeing a therapist (he has been on and off for a while) but she has raised her prices and now it's a car payment every time. I asked him to look into getting a new therapist that would be covered by our insurance. I don't think this therapist has done much for him since he continues to mope and now is ultimately moving out. I think she is just listening to him and not actually helping him.

Also, during this conversation with the boys H said "I love your mother and want the best for her" and afterwards I finally got to say to him "I know you think you do."

This is all super depressing and I know it's going to affect the boys - it's like their childhood is really over now. S18 asked H not to leave until he goes off to college in Sept but I am not sure that is going to happen. Way to go, H.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

(((Hugs))) it sounds like the conversation went reasonably smooth.

H is certainly deflecting and looking elsewhere to blame his unhappiness. Pretty typical for folks in such emotional turmoil/crisis.

With time and space, and with some good fortune, hopefully H will burn through his feelings of resentment and blame and projecting and such. Then with even more good fortune, he may even realize that “hey, R hasn’t been bugging me lately and I’m still unhappy. Hmmm, perhaps she and the house aren’t the cause after all.” And with even more good fortune, he won’t just run towards something else and actually decide to look inward towards the true root of his turmoil and unhappiness.

H has perceived that I've never been happy with HIM because "I'm always telling him to do something differently." I am not sure how he expects me to communicate my wants and needs if I don't tell him. It's so immature. I have very serious doubts that he can overcome his low self esteem issues, especially if he is not getting the right help.

Counterintuitively, now is the time to cease trying to help him. And definitely no more telling him to do something differently. Let him go. Give him to God.

Yes, H is immature. He will and is acting, behaving, and making decisions based upon his feelings. There will be little based upon rational well thought out and reasoned logic.

I understand and empathize with your doubts regarding H’s ability to overcome the various and significant challenges facing him. However, I do believe crisis folks can overcome them. It’s a matter of how much time they require.

This is H journey and you, thankfully, weren’t invite along for the ride. As best you can, let go the doubts of H and focus on you and your life and your boys. Live in your present and leave the future to unfurl as it will.

Also, during this conversation with the boys H said "I love your mother and want the best for her" and afterwards I finally got to say to him "I know you think you do."

I get the need to correct and point out to H his folly in reasoning or feeling or thinking. Realize he sees things very much different than you. Going forward, especially into these new living arrangements, you’re likely going to need to drink lots of STFU smoothies. H will not, heck even purposefully not, take your well intentioned meaning. He will feel attacked, and not heard. Validating his feelings/viewpoint doesn’t mean you have to agree with it. It’s just allowing him to feel as he does and letting him know he is heard.

A simple thank you in the above would likely have served you better. You know, letting H walk his path, letting go, and such. Also, a H feeling that he wants what is best for you would be better than an angry and confrontational H during negotiation and/or splitting up stuff, informal or formal that process may be.

As H starts to feel what he has lost/given up he will likely crank up blaming and baiting. Don’t take the bait. Be dim. No arguing. Just validate if/when necessary. BTW, agreeing can really take the wind out of their sails. If H is arguing the sky is red instead of blue, so what. Let him feel he is right or whatever he feels.

Anyhow, I think you know the drill. Just encouraging is all. Keep moving forward.

D

[RegretfulLA]

Thank you D for your encouragement. My anger will get the best of me. You are right about the STFU smoothies. My friend told me to get a word document and vomit my anger right into it. Of course, I have the right to be angry but given our particular dynamic, my anger will shut him right down. It's a tough position to be in. I need him to hear me and understand me and somehow have to figure out how to make that happen sans anger. If I do decide that I want to make this M work, it will be up to me to put aside that anger.

Anyway, those conversations won't be happening any time soon. For now, I'm just starting to tell people what is happening and feeling very supported by my friends and family. They are all telling me how sorry they are and I'm thinking that I'm actually winning here. H is taking all his negative energy and leaving and I'm starting to see that as more of a gift.

Not much more to say at this point. H is gonna do what he is gonna do, that much is clear. I feel bad for him. He's clearly hurting and confused and depressed... like you say. D, you definitely have a good handle on what an MLC is.

I don't plan on interacting with him much during this time. When I told my dad what was happening, he said, "Make sure you stay in contact and go on dates." NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Even though he and my mom have been divorced for almost 50 years, I don't think he understands what's really happening here.

And I'm coming to terms with it. Coming to terms with the REALITY of what's been happening vs. how I wanted things to be. He hasn't been a good H for a long time, and I deserve better - either from some new and improved version of him, or from another person who is maybe not so depressed.

[DnJ]

Good Morning R

You are correct, less negative energy and strife is a gift. It’s sometimes difficult to see while slogging one’s way through the bog.

I don't plan on interacting with him much during this time. When I told my dad what was happening, he said, "Make sure you stay in contact and go on dates." NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

LOL!

Yes, NOOOOOO.

You are spot on. H absolutely needs time and space. And no pressure. He is a hot mess and it’s going to take a while for him to figure himself out.

H is gonna do what he is gonna do

Yep. And let him own it.

Be dim and let go. H will be trying to paint a target upon you; you know justifications and such for his narrative. Staying out his path gives him far less ammo.

I need him to hear me and understand me and somehow have to figure out how to make that happen sans anger. If I do decide that I want to make this M work, it will be up to me to put aside that anger.

A couple of things from someone who has been there.

Firstly, let go your need for H to hear you. To understand your position. H is presently not capable and doesn’t want to. He will fight against it. H cannot/will not see it. He is consumed.

H is driven by emotions. Fleeting, ever-changing emotions. As such, his “reasoning” for doing what he does flits about.

One will have zero success trying to utilize rational logical reasoning with someone in crisis. The MLCer may hear you, yet they “must” run from their torment. Remember, H’s crisis has nothing to do with you. You didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him. No matter what you say, or how nicely or angrily you say it.

We cannot speed up a crisis. At best, our efforts would end up being neutral. Usually our efforts end up prolonging things. At worst one’s efforts stall the MLCer’s journey.

Secondly, for you, it’s not about putting your anger aside. It’s about working through it. Finding your acceptance of what’s transpired.

What I mean, using myself as example: My anger, my emotions, are mine. Own them. Take accountability for them. If seeing XW and OM together makes me angry, figure out why?

If I chose to just set my anger aside until they broke up, continuing being triggered by the couple, I’d have been angry for seven years now. My emotions come from me, from internal; not from others, from external. External triggers feelings. The feelings itself is manifested be self, and therefore influenceable by self.

XW and OM being together or not, does not control my emotional state.

We take ownership and accountability. My anger is mine. So to, my joy and happiness! My contentment and peace is not contingent upon the external behaviours of my XW or anyone else. It comes from within. It is me.

Find your peace. Find your acceptance. Find your joy and forgiveness. And you won’t be carrying around any anger to set aside.

D

[MamaG]

Hi RegretfulLA! I'm learning through your sitch too. We have similar paths. Your H's reaction and my H's reaction are very similar at the 'moving out' timeline. H definitely felt the need to leave and live by himself. It almost felt like he had to prove that he could handle living alone, paying his own way, taking care of himself, etc. I imagine you (like I) married in young 20s. My H didn't have much of a dating experience. He moved out of his parents' house and in with me. No break from accommodating others' needs. Never lived alone and for himself. I think this contributes to many of our sitches.

Over the years I have been the target/perceived cause of his problems - he has never realized or accepted that I'm actually here to support him. He treats me like an enemy. He has very serious Mommy issues and I think he wants a Mommy - not a mother, but a Mommy. I'm really domestic and I cook and like to be around the house but I'm not a coddler. Not with my own children and certainly not with him. H has perceived that I've never been happy with HIM because "I'm always telling him to do something differently." I am not sure how he expects me to communicate my wants and needs if I don't tell him. It's so immature. I have very serious doubts that he can overcome his low self esteem issues, especially if he is not getting the right help.

The above summarizes my H and I as well. Hugs to you as you move your son into school. I am still learning to live with an empty nest. This is yet another similarity in our sitches that we can help each other through. You aren't alone.

Hugs and prayers from to you.

[RegretfulLA]

I love this:

Secondly, for you, it’s not about putting your anger aside. It’s about working through it. Finding your acceptance of what’s transpired.

With time, I'll get there. This is all so new. H hasn't even moved out yet! But this is a great ideal to work toward.

@MamaG:

H definitely felt the need to leave and live by himself. It almost felt like he had to prove that he could handle living alone, paying his own way, taking care of himself, etc. I imagine you (like I) married in young 20s. My H didn't have much of a dating experience.

Well -H and I got married in our early 30's. Started dating when we were 28. So, he did have some experience living alone, but he wasn't exactly thriving. He didn't cook, barely did laundry and we literally left his furniture on the sidewalk when we moved in together. He was living the bachelor lifestyle. As far as dating, he dated some but nothing very serious. And most importantly - his credit was bad. He made some financial mistakes and then didn't really have to work on correcting them because I came along and handled it. But yes, I definitely feel like our sitches are VERY similar. Calgon take me away!!!

That said, H got a car today. I think I mentioned on here that he was considering a lease and I talked him down to buying a used car. Just to say, he got a BMW so it's not exactly a jalopy. Also, currently, we share one nice car and then my sons have their car which is fine but not good enough for H!

Anyway, H went to buy this car and he calls me from the dealership and says, "The down payment and monthly payment are exactly the same on the lease for the 2024 car as they are for the purchase of the 2021 car." Now. H has a habit of "running things by me" and then completely ignoring what I tell him. But today he said he called me to "run it by me" because he wants to make sure I'm comfortable.

He starts arguing hard for the lease. I say, I know you want the newer car, but please think about what happens if and when you decide to return to the household. We can't afford another car payment right now and you cannot get out of this lease. (BMW does not let you sell a lease to a third party like CarMax.) If you buy a car, you can sell it if you need to. Then I say, I'm adamant that you do not return the the household with any additional debt. I also said, the more things get complicated, the harder it will be to fix things in the future. I was really calm and I didn't get upset.

He says, well, I'm supposed to be getting extra work and I think the company will raise more money, etc. etc. and I really want my own car and I'm committed to making sure we can afford it. He says, if and when I come back, I don't want to drive the boys' car and I don't want to have to drive you to the subway or schedule my surfing around your work schedule.

I say, I have heard all of this before and this is the reason we are in the financial position we are in (high earner but a lot of debt). Because we spent money we didn't have, time and time again. I said I'm not doing that anymore.

Then I say, why don't you buy the used car and if and when you do get extra work or extra money then you can sell the car and lease another car. If you don't get extra money and you have to sell the car then I will drive the boys' car to work so you can go surfing whenever you want. (Entitled much??? I mean, must be nice just going surfing while the rest of us work. And, aren't husbands supposed to let their wives drive the nice car??? ) My commute is 20 minutes and I go there 3 days a week so it's not exactly a sacrifice. And their car is fine, it's just basic.

He says he's heard me. I make him repeat back to me what he thinks I'm saying. He does it - and then he gets to hear himself make a logical rationale. He says he'll think about what to do.

He buys the used car!! I tell him I really appreciate him doing that.

I feel like I have a small win here. Sure, he's still moving out and spending his retirement money on a BMW, but at least he can sell it. He has an out. He listened to me and took the slightly less desirable option for the sake of the relationship.

As soon as he got home he turned around and took the boys to play golf. It's ok, S20 is here for another week and S18 will be here for another month. Time is short and they are having fun. I'm all for it. H will have to do his laundry when he gets around to it.

[RegretfulLA]

H has moved out. Starting a new thread called "Rumspringa".


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