The psalmist declares a holy revulsion that must dwell in your heart against anything that challenges the law of God. If you consistently struggle to conquer an area of sin in your life, it may be that you do not hate that sin. One sin God hates is divorce (Malachi 2:16), not because He wants to be legalistic but because He knows the terrible consequences you will suffer from it. Satan's deception concerning this sin and all sin is so devious and the consequences of disobedience so eternal that you must develop a passion against all sin, for it destroys people's souls. Double-minded or undecided people (Psalm 119:113) are those who mix God's law with their own reasoning, listening to the voice of personal opinion rather than the voice of truth. Such compromisers lead the godly astray and are unstable in all their ways (James 1:8). If you are double-minded, rid yourself of lukewarmness, and purify your heart., If you don't hate sin, you will fall into it. Love God and hate sin, and you will always walk in the path of righteousness.
What is the verse 16 of Malachi? 16 "For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of lsrael. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty, " says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful
Do u know how hard it was not to want to share that with H as well? I didn't
Hi MamaG Sorry for the late reply. I'm not on here much these days. I'll try to answer your questions but have forgotten how to do the quotes (DnJ told me many times!).
Firstly, please don't call yourself names like "I'm weak". You sound like an incredibly strong woman & no matter how we respond to things, what we go through as the LBS is horrendous. We become a fraction of ourselves and then have to make a choice to do something differently. I may have got there a little quicker than you (or not) but it really wasn't easy. I work as a behavioural psychotherapist so arguably I had a bit more to draw on than others.
I think your question was about why I thought the difference in income/jobs was a trigger to MLC? Reflecting back, I still stand by this statement but think it was a whole load of other stuff too. The reason why, is that H never had high levels of self esteem. He could have gone further in his career but he was avoidant fearing failure. He went through a period of spoiling us all many years ago & incurred a lot of debt to do this. As such, he ended up on a debt consolidation scheme, which further confounded failure thoughts. The more I paid for, the more it made him feel bad, he would withdraw, I would become resentful & withdraw intimacy, he didn't feel loved further strengthening his negative beliefs about himself. It was a perfect storm on the night he began his affair. He'd argued with both me and the kids, went on a works night out and it was the night his national football team lost in the world cup. The AP knew we were married but came on to him and he went for it. He's since confirmed all of this, stating he always thoight I could do better than him and never fully invested always expecting that I would leave. The rest is fairly predictable.
My decree absolute (final divorce) came through this month & I've cried a fair bit, grieving for what my life should have been, but on the whole I'm good. H is showing tiny (inconsistent) steps that he's moving forwards & hes been in therapy for about 6 months now. Him and the AP are over, he's said he wants me back but I don't want him anymore. I still care deeply about his welfare but he needs to do the work and move in a different direction to me. He's still not really seeing much of the kids & my eldest is super angry at him (I think the divorce released a lot of held in emotion). His focus is still on being cared for and not necessarily caring for others ie kids!
I'll take time to read your story MamaG but please don't despair and make sure you are showing yourself kindness. This stuff is really tough. I'm not through it yet but seem to be stable and holding my own thanks to the amazing advice and guidance I received on here. Please feel free to ask anything, I won't necessarily have the answer but am happy to share any aspect of my story if it can help a tiny bit for someone else.
Some interesting stuff that came up in my feed today. I swear, my phone is listening/spying on me.
Murphy’s Law: Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong.
So, plan and prepare for it. Hope for the best, and be ready for the worst.
Kidlin’s Law: When you write down a problem clearly, then the matter is half solved.
50% of the challenge of solving problems is clearly defining the problem.
Gilbert’s Law: It’s always your responsibility to find the best way to achieve the desired result.
Take responsibility for outcomes and you lead a far more successful life.
Wilson’s Law: Prioritize knowledge and learning, and money will continue to flow.
The easiest way to make money is to be a constant leaner. Keep reading and always have a skill you’re working to develop.
Falkland’s Law: When there is no need to make a decision, don’t make a decision.
The most successful people make good decisions and they also ignore things that don’t need their attention right now. Don’t make decisions that don’t need to be made.
There was also a funny cartoon. Search dog hindsight cartoon. That more proves my phone is spying on me. lol.
Glad to hear from you. You sound well centered and grounded.
I agree that you need to tell the kids. Sooner rather than later. I think it better they find out/discuss with you and Mom than hear it from the grape vine.
The big message, the biggest message during that talk with the kids - the problems between you and W has nothing to do with them. You love them and none of this is their fault.
Kids are very egocentric and can take on blame and fault when it’s truly unwarranted. They’ll have questions. Be open, honest, and age appropriate.
Take care, and best of luck on acquiring the rental.
Could I get some more detailed advice on the financial stuff? I currently manage our accounts and watch like a hawk. In order to alleviate his own guilt, H is trying to do this "nicely" so I don't imagine that he would drain our accounts but I guess anything goes in MLC. I do need to figure out how to protect my assets and speaking to L is a good idea.
Good. Keep an eye on the accounts.
Some ideas for you. If any resonate with you and/or if your situation warrants them (in no particular order):
- Pay off joint credit cards. Cancel joint credit. Get your own credit card(s).
- Have your own bank account. Invest monies into it. (However, in most locales all monies are marital assets to be split if things go that road. A L can confirm your locale’s guidelines and laws.)
- job’s suggestion of purchasing gift cards is a good strategy for socking away some funds too.
- Ensure you are an authorized owner on all household bills and therefore allowed to alter or cancel any/all services. Lots of stories of folks being held hostage on an internet provider or cell phone bill by their angry spouse who won’t make/allow/do any changes.
- Speaking of cell phones. Split up the bill. Let H completely pay and look after his own phone. Along with his own credit card(s). You look after your stuff. Keep your credit score in your hands.
- Cars. Are you joint owners? Are you registered as such? Make sure you are listed.
- Same for other big ticket items. Motorhome, camper, cabin, whatever.
- Look into investment accounts too. Ensure you have full access to anything joint or your’s.
- Ensure you have access/authorization to whatever health insurance you currently have.
- Limit, no, remove H’s access to stuff that is your’s. Period. No discussion with him.
- Transfer half of joint assets to your personal account/control. (Again, a L can assure the legality of such action.)
- Document, document, document. Keep track of everything you do.
When I went through my situation, it was amazing how many providers, businesses, institutions, and such we/I dealt with. Lots of accounts and business relationships to notify/organize. Even down to the kids’ school/university accounts for tuition and music lessons. Post office box. Shares in the local coop. There is a lot of things acquired in decades of joint living.
On another, yet related note. My Dad is in a care home, which leaves my Mom living on her own in “their” house. She was not listed on many of the bills and providers and services. We found out many problems during one of Dad’s grim episodes. He was unresponsive and quite disoriented for some time. Found out that none of the businesses would even speak with Mom as she was not an authorized person on the account. (At the time, she was having phone and satellite TV problems and we could not get anywhere with them.)
When Dad came back to living and lucid, a few things got “fixed”. Mom, and I, were listed on all bills and household/life items. I was included, for what happens if Mom gets sick or incapacitated. Which brought up, power of attorney. Mom for Dad, and me for both of them.
As I said, lots of things to organize. When it’s all going well, we have no idea. When things go awry, it’s a mess. Getting/having things organized before, is so much better and less stressful.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
Yep - definitely a low energy wallower, but not really clingy. Avoidant. Rejecting. Stoic. I'm new to the MLC game so these classifications are all news to me!
MY XW was/is a high energy vanisher. She burns the candle on both ends. Heck, she’d burn it from the middle if she could. And she’s a vanisher. Poof. She left me, the kids, friends, family, pets, etc. Dropped the bomb during Thanksgiving supper and ran off with OM. All the way to his house 1/2 mile away. He’s my neighbour. And ex egg man. LOL! (Contrasted to Pattnee’s H who ran to the opposite of the globe.)
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
The fact is, if I had a million dollars lying around, I would probably be more enthusiastic about H leaving. For me, the financial piece/security is pretty important and at this age, I'm not super optimistic about finding someone new. Yes, I'm only 53, but... ugh. Dating! It bothers me that the money is a factor, but that's just reality. Money is a big factor.
You are on two paths or journeys.
One is the emotional/healing path. Detaching; finding indifference; letting go of fear, ego, H (let go or be dragged); discovering your convictions; finding understanding, compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness. Becoming the best version of you.
The other path is the business side of the situation. The bills and kids stuff. With both sons being over 18, custody is not an issue (just major financial expenses like tuition and such). That leaves the finical stuff. Joint expenses and splitting of assets, anywhere from current status to fully financially separate. There is a lot of room along that scale.
While traversing either path, stick to that path. Do not mix business with your healing. Do not mix emotions into your business direction and decisions. Yes, the two paths do/can complement each other, and there will be some overlap. Do effort to keep the delimitation between the two paths as least nebulous as you can.
While on the business side, remain business-like. Facts, logic, reason. Look to those when making plans or decisions. You don’t have a million dollar hidden somewhere (I didn’t either. Nuts!), yet you have something. Do you own your house? No mortgage? Or do you rent? Know your assets. Etc. Speaking with a L will show you your best case and worse case scenarios, and your likely case, if H pushes things all the way to divorce. Information is power! Then, now, you can make forward business-like plans.
Yes, financial protection and security is very important. Especially at our ages, or older. I’m 56. My work life, and opportunities to earn are mostly behind me. Security and protection are much needed/important than when I was in my twenties.
As I mentioned, lots of room along the financial scale. Lots of room to negotiate. The big thing from my experience, you have a much better chance at agreement or the MLCer following through if they feel/think the idea is their’s. Let H lead the way. Takes some finesse sometimes, and in no small part biting one’s tongue. (An example of overlap there. Good for business and your healing. )
I’m a big proponent of leaving the heavy lifting to the spouse who is wanting out. However, ensure you have financial protection and security. If you need it, if it’s lacking - get it!
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
Has anyone made it through an MLC without some serious collateral damage?
MLC is horrible! Absolutely horrible!
There is plenty of damage. And lots of collateral damage. The term Bomb Drop is most apt. However, the damages do not cease after BD. Depending on the MLCer, their running behaviours, their past unrealized unreconciled traumas, pains, and torments there will be more waves of destruction.
So, no. There is always serious damage, both directed and collateral. The big question and focus of the LBS - has anyone healed from such damages?
Unequivocally, yes! People can and do heal.
First and foremost is the LBS. That emotional/healing path. You and the kids and friends and family. All can heal. All can come through this, better than before. Most LBS would not, even if they could, give up their hard-eared gains to not have their situation happen. The journey we were forced upon is that profound. It’s a golden opportunity. Do the inner work. Grow and heal.
Does the MLCer heal? Maybe. Some do. Some run for the rest of their days. Their path, the damages they inflict upon us, is more about them than us. In fact, their destruction of self, that drive and need to relive their youth, to relive all they feel they missed out on, damages them far more than the collateral pain to us from the shrapnel flying around.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
And also - the stages of an MLC - are those for the MLC'er or the LBS?
Remember, it’s a guideline. Everyone is different and individual, therefore their crisis is different and individual. Yet, there are similarities, an almost script they more often than not do follow.
Running/replay is by far the longest of the stages. Their running behaviours and activities are bewildering and quite irrational. Realize the MLCer is driven emotionally. They are simultaneously trying to numb their pain and darkness while trying to feel something. They are consumed by their depression and unrelenting unreleased past and demons.
They become the opposite of who they were. Desperately trying to find happiness and end their pain. And desperate people do desperate things.
The LBS usually gets blamed for the MLCer’s pain. The MLCer doesn’t realize, cannot accept or look towards themselves or their past (yet) as cause. Their hurt/broken mind simply cannot for they would shatter. As such, they blame their spouse, or kids, or dogs - whatever, whomever is close by. The LBS getting the lion’s share of that.
MLCers display a lack of empathy; their empathy chip is broken. A result of their own emotions being cranked to eleven. They have no bandwidth for anyone else’s.
Plenty of less than stellar decisions, behaviours, and life choices occur when one is so consumed. So desperate. So depressed. Emotional decisions lead to regret. So, on top of everything else, the MLCer behaviours and such, deepen their turmoil.
The LBS has stages as well. Basically, following the steps of processing their grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Our situations are multifaceted, and we exist in and experience many stages at the same time. As we heal, as we release our anger and accept, more things are revealed to us. New items starting their own grief process, while others are complete or nearing acceptance.
When starting, detachment is the single best thing one can do. Becoming no longer uncontrollably dragged around by our spouse’s words and/or behaviour. It’s the first major milestone along our journey. A journey made up of many small steps. For me, some were just getting out of bed, or speaking with a lawyer. More and more steps. Slowly they accumulate. And before you realize you are somewhere else.
To that end, it’s good to figure out one’s headings. Those deeply held values, convictions, and beliefs. Strengthen those which serve, craft those which you aspire to, and discard those which no longer serve. Feelings are fleeting, and thoughts flit just as easy, yet beliefs are slow to change. It’s that quality that makes one’s values excellent headings. The shortest way through this quagmire is a straight line. The less one slogs around in circles the better it is.
Anyhow, just some thoughts for you during this raining day here. I had plans to paint some windows. Ha, the rain put a stop to those.
Unfortunately letting go isn't a strategy to gain your H back. It's a part of acceptance. Both of your H as he is. And the marriage as it is.
It is part of the grieving process. Unfortunately if you use it as a tactic - it's manipulation. And manipulation provides short term relief with some long term consequences.
Letting go is very hard. Re-read the detach section on the forum and then ask yourself... how can you detach from your H. How can you move closer to your needs and further away from caring how he responds?
Honesty and 2x4s are always welcomed - sometimes I need that.
Perhaps my updates are doing myself justice. I've been GALing and detaching to the extent I can stomach. I'm getting better but have room to grow. Having been in the dark to MLC and DBing until Feb 2024, I lost a year of valuable insight on how to behave. I've only been at it for 3.5 months and I have room for improvement. And, it doesn't help that I struggle with buying into the strategies.
I struggle, like I've read in other threads with the concept of if I let go, will H miss me or further wander? Laura Doyle podcasts provide tempting solutions which contradict 'going dark' or feedback to 'provide little insight to H's inquiries'. It's not black and white to me which makes my thoughts scramble.
Unfortunately letting go isn't a strategy to gain your H back. It's a part of acceptance. Both of your H as he is. And the marriage as it is.
Is is part of the grieving process. Unfortunately if you use it as a tactic - it's manipulation. And manipulation provides short term relief with some long term consequences.
Letting go very hard. Re-read the detach section on the forum and then ask yourself... how can you detach from your H. How can you move closer to your needs and further away from caring how he responds?
You sound happy and therefore, I'm happy for you. You've defined your path forward and it will be a huge change with opportunity. Glad you're embracing it. You're brave. You have a greater support system to look forward to which I'm sure is motivating. Hope you'll continue to provide updates and feedback on our threads.
Let’s see… at the time I read this on Friday I was planning dinner.
Since I am by myself for a bit…hmmmm. I don’t want to let food in the fridge go to waste so I’ll use leftovers and remnants, no new stuff. The little bit of white rice as a base. I’ll throw in a frypan some of the half an onion, bell pepper before it goes bad, brown mushrooms, celery tops, brown mushrooms, and some butter. I poke around in the spice cabinet and smell the various dried herbs and season when it seems to fit. Just for fun I’ll add some wasabi sea salt from the magnetic container stuck to the outside of the fridge. Protein, Protein. Four frozen meatballs go in the microwave. This counts as remnants since, after trying them, none of the kids will eat this brand. Just for fun a little grated sharp white cheddar. There. Cheddar over meatballs over sautéed veggies, over rice. Yum just for me.
The week before
Alone…I should back up a bit to last Monday though. Some months back W said she wanted to take the children to visit her parents and brother around this time when her nephew graduates high school. I said sure, of course they should see those grandparents. Then I STFU. Not another peep or offer.
Over time it got reduced from 2+ weeks to just a week including travel time. Everyone else involved had various objections and plans. Also, I’ve always been the one to plan and book all the travel. I didn’t ask but gathered from kids remarks that the grandparents helped plan/fund the trip.
W and kids departed for the airport well before dawn last Monday. After Sunday church I got the kids ready and helped them pack. Got them fed before W arrived. Then the menagerie was up to me for the week. Three dogs, two birds, two rabbits, one chicken and assorted D17’s plants.
This means a modified work schedule so I’m not away from the dogs for more than 8 hours. Monday evening I hit the mountain bike trails to work out.
Tuesday evening I went to the brewery to sit and read/write with a local brew and sandwich.
Wednesday evening I did NOTHING!
Thursday and Friday evenings I got my butt in gear to start the next stage of house purging. Both debris of the years that W has never taken care of and W’s stuff seemingly abandoned in place. Treadmill and exercise bike had’t been used in years, out to the garage they go. Furniture bits that are hers alone get stacked in the corner where exercise stuff had been. I had purchased 27 gallon totes to pack a bunch of her clothes in and stack. Pulling down some pictures from walls and shelves. As I go through as separate some obvious ones It hits me how much joy is shown through the years in those pictures. They don’t match claims of long term unhappiness.
I make the aforementioned dinner!
Plans for the weekend 1
Saturday was cleanup day as kids will be back around midnight. But hey, thinking on Mach1’s question… There is a car show today! I abandon cleanup mid-morning and head out to the car show. I eat a burger and start viewing. A 60’s VW camper van in pristine condition! Just like the one my dad had when I was little. It was stolen from him at gunpoint in Mexico. Lots of 60s and 70s big American iron. Exotics….Bently, Rolls Royce, an early Ford GT40, ’83 Lotus Esprit Turbo, NSXs, Nissan GT, and more. Others…Miata stuffed with a 5.0 (those are fun…), Monte Carlo SS (In my dorm at college a guy had one. One day he comes zipping up and parks. FIVE minutes later the law comes racing up with flashing lights…), Shelby Cobra, Bel Aire, Hot Rods galore, Willys Jeeps, and more. It was fun. After three plus hours in 95F+ heat I head home and have a nap. Finish cleanup later.
Kids return and upsets Messaging kids all day as they travel. It looks like ETA is after 1am. I know they will be tired and hungry so I set bread baking in the bread maker to finish just before they arrive. Hot fresh bread! All kids tired and ready for bed. Some upset from D17 when she realizes I had moved some minor pieces around and to the garage. She is the one who likes zero change.
D17, ”DAD! YOU HAVE TO TELL ME WHEN YOU ARE CHANGING ANYTHING!”. A brief discussion intense with her and it will be OK. She is still a little mad and wants to know before I do things though. Fair.
S12 is having a hard time though. Quietly crying in his bed. Intense exposure to W, Grandparents, Uncle, Aunt, Cousin, and now home on top of the mom/dad issue was wrenching change. I sat with him at his bed for a while and talked with him. Validated sadness as legitimate. That I also I also felt sad. I think closer to 3a to sleep.
Up at 7a for dogs. Throw pre-made cinnamon rolls in the oven for kids. Spend the next hours setting up S12’s old computer for D17. Her laptop drive failed the other day and replacement drives I have were too small to restore the backup to. Kids wake slowly. No church today, they are all tired. I go to take a shower and big dog eats one of D17’s suitcase wheels in the 10 minutes I am away. Aaarrggg! That suitcase was a birthday gift to her from W.
I go to tell D17 and promise she may pick a replacement now or in the future. She is upset for a few minutes then, says with a straight face, “Dad, I can’t go get one right now, I’m not even dressed yet!” I start to explain then stop. She got me. Droll humor. Ha!
S12 appears and has tears in his eyes. W is on a video call with him. She looks like she has tears too. S12 hands me the call. W, “G, he needs extra hugs today OK? He is having trouble.” G, “Yes I know and of course I will.” Then I STFU about all the reasons he is feeling this way. Like I would be so dense as not to know. W, ”S12, I’ll come by later OK?” . She hangs up. G, ”S12, just like last night I know you feel sad. It’s ok to feel that way and let the tears out. Then we get ourselves up and go do the good things of the day. The doing of those things will help us feel better. How was the amazing <super cool giant location> you visited?” S12, ”I don’t know dad. I don’t feel like anything is cool or exciting even when it should be.” My heart bleeds.
OK, time to prep D17 and S12 with foods and myself for travel. D19 and I are going to a concert tonight. I just get started when I hear -
D17, [I]”Daaaad, Daaaad, …. Come RIGHT now…. Where are you? Help me Help me Help me”. I have a bad feeling about this. D17, ”Mom’s remaining bunny isn’t moving. Help me. “
She is trembling and barely keeping it together. It turns out like the other bunny that died, W hasn’t been keeping care of it. Poop and pee matted fur. Flea bites everywhere. I give it 50/50 of living through this. D17 and I take it out into the back yard where I gently hose it down while she trims fur off with scissors. What a mess. D19 gets a squeeze bottle to give it water. Food is mashed into a syringe. We put it inside in a clean plastic bin. There was some talk of calling W but D17 shut it down.
D17, “We can’t keep this bunny” G, “D17 you are right. I will tell W she must take the bunny to her place like she said she would.” D17, “NO, I’ll talk to her. If we send it with her the same thing will happen again and I can’t take that. WE have to find it a new home. Dad, It’s better if I tell her”
D17 finding her voice and limits with her mom.
Plans for the weekend 2 - Concert!
Now…off on a three hour drive to the NF concert with D19. I set up with D17 and S12 that we will be back about 2a. On the drive D19 and I talk a bit about home and her siblings. I tell her I’m proud of her for being able to directly tell her mom what she thinks of all this mess. Not what I think of it, what she D19 thinks. We have burgers just outside the arena. While there I was messaging with my best man (the one I reconnected with this last year). He says,
“My son's favorite artist. I've been to 3 NF concerts, myself His songs deal with not being a victim and just staying that way”
Huh. Well isn’t that on theme! I should pay attention…. The concert was great.
On the drive back home, right now, I check the camera records. W had stopped by twice earlier for 5 minutes each. Now at bed time she stopped by again for 40 minutes to walk the dogs then departed. I wonder what S12 thought of the promised stop by.
Now? 1am. One hour to go to get home and typing we travel. D17 and S12 say they are in bed. D19 is driving both ways since my vehicle is “more zoomy and I like it.”. What are my weekend plans for tomorrow? I don’t know. I had car show and concert on my plans and the rest just filled in completely. I’ll sleep on it…zzz
