What can I do differently?

[Pattnee5]

I strongly believe in “ believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.” They become masters at lying. It’s the mask they wear. And because we know the real H and have so much trust in them we believe their words. Just be prepared there may be more to the story than you know. There always is. The truth does come out eventually
I would also suggest you don’t snoop. If you are meant to know something it will unravel and come to light in some way. I didn’t go snooping at all it fell in my lap.
My only other advice is to take the focus completely off him. Focus on you. Forget what he is doing in the world. What he says, where he goes, whether he has dinner or not. Don’t instigate any talks that are heavy let him open up when he’s ready. Just really leave him be. I wished I left my H alone more. I certainly wouldn’t be letting him cake eat too. He seems to be all confused and up and down so common and so similar. Sometimes they don’t have to say a thing and you can just sense and feel the anger. It’s not a matter of deciding to stand or walk right now. You will know in your heart if you want to walk. Right now focus on complete detachment. Drop that rope completely. You can still be the lighthouse and still stand for your marriage that way and still live. It never felt right for me to walk away find another partner etc etc. I still feel H may have it in him to get himself through the tunnel. I’ve done a pretty good job of detaching and just being the lighthouse. How I’ll feel when the ship returns from the crazy MLc I don’t know. What I do know is my life isn’t on hold for while he’s wallowing in his mess his depression his withdrawal, I’m kicking ass at being the best mother there is, building amazing memories and fun times with my kids, friends, family. That’s what it’s about. Drop the rope and live your life. Let’s see if H comes back in your orbit in the future

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Patt is spot on with her advice. Do take the focus off H, and focus on you. Drop that rope or be dragged. Letting go and standing can, and do, happen together. Embrace the gift of time.

I know he is having an EA (didn't understand until today). H admitted to EA in Feb and I told him at one point that he should feel strange after EA and not after me. This made him uncomfortable and such moments have dwindled. H was/is not totally comfortable but I thought I could keep affairs out of the pic this way. Not sure whether to continue or to start some snooping to confirm PA or no PA. Maybe I'll get the internal strength to snoop a bit....as I certainly don't need any shared diseases.

I honestly don't know much about his whereabouts because I would not handle snooping well. Simple stuff would have me spinning and I needed to be talked off my ledge.

Ok. So, H is smitten with someone. Perhaps it remained not physical, perhaps not. I’d not go snooping as it will send you spinning. Besides, how would you truly know.

Affairs are illicit and most do not like the light. Confronting a spouse, demanding to see their phone and such measures of their whereabouts are easily manipulated by these masters of manipulation and lies. They simply get a second phone and take their affair deeper underground.

You only control you. You don’t want to risk sharing a disease. One sure way, no cake eating.

Breaking of trust is a difficult thing to rebuild. H needs to consistently demonstrate positive behaviours. Is he anywhere near that?

If H is in a EA. Chances are it will become a PA. Let it go. Focus on you.

Affairs are a symptom, a mere band-aid. And, unfortunately, they need to run their course. H is broken and chose, was driven to, having a relationship outside of the marriage. Until he feels consequences of his actions, some rock-bottom painful consequences which are not of your doing, he will not change. It is very rare for one to alter their life. Most take the comfortable easy path, until pain forces them to shift headings.

H needs to feel his consequences. Give him to God. While you live your life. You can certainly pray for him, speak with him, and such. However, he has/is fired/firing you as wife, let him feel that. Focus on you, and not be an emotional support for him.

Time and space. Right?

With such, hopefully H someday realizes that “hey, MG hasn’t spoken to me or been around for a while and my life is still all confused and mixed up. I’m still unhappy.” Then with some good fortune, “hmmm, perhaps she’s not the cause. Perhaps, it’s me.” And if he is strong enough, he’ll hopefully start to look inward and start dealing with his demons.

DnJ's comment about potential sexual abuse in his childhood has me thinking and I plan to ask him straight out at some point when the time is right. H has a good memory about his childhood - doesn’t seem to be gapped in years or moments. But, I've not narrowed it out. I know with certainty that his uncle 10 years his senior was abused by a family member's neighbor. Can't help but wonder if H was too and perhaps covered up by family. Unless someone guides me otherwise, I will ask H if he was abused.

I’d not do that.

Oh my, so much pressure!

H is likely to explode and since he likely cannot/will not accept the roots of his trauma, he will lash out at you.

Realize whatever long ago trauma(s) there are/were, H buried them for self preservation. He had to! And he has to uncover said trauma(s) in his time and on his timeline; which is so very slow. You cannot speed it up. Anything you do will likely delay his progress or worse derail it.

You know there was previous abuse in the family and they covered it up. The family’s actions and behaviours is very likely the root of H’s trauma. He was directly abused or was exposed/heard about stuff and had no one to speak with or report it to.

The most horrible thing one can do to another person, is betrayal. A betrayal of trust, betrayal of faith, runs deep. And those wounds exist for life. They really do. Even for us LBS.

Healing is possible. It takes digging deep into ourselves, doing that inner work, and forgiveness. The wounds can heal. Personally, I love the idea of kintsugi; putting pieces back together with gold. Our scars, golden, an expression of hard-earned strength and beauty.

Some folks do not do their hard work and suffer festering wounds for their entire life. That’s anybody: MLCer, LBS, kids, family, friends, or otherwise.

At this time, H is not ready. His wounds are barely realized (if at all) and far too raw. Remember, you didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him.

However, your wounds, you can definitely work on and heal.


D

[MamaG]

DnJ
Appreciate you weighing in about not asking H. I certainly don’t want to pressure him nor rush him. As I’ve said, sometimes I struggle with translating advice given here into real life scenarios. TY

I wanted to clarify an important detail related to your comment: “ You know there was previous abuse in the family and they covered it up. The family’s actions and behaviours is very likely the root of H’s trauma. He was directly abused or was exposed/heard about stuff and had no one to speak with or report it to.”.
I am aware of the family members abuse, but H is not. While it’s possible some family is also aware in pockets and hid it, I doubt it based on the details and how I learned. I was confided in and he has no idea that this abuse happened. And since I last wrote, I learned, that H was not born yet when the abuse happened by this non-family member. It’s unlikely from my view that this was the source of trauma for my H.

at some point, I will exhaust myself and will no longer try to seek and understanding. Dropping the rope is becoming easier. As I reflect over the last month, I can feel myself getting exhausted and wondering what I’ve gained over the last six months by trying to understand. Sometimes it feels like I’m giving up and perhaps that’s why I keep holding on and trying. But, as you said, I could be a lighthouse and stand for my marriage. I’ll just have to figure out how to do that.

I’m going to give some more thought to both your response and patties. Feeling a bit defeated and exhausted.

[Ready2Change]

I will exhaust myself and will no longer try to seek and understanding...I can feel myself getting exhausted and wondering what I’ve gained over the last six months by trying to understand.

What worked for me was gaining an understanding of human nature in general, not the specifics of my X wife...

[Pattnee5]

Mama I’m sorry you geek so exhausted and drained. I remember that time. My biggest advice around this is you’re exhausted because you’re putting all your energy into H and trying to fix him or figure him out or put the puzzle pieces together. When you give so much energy to the situation you start to drain yourself and lose yourself in the chaos. H is at a time in his life where all his pieces have broken apart and now he is trying to piece himself back together and there is nothing anyone can do to help him.
Step back step right back. You don’t need to give definition to what standing or being the lighthouse looks for you. Let it just happen. You will know what feels right. For me, dropping the rope and turning the focus on me and the kids( because it’s just the 3 of us now while H roams the other side of the globe). We have a happy safe home full of laughter and fun and joy. I never realised how much H bad energy all of last year drained us all. My version of being the lighthouse is he knows where we are when he needs us or if he chooses to one day get himself through the tunnel and return to us. If it’s meant to be it will happen. If he’s meant to stay stuck in crazy MlC land that’s his journey not mine

[MamaG]

I'm caught - Do more of what works....seems to be including him in events and doctor appts, but I'm so anxious to have him hit rock bottom. Not sure how to marry these up. He is a true friend and companion when we're together, especially doctor appts. I have no expectations that I'll get a text for Mother's Day tomorrow (although it would be nice) despite not having heard from him since 5/4. Why 5/4? Well, I've learned that H only reaches out for a doctor appt. and there wasn't any last week. Other than doc appts, the last time he reached out to me out of the blue was at 10:30 pm on Easter Sunday - wanted to know how my day. Of course my response (the next morning) used the 'as if' approach. I told him that it was a great day full of laughs. Told him I missed him and then asked how his was. H said Easter was good but H's night wasn't good. Whether I get a text tomorrow or not, I'm thinking ahead to my surgery on 5/24. Do I remind him of the surgery and ask him to take me to the appt, under the "do what works" approach? Or, do I leave him as he fired me as a wife and not remind him of surgery? I know eventually H will know that I had surgery and wonder why I didn't include him as with other appts.

thoughts? direction?

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Happy Mother’s Day

I hope you get to put your feet up and just soak in a most peaceful and serene day.

D

[DnJ]

Some thoughts for you.

I understand feeling caught and anxious. Being unsure of which way to go and/or what you should do.

Do more of what works....seems to be including him in events and doctor appts, but I'm so anxious to have him hit rock bottom. Not sure how to marry these up.

You do have to marry these together. It’s not your journey, nor your responsibility. It’s up to H to decide when he has hit rock bottom. You cannot speed that up. You cannot force it.

Doing more of works can be a difficult thing to suss out. A solutions journal can help. Although, for a lot of things in a crisis the person’s progress is mostly internal and hidden from the world. It appears like nothing is happening. So, looking from the external, one cannot tell if something is happening or not. It’s quite madding. Best to let go of that rope.

He is a true friend and companion when we're together, especially doctor appts.

Well, I've learned that H only reaches out for a doctor appt.

I want you to consider that statements. Is he really? A true friend. Though thick and thin. Really?

Or is he convenient? Sort of. Helps with the doctor appointments, then ghosts.

What do you think about this: My friends don’t treat me that way.

Do you know how you want your friends to treat you? How you deserved to be treated? Respected?

People will treat you as you allow them to.

[I] used the 'as if' approach. I told him that it was a great day full of laughs. Told him I missed him and then asked how his was.

Act as if. Another useful tool for us. Act as if, installs and reinforces feelings and thoughts, which then become behaviour, our normal.

I’d alter your response for the next times.

I told him that it was a great day full of laughs. Told him I missed him and then asked how his was.

Yes, tell him you had a great day. That’s it. No telling him (or yourself btw) that you miss him. No asking him about his day. Just that you had a great day. Leave him wondering.

You definitely do not want to feed into his ego and his narrative that MamaG misses him and is sitting there waiting on a shelf for him. And don’t do that either! GAL. Act as if, until it becomes your normal.

Do I remind him of the surgery and ask him to take me to the appt, under the "do what works" approach? Or, do I leave him as he fired me as a wife and not remind him of surgery? I know eventually H will know that I had surgery and wonder why I didn't include him as with other appts.

When living in the past, one is depressed. When living in the future, one is anxious. When living in the present, one is calm and at peace.

You are anxious. Living for the what ifs. Trying to do things to positively affect the future.

Focus on the here and now. Live for today. And, doing things to positively affect your present will positively affect your future. It’s about how you focus and place your efforts.

To that end, can you see your fretting about what to do? So what if/when H finds out you went to surgery and didn’t include him. No big deal! Look, he is the dude who moved out and decided that you and he should live apart. Figures he’ll call and converse when it suits him. Bah, you deserve better than that. So, demand it. Through your actions.

H need to feel the loss, before he might change directions. Before he will decide he hit rock bottom. And lots of folks can/will hover just inches above rock bottom, for a long long time. Rock bottom hurts, and people will do just about anything to avoid pain and consequences.

Again, you do not speed up his journey. However, you doing, living, focusing on you and your life has positive benefits towards that end. That’s DB in a nutshell. There is no guarantee it will save your marriage, however it will save you. And in that, gives you your best chance at saving your marriage.

So, if you need help for the doctor appointment, find someone more reliable.

If you want to inform H, maybe: “H, my surgery is coming up on 5/24. I’ll let you know how it goes”. Although, I’d likely inform him after the fact, like on the 25th, if at all.

Don’t play his game. Live and love your life. Your present day.

D

[MamaG]

Thanks for the mother's day wishes - my kids are amazing; family is priceless! Hope everyone enjoyed the weekend.

I did receive a Happy Mother's Day text yesterday morning which I really wanted - 10 hours later, I responded with "TY". Simple but kind. I don't know how H got through yesterday as H's mom has passed and he didn't spend any time with my mom. Admittedly, I care how he faired through the day, but am not going to reach out to ask. My heart broke him all day....and I know (without knowing) that he felt my loss.

Very eye opening to hear your response: Is he really? A true friend. Though thick and thin. Really?

I have let myself believe that he's wonderful as I focus on the 10% of the life he comes around. Wow! TY for stating the obvious that clearly wasn't so obvious. While it made me cry, it also opened my eyes. You're right. H [censored] right now and I've allowed him to come and go as he pleases. Need to give this a lot of thought and thing about how I can demand respect. This stuff is so tough and not intuitive. I am really struggling.

I've heard, "lots of folks can/will hover just inches above rock bottom, for a long long time." but didn't really understand. But, if I apply it to current state, it's very possible that I've actually allowed him to hover by answering to his check-ins and weekly appts/visits. If this is what we mean by that concept, I need to make some adjustments. What other examples would highlight this concept?

Even if I pull appts away, there's still the house he's abandoned and needs carrying for. H is very handy and took care of many tasks and things that broke/stopped working. Things need attention at the house and haven't been tended to - it's been 8 months. Do I just start writing checks for things to be serviced instead of calling him over? To date, I've just asked him to care for this or that on days he took me to appts - no specific calls/texts for house repairs. Assuming, that chapter is over and I don't use him for appts, what do I do about house repairs, etc.? After all, this is still his house too.

[MamaG]

Soooo, as I pull away, I see (as you've pointed out several times) that he is doing a bit of chasing.
Texted 5/4 bc of carpooling to S bday dinner. Radio silence for both of us until his Mother's day wishes on 5/12. I didn't entertain him and merely provided the "TY" response. Heard from a friend that H had a rough weekend and I secretively celebrated with mixed emotions - need him to find rock bottom and miss me while being heartbroken and crying. So as I reach for my phone this morning, there's another text from H that wishes me luck with a medical exam today and to let him know how it turns out. I break down in tears of relief, anger, excitement and confusion.

What do you see from your view? What's going on with H? I sense a little chasing and loneliness which tells me my efforts may be rendering some results. Not popping the champagne yet! Do I respond? If so, what do I say? When do I respond?