Detaching & setting boundaries w/ clingy boomerang

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

I fear that H won't…

Today, I fear the potential/likely…

Fear is an emotion. And like all emotions, it is rises from the non-rational realm.

Fear is an evolved defence strategy reaction. It amps up our adrenaline in preparation for fight or flight. Problem is, modern day. Not many sabre-tooth tigers lurking in the trees waiting to pounce. That crippling fear is modern day problems with prehistoric lizard brain reactions.

Fear is triggered by our imaged future. Not by what is before us. Fear is rooted in imagined unwanted future possibilities.

Once some imagined future comes to pass, it becomes a problem. And very few things we worry, fret, and fear over actually become problems. Anyhow, once something becomes an actual problem it is no longer in the imagined realm. This shifts “it” from non-rational emotional realm to our intellectual realm where we deal with said problem sans emotions, sans fear.

Fear is similar to our non-detachment reactions. Months and months of high alert, and adrenaline. Which is not healthy. Our fears lasting well after the “tiger” has actually gone away. But why?

Reinforcement of that fear emotions. Tying our feeling to something which triggers our fear.

Letting go of fear is similar to finding detachment. Rationalizing and understanding one’s self and reactions really helps cleave the feedback loop and uncouple the trigger.

I fear that H won't respond to me regarding upcoming business items in the new year. There are tax returns (filing jointly provides many benefits, as selfish as that is). There is D's graduation and the car we planned to buy as a gift to her (which basically will be at my expense but the trade-in is in both our names so I'll need his signature). There is a family wedding (his side) that I want to attend but question if I am emotionally prepared for. And more...

Fear is always regarding self. Regarding oneself getting hurt, feeling some manner of pain. Always.

We often say we fear for our children. Yet, no. The fear is truly tied to our feelings, to the hurt we would experience. Certainly we are looking out for our children’s well-being, and with our experience and wisdom can perhaps foresee things they do not or choose not to. Our worry and fear over what might happen to them, is actually worrying about what might happen to us.

Remember, I’m talking about fear. That pervasive force. Those insidious tentacles that bind us, paralyze us. The overwhelming feeling that strips away reason.

The imagined outcomes are usually quite reasonable and rational. Take your example, joint filing of tax; purchase of a car; etc. All rational foreseeable imagined possibilities.

Fear is about possibilities. Not probability. Probability is not a requisite. It doesn’t matter how small a chance, we can fear it. For example, I fear spiders. Just the sight of them. Why? I fear getting bit. That imagined pain. The neurotoxin paralyzing me as digestive enzymes slowing dissolve me alive. It doesn’t matter that I am much much bigger than the wee spider. It doesn’t matter that the spider is ten feet away. I can imagine it jumping or flying or some other irrational action and get to me. Fear is our irrational response to stimulus. Fear reinforces and feedbacks and triggers itself. Rationalize and cleave those avenues of feedback.

Fear is normal. A perfectly normal response. The emotional understanding in this, let it go. Yes, we get triggered by some unexpected surprise stimulus. Have a fear response. Then let it go. Do not let fear rule you. Do not let fear decide for you.

I know that I can't control his reactions. His emotions. His coping tactics. And, as such, I will handle the new year business items as they come.

Absolutely!

H may monster. He might not.

H may hold back his signature. Not file joint taxes. Or not.

Ask yourself this. Imagine this.

So what if he does?

You will find a way. As soon as it were to happen you’d handle it. You’d figure something out. And you’d immediately not have any fear (regarding that particular thing). Even now, imagining, I suspect you feel less fearful. More in the rational “ok, H did that. Now how will I handle the fallout.”

H cannot hurt you. He simply isn’t that powerful. Once you realize that, truly realize that, you become fearless.

Fearless is not reckless. Danger still exists. Harm still exists. (I don’t go around goading spiders to bite me. lol) You just aren’t stuck in that place of worry and uncertainty. You can better exercise the agency you have.

D and I were in a convo where she was venting that she doesn't want to see Dad and is unsure of what she'll do for his birthday. D initiated convo. She also shared that she's mad at S because he was pressuring her into seeing Dad - perhaps breakfast. I admitted in this convo that I am not sending any message/gift. Immediately, D was upset and monstered at me. Wish I hadn't told her. D isn't a friend. D is my daughter who needs me to be a stable parent. The only stable parent for now.

Daughter and son need, and will, find their way. (Don’t fret or fear. And if/when you do, consider why and who it’s truly deeply for. )

Be the strong stable parent. Tell daughter directly, “It’s perfectly ok not to see Dad. Even on his birthday.” You can even promote a discussion of why she doesn’t want to. And some of the benefits and repercussions of her decisions. Gentle steering. Having her back.

Same for son. It’s ok to see Dad. It’s ok for daughter not to.

Your admitting to daughter that you are not sending a gift or message was good. I agree with that. Do not wish you didn’t. Do not live in the shadows around those you care for and love the most. Leading by example, isn’t from the shadows. Stand in the light. Shine.

Daughter got upset. Good. She has plenty of emotions she needs to let out. And you, being the strong stable parent, are going to get it. She cannot blast Dad. She can’t risk losing him. Not yet. In time, she will grow and work through her feelings and fears. In time, she will lash out at Dad. Until then, you will receive it. Realize, it’s a good thing. It feels horrible. Yet, it is a good thing and helps daughter to process.

Believe me, I’ve been there. Four kids. All at different places along their journeys, and myself a mess back then, getting blasted for stuff I didn’t do, stuff I did. Compassion and understanding really gets a work out.

You only mentioned you’re not messaging Dad or getting him a gift. You didn’t tell daughter not to. Her getting mad and upset, likely has nothing to with Dad’s birthday. It’s about coming to terms with Mom and Dad’s relationship and the mess things are in. It’s about the possibility of divorce. Of having divorced parents. Of how daughter will hurt because of that. It’s because she is grieving.

Be Mom. Be fearless. Live in the light. Lead by example. Lead with compassion and understanding.

D

[MamaG]

Last couple weeks have been busy, complicated, emotional, productive, fun, quiet, loud...snowy...and even peaceful at times. I guess I've been GALing.

A new normal...
I'm enjoying my senior dogs. Glands are healed on D1. Both are still happy to see me when I walk through the door. The 's' word visited recently bringing out the puppy energy in Dog1 and bringing out the shivers in Dog2. The 10 pounds doesn't keep him warm even with the Christmas sweater. I picked up some beef heart while at the grocery store and cooked it up for them as a treat this week. They were beyond happy to get some home cooking. I had no interest in sharing their treat. Last week was pumpkin puree. It's the little things that mean so much to them. Something for me to also appreciate - the little things that aren't so little. Simple pleasures.

Did some shoveling and noticed that unlike last year, I wasn't cursing H with each shovelful. Progress on my end.

The dashboard on D's car had some new lights so we had it checked. Because of this, she hitched a right to BF's house the day before Thanksgiving. I was bummed but recognize that traditions will be changing as the years go on. New normal is being defined.

Thanksgiving day looked different, albeit, it was similar to last year since it was shortly after BD2. D celebrated with BF's family, and then came for dessert on Thanksgiving night at my sister's. Niece, mom and I baked for Thanksgiving - missed baking with D as it was generally just the two of us. It was nice...just different. New memories. New laughs. A new normal.

S drove in Thursday morning to watch the parade with me as per tradition. Both kids are into traditions and seem to be holding on. This warms my heart. S then joined H and H's family for dinner before visiting GF.

Yup, I'm feeing my new normal. Someday I may even embrace it....and may even enjoy it to its fullest. If I'm being honest, EMBRACING the new normal will come someday. Likely not this year. I'm ok with this for now.

S, GF, D, BF spent a day decorating the house with me for Christmas. This is tradition. Remember, we do everything together - enmeshment was a thing here. Even though we planned to get right on the decorating so we can be done at 3:00, we sat at the kitchen table laughing and chatting over coffee and donuts for over an hour before we moved us along. Enmeshment comes easy when we enjoy each other like we do. H's departure has changed the frequency of our connection. It's ok. They have lives of their own. I'm living a new normal. Defining a new normal. My life.

All of us decorated with Christmas music in the background. I loved every moment. We cursed the tree and the nightmare it is to put it together (as we do every year and laugh about it). We agreed to toss the tree in Jan and start with a new one next year....perhaps even getting a fresh tree for the first time. Yes, we still made the 3:00 target and ordered Chinese food! S and GF stayed the night and S and I enjoyed coffee the next morning. Sleepyhead GF slept in before they headed to breakfast with H the next morning to celebrate H's bday. I learned afterwards as they didn't know how I'd feel about telling me, that the 4 of them went to breakfast with H. D was so nervous about seeing H for the first time since June. My heart still aches for my kids and their new normal.

Both S and D wished H a happy bday on his day. S called. They talked for a bit and S offered to take him out but H said, 'I'm just going to stay in tonight.' Not sure I believe H did nothing but I'm not asking for confirmation.

Alternatively, after acknowledging D's text, D asked H what he was doing for his bday to extend an olive branch of her own. And, she's been missing dad. She always felt like his little girl until she didn't. She was disappointed with no response. Sigh. I know I can do nothing here but pray.

Kids still believe in Santa. HA! Aren't they funny?! They put their lists together and send them to 'Santa'. And, I've been shopping up a storm. Dog1 has been doing some barking - lots of protecting with each delivery.

Not completely sure what Christmas celebration plans look like for D and S just yet. We talked a bit but plans aren't solidified. Let's see how this new normal will look.

D finishes university semester very soon but has already informed me that she's staying at her apartment and doesn't expect to come home for the entire month break. sigh....but surely hope that I'll see her more than I do through the semester. Sadly, coming home doesn't have the same nostalgia that it once had for her. She's feeling some feelings and the holidays are bringing them out more. She's been sharing less with me. Possibly more with BF.

D didn't wish dad a Happy Thanksgiving and didn't see him all day. Late at night, H sent D a text to wish her a Happy Thanksgiving. Seemed to her that he was waiting her out. Like a child, seeing how far away she has removed herself from him. She was less than pleased. I'm staying out of it.

I'm standing; holding onto hope and living my life. Embracing the new normal. Realizing the impacts of fear. I count my blessings every day. One foot in front of the other. One day at a time. Getting closer to consistently loving life. I'll get there.

I've read through my own 2 threads. Caught up on recommended threads to read. Allowed for emotions to run their course. Dedicated time to thinking about what's happened and happening - the why, when, how, who and even the fear - and I'm making attempts to rationalize my thoughts. Some thoughts clear faster than others. I'll get there.

Feelings flit - true. Simple smiling actions and frowning actions control more than realized. Mind controls. Thoughts are something I can control.

I'm taking care of me. Finding me.

Kids are adults and me worrying about them still comes natural.

I now question whether I've forgiven H like I tell myself that I have. Or, am I still going through anger and forcing the forgiveness (mentally) to save the marriage?

Having no contact allows me to not give H and OW oxygen. Thinking through how to be angry, release anger while not thinking about H/them...to get to forgiveness. I feel anger when they slip into my thoughts. Otherwise, I'm not angry.

As for H, he never responded to my request to celebrate my bday in early Nov. None of you are surprised. And, of course I don't want him to celebrate me because I asked. As recommended here, I didn't acknowledge his birthday and didn't message him for Thanksgiving either. I'm following direction from my friends here. Hard as it may be. I will say that it's not as counterintuitive as it once was. Some of the direction makes more sense. Perhaps my thoughts are clearing and common sense is returning.

The day after Thanksgiving:
H: How was your thanksgiving?
M: I had a great day

H heart emoji'd my message and that was the end of our conversation. I didn't engage. Space is all his and plenty of it.

Last year, as H was still living at home, I offered to go to the cemetery with him to visit his mom on her bday (this week). H declined and it seemed like he didn't want to acknowledge the day (true avoidant style). Instead he shoveled rocks to fill rockbeds around the house. While MLC was not a topic I was familiar with, let's just say that today I call the shoveling of rocks a replay activity. This year, I didn't send H any text/call for mom's bday either. Another day without observance from me.

In a few days, it'll be exactly a year in which H moved to live down the road on his own. I won't text or call to wish him a happy anniversary for this day either. I'm laughing through this comment - progress it is. It still feels surreal but it is my new normal. For now. As I still hope.

I have a cancer follow-up later this month. Don't worry. I won't be asking H to take me. I got this.

I knew it would be hard to get through Nov and Dec. I'm 1/2 way through and happy to report that I am surviving. Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed moments. Many moments. It's hard nonetheless to even fully enjoy the good moments. There seems to always be a memory of H that I acknowledge and find myself getting through. Tough months that I am and will get through.

One more week of work and I'm off for the year. Surprisingly, I was able to use up every PTO day and didn't give time back. I created a 'honey-do' list for myself to stay busy and productive. It may take the rest of the year to really accomplish it, but I'm well underway. One task is to replace the water heater. I've been getting quotes and hope to make a decision soon. Ordered several new faucets to replace as I learned that sediment from the water heater has been my issue all along. Not the well. It's the water heater. Clearing the screens isn't cutting it so new faucets it is! After getting the new water heater, I'll flush the pipes out of sediment and then replace the faucets.

Brother and I ended up in first place in pitch card league. Playoffs are next week but he won't be able to make it so I'll be playing with a friend of his instead. Can't complain since we set out to have fun and are now looking at a decent payout. Bonus!

New job hasn't been as quiet as I suspected. I've made some impressions and gotten recognition which feels good. Let's see if quieter is around the corner. Enjoying the job nonetheless. New people. New role.

I suspect I'll be asked to start a new thread soon. If I was starting one today, I'd title it, "A new normal." Maybe Accepting is the better title.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

I had no interest in sharing their treat.

lol.

Mmmm. Beef Heart.

I’ve always wanted to try beef heart. I do love chicken and turkey heart, so I figure beef heart would be pretty good as well.

They don’t have heart at my local store. Big surprise, right? Anyhow, they did have liver. I’d not had liver since I was a kid and my Mom made me eat it. People grow up, tastes change, and mature. So, I gave it a whirl. I tried it two ways, fried and barbecued. Yuck! Nope! It’s just like I remembered.

Dogs sure liked it though.


I do understand the new normal. The accepting. And how it feels a bit surreal.

If I may be so bold. I love your post, your new normal. Full of rationalizations, reflection, understanding, compassion, and wisdom.

You are doing so very well! Rather inspiring.

D

[RegretfulLA]

Hi Mama,
"New normal" is something I learned in my own cancer journey (18 years ago!). Things change - but it's ok. It's not what we expected, but it's ok - different, that's all. My boss always says "All change is good change" - well, I can't really agree with her there - but I think she means that with changes come opportunities.

Good for you for detaching. It brings peace. Yes, there's still anger, and resentment, and sadness, but I have found that as I start to detach, I can compartmentalize those feelings a little more. H feels remote and distant and almost not like a real person any more. It's weird. But I feel better.

When H moved out and then my kids went off to college, it was so jarring. I hadn't lived on my own since 1998! But now, I'm used to it! And I like it. It's my new normal. I think every day is going to get easier for you as you adjust to your new normal. And it's really healthy for you to understand and embrace that.

Wishing you continued peace and strength through the holidays.

[MamaG]

I continue to reflect, ponder, heal, build confidence and GALing through December.

Fear is similar to our non-detachment reactions. Months and months of high alert, and adrenaline. Which is not healthy. Our fears lasting well after the “tiger” has actually gone away. But why?

Fear is about possibilities. Not probability. Probability is not a requisite. It doesn’t matter how small a chance, we can fear it.

H cannot hurt you. He simply isn’t that powerful. Once you realize that, truly realize that, you become fearless.

You will find a way. As soon as it were to happen you’d handle it. You’d figure something out. And you’d immediately not have any fear (regarding that particular thing).

I still read these (and other) quotes on my thread and sit on them. So much truth. So little realization until now. Thank you! I've realized and believe these things and sometimes scratch my head as to why I've been so fearful...and didn't even realize it was fear that was holding me down. It's been liberating and the world feels less heavy. To feel like I can make logical decisions for myself and not concern myself with consequences. I just love it.

Yup, I'm feeing my new normal. Someday I may even embrace it....and may even enjoy it to its fullest. If I'm being honest, EMBRACING the new normal will come someday. Likely not this year. I'm ok with this for now.

I do understand the new normal. The accepting. And how it feels a bit surreal.

If I may be so bold. I love your post, your new normal. Full of rationalizations, reflection, understanding, compassion, and wisdom.

"New normal" is something I learned in my own cancer journey (18 years ago!). Things change - but it's ok. It's not what we expected, but it's ok - different, that's all. My boss always says "All change is good change" - well, I can't really agree with her there - but I think she means that with changes come opportunities.

And as a result of not being concerned with consequences and an appreciation for what fear is about, I'm embracing my new normal quicker than expected. Afterall, it isn't 2025 yet, is it?! I'm feeling my confidence return. I believe and know (proven) that I don't need H. Turning my back on H wasn't easy but has been rewarding. And, he's seeing it. Feeling it.

I've heard 'new normal' several times over the last month but initial credits go to RegretfulLA. You were the first to share that term on my thread and I embraced it.

You are doing so very well! Rather inspiring.

Thank you!! I'm a completely different person that the person who joined this site earlier this year. It's been a ride, a rewarding and challenging ride.

As an update, there was another business item that I needed H to complete (his signature) and so I texted last Wed (a week ago as today is Tuesday) to ask if H wanted me to complete the form as I did last year. Several hours later he responded. We'll refer to Wed as Day1 and count forward.

Day 1:
H: Yes I can come by on Saturday after work to sign.
H: Sorry for the late response. It was not a very good day at work.
M: Sorry you had a bad day. I am here if you ever need to talk. I will leave the paperwork in the mailbox on Sat afternoon. TY

Day 6:
M: Can you stop by after work to sign that form today?
H: Yes I might be able to sorry working a lot.
M: I will leave it in the mailbox so that you can swing through quickly. Thanks.
H: (at end of day) Not going to make it tonight. Long tough day. I'll stop over tomorrow morning before work.

(Up until now, I wondered if he was looking for an invite to come inside but seeing as he's offered to come in the morning, ruled that out in the moment. Still, didn't change my tune.)

M@ 11pm: Thanks for offering to come tomorrow morning. I'm sorry to hear you had a long, tough day - hopefully tomorrow's a bit easier for you. I'll leave the papers in the mailbox, so you can sign them. I appreciate it.


Day 7 (today):
H@ 8:30: I'll be over after work.
H@ 9:30: Today is gonna be a better day. (H seems to want to engage. hmmm)
M@ 10: Good for you.
H@ 10:15: Tired so tired.
M@ 11:30: 'tis the season! [censored] nonetheless. At least the weather is cooperating for you today.
H@ 1: Yippee and sends a gif of something he shattered.
M@ 1:30: Oh boy!! Does that maean you're not able to continue until you get a new one?
H@ 2:30: They had to bring one out for me.
H@ 6:15: Are you home
M: Leaving shortly. Maybe 45
H: Be there in 5
M: I left it in mailbox to make it easier for you though. Do you wanna come in?
H: I was going to
M: That's fine. Just grab it from the mailbox.
H: OK

H spends a week not coming to sign...the whole time, I wondered if H simply forgot or what was going on. Didn't fret and carried on with GALing. Today, H really engages and I entertained as curiosity got the better of me. Why is H is entertaining today and has been avoiding the mailbox all week? I convince myself that there's no harm in responding to his texts. I have no expectations and have provided ample oppty to avoid me. Still, H clearly wants to venture inside the house. With uncertainty of whether to allow for an indoor visit, I allowed it as I have nothing to hide. Better yet, the house looks great and is well kept without his assistance.

H certainly looked around. Noticed lots of change and made some comments. H's eyes confirmed that our family photos were still on the wall. And quickly looked at my ring finger. (Yes, I happen to notice that he was still wearing his band too. UGH)

I like your nails.
The house looks nice. It's nicely decorated.
I like this wine bottle holder. (waited for me to tell him where I got it or from whom. I didn't offer info.) You've been drinking wine? I told him, 'no, but my company has good taste in wine.' We proceeded to talk about wine a bit.

Hmm...compliments are nice but I certainly know better and immediately wonder what's up.

H: is there anything on the kids lists that you didn't get for Christmas?
M: I got it all.
H: ok (face fell)

H: do you have any mail addressed to me?
M: Yes, about 6 months worth.
H: do you know if my license came?
M: Oh, is that why you're here?
H: No.
M: I don't look at what comes in for you. If it's addressed to you, I place it in the pile downstairs. (Oh his face of complete shock. He provided no words.)

H: Also, do you have my passport?
M: Oh, is that why you're here?
H: No.
M: Yes I have it, why? Going somewhere?
H: Yes going with man T on a sailing trip next month and need it.
M: OH. (man T is someone H didn't really enjoy and happens to be single and close with OW. I made no further comment.)

H clearly saw that I didn't look forward to his visit and that I was skeptical about his visit. Not sure if I should've been so openly inquisitive, but he certainly knows that I'm not expecting much from him.

There is a large amount of cash on the table and I offered info.
M: Getting a new water heater.
H: why?
I provide an explanation and H corrects me. H insists that it's the well creating the problems....we know I've been down this path already but I just stare back at him with no words.

H: That's fine but I'm telling you that you have lots of life left on the water heater. I'll come Saturday to change the water filter. I guarantee you that it's that. He walks into the space with the well to check things out.
H: Mind if I look at the water heater?
M: No and quickly walk ahead of him. I nearly ran him over and quickly moved the suitcases out of the weigh, ripping off the flight tag. While I have nothing to hide, I will remain mysterious. Believe me, he noticed.
H: What's this?
M: My friend changed the gauge bc it wasn't reading PSIs correctly.
H: Oh his face fell again and the curiosity is peaking and how things are just simply moving along without him.
M: Talked him though a bunch of the water issues I've experienced through the months and had my friend fix. I often said, "He fixed...." Let him be curious. I'll be mysterious.
H: When your friend came to fix it, did he check the water filter?
M: Yes.
H: I'll come by Saturday and change the filter.

I'm really entertaining him now and looking for more reasons to mention that 'He' looked at this and fixed it and fixed that and this too. Hopefully, I didn't take it too far but I was perfectly comfortable letting him think that I've moved on and have guy friends at the house. (For the record, it was my guy friend, aka BIL. lol)

Mom is now in the driveway as she and I had plans to pick up the water heater. I didn't tell him those were my plans when I said that I only had 45 minutes. I made it a point to ask my mom to leave before he saw who she was and she pulled away. He didn't get a chance to see who was picking me up but it certainly confirmed that I was looking spectacular and sexy (if I must say so myself) for someone.

H: Ok, I'll come by on Saturday. 10?
M: I'm sure I'm up before you so that works.
H: I was up before you today. 5 am for me.
M: I pondered and confirmed that it was about 5 for me too. And, then corrected myself and said, 'actually, it was later today because I was out late last night.' (card night and we won!)
H: Oh. See you Saturday.

One task is to replace the water heater. I've been getting quotes and hope to make a decision soon. Ordered several new faucets to replace as I learned that sediment from the water heater has been my issue all along. Not the well. It's the water heater. Clearing the screens isn't cutting it so new faucets it is! After getting the new water heater, I'll flush the pipes out of sediment and then replace the faucets.

We'll see if this will be the case or not. Saturday may or may not happen but I certainly know that I'm not holding my breath.

I'm still not sure if H manipulated me into getting what he really needed from me? If H is following through on wanting to talk more? A bit of both? Did he cycle to me and will run just as quickly?

Dogs sure liked it though.

Dogs love liver and heart here too. Funny that you gave it a try only to remember the yuck it tastes like.

Wishing you continued peace and strength through the holidays.

Right back atcha!! Embrace the new normal and enjoy the next couple of holidays. May 2025 bring peace, health and strength for al of us!

[MamaG]

Also found this interesting and it hurt

D friend learned over Thanksgiving that her parents have been divorced for two years. She’s been away at school and had no idea, but now that her dad moved out, it was quite obvious. My D has been a support to her friend. D learned that the friends’s mom and dad have been hanging out and being cordial. This immediately made my daughter question why I can’t be nice to H. D pointed out that many parents remain friends after divorcing.

I know that H and I remaining friends for the kids would be a dream for the kids, but I am not up for that. Clearly!

In response, I reminded D that I tried to be Dad’s friend and it landed me where I am now. I’m not doing that anymore. I will either be dad’s wife or the mother of his children.

She was visibly upset, but dropped the topic. I hope she’s healing as she vents and shares.

I then reminded her that divorce is horrible and comes with a lot of collateral damage. I then listed several examples of collateral damage that seemed to resonate for her. And now I found her to be confused because she wants what her friend has but is continuing to feel the impacts of divorce on family.

[DnJ]

Good Morning MG

Wow! H had six months of mail. It’s pretty likely there is stuff within that stack that H should have been taking care of. Oh well, more lessons/consequences for him about shirking responsibilities.

You are correct, divorce is horrible and produces lots of collateral damages. Methinks daughter’s friend likely doesn’t quite have a firm grasp of the health (or hidden truth) of Mom and Dad’s relationship. It was two years before she even realize they were divorced. Clearly, her parents were not, and likely are not, being forthcoming with her (or themselves).

I know that H and I remaining friends for the kids would be a dream for the kids, but I am not up for that. Clearly!

I’m with you.

I can be friendly, but my ex and I aren’t friends. My friends don’t treat me that way.

I found [daughter] to be confused because she wants what her friend has but is continuing to feel the impacts of divorce on family.

I believe it best to follow the truth. There is age appropriate “playing nice” for the children, and age appropriate not living in a dream world. Daughter will heal better and fuller with truth. And seeing the hard harsh damages of divorce may solidify why/how sacred marriage and vows are, and are meant to be.

Gently steer. Let her vent. She is healing.

D

[MamaG]

I've played yesterday over and over in my head a couple times.

Much like what happened in October, I reached out for a business need and we ended up with a couple of interactions to follow. In Oct it was breakfast and a hike. This time, a stop at the house and an offer to return to fix things in a few days. Attempts to reconnect?

H pulled right into the garage. Walked in. Whistled for Dog1 and came right on up to me. He stared into my eyes as he's been doing, uttered a soft 'hi' and smiled. If you remember, he did this in Oct at breakfast and I told him I was nervous and didn't know if I could stay. This time I just looked away.

Only for a couple months after BD2 did he avoid eye contact. This isn't typical MLC behavior, is it? If guilt/shame is what usually keeps MLCers from eye contact and we agreed that in Oct that his comment about 'feeling judged less' didn't seem like it carried guilt/shame, could H have done more reflecting and inner work that I realize?

Upon arriving H immediately took care of the business request so his delays in coming to take care of the business item weren't about having reservations on resolving the business item....which I considered.
And, then he lingered. It was a little awkward and so I asked if he wanted anything. He clarified, 'like what? anything to eat?' I confirmed and he said, 'no' and shook his head. For someone who misses my food, H still won't bite (pun intended). And immediately moved into compliments while surfing the house with his eyes.

What is your take on yesterday's interaction and visit?

Why would H ignore the mailbox for a week but send follow-up texts to come by at another day/time? After all, he's soooo busy. Do you think he was looking for an invite to come inside by avoiding the mailbox offers?

Is charming monster manipulating me into getting what he needed from the house while taking care of business item? But, if that's the case, why would he voluntarily offer to come Saturday and fix something?

Does H need more items? I'm not prepared to relive the summer months texts about coming to get things while I was in a 'no contact' period. If so, my voiced boundary sounds something like this:

I'm glad you came to take care of X task. When you come by and also take some things from the home, it is disrespectful. When you come to take care of business matters and also plan to get some of your belongings, we'll plan for a quick visit to pick everything up on another day. I'd like to get this all wrapped up in one go, so please lmk when we can get this resolved. (Glad we can fit one more boundary on this thread.)

What about compliments thrown my way? nails...house...bottle holder... More of the charming monster? Attempts to reconnect?

He really acknowledged the dogs, even holding Dog2 in his arms and talking in a baby voice to both of them, like he used to do. It wasn't time travel crisis behavior. This is how H used to walk in after work and greet them.

Also, is he trying to keep my guy friend from fixing 'his' house by offering to come over the weekend? Territorial, perhaps? H's love language was often offered through acts of service. Could he be reverting back? (I'm not celebrating nor do I think he's approaching the end of MLC. Just seeking to understand changes since May when I last saw him and he didn't have much interest in fixing things.)

I also learned that H called D last week. She said it was to ask a question that H couldn't gotten answered with a quick online search. Oddly, it was a call and not a text. (As an aside, she was upset to learn that H had called S before calling her but S didn't answer. D continues to suffer.)

Recognizing that my behaviors don't change, could he be in the beginning stages of attempting to reconnect? Yes, I know that I still wait for his reach outs with no push behaviors and no R talks.

[Valeska19]

Hi Mama,
I just want to acknowledge the hard work you have been doing with detachment. It's hard work and it is a process. It feels like there are daily decisions to be made to drop the rope. Some times we do, some times we don't. The important this is that we keep trying. It gets easier with time.

That being said - I'm still struggling to see why you engage with him so much. I know it doesn't feel like it to you because you don't initiate contact, but when he does - IMHO you linger too long in the conversation.

Why are you making small talk w/ a man who makes no attempt at caring for you? The stuff he offers to do is not motivated to help you, the are guilty relieve tactics or even possible an attempt for you to not gain your independence. If he offers anything... politely say no thank you.

Why do you tolerate him not taking care of business stuff? Stop that. That's not how it would be if he wasn't your H.

Why do you allow him to cancel and re-schedule coming over? This is disrespectful and honestly gives him control of your life. Don't just say you are busy - be busy.

Also FYI - the reason he can reschedule all the time is because NOTHING is that important for him to get. All of this stuff could be fixed. He could put a change of address at the post office. He could get get a new passport.

This is not being a jerk. This is what happens when someone decides to END a relationship.

Who cares if he is uncomfortable or sad or busy or whatever. It's not that there isn't compassion... but he CHOSE this. He CONTINUES to choose this. Do whatever you can to allow him to hit bottom.

What is your take on yesterday's interaction and visit?

Why would H ignore the mailbox for a week but send follow-up texts to come by at another day/time? After all, he's soooo busy. Do you think he was looking for an invite to come inside by avoiding the mailbox offers?

Is charming monster manipulating me into getting what he needed from the house while taking care of business item? But, if that's the case, why would he voluntarily offer to come Saturday and fix something?

Does H need more items? I'm not prepared to relive the summer months texts about coming to get things while I was in a 'no contact' period. If so, my voiced boundary sounds something like this:

I'm glad you came to take care of X task. When you come by and also take some things from the home, it is disrespectful. When you come to take care of business matters and also plan to get some of your belongings, we'll plan for a quick visit to pick everything up on another day. I'd like to get this all wrapped up in one go, so please lmk when we can get this resolved. (Glad we can fit one more boundary on this thread.)

What about compliments thrown my way? nails...house...bottle holder... More of the charming monster? Attempts to reconnect?

He really acknowledged the dogs, even holding Dog2 in his arms and talking in a baby voice to both of them, like he used to do. It wasn't time travel crisis behavior. This is how H used to walk in after work and greet them.

Also, is he trying to keep my guy friend from fixing 'his' house by offering to come over the weekend? Territorial, perhaps? H's love language was often offered through acts of service. Could he be reverting back? (I'm not celebrating nor do I think he's approaching the end of MLC. Just seeking to understand changes since May when I last saw him and he didn't have much interest in fixing things.)

I also learned that H called D last week. She said it was to ask a question that H couldn't gotten answered with a quick online search. Oddly, it was a call and not a text. (As an aside, she was upset to learn that H had called S before calling her but S didn't answer. D continues to suffer.)

Recognizing that my behaviors don't change, could he be in the beginning stages of attempting to reconnect? Yes, I know that I still wait for his reach outs with no push behaviors and no R talks.

I personally think this is the thing you need to get a 2x4 for...lol. You are still looking at breadcrumbs as some kind of connection.

They say around here is that if/when your partner recommits - you will have NO DOUBT. This the not the case. H3LL he could be reaching out for all kinds of reasons... that have NOTHING to do with you.

Sure he may miss you - but is that more about what you used to provide for him versus what a great gal he had.

You just never know motive until he makes it clear. Until he does - assume they are selfishly motivated. Sure you can be polite and friendly... but as DNJ says - there's a difference w/ friends. Friends don't treat you that way... and sure as sh!t neither should a spouse!

Keep your life private. Keep your conversations short. and treat him like a stranger at the grocery store who may or may not be trying to steal your wallet.

I know it's scary to let go. Do it anyway. Again - it's the most loving thing you can do for him, but more importantly... yourself.

[MamaG]

Valeska: thanks for stopping by. You know I appreciate your compliments, comments and even the 2x4s. It's not always easy to see what you point out. I don't get offended when you point out what you see. I don't always see what you see.

That being said - I'm still struggling to see why you engage with him so much. I know it doesn't feel like it to you because you don't initiate contact, but when he does - IMHO you linger too long in the conversation.

Your comments reinforce that he's using charming monster to manipulate me. You call it breadcrumbs. As that what you're saying? I trust that I'll know if H is trying and I do see some effort. Some change in his behavior since last year. Still, it's not true and consistent effort to call it 'trying'. I'm finding that H takes advantage of my reach outs for business stuff. He's being opportunistic. In his mind, H isn't reaching out; I am. I need a signature and bam, he brings along his list of needs, but is subtle about approaching his requests. My way of telling him that I'm catching on was to ask on a couple occasions, "Is that why you're here?". My intuition knew something was off. Now I need a boundary.

He could easily have signed the paperwork and left it in the mailbox. I should've seen that coming. I know better.

Also FYI - the reason he can reschedule all the time is because NOTHING is that important for him to get. All of this stuff could be fixed. He could put a change of address at the post office. He could get get a new passport.

I'm not concerned with possible late bills or others that may have piled up at the house. That's his problem for sure. It's more that I need a barrier for his opportunistic approaches. And, I need to be better at sniffing it out.

Who cares if he is uncomfortable or sad or busy or whatever. It's not that there isn't compassion... but he CHOSE this. He CONTINUES to choose this. Do whatever you can to allow him to hit bottom.

I desire rock bottom, as you know. I'm not overly concerned with his problems. Are you saying that I shouldn't have validated at all? Kept texts to business task topic?

I personally think this is the thing you need to get a 2x4 for...lol. You are still looking at breadcrumbs as some kind of connection.

They say around here is that if/when your partner recommits - you will have NO DOUBT. This the not the case. H3LL he could be reaching out for all kinds of reasons... that have NOTHING to do with you.

I see him needing a few items before his Jan trip, including a suitcase and his clothing. That's why I was looking for feedback on the drafted boundary. Yes, I'm still working on articulating and delivering boundaries.